One Piece Power Level Discussion Thread

[goldb]

Ground Rules for the Power Level Discussion Thread
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As of now these topics are shelved due to repetitiveness or until the manga can present us with material to further discussions:

1. Shanks v Mihawk
2. Hand to hand fighters > Swordsmen
3. Zoro > Luffy
4. Zoro v Sanji
5. Is Smoker a top 30 character?
6. Mihawk's rank within the story
7. Law having CoC currently.
8. Katakuri > Kaido/Luffy/Etc.

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[Fox666]

Luffy is already near Yonko level

Rob Lucci and the rest of the CP-0 have to be super strong to be of any relevance to the plot

 

[albertwv]

I think people are overhyping Lucci.
To me this WG coming over to Wano is ridiculous. Oda is overpacking this arc. First we have Kaido, then BM, and now CP0. Too much. But then again, WG coming over may deter BM after Kaido is defeated.
Because CP-0 should know that BM is in Wano so even if Kaido is defeated, what makes them think BM wont do anything.

 

[DeadlyBeast]

Dudes that strong are rare and few and far between
I think yc4 to yc1 or even YC1+ are the most you’d find

Not to mention that even this might be a bit too generous. Ciphor pol spend most of their time doing espionage, not battling. Their job and role in government isn't as combat focused as marines so I suspect their best fighters will be tobi roppo level.

 

[grey matter]

Dudes that strong are rare and few and far between
I think yc4 to yc1 or even YC1+ are the most you’d find

Yea, but this is also CP0, not some random dudes. They are personal force of Tenryubito/WG. They need to be strong to be relevant, there should be at least one admiral tier within the CP0

Also, I don't see why Lucci can't be as strong as a YC1 if he has trained his ass off

--- Double Post Merged, Oct 9, 2021, Original Post Date: Oct 9, 2021 ---

I think people are overhyping Lucci.
To me this WG coming over to Wano is ridiculous. Oda is overpacking this arc. First we have Kaido, then BM, and now CP0. Too much. But then again, WG coming over may deter BM after Kaido is defeated.
Because CP-0 should know that BM is in Wano so even if Kaido is defeated, what makes them think BM wont do anything.

How is it overhype when we know nothing about them? Maybe you're right, maybe they're even stronger than where I consider them to be at. None of us know how strong they are

As for current arc, I don't see CP0 doing much except few skirmishes that get nowhere, they are being saved for another arc

 

[XXGenesis]

CP0 should not have a Yonkou lv Spy. It would throw the balance of power off and would make zero sense why the WG; ain’t take out the Yonkou; that’s too much fire power in their possession……..I.E ODA did create 2 random Admiral lv characters,

Commander lv makes a lot more sense.

 

[grey matter]

CP0 should not have a Yonkou lv Spy. It would throw the balance of power off and would make zero sense why the WG; ain’t take out the Yonkou; that’s too much fire power in their possession……..I.E ODA did create 2 random Admiral lv characters,

Commander lv makes a lot more sense.

Yeah, maybe one member being admiral tier (the leader) and 2-3 members being YC tier is what I expect. No Yonko tiers

 

[XXGenesis]

Dudes that strong are rare and few and far between
I think yc4 to yc1 or even YC1+ are the most you’d find

Greenbull & Fujitora we’re out chillin in the grand line. & Oda said hold up let me draft them to the navy……

So are commander lv’s the most you’ll find??

 

[DeadlyBeast]

Yea, but this is also CP0, not some random dudes. They are personal force of Tenryubito/WG. They need to be strong to be relevant, there should be at least one admiral tier within the CP0

This is kinda of irrelevant, since everyone in the marines is also under the CD. Ciphor Pol and Marines have different chain of command but they both end up at the same place at the top of the chain. Heck CD can directly tell Admirals what to do, so they don't need net new Admiral level people in Ciphor Pol to have someone that strong under them. This was specifically cited as reason Garp refused promotion above Vice Admiral:

Spoiler: Marine Admiral's are directly under CD

Also, I don't see why Lucci can't be as strong as a YC1 if he has trained his ass off

Simple, in the New World we have been shown that the way to get to top tier level strength is with haki. Additionally, we've learned that there is a limit to how strong one can get their haki from just training alone. It's been repeated several times that haki blooms in battle:

Spoiler: Luffy remembering Rayleigh's lesson on haki growth

Beyond just the statement, we've seen this in practice several times already:

1. Luffy learning future sight through a grueling battle with katakuri
2. Luffy learning internal destruction in a moment of life and death with the collars
3. Luffy learning advanced conquerors haki in his battle with Kaido

If these things could all just be trained, Rayleigh would have at least shown Luffy one of them. The fact he finished Luffy's haki training 6 months early and left him at that is strong evidence that training does have limits.

How is it overhype when we know nothing about them? Maybe you're right, maybe they're even stronger than where I consider them to be at. None of us know how strong they are

As for current arc, I don't see CP0 doing much except few skirmishes that get nowhere, they are being saved for another arc

I wouldn't say we know nothing about them. We actually know quite a lot of information about them, just not their names/powers:

• CP0 is a division of Ciphor Pol
• We're told they are the worst of Ciphor Pol and are supposed to be secret (reminds me of CP9 being secret)
• We know CIphor Pol is an intelligence agency, and primarly engages in espionage/information gathering
• We know Ciphor Pol does not typically engage pirates as this is the job of marines the real military arm of the government/CD

From the above, it is reasonable to think CP0 is not likely to be fighting YC level or above opponents since they can do their job without it. Without fighting the upper tier people how can we expect any of them to be that strong?

As for their potential fighting strength, this arc provided us something to gauge CP0 with - Who's-Who. What we know about him is:

1. Served as a member of CP9, which prior to us learning about CP0 had similar reputation of being a dangerous secret org inside an already secret org
2. Was considered a genius fighter with only Rob Lucci being comparable
3. We know he has an ancient zoan fruit, that is technically better than Rob Lucci's zoan
4. He is a rokushiki master, which we know is Rob Lucci, Kaku, and even Stussy use as their mode of combat (all current members of CP0)
5. He has had years to train post prison and knows haki
6. Has had opportunity to fight strong pirates

Despite all of the above Who's-Who still lost to Jinbei pretty handily. Considering how the members of CP0 that are present talked him up, what we know about them as an organization, and Whos-Whos display of strength it's not likely we'll be seeing their members fighting at YC and above level.

I'm afraid we'll end up being more disappointed than happy when we actually get to see them fight. It will be like the Topi Roppo all over again, with lots of hype etc but not much on the delivery.

 

[I Am Atomic]

There is a reason why Yonko's are strong as they are. They are a group of people that has fought against every challenge from a young age, and blessed with superiority (CoC, OP fruits, and genetically superior). CP0 that hasn't been battling for their lives cannot be that strong or even close to it.

I agree that at best they will be around tobi roppo level or the weakest YC's.

 

[HereNThere]

CP0 can probably be anywhere from the level of Yonkou Commanders to Admiral/Yonkou.

Mother Caramel was trying to sell Big Mom to the WG and hyped her power for three potential roles. Admiral, Fleet Admiral, and the strongest CP0 member. The first two positions we know are comparable to Yonkou at the top of the world. So with CP0 being mentioned alongside them, it may stand to reason that they also have a similar standing. At least, as far as upper limits go.

 

[DeadlyBeast]

CP0 can probably be anywhere from the level of Yonkou Commanders to Admiral/Yonkou.

Mother Caramel was trying to sell Big Mom to the WG and hyped her power for three potential roles. Admiral, Fleet Admiral, and the strongest CP0 member. The first two positions we know are comparable to Yonkou at the top of the world. So with CP0 being mentioned alongside them, it may stand to reason that they also have a similar standing. At least, as far as upper limits go.

I read that as a sales pitch (since she is trying to get a higher price from CP0 agents in the meeting) saying Big Mom has the potential to get to the top of whatever government affiliated organization that they put her in, and not as a statement of the equivalency of those roles e.g. top of Marines = top of CP0.

 

[HereNThere]

I read that as a sales pitch (since she is trying to get a higher price from CP0 agents in the meeting) saying Big Mom has the potential to get to the top of whatever government affiliated organization that they put her in, and not as a statement of the equivalency of those roles e.g. top of Marines = top of CP0.

It definitely was a sales pitch, but given that all of those groups are at the pinnacle of the world in terms of strength and Big Mom, despite going down a different path, is still at the level she is, I'd say Oda's intentions are to show that all of these roles are somewhat comparable.

 

[DeadlyBeast]

It definitely was a sales pitch, but given that all of those groups are at the pinnacle of the world in terms of strength and Big Mom, despite going down a different path, is still at the level she is, I'd say Oda's intentions are to show that all of these roles are somewhat comparable.

I agree their roles are comparable but don't think their raw fighting power itself is comparable. The WG has a lot of power but to me it comes in many forms:

• Political - through their administration and alliance of nations
• Military - through the marines
• Science/knowledge - through people like Vegapunk
• Intelligence - through cipher pol
• Economic/monetary - through the forced tributes from member nations

I believe each of those are equally comparable roles in the totality of the WGs power but each one specializes in something. For raw fighting power, the marines is where I'd look not Ciphor Pol. But hey, I could be wrong and be pleasantly surprised when we see the best of CP0 fighting, I just don't have my hopes up any more since majority of Odas post time skip hype has been a dud.

 

[Fallou]

My wild guess about Lucci is that he managed to get NW-ready strong meaning he mastered armament, observation to a good level, and added that to his rokushiki techniques.
He should be VA level, maybe more. So I guess low level YC? Seems the most reasonable thing to me

 

[Lord Traffy Law]

Yea, but this is also CP0, not some random dudes. They are personal force of Tenryubito/WG. They need to be strong to be relevant, there should be at least one admiral tier within the CP0

Also, I don't see why Lucci can't be as strong as a YC1 if he has trained his ass off

--- Double Post Merged, Oct 9, 2021, Original Post Date: Oct 9, 2021 ---

How is it overhype when we know nothing about them? Maybe you're right, maybe they're even stronger than where I consider them to be at. None of us know how strong they are

As for current arc, I don't see CP0 doing much except few skirmishes that get nowhere, they are being saved for another arc

Man do you know how rare dudes as poweful as king and katakuri are , talk less off actual admirals
i think it's crazy impressive to recruit dudes of that calibre to fight

Greenbull & Fujitora we’re out chillin in the grand line. & Oda said hold up let me draft them to the navy……

So are commander lv’s the most you’ll find??

mayne for me I dunno I consider those 2 somewhat weaker than the OG admirals, garp and sengoku
and also that was a worldwide draft , scoured the entire world to find dudes that strong

 

[M3J]

I don't understand why you can't think CP0 can have an admiral-level or emperor-level spy in their midst, especially as the top government agent. They'd likely get the hardest assignment and thus would need similar power to ensure it succeeds, just in case.

 

[Crimson Ice]

Because Admiral level characters are few and far between. Plus, CP0 are spies. What covert mission would require you to have combat strength on the level of a Yonko.

 

[Luke Beifong]

Because Admiral level characters are few and far between. Plus, CP0 are spies. What covert mission would require you to have combat strength on the level of a Yonko.

Changing the subject, but it makes me remember one thing I read long ago about one of the greats holes in OP history.

Why we don’t have so many strong bounty hunters in a universe where pirates with bounty’s of one billion are around? Because it’s a lot more easier to have the same strength of a pirate of 50 millions and hunt weak pirates and live with the money they earn that way.

After I read that, never more I questioned why we don’t have strong bounty hunters in the history.

 

[M3J]

Because Admiral level characters are few and far between. Plus, CP0 are spies. What covert mission would require you to have combat strength on the level of a Yonko.

but there's no limit to how many characters we can have, as long as they're few. To us it may look like many but in the OPverse, the opposite since there'd be over thousands of people like that.

idk, but CP9 were pretty strong, and that helped them defend against most pirates and be seen as dependable and reliable.

 

[LadyVados]

I know it is fairly difficult to judge just yet, but how strong do you think CP-0 agents are?
THe first 3 we saw in Dressrosa seem pretty strong, stronger than Lucci and Kaku. Honestly I was kinda disappointed that Lucci and Kaku were brought back. Stussy seem weak as well..
CP-0 agents must be at least stronnger than VAs

Some Lucci fans think he's been keeping pace with Luffy in growth and is still roughly equal to him and he'll be Fleet Admiral at EOS and Luffy's Garp.

--- Double Post Merged, Oct 10, 2021, Original Post Date: Oct 10, 2021 ---

He never did!
All he did was push her boat back into the sea, they never even made contact.

A loss is a loss.