Back then, the translators would all be fans and they stated Deidara as a girl and thats what i meant when i said its way better these days.... My point is japanese artists are quite free with their art and dont stick to binary representations of their characters to what the rest of the world sees as binary.
I thought Zoe Hange was a female, but never read the manga... the voice seemed female
I am still kinda amazed that yamato, a lunatic stealing some asshole's identity, is the one that stands out in this "debate" but not kiku, an honest to god transgender person who isn't stealing some guy's identity.
I am still kinda amazed that yamato, a lunatic stealing some asshole's identity, is the one that stands out in this "debate" but not kiku, an honest to god transgender person who isn't stealing some guy's identity.
THen you must be daft, mate. We know about Kiku, while we don't know about Yamato because they're stealing someone's identity, so how do we know how to identify them as? It's confusing af because Kiku is a transgender woman, but is Yamato a transgender man, do we use he/him pronouns because they identify as Oden, or do we use "she/her" because they're only male because they identify as Oden, and that if Oden was a woman, Yamato would still go by "she/her/"
I am still kinda amazed that yamato, a lunatic stealing some asshole's identity, is the one that stands out in this "debate" but not kiku, an honest to god transgender person who isn't stealing some guy's identity.
Why would you refer to her with a plural pronoun ? Lets not get crazy here, the character is clearly a female and referring to her in any other way in discussions is just very confusing.
Ok, lets forget about how ridiculous it is to change language to accommodate someone's fantasy World, how can it be not confusing? Even referring to her as "it" would make more sense. Still, I think that referring to her as female based on her appearance makes the most sense.
Ok, lets forget about how ridiculous it is to change language to accommodate someone's fantasy World, how can it be not confusing? Even referring to her as "it" would make more sense. Still, I think that referring to her as female based on her appearance makes the most sense.
Lets forget for a moment that language changes all the time and how ridiculous it would be to freeze it to accomodate someones fantasy world.
That said...
I'm actually still in the camp "she" but at this point will use "they" as it seems the most sensible.
The situation with Yamato is still confusing to me (as opposed to Kiku) as they are referring to themself as Oden and thats the whole point. So in my eyes it is more disrespectful to call this person "the man Yamato" than "the woman Oden". For me both seem wrong. But still, Kaido says "son" and I highly doubt he would respect the Oden impersonation.
I'm actually still expecting Yamato/Oden is dropping the whole Oden persona at the end of the arc but will not be surprised either (or any other) way.
Ok, lets forget about how ridiculous it is to change language to accommodate someone's fantasy World, how can it be not confusing? Even referring to her as "it" would make more sense. Still, I think that referring to her as female based on her appearance makes the most sense.
This response is more ridiculous. When you talk about someone whose gender you don't know, do you say "they" or "it?" Like, the only time I've seen people say "it" when referring to a human is when they're talking about fetuses. It's not confusing to say, "Yamato yada yada, so I think they."
Why would you refer to her with a plural pronoun ? Lets not get crazy here, the character is clearly a female and referring to her in any other way in discussions is just very confusing.
"They" is singular in the case of referring to a third person.
But don't take it from me, take it from the assholes who dictate how you should write using the English language:
Singular they has two uses: specific and generic (“Pronouns”). Specific Use The MLA advises writers to always follow the personal pronouns of individuals they write about. Thus, if a person’s pronoun is they, the following sentences are correct: Jules is writing their research paper on Jane...
style.mla.org
You probably probably use the singular they in conversation without realizing it. It's pretty simple to overlook. Few examples:
Acquaintance: "Hey, sorry I'm running late. I had to help my coworker change their tire!"
You: "Oh, were they able to make it home safely?"
Spouse: "Ugh, the person in front of me at the store just HAD to write a check. Why can't people get with the times?"
You: "Jeez. How old were they?"
If you can think of a better way to refer to a third person whose gender you have no indication of in this language, I'm all ears, but "they" is not only plural.
Lets forget for a moment that language changes all the time and how ridiculous it would be to freeze it to accomodate someones fantasy world.
That said...
I'm actually still in the camp "she" but at this point will use "they" as it seems the most sensible.
The situation with Yamato is still confusing to me (as opposed to Kiku) as they are referring to themself as Oden and thats the whole point. So in my eyes it is more disrespectful to call this person "the man Yamato" than "the woman Oden". For me both seem wrong. But still, Kaido says "son" and I highly doubt he would respect the Oden impersonation.
I'm actually still expecting Yamato/Oden is dropping the whole Oden persona at the end of the arc but will not be surprised either (or any other) way.
This x100.
I'm a native English speaker but if you dropped me off in England in 1400 AD I'd have about as much luck communicating as I would today in Beijing. Actually Beijing would be easier, since some people there have learned modern English, but nobody in 1400 England knew modern English.
Hell, if you dropped me off in the 20s I'd be caught off guard when asked to go "pick up a faggot to drop in the fire", because that's the term for a bundle of sticks from those days, and used frequently in The Lord of the Rings.
Guys, you are really making it more complicated than needed. Yamato is clearly a girl with psychological problems, pretending to be a dude (and was presented as such by Oda). She can identify as whatever she wants but that doesn't mean we have to repeat that fantasy talk, lets stick to the facts. If I told you I identify as your God would you call me that? Perhaps you would start calling me "they" just in case I really am your God?
Guys, you are really making it more complicated than needed. Yamato is clearly a girl with psychological problems, pretending to be a dude (and was presented as such by Oda). She can identify as whatever she wants but that doesn't mean we have to repeat that fantasy talk, lets stick to the facts. If I told you I identify as your God would you call me that? Perhaps you would start calling me "they" just in case I really am your God?
Nobody is telling you that you have to call Yamato "he". You seem to be the one prescribing others call Yamato "she". Someone suggested using "they" when the gender is ambiguous (which it is, in this case. I mean Kaido calls Yamato he, and everyone in the beast pirates refers to Yamato as male, and Yamato refers to Yamato as male despite Yamato having female features.. Not to mention there's a 7-page thread here on it). You followed up by incorrectly stating that "they" is plural-only, and then prescribed that we should all just call Yamato "she".
If anything it seems like you are really confused. Your first comment was about the translators calling Yamato "he", which makes sense because in the context of the chapters Yamato uses male pronouns to describe himself, and many other characters do as well.
Even Luffy, the protagonist, used "そいつ" to refer to Yamato when telling Momo to trust him. This implies Luffy is using the closest Japanese equivalent to "they" to refer to Yamato.
Luffy: Eh?! You said you're his son?!
Yamato: Kozuki Oden was a man, right? Therefor, I'm a man!
(Introduced as Kaido's daughter, self-proclaimed Kozuki Oden)
But I digress. Call Yamato what you want to call Yamato, but don't be a jackass about it. Some people go hyper-SJW on anyone who doesn't use "he" and I find that pretty silly considering it's a fictional character. However, it is weird to be insistent on calling the character in question "she" when Oda has gone to exceptional lengths to avoid doing so within his own manga, going so far as to have our idiot protagonist even using ambiguity in reference to the character in question.
Guys, you are really making it more complicated than needed. Yamato is clearly a girl with psychological problems, pretending to be a dude (and was presented as such by Oda). She can identify as whatever she wants but that doesn't mean we have to repeat that fantasy talk, lets stick to the facts. If I told you I identify as your God would you call me that? Perhaps you would start calling me "they" just in case I really am your God?
Well I wouldn't call you "Jackass" just because I'm suspecting you to be one (just hypothetically). If you wanted to be called "Mygod33" be my guest, change your username and I would stick to it.
Guys, you are really making it more complicated than needed. Yamato is clearly a girl with psychological problems, pretending to be a dude (and was presented as such by Oda). She can identify as whatever she wants but that doesn't mean we have to repeat that fantasy talk, lets stick to the facts. If I told you I identify as your God would you call me that? Perhaps you would start calling me "they" just in case I really am your God?
You're the one who's complicating it by arguing against referring to Yamato with "they/them" pronouns. That's literally the easiest thing you can do, especially when you're not sure of someone's gender.
apastyle.apa.org
style.mla.org
