One Piece Power Level Discussion Thread

[goldb]

Ground Rules for the Power Level Discussion Thread
​

As always, please follow the guidelines set by the Forum Rules that apply across the board.

It's important that discussions from a current chapter are spoiler tagged until 24h have passed from an english release.

• For the sake of constructive discussion, where and when possible please quote/ source any information you provide. Particularly when it comes to conversations carried over from other threads.
• Avoid passive agressive posts, sly remarks or baiting/trolling. You can certainly have fun or disagree without it being at someone's expense.
• Only use anime examples that are canon and as means to provide clarity to pages in the manga. Any other anime material is otherwise non-canon and should only be referenced if it can be proved that the mangaka had approved it.
• We will strive to avoid repetitive discussions and any extensive battle topics will be guided to the Davy Back fight to existing threads or new ones can be made there.

As of now these topics are shelved due to repetitiveness or until the manga can present us with material to further discussions:

1. Shanks v Mihawk
2. Hand to hand fighters > Swordsmen
3. Zoro > Luffy
4. Zoro v Sanji
5. Is Smoker a top 30 character?
6. Mihawk's rank within the story
7. Law having CoC currently.
8. Katakuri > Kaido/Luffy/Etc.

If you wish to continue any of these discussion and remove it from the list, you will need to provide manga material as proof. If there's also anything you think we've covered numerous times, let me know and I'll update the list.

This is the only warning there'll be regarding these ground rules, anything no adhering will be removed. So please just check your posts before posting them.

 

[albertwv]

Also I’ve mentally bumped up doflamingo, he’s somewhere between YC1 and YC1+ if not admiral in regards to DF mastery ( like enel ) just that his haki and fighting style might be a bit lower considering what law and kidd say how draining using awakening is for them , unless awakening isn’t always draining ( ala impel down fruit users ) but he’s hard to scale as a Rock Paper Scissors type now imo

No Doffy is not YC1 because of awakening. He may have mastered his awakening but he is not YC1. To me Doffy is equal to Cracker a YC3. Doffy was stomped by G4 Luffy, he stood no chance at all, his haki attacks had no effect and his string couldnt penetrate G4. Yet Cracker on the other hand was capable of hurting G4 Luffy with his haki and his biscuit soldiers proved a threat to G4 Luffy, mainly because they were many of them to replicate.
Cracker said he doesnt like pain but doesnt mean he cant stand the pain. He lost to Luffy due to being smashed through various of his biscuits which we know are strong af. Kinda disappointed on how the fight ended, wished it would have shown more or taken more than one shot to take him down.

Cracker vs Doffy, it would end in a tie.

 

[Lord Traffy Law]

No Doffy is not YC1 because of awakening. He may have mastered his awakening but he is not YC1. To me Doffy is equal to Cracker a YC3. Doffy was stomped by G4 Luffy, he stood no chance at all, his haki attacks had no effect and his string couldnt penetrate G4. Yet Cracker on the other hand was capable of hurting G4 Luffy with his haki and his biscuit soldiers proved a threat to G4 Luffy, mainly because they were many of them to replicate.
Cracker said he doesnt like pain but doesnt mean he cant stand the pain. He lost to Luffy due to being smashed through various of his biscuits which we know are strong af. Kinda disappointed on how the fight ended, wished it would have shown more or taken more than one shot to take him down.

Cracker vs Doffy, it would end in a tie.

I was specific I mean in regards to just DF mastery , he’s as good a devil fruit user we have ever seem
He’s not close to katakuri Marco and co
I agree and I. Am with , I think I should edit and emphasize

 

[Zehahaha]

Interesting theory going around is that numbers are science experiments in which kaido converted the soldiers he failed to break
As the numbers and samurai do have some visual similarities

This would be great but I think Numbers were probably picked up by Kaido when he escaped from PH. Kaido was caught by the marines, and subject to expirements. Queen was prolly part of Vegapunk's team, and looking at King's ID uniform, he must have been part of the staff. They must have helped Kaido escape and he most likely picked the Numbers with him from there.

 

[XXGenesis]

This is a sorry-ass reply, you yourself are repeating talking points. And why did you mention a bunch of discussions I HAVEN'T BEEN IN. I don't care about the discussions other people have had, and I'm sure you couldn't give a good rebuttal back then,

Your opinion seems to be based on reading the manga without applying any context to the situations at hand. If you had NO decent response you could have just not replied, yet you said this. It's okay to not be able to reply, you just don't have to cry about it.

I really don’t care to reply to you because I’ll be wasting my time. You always talking about some dumb wack ish……You deserve that response because your reply was .

Sanji’s power boost is Massive! & preforming w/o a raid suit. With no foreshadowing…..how much do I care 25% I really don’t care much, I’m still enjoying the story & I’m happy for the character;

I’m simply calling it out because there’s too much loose writing by ODA!

Why is Ulti a Tobi Roppo, getting up after Big MoM’s attack? What context is there to add to that scene…..She’s a Zoan?? So shouldn’t the other Tobi Roppo who got K.O by Other SH’s not revive also?? There’s no excuse for it beside——Story telling for Nami to quickly finish her off and have a win.

 

[Crimson Ice]

I really don’t care to reply to you because I’ll be wasting my time. You always talking about some dumb wack ish……You deserve that response because your reply was .

Sanji’s power boost is Massive! & preforming w/o a raid suit. With no foreshadowing…..how much do I care 25% I really don’t care much, I’m still enjoying the story & I’m happy for the character;

I’m simply calling it out because there’s too much loose writing by ODA!

Why is Ulti a Tobi Roppo, getting up after Big MoM’s attack? What context is there to add to that scene…..She’s a Zoan?? So shouldn’t the other Tobi Roppo who got K.O by Other SH’s not revive also?? There’s no excuse for it beside——Story telling for Nami to quickly finish her off and have a win.

But yet here you are, replying. You can't spit up your usual nonsense so you're being dismissive.

Foreshadowing of what? Don't use words you don't understand. Sanji's base stats increasing don't require foreshadowing. Sprinkling buzzwords everywhere doesn't make you right. Like I said before, Sanji was always rather strong and he simply powered up. Not to mention, Sanji literally just got a powerup with his Germa genes, so Oda has to power Sanji AGAIN to justify him beating Queen. Sanji's power raise is fine.

Ulti is a dragon type Zoan known for their monster durability and endurance, so yeah, she survived a homie attack from Big Mam. Ulti is most likely getting KOed for good if she took the same move Page One did. Who's Who and Black Maria are not dragon type zoans so their durability isn't as high. As for Sasaki, Franky literally couldn't hurt him anywhere outside his underbelly, which was his weak spot. Franky never overpowered Sasaki's toughness. And you're complaining about Nami beating Ulti? Even though you just acknowledged Big Mam attacked her? That same attack put her on her last legs........ and then ANOTHER ONE OF BIG MAM'S HOMIES FINISHES HER.


Yeah, maybe stop speed reading One Piece and you'd be able to pick out the obvious things. Nami, Franky and Robin's fights Tobi Toppo wasn't them overpowering them, heck, Nami and Robin's wins weren't even CLEAN WINS.

All that sass for what? For you to bring out another bad point.

You should stop replying, I see why you got defensive.

 

[albertwv]

@XXGenesis has a point about Ulti, Zoan revival rate and the rest of the F6 battles oh and Oda's loose writing.
Ulti and Sasaki somewhat clashed with Yamato who we now know is probably YC1+, yet they are lower than YC3s. Zoan durability should NOT have any play in this. Ulti getting back up several times is just an asspull especially after BM's attack.

The rest of F6 losing their battles somewhat effortlessly was pathetic, especially as Ancient Zoans in a Yonko crew, Even CP9 members lasted longer vrsus the SHs at that time.

 

[XXGenesis]

Overall here is my new ranking of what little sense I can make out of One Piece battle system using Haki, will, endurance etc…..

My tier to those relevant & a few extra add ins

Yonkou Tier
Kaido
Big Mom
Luffy (latest chapter)

Commander 0/ 1+
Oden
Yamato
Marco
Luffy (Before falling off Onigashima)
Law (latest chapter)
Kidd (latest chapter)

Commander 1
King
Katakuri
Zoro
Vista

Commander 2
Ace
Queen
Sanji
Smoothie
Jozu

Commander 3
Cracker
Jack
Cat Viper
Dogstrom
Doflamingo
Jimbei
Apoo
X Drake

Commander 4
Snack
Urouge
Germa 66 RS
Killer
Ulti
Hawkins
Peros Pero
Ashura
Denjiro

Yonkou Mid Crew
Who’s Who
Page One
Sasaki
Black Moriah
Robin
Franky
Kinemon
Kiku
Kawamatsu

 

[HereNThere]

Ulti and Sasaki somewhat clashed with Yamato who we now know is probably YC1+, yet they are lower than YC3s. Zoan durability should NOT have any play in this. Ulti getting back up several times is just an asspull especially after BM's attack.

But neither of those two clashed with Yamato though...

Ulti got bopped in the faced and when they met next, Yamato had an entire conversation with Luffy while easily blocking Ulti's attack. Ulti wasn't a concern to him.

Against Sasaki, aside from the fact that the two never even fought, Yamato spent most of that confrontation protecting Momo and Shinobu from fodder. He willingly used his body as a shield for them.

I think the scales are still fine for Yamato.

I honestly think Oda grew attached to Ulti more than the other Tobi Roppo and let her play around more than he probably initially intended. I'm fairly certain her and Page One are getting the next cover story.

 

[Lord Traffy Law]

@XXGenesis has a point about Ulti, Zoan revival rate and the rest of the F6 battles oh and Oda's loose writing.
Ulti and Sasaki somewhat clashed with Yamato who we now know is probably YC1+, yet they are lower than YC3s. Zoan durability should NOT have any play in this. Ulti getting back up several times is just an asspull especially after BM's attack.

The rest of F6 losing their battles somewhat effortlessly was pathetic, especially as Ancient Zoans in a Yonko crew, Even CP9 members lasted longer vrsus the SHs at that time.

Ulti clashed with luffy , ulti is tough
Yamato never really fought sakasaki

 

[grey matter]

@XXGenesis has a point about Ulti, Zoan revival rate and the rest of the F6 battles oh and Oda's loose writing.
Ulti and Sasaki somewhat clashed with Yamato who we now know is probably YC1+, yet they are lower than YC3s. Zoan durability should NOT have any play in this. Ulti getting back up several times is just an asspull especially after BM's attack.

The rest of F6 losing their battles somewhat effortlessly was pathetic, especially as Ancient Zoans in a Yonko crew, Even CP9 members lasted longer vrsus the SHs at that time.

Yamato is probably YC1-2 (closer to YC1), not YC1+. Ace pretty much stalemated her 3 years back Kaido definitely held back on killing her, we can't really scale her to YC1+ based on the fight against Kaido

Ulti is borderline YC3 tier, it makes sense that she put up a fight against Yamato
Big Mom isn't exactly high on attack power. Kid tanked her attacks while being screwed over by Hawkins. Law and Kid have been tanking several attacks from her. Killer and Zoro also tanked attacks from her. So, Ulti tanking a couple of attacks from BM doesn't bother me either

I think the issue here is that the rest of the tobiroppo (apart from Ulti and maybe Drake) were a disappointment power level vise.

 

[XXGenesis]

@grey matter Im seriously not satisfied at all with Big Mom’s power output.

- We’ve seen her K.O judge with lighting from Zesus.
-Use Ikou Sovereignty cut through a forest & onigashima
- ***Kidd juss tanked that attack smdh**
-K.O Queen under amnesia with a toss & slam
-K.O PageOne with CoC punch

Just sadly to say, her damage and power output ain’t been to hype. Compared to Kaido’s

But yet here you are, replying. You can't spit up your usual nonsense so you're being dismissive.

Foreshadowing of what? Don't use words you don't understand. Sanji's base stats increasing don't require foreshadowing. Sprinkling buzzwords everywhere doesn't make you right. Like I said before, Sanji was always rather strong and he simply powered up. Not to mention, Sanji literally just got a powerup with his Germa genes, so Oda has to power Sanji AGAIN to justify him beating Queen. Sanji's power raise is fine.

Ulti is a dragon type Zoan known for their monster durability and endurance, so yeah, she survived a homie attack from Big Mam. Ulti is most likely getting KOed for good if she took the same move Page One did. Who's Who and Black Maria are not dragon type zoans so their durability isn't as high. As for Sasaki, Franky literally couldn't hurt him anywhere outside his underbelly, which was his weak spot. Franky never overpowered Sasaki's toughness. And you're complaining about Nami beating Ulti? Even though you just acknowledged Big Mam attacked her? That same attack put her on her last legs........ and then ANOTHER ONE OF BIG MAM'S HOMIES FINISHES HER.


Yeah, maybe stop speed reading One Piece and you'd be able to pick out the obvious things. Nami, Franky and Robin's fights Tobi Toppo wasn't them overpowering them, heck, Nami and Robin's wins weren't even CLEAN WINS.

All that sass for what? For you to bring out another bad point.

You should stop replying, I see why you got defensive.

You think Sanji was strong. I’m not talking to another stone head person about how disappointing Sanji has been before Wano; It’s probably the biggest gripe Of One Piece fans have; I’ll pass.

Tobi Toppo fights were mid…Only Franky & Robin’s fights made sense.

 

[hokageji]

@XXGenesis That's a great rank list, hard to pick arguments against it...
I like the fact that Mingo and Cracker are on the same level... we can debate who is stronger than whom but both sides of the argument definitely adds to the fact that they would be Yonko level 2...

I would put Hawkins lower.. i think his ability depends heavily upon the strawdolls and the tier below them would easily squash him if they dont care of the implications...

Anyways, its a good list..

 

[AmitDS]

@grey matter Im seriously not satisfied at all with Big Mom’s power output.

- We’ve seen her K.O judge with lighting from Zesus.
-Use Ikou Sovereignty cut through a forest & onigashima
- ***Kidd juss tanked that attack smdh**
-K.O Queen under amnesia with a toss & slam
-K.O PageOne with CoC punch

Just sadly to say, her damage and power output ain’t been to hype. Compared to Kaido’s

Well luckily for her she fought Kaido in the manga for 2-3days and stalemated him so her power can't be up for debate lol or else Kaido with his "superior" attack power should've just killed her as he claimed he wanted to right?

Anyway, Kidd didn't outright tank her Ikoku, his entire mecha was wrecked and he was blown away in the explosion. This is a a purposeful misrepresentation, just like the misrepresentation that Zoro "blocked" Hakai lol.
And even if Kidd managed to "tank" her attack, that won't necessarily be a knock on her attack power, it would just be a feat for Kidd. Blocking 1 Yonkou attack doesn't invalidate the Yonkou's power level, it's not as existential as you're making it out to be lol. We literally saw Law "tanking" Kaido's Thunder Bagua on the rooftop before he came downstairs to struggle against BM, and Yamato even fought with him (albeit he was weakened) to a somewhat draw for a while.

The fact that BM is yet to use advanced conqueror's haki or even advanced armament in that fight is telling as well. Kidd and Law "handling" her homie abilities and in your scenario, her Ikoku, doesn't equate to her being lesser than her Yonkou peers in terms of attack power. You're even stating and acknowledging in your own post that she used advanced CoC on P1 lol so clearly there's more to be seen with her in terms of her offensive abilities.

Almost 2022 and we are still trying to gaslight people into thinking Kaido has more attack power than BM and BM somehow has weaker attack stats lol. And before anyone brings up his hybrid form giving him some sort of buff to elevate him, his hybrid has been paralleled and portrayed in tandem with her "Tamashii no Kuni no Nushi-tachi" form. This was even evidenced by the fact that both of them, in their respective forms, equally contributed to Hakai so..

 

[Zehahaha]

Yamato is probably YC1-2 (closer to YC1), not YC1+. Ace pretty much stalemated her 3 years back Kaido definitely held back on killing her, we can't really scale her to YC1+ based on the fight against Kaido

Ulti is borderline YC3 tier, it makes sense that she put up a fight against Yamato
Big Mom isn't exactly high on attack power. Kid tanked her attacks while being screwed over by Hawkins. Law and Kid have been tanking several attacks from her. Killer and Zoro also tanked attacks from her. So, Ulti tanking a couple of attacks from BM doesn't bother me either

I think the issue here is that the rest of the tobiroppo (apart from Ulti and maybe Drake) were a disappointment power level vise.

Lol if anything, she didn't mop the floor with Ace considering she had Kairoseki handcuffs.

I am sorry but Kaido didn't go easy on her. Dude was beating her using CoC imbued attacks. Yamato is absolutely above YC tier no matter what. She is somewhere in between that and Yonko.

 

[I Am Atomic]

Lol if anything, she didn't mop the floor with Ace considering she had Kairoseki handcuffs.

Without using her Mythical Zoan too (I am assuming here)

And also, Ace equals to Sabo. Yamato should be on that tier too

 

[grey matter]

Overall here is my new ranking of what little sense I can make out of One Piece battle system using Haki, will, endurance etc…..

My tier to those relevant & a few extra add ins

Yonkou Tier
Kaido
Big Mom
Luffy (latest chapter)

Commander 0/ 1+
Oden
Yamato
Marco
Luffy (Before falling off Onigashima)
Law (latest chapter)
Kidd (latest chapter)

Commander 1
King
Katakuri
Zoro
Vista

Commander 2
Queen
Sanji
Smoothie
Jozu

Commander 3
Cracker
Jack
Cat Viper
Dogstrom
Doflamingo
Jimbei
Apoo
X Drake

Commander 4
Germa 66 RS
Killer
Ulti
Hawkins
Peros Pero
Ashura
Denjiro

Yonkou Mid Crew
Who’s Who
Page One
Sasaki
Black Moriah
Robin
Franky
Kinemon
Kiku
Kawamatsu

I assume Commander 0/1+ are Admiral/borderline admiral tiers?

I agree mostly with your list.

Luffy belongs to admiral tier now IMO. He hasn't reached Yonko level yet. He will likely extreme diff a Kaido who had gone through a massive gauntlet, one of which included Luffy himself (twice), all the while spending energy to fly a freaking island across a country; and is right now exhausted to the point he can barely maintain Onigashima's flight.
While Luffy has regained his health and stamina to an extend after taking a nap + eating months worth of food

I assume Vista's ranking is because of fight with Mihawk? We don't know how serious Mihawk got there, but Mihawk did praise/commend him, and he did fight equally with at least a casual Mihawk.
He's certainly no YC4/5, I don't think WB seriously assigned commander positions based on pure power levels. Still YC1? I don't think so. Maybe YC2

Killer is YC2. He pretty much low diff'd Hawkins, if you take away the hostage situation. As well as tanked hits from BM/Kaido. Managed to get some hits on them as well.


I think you're underestimating the red scabbards.
Each of them are at least YC4 tier. Shutenmaru is portrayed to be above Jack, Cat/Dog were strong enough to give Jack high-extreme diff in their base, their sulong form is definitely YC2 tier at least. Kin'nemon and Kyoshiro should be YC2 tier. Kin'nemon was powerful enough to make Kaido bleed, Kyoushiro was pre Enma Zoro tier, both should be YC2 tier.

People forget that king didn’t go all out against Marco. I understand that marco was fighting both queen and king but I don’t think neither was going all out. But I believe that king=marco>queen when things are set and done. For right now Marco has the slight edge.

katakuri is slightly weaker than king and marco but stronger than queen.

@grey matter u fought that luffy got help from nami too right? imo DD=Cracker YC3 tier

Ehh, I don't see King fighting against admirals like Marco did. Queen was also in his transformed state almost the entire time (after the first couple of chapters). I think holding both of them alone for hours, while spending flames healing up thousands of allied soldier, and being still up and running, only willingly moving aside to give strawhats the spotlight, warrants Marco being a decent margin above King.
But yea, we'll see. Maybe King will impress me in the future

Yes, but Nami just made the fight easier. Give Luffy intel = Cracker goes down in 1 round of G4 regardless, just that it will be tougher.
I think lasting 2 rounds of G4 + Law + awakening + conqueror's haki, while Luffy was far more serious (than the almost gag level fight he had with Cracker); is better than going down to one round of G4 (with intel)

 

[albertwv]

Yamato vs Ace was pointless, we didnt see Yamato go all out so Im putting Yamato > Ace. People tend to overhype Ace alot. He was just a rookie who barely knew CoA or CoO, had no control over his CoC. If he were alive he would def be stronger but he was just Y3 level nothing higher. Hard to see him defeating Cracker or Jack.
Sabo is overhyped too because he clashed wit Fuji who was not even serious. Though I would rate Sabo above Ace, because of his Haki mastery and DF. But I would not rate Sabo YC1 or even YC1+. Katakuri would defeat him high diff. Actually I dont even see Sabo defeating Doffy or maybe a tie.

Killer is not YC2 level especially because he defeated Hawkins. Hawkins seems to be pretty weak among his peers outside the strawdoll hostage technique. Killer is best F6/Yonko Executive level close to YC3.
Shutenmaru, Dog and Cat, and maybe Kinemon are the only 9RS that I see among YC3/YC2. Denjiro has not shown us how he fares versus somebody of that level. The 9RS damaging Kaido is overrated, that doesnt necessarily mean they all are YC3+. Denjiro vs Zolo is nothing, both sides were not fully serious.

Enough about King vs Marco, until we see more of King, since we've seen more of Marco versus the Admirals, most readers agree that Marco is above. But let's wait it out and see how King performs.

 

[grey matter]

Yamato vs Ace was pointless, we didnt see Yamato go all out so Im putting Yamato > Ace. People tend to overhype Ace alot. He was just a rookie who barely knew CoA or CoO, had no control over his CoC. If he were alive he would def be stronger but he was just Y3 level nothing higher. Hard to see him defeating Cracker or Jack.
Sabo is overhyped too because he clashed wit Fuji who was not even serious. Though I would rate Sabo above Ace, because of his Haki mastery and DF. But I would not rate Sabo YC1 or even YC1+. Katakuri would defeat him high diff. Actually I dont even see Sabo defeating Doffy or maybe a tie.

Killer is not YC2 level especially because he defeated Hawkins. Hawkins seems to be pretty weak among his peers outside the strawdoll hostage technique. Killer is best F6/Yonko Executive level close to YC3.
Shutenmaru, Dog and Cat, and maybe Kinemon are the only 9RS that I see among YC3/YC2. Denjiro has not shown us how he fares versus somebody of that level. The 9RS damaging Kaido is overrated, that doesnt necessarily mean they all are YC3+. Denjiro vs Zolo is nothing, both sides were not fully serious.

Enough about King vs Marco, until we see more of King, since we've seen more of Marco versus the Admirals, most readers agree that Marco is above. But let's wait it out and see how King performs.

I feel quite the opposite, that he's underrated due to a variety of reasons, two reasons being him getting stomped by Akainu (who has elemental advantage, on top of stronger stats/haki in general), and his low bounty (this was because Oda introduced his bounty way too early)
Ace didn't really go all out either. We should also remember that Ace was only as old, if not younger, than Luffy in the beginning of the series. While Yamato was in her mid 20s. All things considered, that's pretty impressive. I'm fine with the claims that Yamato > Ace since we didn't see her transform in the fight, but at the very least Ace is as strong as her base.
And he has only grown stronger since then. He's definitely YC2 tier when he died IMO.
As for Sabo, lets see. He's ??? in stats as far as I'm concerned. Could be anywhere. Though, to be Dragon's right hand man, he should at least be YC 2 tier. If the 2nd strongest among the revolutionaries isn't even YC2 tier, then they are a joke faction


Defeating Hawkins is just a bonus. What makes his YC2 tier for me is his feats during the rooftop fight and his/Kid's portrayal. He did some damage and tanked hits from Big mom. He's definitely above the tobiroppo
We have to look at the portrayal here as well. Kid is essentially being set up as Luffy's rival, and Killer is Kid's first mate like Zoro is for Luffy. Killer also gave Zoro a mid diff fight, while not having his usual weapons. Sure, Killer will be a cut below Zoro, the same way Kid would be below Luffy. But they would be reasonably close for the "rivalry" to have some meaning. For me, Killer and Sanji would be same tier


Kin'nemon for sure. He is the leader of the scabbards, that has to mean something?
Zoro also claimed that Kyoshiro was a strong opponent when he first arrived in Onigashima (when they thought he was an enemy). If the gap between them was indeed largo, then Kyoshiro would've needed to be serious to face even a non serious Zoro. But he was casual too.
Why do you think their rooftop feats are overrated though? I cannot imagine anyone below YC tiers managing to give injuries to Kaido.

 

[Fox666]

Zoro also claimed that Kyoshiro was a strong opponent when he first arrived in Onigashima (when they thought he was an enemy). If the gap between them was indeed largo, then Kyoshiro would've needed to be serious to face even a non serious Zoro. But he was casual too.

Kyoshiro seemed far stronger than Zoro at that moment.

 

[McNuss]

Get rid of rank based tier lists.

It makes as much sense as using bounty.