Discussion Yamato’s Gender

Kiki

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boku is neutral.

I used to think boku was for males, but boku is neutral
 
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Neala897

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Yamato, to me, is a 100% valid nakama for Sh
You can tell her gender problem will make 80% of crew discussion... I really hope she doesnt join.
 

Erinyes

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boku is neutral
Thank you ! not only this, but there's a bunch of females in anime /manga refering themselves with "boku" pronoun, Big Mom is one of them :arf Echidna from Re Zero too, I think Erza from Ft do use boku too ( if im not mistaken), sometimes. even Hoshino (D gray man's author).
As for Kaido calling Yamato, a "son" without any context nor indication i do consider it as in HxH, all sons and daughters of Nasubi Hui Guo Rou( Kakin's ruler), being called "princes" regardless of their gender. I do think it might be due to succession thing, and it fits too Versailles no Bara reference as Oscar has been raised as a son. That said im not saying other interpretations are wrong, but each their own. Im sticking to this for now, till we know more about Oda's intentions.

Yamato

Trivia -Yamato character inspiration and its implication in the storytelling​
In Weekly Shonen Jump (WSJ) )#issue 28 in 2019, Oda stated he read Versailles no Bara and Glass no Kamen. Both manga are obvious inspiration for Yamato's character, Oscar François de Jarjailles is the main female lead character in Versailles no Bara, she was raised as a boy to fulfil her family duty to become a guard for Royal family, shes from a noble rank but she will at the end side commoners against nobility and will oppose her own father. She is wearing male attire and she has a man name but she doesnt deny her feminity. The inspiration is obvious, a woman pretending being a man, who struggles against her own family to fight alongside the plebs.​
As for Maya Kitajima in Glass no Kamen, she is training to become actress, she is very talented, and tends to go to extreme training, like literally put herself into the condition of a blind and deaf person to play Helen Keller role, This is important since Yamato is impersonating Oden, she plays his role. And note that she is referring herself as Yamato to Momonosuke, but as Oden to Kaido and his subordonates. As said in previous reviews, the whole arc is built as a kabuki play and has various elements of drama within it, among them characters that play other characters roles ( Kanjuro, for instance ) disguises, masks etc, the other point, is that in early kabuki form, female performers played both men and women roles.​
If Yamato plays Oden's role, it is very likely she will confronts her father and she is eager to, as seen earlier, as her role requires her to, as protector of Mononosuke and the one who makes Odens soul lives on, by impersonating, I'm convinced she will be reproducing or trying to replay his performance against Kaido.​



Oda's comment WSj #28, 2019


Oscar François de Jarjailles in her male attire (Versailles no Bara)


Maya Training as blind and deaf girl to for playing Helen Keller role (Glass no Kamen)​
 

sarutobi_sensei

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You can tell her gender problem will make 80% of crew discussion... I really hope she doesnt join.
No, it really wont. People in this world are creating issues because of Yamato's gender. Yamato assumed the moniker Oden due to admiration. Yamato has not said what gender they identify with. People decided to discuss for whatever reason.

If Yamato decides to identify as a boy or as a girl later on, it's up to Yamato. The rest of the crew will respect the decision. People on the internet however, will not.

Why exactly would a characters gender be an issue?
 

Neala897

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No, it really wont. People in this world are creating issues because of Yamato's gender. Yamato assumed the moniker Oden due to admiration. Yamato has not said what gender they identify with. People decided to discuss for whatever reason.

If Yamato decides to identify as a boy or as a girl later on, it's up to Yamato. The rest of the crew will respect the decision. People on the internet however, will not.

Why exactly would a characters gender be an issue?
I have just told you. Every single strawhat discussion will be at risk becoming talk about Yamato gender. I might be wrong though.
 

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To me the whole thing with yamato still revolves largely around her "being" oden. She identifies as a man because oden was a man. The series does not have any actual references to yamato "being a girl at heart" in the same context as kiku. Pretty much yamato is a lunatic. As far as I can tell if oden had been a giant purple dinosaur that spit acid then that's what yamato would identify as.
 
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Diivil

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As for Kaido calling Yamato, a "son" without any context nor indication i do consider it as in HxH, all sons and daughters of Nasubi Hui Guo Rou( Kakin's ruler), being called "princes" regardless of their gender. I do think it might be due to succession thing
And to further your point, seems it's also because of Kaido's pride as a warrior, as captain of the 100 Beast Pirates, he most likely wanted a son specifically.

*Wanted a son, but the Koi-fish he slept with gave him a daughter.*

He might hate Yamato cosplaying Oden, but what he absolutely respects is that Yamato acts like/wants to be a man, since Oden was a man.

That's why he beats Yamato for the Oden cosplay, but respects the associated gender change, and even forced/conditioned his crew to refer to Yamato as Son/Male.

If Oden was a born a female, and Yamato still wanted to cosplay as female Oden, I'd bet that Yamato would've been in much much worse physical conditions.
 

Fallou

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To be honest, I've kind of ended up adopting the "Yamato's a man mainly because of Oden emulation" viewpoint.
Well, only fools don't change their opinions, as they say.

It doesn't change the fact that there's been quite a lot of dumb ("bOoBies") and problematic comments since Yamato first appeared.

That aside, the Versailles no bara reference and @Erinyes' post convinced me
 

Hannibal Psyche

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Thank you ! not only this, but there's a bunch of females in anime /manga refering themselves with "boku" pronoun, Big Mom is one of them :arf Echidna from Re Zero too, I think Erza from Ft do use boku too ( if im not mistaken), sometimes. even Hoshino (D gray man's author).
As for Kaido calling Yamato, a "son" without any context nor indication i do consider it as in HxH, all sons and daughters of Nasubi Hui Guo Rou( Kakin's ruler), being called "princes" regardless of their gender. I do think it might be due to succession thing, and it fits too Versailles no Bara reference as Oscar has been raised as a son. That said im not saying other interpretations are wrong, but each their own. Im sticking to this for now, till we know more about Oda's intentions.

You've put up some good points such as Oda not realising Oscar was a woman and Yamato references these characters. No one should feel like they can force people to call a character whatsoever.

People want to claim "Boku" is a male pronoun and apparently, it's not. My Japanese is non-existent, so I will be on the fence and be as neutral (no pun intended) as I can. Personally, I am not fussed, I'm all for freedom of expression. I'm against mandates or guilt tripping.

As a Black person, I've had people question whether to refer to me as Black, African or Coloured, either way, I'm not fussed. Whichever you're comfortable with and as long as you're not overtly trying to offend me, I won't be offended nor will I be offended if you're trying to.

Where things are complex, I think first and foremost, we should just regard each other with intention to be respectful. And in light of further and detailed education on the specifics, then we'll make changes accordingly.

A lot of us are not all fully educated on Japanese culture, the language, Oda's intentions and the politics if there's any, I think the safest route is people should focus more on we're not trying to be offensive and should we get educated, then changes will come about as it looks like we're all somewhat knowledged and still uncertain.

Whichever we feel most comfortable with and isn't offensive, I think we can refer to Yamato as he/she without thinking this person has some sort of agenda. As far as I'm concerned, this is the difference between Jinbei or Jimbe or Jimbei, won't get mad if he gets called Jimb as opposed to my preferred variation of his name whichever it is. If we get absolute clarification, awesome, otherwise, I think we should keep it simple and just be respectful is the best approach to this.

Glad you put up your points and at least we have different points to read from and come to conclusions without people being labelled as disrespectful.
 

catagon87

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You've put up some good points such as Oda not realising Oscar was a woman and Yamato references these characters. No one should feel like they can force people to call a character whatsoever.

People want to claim "Boku" is a male pronoun and apparently, it's not. My Japanese is non-existent, so I will be on the fence and be as neutral (no pun intended) as I can. Personally, I am not fussed, I'm all for freedom of expression. I'm against mandates or guilt tripping.
"Boku" was used only jokingly by girls when I was growing up. That was in the last 80's through the 90's, though. Like everywhere else, boku is more acceptable to use now across genders, but you won't catch a highly feminine woman using it. It would imply being a tom-boy type.

As a Black person, I've had people question whether to refer to me as Black, African or Coloured, either way, I'm not fussed. Whichever you're comfortable with and as long as you're not overtly trying to offend me, I won't be offended nor will I be offended if you're trying to.
I have to say being in America, the weirdest people about race are white people. Lol. I've had more caucasian people jump to my defense when I wasn't even slightly offended than I can count. Even a situation where I got a (not even offensive version) of the "what kind of Asian are you?" question at work - they asked "Are you first generation American? Where are your parents from originally?" Someone in that same meeting (no clue who) went to HR at how offensive that was, and the whole thing just felt extremely silly. I guess my point is that in my experience the people who actually run a risk of being mislabeled usually understand their situation and are unbothered, and the people who have a very clear identity (cis-male, cis-female, pure caucasian) are hyper-sensitive and want to avoid offending others at all costs, so they get a little more worked up over it than the "victims" even.

Where things are complex, I think first and foremost, we should just regard each other with intention to be respectful. And in light of further and detailed education on the specifics, then we'll make changes accordingly.

A lot of us are not all fully educated on Japanese culture, the language, Oda's intentions and the politics if there's any, I think the safest route is people should focus more on we're not trying to be offensive and should we get educated, then changes will come about as it looks like we're all somewhat knowledged and still uncertain.
Japanese people are not even educated on Japanese culture. Trust me. If you spent a week in Japan with me ("grew up" in Fukuoka), you'd have a completely different experience than if you spent a week with my cousin (lives in Sapporo). The only cross-regional consistency I feel when I visit is a really heavy need to conform.

Whichever we feel most comfortable with and isn't offensive, I think we can refer to Yamato as he/she without thinking this person has some sort of agenda. As far as I'm concerned, this is the difference between Jinbei or Jimbe or Jimbei, won't get mad if he gets called Jimb as opposed to my preferred variation of his name whichever it is. If we get absolute clarification, awesome, otherwise, I think we should keep it simple and just be respectful is the best approach to this.
I feel like getting offended for an anime character is a new level of woke-ness that I'm just not going to reach. I've seen a few members get upset over misgendering Yamato, and it's sad that we can't even drop a pronoun on this forum without worrying about someone jumping down our throats.
 

Kiki

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hopefully this helps. bookmarked this a long time ago


last line of the boku sub-article, is right. there's many lyrics in japanese songs, sung by female singers, that use boku. for example utada hikaru, nana mizuki (hyuuga hinata's voice actress).

also bonus note: watashi is also neutral. many male politicians, doctors, lecturers, etc use watashi instead of ore. watashi is formal and polite.

I think Erza from Ft do use boku too ( if im not mistaken)
Erza uses watashi. it's just she refers to her enemies as "kisama" instead of "anta", which is rude :lmao
 

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I feel like getting offended for an anime character is a new level of woke-ness that I'm just not going to reach. I've seen a few members get upset over misgendering Yamato, and it's sad that we can't even drop a pronoun on this forum without worrying about someone jumping down our throats.
This pretty much sums it up... for a fictional character, just too much he/she/it/they........ i think its bad to use transphobia in a forum discussing a fictional character and seeing how this thread has shed light further, it seems worse that term even came up..... I consciously use he most of the time cos the official does so, but they could be wrong, or just fearing a woke reaction.
 

catagon87

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This pretty much sums it up... for a fictional character, just too much he/she/it/they........ i think its bad to use transphobia in a forum discussing a fictional character and seeing how this thread has shed light further, it seems worse that term even came up..... I consciously use he most of the time cos the official does so, but they could be wrong, or just fearing a woke reaction.
Japan as a whole could give two F's about wokeness. This is a country where you can legitimately deny service to someone based on their nationality, has whole media outlets centered around making fun of Chinese tourists, and has built sexism, xenophobia, and general racism into their corporate culture. I love Japan, and visiting back home, but Jesus.. I'd never work there (again).

The Viz counterpart is San Francisco based on the other hand...

Honestly I'll probably just click that handy ignore button on anyone woke enough to get upset about Yamato being mislabeled.
 

slavkovski

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One thing that i am grateful is that i come from a country that doesn't use He / She, Her / His
So there is never any debate about this kind of BS just because you call someone in wrong way... LOL

Regarding the topic.. i dont want to think it to much, so i will call Yamato & Kiku a She, because oda draw them like a girl, and Izou as a He, because he doesnt look like a girl at all.. Just like i will call Alluka / Nanika (HXH) as a she, cause she is drawn like a girl..
 

Fox666

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One thing that i am grateful is that i come from a country that doesn't use He / She, Her / His
So there is never any debate about this kind of BS just because you call someone in wrong way... LOL
If someone wants to be offended, they will find a way...
 

Dimitri1220

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It's just a woman who is role playing as someone she looks up to, why are people always trying to find new ways to get offended at everything lmao.
 

hokageji

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Regarding the topic.. i dont want to think it to much, so i will call Yamato & Kiku a She, because oda draw them like a girl, and Izou as a He, because he doesnt look like a girl at all.. Just like i will call Alluka / Nanika (HXH) as a she, cause she is drawn like a girl..
its actually a recurring theme in manga isnt it? I remember confusion about Deidara from Naruto being a woman, some characters with Bleach having a confusion and even HxH, who has tons of them. Back then, translations didn't help clarify and of course, these days its much better.... With Yamato of course, its a conscious choice of creating that confusion.
 

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Funny thing about people complaining about others getting offended is that they're usually the ones who get the most offended at everything.
 

Fox666

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its actually a recurring theme in manga isnt it? I remember confusion about Deidara from Naruto being a woman, some characters with Bleach having a confusion and even HxH, who has tons of them. Back then, translations didn't help clarify and of course, these days its much better.... With Yamato of course, its a conscious choice of creating that confusion.
Deidara has always been a male characters, perhaps some fans got confused by the art style, but that's it

However it's quite common for manga or anime to play with gender.

There are several characters whose gender is left ambiguous, but they are not transgender or anything like that. I.e. Zoe Hange from Attack on Titan
 
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