One Piece Power Level Discussion Thread

[goldb]

Ground Rules for the Power Level Discussion Thread
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As of now these topics are shelved due to repetitiveness or until the manga can present us with material to further discussions:

1. Shanks v Mihawk
2. Hand to hand fighters > Swordsmen
3. Zoro > Luffy
4. Zoro v Sanji
5. Is Smoker a top 30 character?
6. Mihawk's rank within the story
7. Law having CoC currently.
8. Katakuri > Kaido/Luffy/Etc.

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[Lord Traffy Law]

Yamato vs Ace was pointless, we didnt see Yamato go all out so Im putting Yamato > Ace. People tend to overhype Ace alot. He was just a rookie who barely knew CoA or CoO, had no control over his CoC. If he were alive he would def be stronger but he was just Y3 level nothing higher. Hard to see him defeating Cracker or Jack.
Sabo is overhyped too because he clashed wit Fuji who was not even serious. Though I would rate Sabo above Ace, because of his Haki mastery and DF. But I would not rate Sabo YC1 or even YC1+. Katakuri would defeat him high diff. Actually I dont even see Sabo defeating Doffy or maybe a tie.

Killer is not YC2 level especially because he defeated Hawkins. Hawkins seems to be pretty weak among his peers outside the strawdoll hostage technique. Killer is best F6/Yonko Executive level close to YC3.
Shutenmaru, Dog and Cat, and maybe Kinemon are the only 9RS that I see among YC3/YC2. Denjiro has not shown us how he fares versus somebody of that level. The 9RS damaging Kaido is overrated, that doesnt necessarily mean they all are YC3+. Denjiro vs Zolo is nothing, both sides were not fully serious.

Enough about King vs Marco, until we see more of King, since we've seen more of Marco versus the Admirals, most readers agree that Marco is above. But let's wait it out and see how King performs.

Sabo is underestimated
I will always point out he used the most destructive and largest case use of Ryou haki we have seen to date in one piece when he destroyed the colleseum at dressora

 

[grey matter]

Kyoshito seemed far stronger than Zoro at that moment.

I don't know about that. Why do you think so?
To me, it seemed like they were around same level.

 

[Fox666]

Sabo is underestimated
I will always point out he used the most destructive and largest case use of Ryou haki we have seen to date in one piece when he destroyed the colleseum at dressora

Why would you think Sabo used anything but regular CoA?

I think destroying the Colosseum is by no means an extraordinary feat post-timeskip.

 

[Lord Traffy Law]

Why would you think Sabo used anything but regular CoA?

I think destroying the Colosseum is by no means an extraordinary feat post-timeskip.

It wasn’t emphasized then but Oda dropped the methods of Ryou flow first through sabo
And he used it on the largest scale we have ever seen

Which is why I bumped him to YC1/YC1+ , plus he’s second in command to the revolutionaries and he got taught fighting by Dragon

 

[Crimson Ice]

@grey matter Im seriously not satisfied at all with Big Mom’s power output.

- We’ve seen her K.O judge with lighting from Zesus.
-Use Ikou Sovereignty cut through a forest & onigashima
- ***Kidd juss tanked that attack smdh**
-K.O Queen under amnesia with a toss & slam
-K.O PageOne with CoC punch

Just sadly to say, her damage and power output ain’t been to hype. Compared to Kaido’s




You think Sanji was strong. I’m not talking to another stone head person about how disappointing Sanji has been before Wano; It’s probably the biggest gripe Of One Piece fans have; I’ll pass.

Tobi Toppo fights were mid…Only Franky & Robin’s fights made sense.

So after all that sass this is what you replied with? You couldn't think of anything you should just say that. Sanji's underwhelming performance isn't the same as him not being strong; you need to think a little harder.

Please, this isn't about how entertaining the fights were, it was if the Tobi Roppo's defeat made sense, which they did. You tried to imply because Ulti got up from a Big Mama attack the other Tobi Roppo shouldn't have lost their matchups. That only makes sense if you ignore context. Don't even bother replying if you're actually going to try and make a sound argument.

 

[albertwv]

Sabo is underestimated
I will always point out he used the most destructive and largest case use of Ryou haki we have seen to date in one piece when he destroyed the colleseum at dressora

Nah you have no actual proof Sabo knows Advanced CoA. Sabo is not that strong, just because he is the 2nd in command of the Revs means nothing. The Revs were pushed out of their own HQ by the BBP, this kinda made them seem weak, but I understand the BBP are not their main enemy so they chose to flee than fight. Even the 4 Commanders seem pretty weak. Especaially Betty who as the highest bounty for some reason.
Anyways Sabo is at best YC3

 

[Lord Traffy Law]

Nah you have no actual proof Sabo knows Advanced CoA. Sabo is not that strong, just because he is the 2nd in command of the Revs means nothing. The Revs were pushed out of their own HQ by the BBP, this kinda made them seem weak, but I understand the BBP are not their main enemy so they chose to flee than fight. Even the 4 Commanders seem pretty weak. Especaially Betty who as the highest bounty for some reason.
Anyways Sabo is at best YC3

literally it's the sam concept
RYOU ATTACKS THE CORE FROM INSIDE OUT

Sabo has done it on the largest scale we have seen so far, his haki attacked the core of the building and then it exploded from the inside out , he's a beast
oda just slyly dropped it then, but he's amazing, his mastery of COA is very very high
he seems firmly stronger than cracker , jack and pre-ts ace to me, and smoothie nor queen have impressed me more than him really

 

[albertwv]

literally it's the sam concept
RYOU ATTACKS THE CORE FROM INSIDE OUT

Sabo has done it on the largest scale we have seen so far, his haki attacked the core of the building and then it exploded from the inside out , he's a beast
oda just slyly dropped it then, but he's amazing, his mastery of COA is very very high
he seems firmly stronger than cracker , jack and pre-ts ace to me, and smoothie nor queen have impressed me more than him really

He may have it but until its confirmed can we really say. He is strong but I have difficult seeing him defeating Doffy or even Katakuri's FS.

 

[I Am Atomic]

I always thought Oda portrayed Ace = Sabo. 2 years ago, Ace was YC2 at least. So, it's safe to assume that 2 years ago, Sabo was that tier too. After TS and with a Logia DF, Sabo is easily YC1. At this point in the story, main characters need to be that level to make an impact in the final war against the WG. Even Kidd and Law are exceeding YC1 level now, much less Sabo.

 

[Lord Traffy Law]

I always thought Oda portrayed Ace = Sabo. 2 years ago, Ace was YC2 at least. So, it's safe to assume that 2 years ago, Sabo was that tier too. After TS and with a Logia DF, Sabo is easily YC1. At this point in the story, main characters need to be that level to make an impact in the final war against the WG. Even Kidd and Law are exceeding YC1 level now, much less Sabo.

Ehhh ace was very talented but that was pre-TS sabo , sabo didn’t stagnate , he should have gotten much stronger over 2 years
I don’t think ace showed anything special that makes him so above YC3 by much
Is his DF mastery above cracker doflamingo and cracker ? Nope
Is he more durable than jack ? Not to me
I think he hovered from yc3 to YC2 imo but not easy yc2

 

[Fox666]

I always thought Oda portrayed Ace = Sabo. 2 years ago, Ace was YC2 at least. So, it's safe to assume that 2 years ago, Sabo was that tier too. After TS and with a Logia DF, Sabo is easily YC1. At this point in the story, main characters need to be that level to make an impact in the final war against the WG. Even Kidd and Law are exceeding YC1 level now, much less Sabo.

I always thought Sabo was equal to Ace.

Does Sabo still need to be stronger than Zoro at this point in the series?

 

[grey matter]

Does Sabo still need to be stronger than Zoro at this point in the series?

Considering his role in the series, he should at least be current Zoro tier, which is YC1

For the revolutionaries to be at least somewhat of a threat to WG, Dragon must be Yonko tier and 2nd in command be YC1 tier or more, YC2 tier a bare minimum. Anything below that means they're a joke

 

[HereNThere]

Does Sabo still need to be stronger than Zoro at this point in the series?

Assuming he wants to also have a go at Akainu before Luffy, he definitely needs to be stronger than Zoro currently is.

 

[albertwv]

The thing is with Sabo, he hasnt shown us what other characters have, to prove us he is YC1. People like to claim he is YC1/+ because he is the #2 of the Revs and the Revs MUST be strong in order to pose a threat to the WG. But as we have seen they are not really fighters but rather manipulators in a way. They shed truth to the WG's lies which to the WG is a bigger threat than just regular pirates. The Yonko are a threat because of their power but the Revs because they are liberating countries from the WG. For all we know Dragon could be weaker than an admiral. But in our eyes, we WANT to see him be Yonko level.
So the Revs are not that strong in my eyes anymore. I thought they were but their 4 commanders and Ivankov disappointed me. Sabo to me is still young just like Ace was.
Ace was reckless and strong but he was YC3 at best. Vista and Jozu were more stronger than Ace, they showed haki and experience.

 

[I Am Atomic]

The thing is with Sabo, he hasnt shown us what other characters have, to prove us he is YC1. People like to claim he is YC1/+ because he is the #2 of the Revs and the Revs MUST be strong in order to pose a threat to the WG. But as we have seen they are not really fighters but rather manipulators in a way. They shed truth to the WG's lies which to the WG is a bigger threat than just regular pirates. The Yonko are a threat because of their power but the Revs because they are liberating countries from the WG. For all we know Dragon could be weaker than an admiral. But in our eyes, we WANT to see him be Yonko level.
So the Revs are not that strong in my eyes anymore. I thought they were but their 4 commanders and Ivankov disappointed me. Sabo to me is still young just like Ace was.
Ace was reckless and strong but he was YC3 at best. Vista and Jozu were more stronger than Ace, they showed haki and experience.

I personally didn't rank Sabo YC1 or above because he is 2nd in revolutionary army, but that helps my argument.

In the flashback, we saw that Ace and Sabo used to train together, and they were equal in strength.
After Sabo's accident, he was trained from a young age by veterans such as Kuma and Dragon. Ace didn't undergo training like Sabo (which puts him behind) but he obtained a DF, which again puts them as equals.

Now when I say Ace was YC2, I didn't say Jozu and Vista was weaker than him. I am simply stating his strength. Vista, Jozu could be YC1 in strength and Marco YC1+. But I am not going into that part of discussion. But let's say you are right, and Ace is YC3 at best, that's fine.

Next step is Ace Vs Yamato. They were equal in strength as shown by the fight. So, Ace's growth should be on par with Yamato or higher because Ace is younger right? Now what is Yamato's strength level? Many agree that it's YC1 at least. So, if Ace was alive he should be on that level at least, or even higher because his potential is higher.

Now we have confirmed that Ace should be YC1 at least, and we also know that Oda portrayed Ace is equal to Sabo. Therefore, I have come to the conclusion that Sabo is YC1 at least.

If there is any flaw in my logic, do tell me

 

[Lord Traffy Law]

I personally didn't rank Sabo YC1 or above because he is 2nd in revolutionary army, but that helps my argument.

In the flashback, we saw that Ace and Sabo used to train together, and they were equal in strength.
After Sabo's accident, he was trained from a young age by veterans such as Kuma and Dragon. Ace didn't undergo training like Sabo (which puts him behind) but he obtained a DF, which again puts them as equals.

Now when I say Ace was YC2, I didn't say Jozu and Vista was weaker than him. I am simply stating his strength. Vista, Jozu could be YC1 in strength and Marco YC1+. But I am not going into that part of discussion. But let's say you are right, and Ace is YC3 at best, that's fine.

Next step is Ace Vs Yamato. They were equal in strength as shown by the fight. So, Ace's growth should be on par with Yamato or higher because Ace is younger right? Now what is Yamato's strength level? Many agree that it's YC1 at least. So, if Ace was alive he should be on that level at least, or even higher because his potential is higher.

Now we have confirmed that Ace should be YC1 at least, and we also know that Oda portrayed Ace is equal to Sabo. Therefore, I have come to the conclusion that Sabo is YC1 at least.

If there is any flaw in my logic, do tell me

Ace vs Yamato isn’t exactly indicative that of how serious she got cause I’d say she seemed a bit less serious than ace , also had beef with kaido , had the cuffs on and didn’t use her DF abilities
Ace was strong and talented though just had the misfortune of facing hard counters in Blackbeard and akainu
People bring up ace and sabo being equals BUT 2 years is along time to develop and grow stronger , ace pre-TS strength is relevant to post timeskip sabo strength that Much
And everyone overlooks sabo using the largest scale application of Ryou in the manga we’ve seen

--- Double Post Merged, Nov 2, 2021, Original Post Date: Nov 2, 2021 ---

The thing is with Sabo, he hasnt shown us what other characters have, to prove us he is YC1. People like to claim he is YC1/+ because he is the #2 of the Revs and the Revs MUST be strong in order to pose a threat to the WG. But as we have seen they are not really fighters but rather manipulators in a way. They shed truth to the WG's lies which to the WG is a bigger threat than just regular pirates. The Yonko are a threat because of their power but the Revs because they are liberating countries from the WG. For all we know Dragon could be weaker than an admiral. But in our eyes, we WANT to see him be Yonko level.
So the Revs are not that strong in my eyes anymore. I thought they were but their 4 commanders and Ivankov disappointed me. Sabo to me is still young just like Ace was.
Ace was reckless and strong but he was YC3 at best. Vista and Jozu were more stronger than Ace, they showed haki and experience.

Again so what about rhe large scale Ryou use weve seen ,
Using pre TS ace to judge a post TS sabo is unfair when it’s clear that the young Gen is growing and developing

ehh this is one piece lineage matters a lot in strength almost every important child of a powerhouse is a power house
Roger -> Ace ( whitebeard and shanks both said he was powerful and had pirate king potential )
Garp -> ? -> luffy ( small rumors that garps child could be luffy mum tho ) but point stand luffy is incredibly powerful
Kaido -> Yamato
Big mum -> Katakuri
Dragon would be breaking a pattern and I dunno it just seems odd that if he was Garp’s son that he wouldn’t inherit his strength also considering he probably is the one that taught and trained sabo to get this strong ( he can use both forms of haki ) and it’s strongly implied either he or garp has king’s haki

And all commanders of the revolutionary army can use both forms of haki so at least they’re not scrubs

 

[I Am Atomic]

Ace vs Yamato isn’t exactly indicative that of how serious she got cause I’d say she seemed a bit less serious than ace , also had beef with kaido , had the cuffs on and didn’t use her DF abilities
Ace was strong and talented though just had the misfortune of facing hard counters in Blackbeard and akainu
People bring up ace and sabo being equals BUT 2 years is along time to develop and grow stronger , ace pre-TS strength is relevant to post timeskip sabo strength that Much
And everyone overlooks sabo using the largest scale application of Ryou in the manga we’ve seen

Are you agreeing with me or what? I do not understand this post.

I am agreeing Sabo is at least YC1. And my post was replying to Albert

 

[grey matter]

I personally didn't rank Sabo YC1 or above because he is 2nd in revolutionary army, but that helps my argument.

In the flashback, we saw that Ace and Sabo used to train together, and they were equal in strength.
After Sabo's accident, he was trained from a young age by veterans such as Kuma and Dragon. Ace didn't undergo training like Sabo (which puts him behind) but he obtained a DF, which again puts them as equals.

Now when I say Ace was YC2, I didn't say Jozu and Vista was weaker than him. I am simply stating his strength. Vista, Jozu could be YC1 in strength and Marco YC1+. But I am not going into that part of discussion. But let's say you are right, and Ace is YC3 at best, that's fine.

Next step is Ace Vs Yamato. They were equal in strength as shown by the fight. So, Ace's growth should be on par with Yamato or higher because Ace is younger right? Now what is Yamato's strength level? Many agree that it's YC1 at least. So, if Ace was alive he should be on that level at least, or even higher because his potential is higher.

Now we have confirmed that Ace should be YC1 at least, and we also know that Oda portrayed Ace is equal to Sabo. Therefore, I have come to the conclusion that Sabo is YC1 at least.

If there is any flaw in my logic, do tell me

I somewhat agree with that logic.

I didn't really see Sabo as YC1/YC1+ until it Lord Traffy pointed out the extend of his ryo haki. That alone should put him at YC1 for me

Some points. Not necessarily that I disagree with the points or it's conclusions, but I don't think the logic is quite sound here:
1. I don't really know about directly scaling Ace's growth to Sabo's growth. Ace probably has more genetic potential than Sabo. But Sabo also had better training, so idk. Point being, it's hard to relatively scale. Seems like a stretch to me to assume they grew similarly, for what, 10 years?

2. Regarding Ace vs Yamato.
Yamato didn't use her transformation IIRC. Which means Ace only scales to her base form.
But still, this is beyond impressive. When the fight happened, Yamato was in her mid 20s and likely was close to her peak. Ace however, was arguably even younger than beginning of series Luffy when it happened! And was in the first year of his pirate career.
I honestly rank Yamato below King.......between King and Queen. Reason being, I'm fairly certain Kaido held back against Yamato. And fighting for a while against Kaido is something Zoro is able to accomplish as well. Regardless, fighting on par with mid 20s base Yamato while in his 17s is impressive. In the next 3 years, with his growth + statements from top dogs saying he had potential to become pirate king, he should've definitely been a solid YC2 tier by the time he died.

I think Sabo should be at least pre timeskip Ace tier, which would land him in YC2 tier at minimum.

 

[Lord Traffy Law]

I somewhat agree with that logic.

I didn't really see Sabo as YC1/YC1+ until it Lord Traffy pointed out the extend of his ryo haki. That alone should put him at YC1 for me

Some points. Not necessarily that I disagree with the points or it's conclusions, but I don't think the logic is quite sound here:
1. I don't really know about directly scaling Ace's growth to Sabo's growth. Ace probably has more genetic potential than Sabo. But Sabo also had better training, so idk. Point being, it's hard to relatively scale. Seems like a stretch to me to assume they grew similarly, for what, 10 years?

2. Regarding Ace vs Yamato.
Yamato didn't use her transformation IIRC. Which means Ace only scales to her base form.
But still, this is beyond impressive. When the fight happened, Yamato was in her mid 20s and likely was close to her peak. Ace however, was arguably even younger than beginning of series Luffy when it happened! And was in the first year of his pirate career.
I honestly rank Yamato below King.......between King and Queen. Reason being, I'm fairly certain Kaido held back against Yamato. And fighting for a while against Kaido is something Zoro is able to accomplish as well. Regardless, fighting on par with mid 20s base Yamato while in his 17s is impressive. In the next 3 years, with his growth + statements from top dogs saying he had potential to become pirate king, he should've definitely been a solid YC2 tier by the time he died.

I think Sabo should be at least pre timeskip Ace tier, which would land him in YC2 tier at minimum.

The thing is Yamato has show advanced armamanent and advanced conquerors haki and has a superior DF ( mythical > ancient ) , and did tank conquerors haki coated attacks from kaido
That’s above anything king has demonstrated so far in the series

 

[grey matter]

The thing is Yamato has show advanced armamanent and advanced conquerors haki and has a superior DF ( mythical > ancient ) , and did tank conquerors haki coated attacks from kaido
That’s above anything king has demonstrated so far in the series

I think current Zoro can accomplish all that Yamato did (even assuming Kaido was not holding back against Yamato, which he most likely was). In fact, offensively, he even did much more. While defensively, we can't be sure. Zoro went down faster, but he also tanked a combo attack from Kaido+Big Mom.
And King seems slightly stronger than current Zoro (Zoro will end up stronger by the end of the fight, but that would be him growing)
As for having better Devil Fruit, King's base is stronger than Yamato's, which makes up for his weaker DF.

I'm not saying King can accomplish what Yamato did, to do this against Kaido, you need conqueror's haki, which we haven't seen from King yet. There is no way King can accomplish what Zoro did either (assuming he doesn't have conqeuror's haki), but this doesn't mean he's not stronger than Zoro (at least for now)
Still on overall stats, I'd say Yamato and King are comparable, with King having an edge. Conqueror's haki is a deciding factor only against Kaido as far as we know. For the rest, having strong armament haki is good enough.