Fantasy Zoro vs Marco

[AmitDS]

King is stronger than Marco who is close to Big Mom who is as strong as Kaido.

So King in Yonkou leveled? Wow. lmao!

 

[Nie Li]

I don't think they realize that Zoro fighting King means that he's currently, likely, not stronger than Marco so he'll lose to Marco rn. We know Marco is basically confirmed stronger than King & Queen individually and Zoro's going to extreme diff King in the future so...

--- Double Post Merged, Aug 25, 2021, Original Post Date: Aug 25, 2021 ---

Lol you have no evidence of that, In fact, the opposite is closer to the truth. No one believes that Yamato's solo feats against Hybrid Kaido pale in comparison to *checks notes* King & Queen vs Marco. This is just some attempt to make King and thus Zoro stronger than they actually are at present. We see you.

Just like we have no evidence of King being stronger than Yamato, there's no evidence of Marco being stronger individually than King and Queen, and in fact it can easily be argued that there's evidence of the opposite even if you won't agree with it. King & Queen vs Marco wasn't a battle about strength and trying to simplify it to power levels is akin to not having understood the fight.

Zoro "extreme diffing King" is another thing there's no evidence for that you're somehow using as fact. Going by how the strawhats are winning their fights so far, it certainly doesn't look like that will be the case for now.

 

[LadyVados]

So King in Yonkou leveled? Wow. lmao!

I think his fire abilities will probably be Yonko level, based on the hype they have gotten.

His physicals... probably not

--- Double Post Merged, Aug 25, 2021, Original Post Date: Aug 25, 2021 ---

Since you had to make a thread of "Zoro vs Whitebeard" over at WorstGen, i'm not surprised why your confused

Do you stalk me ?

 

[Pirate Queen]

Do you stalk me ?

When everyone was laughing at you for making a thread everyone assumed was a joke thread until you actually started arguing Zoro actually being stronger than Whitebeard.... yeah shit like that reaches my ears.

Even Reddit was laughing at you.

So if you think that's stalking... sure. I'm stalking you. Your trolling is beyond anything these forums have seen before.

 

[AmitDS]

Just like we have no evidence of King being stronger than Yamato, there's no evidence of Marco being stronger individually than King and Queen, and in fact it can easily be argued that there's evidence of the opposite even if you won't agree with it.

Lol actually there's more than enough evidence. How is there evidence that King and Queen are each stronger though? Marco was exhausted fighting both at the same time before he fought King alone and still wasn't defeated as we saw this chapter.

Furthermore Marco is the right hand of WB so he would at least be equal to Kaido's strongest and this is ignoring the databooks saying he's 1 of the strongest WB pirates so much so that Shanks respects him; who fought on equal footing with admirals. And this is outside of Big Mom hyping him in this very arc as someone of such high caliber that an alliance with Luffy & the rest was unbecoming.

Who would actually believe that WB's right hand man is below Kaido's? Narrative wise that would never work.

King & Queen vs Marco wasn't a battle about strength and trying to simplify it to power levels is akin to not having understood the fight.

Okay then you can't say that Marco was proven inferior then or even after vs King, either since Marco was exhausted while facing both as noted by Perospero and Marco himself.

Zoro "extreme diffing King" is another thing there's no evidence for that you're somehow using as fact. Going by how the strawhats are winning their fights so far, it certainly doesn't look like that will be the case for now.

What are you talking about though? Every one of them had extreme diff fights thus far except arguably Jinbei who was hyped as exceptionally strong by the CP0. Franky barely won, Robin needed Brooke's help for Maria's webs, Nami and Usopp were outclassed. Zoro extreme diffing King in the future is a logical conclusion to be drawn given how the story flows while Zoro right now being stronger than Marco has no foundation in canon, at all.

We all knew this was coming though, the minute Zoro was revealed to be fighting King, you guys would start overhyping King beyond all YCs. On brand.

 

[HereNThere]

Marco. Even after Zoro fights King, the fight will still be up in the air because the two will finally be actually comparable.

Once you reach a certain level in this series, things aren't instantly binary, so Zoro's victory over King does not mean he's immediately superior to Marco. Marco is a level where he should be capable of giving most of the top tiers a decent scuffle.

 

[LadyVados]

When everyone was laughing at you for making a thread everyone assumed was a joke thread until you actually started arguing Zoro actually being stronger than Whitebeard.... yeah shit like that reaches my ears.

Even Reddit was laughing at you.

So if you think that's stalking... sure. I'm stalking you. Your trolling is beyond anything these forums have seen before.

So you are stalking me...

OK

good to know

--- Double Post Merged, Aug 26, 2021, Original Post Date: Aug 26, 2021 ---

Marco. Even after Zoro fights King, the fight will still be up in the air because the two will finally be actually comparable.

Once you reach a certain level in this series, things aren't instantly binary, so Zoro's victory over King does not mean he's immediately superior to Marco. Marco is a level where he should be capable of giving most of the top tiers a decent scuffle.

I mean Zoro already disfigured the strongest top tier for life when at like 1% full power and is only going to get stronger but ok...

--- Double Post Merged, Aug 26, 2021 ---

Marco. Even after Zoro fights King, the fight will still be up in the air because the two will finally be actually comparable.

Once you reach a certain level in this series, things aren't instantly binary, so Zoro's victory over King does not mean he's immediately superior to Marco. Marco is a level where he should be capable of giving most of the top tiers a decent scuffle.

Don't say this to @Pirate Queen, she thinks all YC1s are fodders who'd get low diffed by a top tier and will start calling you a Luffy downplayer.

 

[Grandmaster Woro]

It didn't budge him, Your idea of bias = Not fact

And it was Zoro's strongest attack with seemingly CoC behind it. Kaido was more shaken by Red Roc and it wasn't even coated in CoC.

Your salt is sustaining the oceans Woro-kun, well done.

Luffy without CoC in his attack did this to Kaido

Zoro's strongest attack did this to kaido:

Now i am saying Zoro does not yet possess the fire power needed to surpass the damage needed to defeat Marco.

Zoro is by no means weak, but he's not quite there yet. Marco is a smaller target than Kaido for 1, Marco will utilize CoO whereas Kaido just tanks everything like he did with Zoro. His regeneration already makes it a extreme diff for Zoro.

I'll likely change my mind if Zoro learns to coat his attacks in CoC at the end of this current fight. I don't think Marco can tank CoC coated atacks for long. If at all with a stronger attack like "3 billion Worlds"

Calling you out isn't being salty, and it's definitely ironic coming from someone like you.
Knocking down is never relevant against kaido. Just see what luffy did on act 1. He threw kaido across the town and yet kaido just shrugged it off. Your logic fails. Next.

--- Double Post Merged, Aug 26, 2021, Original Post Date: Aug 26, 2021 ---

Isn't Zoro downstairs fighting King while Yamato's still fighting Kaido ALONE? Lol!

This didn't refute my point at all. Read back my post and try again

 

[AmitDS]

Calling you out isn't being salty, and it's definitely ironic coming from someone like you.
Knocking down is never relevant against kaido. Just see what luffy did on act 1. He threw kaido across the town and yet kaido just shrugged it off. Your logic fails. Next.

--- Double Post Merged, Aug 26, 2021, Original Post Date: Aug 26, 2021 ---

This didn't refute my point at all. Read back my post and try again

Well... your original point didn't prove that current Zoro > Marco/Yamato in the first place so... I'm good.

What does him giving Kaido a scar then tapping out have to do with Yamato? Yamato isn't a swordsman and I don't recall Luffy scarring him either and neither have a sword with Oden's presence in it so...

Maybe you should try again?

 

[Pirate Queen]

Calling you out isn't being salty, and it's definitely ironic coming from someone like you.
Knocking down is never relevant against kaido. Just see what luffy did on act 1. He threw kaido across the town and yet kaido just shrugged it off. Your logic fails. Next.

--- Double Post Merged, Aug 26, 2021, Original Post Date: Aug 26, 2021 ---

This didn't refute my point at all. Read back my post and try again

Call me out for... stating facts? Not sure I get your logic.

Did you know if you add potatoes to a meal it removes the salt? Try eating potatoes, homie.

 

[LadyVados]

Kaido was more shaken by Red Roc and it wasn't even coated in CoC.

Your salt is sustaining the oceans Woro-kun, well done.

Luffy without CoC in his attack did this to Kaido

I've told you this before. Injuring Kaido in his human form is not an impressive feat. Even Kiku and Kinemon could do that. The impressive feat is injuring a Kaido who is using his DF which is what gives him his crazy durability.

--- Double Post Merged, Aug 27, 2021, Original Post Date: Aug 27, 2021 ---

I don't recall Luffy scarring him either

You're so close to getting it

neither have a sword with Oden's presence in it so...

If Yamato and Luffy didn't have DFs they'd be weaklings but sure Zoro is the cheat just because he uses a powerful sword....

LMAO

Also how does is it matter whether Zoro is only strong because of his sword ?

He has that sword doesn't he ?

The same Oden's presence will be used against Marco in this fight.

That's like saying Iron Man is weaker than Captain America because he's only strong because of his suit

or Green Lantern is weaker than Aquaman because he is only strong because of his ring.

I don't remember writing Zoro isn't allowed to use Enma in the OP smh

 

[AmitDS]

You're so close to getting it

Still waiting for the proof that current Zoro > current Yamato.

Unlike Oden and Zoro, you can't use scarring to compare Luffy/Yamato to Zoro to denote their power levels in relation to one another.

If Yamato and Luffy didn't have DFs they'd be weaklings but sure Zoro is the cheat just because he uses a powerful sword....

Point is his sword specifically lets him scar Kaido yet it doesn't push him above people like Luffy who haven't scarred him. So saying he scarred Kaido and Yamato did not so he's stronger is just a headcanon. The scar was also inferior to Oden's and Zoro himself lamented that he couldn't even push him down with it so spar us, please. lol

Zoro scarring Kaido wasn't due to him having more powerful attacks than Luffy so the argument that scarring Kaido to a lesser extent than Oden did means he's more than Yamato has no foundation in canon. He may very well be stronger than Yamato but nothing shows it thus far. Yamato is not a swordsman so the lack of scarring means nothing.

Narrative wise, Yamato is clashing with Kaido 1 vs 1 for a longer period of time than anyone except maybe Luffy and Yamato doesn't have a weapon that specifically allows for scarring Kaido which is better treatment that Zoro being part of a team fighting Kaido and then getting sent downstairs when he admitted that his best was not good enough.

LMAO

Also how does is it matter whether Zoro is only strong because of his sword ?

He has that sword doesn't he ?

The same Oden's presence will be used against Marco in this fight.

That's like saying Iron Man is weaker than Captain America because he's only strong because of his suit

or Green Lantern is weaker than Aquaman because he is only strong because of his ring.

I don't remember writing Zoro isn't allowed to use Enma in the OP smh

Lol you're the one not getting it, obviously.


The point is that his sword has the specific characteristics needed to scar Kaido but isn't enough to place him stronger than Luffy who has not scarred Kaido. Therefore using his scarring Kaido to prove he's superior to Yamato rn makes little sense.

And this same sword isn't one shotting King rn so the argument that he'd easily handle Marco who actually has regeneration, with this sword, is laughable.

If Zoro extreme diffs King in the future then the argument that current Zoro > Marco would be laughable (more laughable).

 

[Nie Li]

And this same sword isn't one shotting King rn so the argument that he'd easily handle Marco who actually has regeneration, with this sword, is laughable.

If Zoro extreme diffs King in the future then the argument that current Zoro > Marco would be laughable (more laughable).

When thinking about Zoro vs Marco you acknowledge Marco's regeneration is a special kind of troublesome that goes beyond power or strength.

But you completely ignore that "detail" when considering how did Marco hold King and Queen for so long, which was only thanks to his regeneration. Not to say all of Marco's merits lay on his DF, but most of them do: someone like him, who can literally ignore being attacked because not even haki can "hurt" him, still failed to deal King or Queen significant damage before getting too tired to continue. That it was a 1 vs 2 barely matters when Marco could have focused on dealing damage to both or at least one of them while totally ignoring the attacks... and, in fact, going by the chapter of fighting we did see, it appears that's what he tried, but he completely failed at it.

After Zoro defeats King, which is about to happen, saying that Marco is on his level on anything other than his regeneration will be laughable.

 

[AmitDS]

When thinking about Zoro vs Marco you acknowledge Marco's regeneration is a special kind of troublesome that goes beyond power or strength.

But you completely ignore that "detail" when considering how did Marco hold King and Queen for so long, which was only thanks to his regeneration. Not to say all of Marco's merits lay on his DF, but most of them do: someone like him, who can literally ignore being attacked because not even haki can "hurt" him, still failed to deal King or Queen significant damage before getting too tired to continue. That it was a 1 vs 2 barely matters when Marco could have focused on dealing damage to both or at least one of them while totally ignoring the attacks... and, in fact, going by the chapter of fighting we did see, it appears that's what he tried, but he completely failed at it.

After Zoro defeats King, which is about to happen, saying that Marco is on his level on anything other than his regeneration will be laughable.

The fact that you guys think Marco is inferior to King is where this issue is stemming from. Zoro rn isn't proven to be stronger than King yet since we don't know if he is going to power up to beat King in this fight.

Thus, no one has any reason to believe that Marco who is hyped as admiral leveled (can fight equally with admirals) in databooks, who is WB's right hand and who was exhausted when holding off both King and Queen, is inferior to King or Zoro. It also would make no sense for Whitebeard's top commander to be weaker than Kaido or Big Mom's.

So really there is no evidence confirming that Zoro is stronger than King right now, let alone Marco.

 

[Raven]

Marco wins.

 

[Nie Li]

The fact that you guys think Marco is inferior to King is where this issue is stemming from. Zoro rn isn't proven to be stronger than King yet since we don't know if he is going to power up to beat King in this fight.

Thus, no one has any reason to believe that Marco who is hyped as admiral leveled (can fight equally with admirals) in databooks, who is WB's right hand and who was exhausted when holding off both King and Queen, is inferior to King or Zoro. It also would make no sense for Whitebeard's top commander to be weaker than Kaido or Big Mom's.

So really there is no evidence confirming that Zoro is stronger than King right now, let alone Marco.

The fact that you guys think King is inferior to Marco is where this issue is stemming from. See? I can use the exact same argument as you did. The fact that I disagree with you doesn't mean "the issue lays on me because you can't possibly be wrong", as your wording seemed to imply.

I won't repost my entire previous post where I explained why I believe Marco is weaker than King according to the recent events, none of which you tried to refute. Instead, you're basing your whole argument for King's powerlevel on:
1- Marco's hype from a databook. (Damn, where was this databook acceptance when the vivre card suggested Mihawk is stronger than Shanks).
2- "Whitebeard's subordinates should be stronger than Kaido's because I say so".

You want to hold the argument until Zoro defeats King (which is set on stone) because he may grow stronger during the fight? Alright, that part is fair. Zoro after an additional powerup wouldn't be "current Zoro", even though current Zoro would just be half a fight away from unlocking a powerup naturally so he'd also get it against Marco anyway. I'll be back when Zoro is done with Marco's superior fighter (I strain the word fighter, Marco is superior in other aspects, even on the battlefield, but definitely not in a 1vs1 based on their feats, showings and hype).

It's also very unfortunate for Marco that Zoro just mastered the art of cutting fire. Of course, until Marco's regeneration runs off, Zoro would still not be able to kill/defeat Marco no matter what he tried (nor would anyone else without a hax skill that overcomes his DF, but those characters are very few and exceptions), but just like King can outlast Marco's regeneration with his stamina and ancient zoan recovery, Zoro can just cut Marco's flame attacks and block/tank/dodge the melee stuff while mincing Marco.

A battle with Marco is just a battle of endurance. If Katakuri fought against him, it would be a battle of Katakuri dodging everything and Marco regenerating everything until one ran out of stamina, just like Marco vs King is regeneration vs endurance. Marco's big disadvantage when compared to other Yonkou Commanders is that he has failed to show good feats of damage dealing despite getting plenty hits onscreen on enemies, which is why I believe he gets outlasted in these matchups.

 

[AmitDS]

The fact that you guys think King is inferior to Marco is where this issue is stemming from. See? I can use the exact same argument as you did. The fact that I disagree with you doesn't mean "the issue lays on me because you can't possibly be wrong", as your wording seemed to imply.

Lol our arguments aren't the same though. You guys are the same ones who say WB > Kaido & Big Mom and WB has the strongest crew of the emperors. BUT because you need King to be stronger than Marco so Zoro's victory can be more grand, now suddenly Marco being =/> King is just as likely as him being weaker. You guys are sooooooo transparent. But we all knew this was inevitable when Zoro became King's opponent.

I won't repost my entire previous post where I explained why I believe Marco is weaker than King according to the recent events, none of which you tried to refute. Instead, you're basing your whole argument for King's powerlevel on:
1- Marco's hype from a databook. (Damn, where was this databook acceptance when the vivre card suggested Mihawk is stronger than Shanks).
2- "Whitebeard's subordinates should be stronger than Kaido's because I say so".

1) Marco's databook hype exists unlike King's.

2) What did Mihawk's vivre card state that proves he's stronger than Shanks? That he's the WSS? That Shanks is his rival and he's looking for someone stronger? I recall the novel stating that Shanks got fame dueling Mihawk and afterwards he was an emperor and one must be at least this strong to be one. I also recall hearing that the emperors are the 4 strongest pirates on the level of WB in the manga. I also recall Mihawk stating the gap between him and WB shrunk. I even recall something about not everyone using a sword is a swordsman somewhere.

3) If WB was the strongest pirate with the strongest crew. Marco is his 'YC1', is hyped by Big Mom as too great to be allying with Luffy ( the db states he can equal an admiral) AND Marco was literally holding both King and Queen back while exhausted WHILE impressing & amazing them, then it stands to reason that he's at least equal to King who Zoro has not defeated yet.

You want to hold the argument until Zoro defeats King (which is set on stone) because he may grow stronger during the fight? Alright, that part is fair. Zoro after an additional powerup wouldn't be "current Zoro", even though current Zoro would just be half a fight away from unlocking a powerup naturally so he'd also get it against Marco anyway. I'll be back when Zoro is done with Marco's superior fighter (I strain the word fighter, Marco is superior in other aspects, even on the battlefield, but definitely not in a 1vs1 based on their feats, showings and hype).

And you can be back because if Zoro gets a new power up to beat King then I would be right. Furthermore even then we'd not know for sure if he's above Marco since Marco, as I said, is likely stronger than King even marginally. So you'd need more than extreme diffing King to prove Zoro beats Marco 1 vs 1 now.

It's also very unfortunate for Marco that Zoro just mastered the art of cutting fire. Of course, until Marco's regeneration runs off, Zoro would still not be able to kill/defeat Marco no matter what he tried (nor would anyone else without a hax skill that overcomes his DF, but those characters are very few and exceptions), but just like King can outlast Marco's regeneration with his stamina and ancient zoan recovery, Zoro can just cut Marco's flame attacks and block/tank/dodge the melee stuff while mincing Marco.

Well last time I checked, Marco's fire is special and isn't bound by the same rules as other, normal forms of fire. In fact he was able to nullify Prometheus' fire just like Zoro and Kinemon's cutting technique, funny enough. So again, you need evidence that Marco's magical fire operates like Prometheus' for example and that this somehow means he can't use it to regenerate if Zoro slashes him.

Spoiler

Also, you're operating under the assumption that Marco will be doing nothing except regenerating from Zoro's 'super effective' fire cutting and slashing. lol As if he can't/won't fight.

Thirdly, King didn't outlast anything. Marco was holding off King AND Queen, after expending his powers on the alliance and was notably exhausted before even engaging King 1 vs 1. So saying King can beat/outlast fresh Marco is wrong and a headcanon to inflate King and thus Zoro.

A battle with Marco is just a battle of endurance. If Katakuri fought against him, it would be a battle of Katakuri dodging everything and Marco regenerating everything until one ran out of stamina, just like Marco vs King is regeneration vs endurance. Marco's big disadvantage when compared to other Yonkou Commanders is that he has failed to show good feats of damage dealing despite getting plenty hits onscreen on enemies, which is why I believe he gets outlasted in these matchups.

I don't know where everyone is getting this headcanon that Marco cannot inflict damage. Just because he uses regeneration and heals, doesn't mean he can't fight. This obsession with dismissing healers is so typical and widespread in this male dominated, Western, manga fandom. We've seen him beat up King and Queen together and this is ignoring the fact that he's able to use observation & armament confirmed in his VC.

Spoiler

So purposefully misrepresenting Marco's capabilities is not going to give Zoro the win. Everyone has eyes and everyone reads and saw how he fought thus far and knows he has more to show.

 

[Urek Mazino]

First of all hello everyone!

For now i would still give this fight to Marco since he was fighting both King and Queen at once and still helping others but things would probably be different after Zoro's fight with King.

One thing i have a problem with though is some ppl saying that Yamato is fighting Kaido and Zoro only slashed him and couldn't keep him occupied as long as Yamato so that means Yamato is stronger.

Those 2 fights can't be compared. Zoro had all of his bones broken at that time and still managed to hurt Kaido more than anyone before in that fight. If he was uninjured he could probably stall Kaido for some time. On the other hand Yamato is fighting her father who wants her to be next Shogun, of course Kaido isn't that serious in that fight.

And for those who say that Kaido was still standing after Zoro's attack, what do you think is worse, when someone punches you and you fall to the ground or when someone stabs you and you are still standing? I would say that stab wound is much worse even though you didn't fall from the impact.

 

[HereNThere]

Let's put things

First of all hello everyone!

Welcome to the forums. Enjoy your stay.

Those 2 fights can't be compared. Zoro had all of his bones broken at that time and still managed to hurt Kaido more than anyone before in that fight. If he was uninjured he could probably stall Kaido for some time. On the other hand Yamato is fighting her father who wants her to be next Shogun, of course Kaido isn't that serious in that fight.

The series went out of its way to point out that Zoro put everything he had into the attack, from having it be his first demonstration of CoC, something that usually awakens fully during desperate moments, to having the character flat out say that that was the strongest attack he could muster, which is confirmed given that that was the only attack that scarred Kaido, despite the fact that Zoro had cut him previously already. Think of when Luffy dug deep and did his first Jet Gatling against Lucci. No one would say that a healthy Luffy could've done that from the jump and beaten Lucci sooner because we saw Luffy giving it his all already.

Yamato has repeatedly stated that Kaido beat the shit out of him constantly and has been under house arrest with exploded cuffs. Kaido has no problems stomping his child to near death. Nevermind that Kaido never stated he intended to kill the Supernova either and probably wanted them under his thumb. Kaido literally was asking them to join him still after he Bagua'd Zoro and Law.

And for those who say that Kaido was still standing after Zoro's attack, what do you think is worse, when someone punches you and you fall to the ground or when someone stabs you and you are still standing? I would say that stab wound is much worse even though you didn't fall from the impact.

Two things. It was a cut, not a stab and the punch is worst. Because, in this case, the punch has been literally said to destroy things from the inside. Getting rocked in the face or stomach and having your head scrambled from the inside is probably the less fun alternative. Given Kaido's reaction to Luffy's hits in comparison to Zoro's makes that pretty clear. We've yet to see Yamato's results, I imagine he's put in enough work to odd out the evens for Luffy.

 

[Grandmaster Woro]

Call me out for... stating facts? Not sure I get your logic.

no, i don't call out people for stating facts. I do call out people with failed logic. No offense.

Did you know if you add potatoes to a meal it removes the salt? Try eating potatoes, homie.

when people already lose the arguments, they resort to ad hominem rather than giving rebuttals

--- Double Post Merged, Aug 27, 2021, Original Post Date: Aug 27, 2021 ---

First of all hello everyone!

For now i would still give this fight to Marco since he was fighting both King and Queen at once and still helping others but things would probably be different after Zoro's fight with King.

One thing i have a problem with though is some ppl saying that Yamato is fighting Kaido and Zoro only slashed him and couldn't keep him occupied as long as Yamato so that means Yamato is stronger.

Those 2 fights can't be compared. Zoro had all of his bones broken at that time and still managed to hurt Kaido more than anyone before in that fight. If he was uninjured he could probably stall Kaido for some time. On the other hand Yamato is fighting her father who wants her to be next Shogun, of course Kaido isn't that serious in that fight.

And for those who say that Kaido was still standing after Zoro's attack, what do you think is worse, when someone punches you and you fall to the ground or when someone stabs you and you are still standing? I would say that stab wound is much worse even though you didn't fall from the impact.

now this is a good analysis. It shows the supporting points for marco but also doesn't deliberately bash at zoro feats. Unlike the two failures i talked with before