One Piece Power Level Discussion Thread

[goldb]

Ground Rules for the Power Level Discussion Thread
​

As always, please follow the guidelines set by the Forum Rules that apply across the board.

It's important that discussions from a current chapter are spoiler tagged until 24h have passed from an english release.

• For the sake of constructive discussion, where and when possible please quote/ source any information you provide. Particularly when it comes to conversations carried over from other threads.
• Avoid passive agressive posts, sly remarks or baiting/trolling. You can certainly have fun or disagree without it being at someone's expense.
• Only use anime examples that are canon and as means to provide clarity to pages in the manga. Any other anime material is otherwise non-canon and should only be referenced if it can be proved that the mangaka had approved it.
• We will strive to avoid repetitive discussions and any extensive battle topics will be guided to the Davy Back fight to existing threads or new ones can be made there.

As of now these topics are shelved due to repetitiveness or until the manga can present us with material to further discussions:

1. Shanks v Mihawk
2. Hand to hand fighters > Swordsmen
3. Zoro > Luffy
4. Zoro v Sanji
5. Is Smoker a top 30 character?
6. Mihawk's rank within the story
7. Law having CoC currently.
8. Katakuri > Kaido/Luffy/Etc.

If you wish to continue any of these discussion and remove it from the list, you will need to provide manga material as proof. If there's also anything you think we've covered numerous times, let me know and I'll update the list.

This is the only warning there'll be regarding these ground rules, anything no adhering will be removed. So please just check your posts before posting them.

 

[albertwv]

Mihawk didn't present himself as a real threat/ally for either side. He was just there (like most of the other warlords) and both sides had better things to do than gawk over him.

On the other hand, Shanks did pose himself as a threat/obstacle.

The only time they were impressed by Mihawk was when Mihawk stated he wanted to see the distance (in strength) between him and WB. But Jozu stopped his attack like it was nothing. Not even WB was fazed lol. THEN, Marco tells Vista to cover Luffy from Mihawk, if Mihawk is Yonko level, the only one able to stop him would have been WB. but no a YC2 max was able to clash somewhat evenly agaisnt Mihawk and showed no fear and the outcome was a tie, yeah yeah they werent serious at all but still Mihawk shouldve finished Vista in 1-3 hits if he was really Yonko level.

Mihawk was a threat to the WB pirates but not a big threat like the admirals.

Mihawk just does not have the same hype as any of the Yonko or even admirals do.

 

[Lord Traffy Law]

Just remembered that oden like big mum and likely kaido were all natural born monsters
Kids born with abnormal strength and power
( oden flung his wet nurse across the room as an infant . By age two, he could catch rabbits with his bare hands, and at age four, he defeated a bear by throwing a boulder at it)


even ace to a degree

 

[Ellenate]

Wouldn't Luffy always being rubber drastically weaken his striking power? He'd hit way harder if he wasn't rubber.

Luffy can make up for this lack of damage with gatling (hitting multiple times) but it feels like a net loss- when you factor in stamina and haki consumption.

 

[M3J]

@M3J simple because they have been fighting for a while when shanks came he was fresh lol

Blackbeard barely fought too, though

 

[albertwv]

@M3J simple because they have been fighting for a while when shanks came he was fresh lol

He was fresh off beating Kaidos ass. Jk.
Most of the Marines were not injured, it was the WBP who held the highest casualties. The marines were fired up after WBs death.

 

[Fox666]

Wouldn't Luffy always being rubber drastically weaken his striking power? He'd hit way harder if he wasn't rubber.

Luffy can make up for this lack of damage with gatling (hitting multiple times) but it feels like a net loss- when you factor in stamina and haki consumption.

Luffy clearly increased his strength by stretching his arms

However, even his normal punches possess super Human strength, being easily capable of breaking through rocks with his bare hands in East Blue saga

Examples such as how he defeated Bellamy should prove Luffy's regular punches are as strong as they would be without his fruit

 

[roggie]

The only time they were impressed by Mihawk was when Mihawk stated he wanted to see the distance (in strength) between him and WB. But Jozu stopped his attack like it was nothing. Not even WB was fazed lol. THEN, Marco tells Vista to cover Luffy from Mihawk, if Mihawk is Yonko level, the only one able to stop him would have been WB. but no a YC2 max was able to clash somewhat evenly agaisnt Mihawk and showed no fear and the outcome was a tie, yeah yeah they werent serious at all but still Mihawk shouldve finished Vista in 1-3 hits if he was really Yonko level.

Mihawk was a threat to the WB pirates but not a big threat like the admirals.

Mihawk just does not have the same hype as any of the Yonko or even admirals do.

Good point. If Mihawk was that a threat, at least Marco should be taken to engage him.

Still, he is obviously stronger than present Zoro. I think we should concede him a low yonko rank. I believe it's fair. Below yonkos, above YC1

 

[Ellenate]

Luffy clearly increased his strength by stretching his arms

However, even his normal punches possess super Human strength, being easily capable of breaking through rocks with his bare hands in East Blue saga

Examples such as how he defeated Bellamy should prove Luffy's regular punches are as strong as they would be without his fruit

Stretching his arm takes more time than just outright hitting someone... and to compensate that difference in hardness he'd have to stretch a bit. Not to mention that charge up makes his attacks extremely predictable. There's things like snakeman where his arms can bounce off the air to make it less readable but again- time/stamina.

If the math was done, i think he's barely breaking even on his overall damage potential.

 

[Pirate Queen]

So there isn't just one universal hardness of rubber you would have to argue or proof the rubber Luffy is made of isnt as hard as a regular punch.

Because a basic punch from Luffy shatters boulders I doubt the rubber he consists of is weaker than the punch of a normal human. Unless we can find evidence of any amount of rubber bursting a boulder lol

On top of that any force used due to his stretching ability add to that damage. Which has already been noted


And I doubt any moves Luffy uses outside of gears uses up any if at all stamina for someone as inherently strong as Luffy

 

[Ellenate]

So there isn't just one universal hardness of rubber

I'm happy you brought that up.

At multiple point throughout the story, the rubber that makes up luffy has been shown as too weak, to even support his own weight.

So we can assume that its hardness is dependent on his condition and gets progressively worst as the battle prolongs. With regular bones his attacks would be way more consistent and there would be zero effort to maintain their hardness; unlike with his rubber body.

you would have to argue or proof the rubber Luffy is made of isnt as hard as a regular punch.

At no point in the manga has any character ever reacted to hitting luffy as if they had just struck some abnormally hard substance... it's usually the opposite.

On top of that any force used due to his stretching ability add to that damage. Which has already been noted

And i've already noted that the time/effort/predictability that comes with stretching results at best with breaking even.


not to mention how it leaves him wide up. if this manga was remotely realistic, he would've lost one of his arms by now. Which could be an upgrade if he'd replace his missing fist with a metal one.

And I doubt any moves Luffy uses outside of gears uses up any if at all stamina for someone as inherently strong as Luffy

If luffy wants to do the same damage as someone with bone with equal strength. he'd have to 5 head his attacks to make up the difference which would be more stamina (ie. stretching then having to obscure his movements so they aren't predictable and actually land).

 

[roggie]

Are you trying to prove Luffy would be stronger without his DF?

 

[Pirate Queen]

Are you trying to prove Luffy would be stronger without his DF?

--- Double Post Merged, May 25, 2021, Original Post Date: May 25, 2021 ---

You got 2 Luffy's they are exactly the same strength

One has the Gomu Gomu
One has no DF

Which one is stronger?

--- Double Post Merged, May 25, 2021 ---

If luffy wants to do the same damage as someone with bone with equal strength. he'd have to 5 head his attacks to make up the difference which would be more stamina (ie. stretching then having to obscure his movements so they aren't predictable and actually land).

Absolute non sense

Your saying Luffy with the Gomu no Mi would have to hit 5 times to achieve the strength a non Gomu No mi Luffy would use in 1 hit?

You must be joking

 

[Monox D. I-Fly]

Ellenate just forgets about momentum, that's all.

 

[Pirate Queen]

Ellenate just forgets about momentum, that's all.

He mentioned momentum but he thinks it cosumes stamina so somehow it's barely a benefit

 

[Ellenate]

Are you trying to prove Luffy would be stronger without his DF?

No, i'm saying that overall his fruit is lateral move for his damage output. He has to reinvent the wheel just to do damage with the thing.


---

but-

if we're going into fruitless versus fruit luffy in general.

Luffy would've been way stronger had he developed without his fruit. It kind of goes back to what blackbeard said about logais not being use to getting hit. When your fruit allows you to just eat attacks, there's no reason to learn things like future sight to avoid hits.

Kinda how crocodile ended up getting his a** handed to him by a scrub. A fruitless crocodile who had properly developed his haki isn't losing to a alabasta luffy (plot be damned).


@Pirate Queen

if you'd put as much effort into your "counters", as you do the snide comments. you'd be a lot more interesting to talk to...

with that post you're just repeating what i said but adding "no" at the end.

 

[Pirate Queen]

No, i'm saying that overall his fruit is lateral move for his damage output. He has to reinvent the wheel just to do damage with the thing.


---

but-

if we're going into fruitless versus fruit luffy in general.

Luffy would've been way stronger had he developed without his fruit. It kind of goes back to what blackbeard said about logais not being use to getting hit. When your fruit allows you to just eat attacks, there's no reason to learn things like future sight to avoid hits.

Kinda how crocodile ended up getting his a** handed to him by a scrub. A fruitless crocodile who had properly developed his haki isn't losing to a alabasta luffy (plot be damned).


@Pirate Queen

if you'd put as much effort into your "counters", as you do the snide comments. you'd be a lot more interesting to talk to...

with that post you're just repeating what i said but adding "no" at the end.

Why would I have to "counter" arguments as bad as:

Non DF Luffy is stronger than DF Luffy
Or
Haki negates Devil fruits?

Both arguments are nonsense.

When u have a solid take on a discussion I will engage in kind but until then... if I see an obviously bad argument, this is what you get.

Your attempts to down play Luffy recently have just been ridiculous.

 

[LaGOAT]

Blackbeard barely fought too, though

Exactly that would be more of a problem fighting Blackbeard and potential fight shanks too and his crew they would easily lose

@albertwv yes but fighting another yonko crew would have been crazy. The marines might have less casualties (as in relevant characters) but fighting wb crew wasn’t an easy feat took a toll on them

 

[M3J]

Exactly that would be more of a problem fighting Blackbeard and potential fight shanks too and his crew they would easily lose

@albertwv yes but fighting another yonko crew would have been crazy. The marines might have less casualties (as in relevant characters) but fighting wb crew wasn’t an easy feat took a toll on them

wait who are we talking about fighting Blackbeard and potential fight against Shanks?



I kind of get the non-DF Luffy being stronger than DF Luffy, given how bad Luffy was at fighting with his fruit when he was a kid.

 

[albertwv]

Exactly that would be more of a problem fighting Blackbeard and potential fight shanks too and his crew they would easily lose

@albertwv yes but fighting another yonko crew would have been crazy. The marines might have less casualties (as in relevant characters) but fighting wb crew wasn’t an easy feat took a toll on them

Well......we have people saying the Admirals = Yonko, Akainu > All of WB Pirates + Crocodile, so let's do the math.

We have 5 Admiral level (garp and sengoku) versus BBP + WBP + RH Pirates.
We've seen how 1 Yonko can easily take down a YC1 level.
So say Aokiji and Kizaru take on Shanks and the RHP, the admirals would win given Admiral = Shanks, 2 Admirals > Shanks
BBP vs Garp and Sengoku who said they would deal with them so Garp + Sengoku > BBP.

So going by those calculations, the Marines would have taken way more casualties, but hey they wouldve taken 2 Yonko crews, 1 future Yonko
it would have been a win win win for the Marines.
Going by the logic of Admirals = Yonko.

I dont go by that logic.

Also, Non DF Luffy would be weaker than even Sanji. I say this because the Gears are the power ups for Luffy. Base Luffy even with ADV CoA and Future CoO, was able to hurt Kaido yes, but he was overconfident, and he is not as fast as he would be in G2 or G4. Sanji should be as fast as G2. Sanji hard diff Current Base Luffy, also since Luffy would have no DF, no Rubber defense, Sanji's kicks would hurt him more.

Thanks to his DF, he was able to defeat Rob Lucci (gears).

 

[Fox666]

At no point in the manga has any character ever reacted to hitting luffy as if they had just struck some abnormally hard substance... it's usually the opposite.

When an opponent hits Luffy's body, he barely can feel anything

Shouldn't the same be true when Luffy's hits the opponent?

Maybe, if you are trying to be 100% logical the effect would be similar on both way

But the series is not 100% logical

Luffy can casually do this with his feet: