One Piece Power Level Discussion Thread

[goldb]

Ground Rules for the Power Level Discussion Thread
​

As always, please follow the guidelines set by the Forum Rules that apply across the board.

It's important that discussions from a current chapter are spoiler tagged until 24h have passed from an english release.

• For the sake of constructive discussion, where and when possible please quote/ source any information you provide. Particularly when it comes to conversations carried over from other threads.
• Avoid passive agressive posts, sly remarks or baiting/trolling. You can certainly have fun or disagree without it being at someone's expense.
• Only use anime examples that are canon and as means to provide clarity to pages in the manga. Any other anime material is otherwise non-canon and should only be referenced if it can be proved that the mangaka had approved it.
• We will strive to avoid repetitive discussions and any extensive battle topics will be guided to the Davy Back fight to existing threads or new ones can be made there.

As of now these topics are shelved due to repetitiveness or until the manga can present us with material to further discussions:

1. Shanks v Mihawk
2. Hand to hand fighters > Swordsmen
3. Zoro > Luffy
4. Zoro v Sanji
5. Is Smoker a top 30 character?
6. Mihawk's rank within the story
7. Law having CoC currently.
8. Katakuri > Kaido/Luffy/Etc.

If you wish to continue any of these discussion and remove it from the list, you will need to provide manga material as proof. If there's also anything you think we've covered numerous times, let me know and I'll update the list.

This is the only warning there'll be regarding these ground rules, anything no adhering will be removed. So please just check your posts before posting them.

 

[grey matter]

I agree that kata was still stronger than luffy even tho luffy “won” the fight
I’m just saying they seemed pretty comparable and luffy gets much stronger after a hard fought victory
Luffy probably already had comparable speed durability(in gear 4) from the jump against kata just couldn’t hit him cause of FS , cause Everytime Kara’s FS went left luffy suddenly looked very comparable to kata

I agree

What do you think about Kaido one shotting G4 Luffy with Thunder Baigo in his base? Outlier or not?
Seems like everyone is tanking Kaido's attacks now. Law tanked Thunder Baigo from hybrid Kaido, and it doesn't seem to have done much damage to Law

 

[XXGenesis]

katakuri didnt let luffy win, who thinks that has bad interpretation and need to read again, luffy lvl on the end of fight was the same lvl as kata, luffy took insane amount of damage from start of fight where he was weaker than kata, and in the end receive the fatal wound, and managed to tie with kata even with that amount of insane damage, so wano luffy for sure would win easier, when luffy climbed the hole kata was still down, the guy could barely stand up to say last words for luffy and luffy was already in the pose to continue the fight

No the fight is open to mutiple perceptions. Which is kool and little dangerous. Because according to you it’s bad interpretation, which it isn’t you are choosing the lowest hanging fruit of interpretation…

Katakuri let Luffy win; & went as far to even the playing field by hurting himself. Katakuri only lost the battle of being perfect never fallling on his back;

Writing the analysis is a waste if you carry the simple view point that, Luffy won.

 

[M3J]

katakuri didnt let luffy win, who thinks that has bad interpretation and need to read again, luffy lvl on the end of fight was the same lvl as kata, luffy took insane amount of damage from start of fight where he was weaker than kata, and in the end receive the fatal wound, and managed to tie with kata even with that amount of insane damage, so wano luffy for sure would win easier, when luffy climbed the hole kata was still down, the guy could barely stand up to say last words for luffy and luffy was already in the pose to continue the fight

Too bad for you, manga makes it clear that Katakuri did let Luffy win. You're the one that needs to read again, the conversation between Katakuri and Brulee makes it clear.

 

[albertwv]

I agree

What do you think about Kaido one shotting G4 Luffy with Thunder Baigo in his base? Outlier or not?
Seems like everyone is tanking Kaido's attacks now. Law tanked Thunder Baigo from hybrid Kaido, and it doesn't seem to have done much damage to Law

Consistency is thrown out the window in the Wano arc. The Yonkos were introduced as these untouchable badasses that could stomp all over YCs (Luffy, Queen) but the fights in the rooftop (9RS, 5 SNs, and Yama) have shown us otherwise. Yeah of course, the Luffy's side got stronger over time with training or etc, but was it possible to make such a huge jump in a small timeframe?
Kaido OHKO G4 Luffy at the beginning of Wano was incredible, Luffy at that time was YC2. Now Luffy, in the same arc can fight almost evenly with Kaido.
Not only Luffy but Law Kid and Zolo can survive a hit from Yonkos.

So I believe Oda made Kaido and BM too strong, hyped them up soo much that he had knock them down a few to make the storyline make sense. He did that to Jack as well. Jack who lasted 5 days nonstop figthing Cat and Dog, gets low diffed by Dog in Sulong form. We dont even get to see the fight!


Going back to WCI, Kata vs Luffy, it was obvious that Kata >>> Luffy, even when Luffy learned FS and Snakeman, Kata allowed him to win. I would not dare say until Luffy learned Ryou did Luffy finally surprass Kata, still would be a high diff win for Luffy.
Rmember, Kata was pummeling the shit out of Luffy, until Kata allowed himself to take a break let his guard down did Luffy manage to injure him in G4, but Kata quickly gained his composure and pummeled the shit out of G4 Luffy. Kata injured himself to give Luffy a handicap and even then Kata won. Snakeman was impressive but was not fast enough for Kata's FS.

 

[aberick]

Too bad for you, manga makes it clear that Katakuri did let Luffy win. You're the one that needs to read again, the conversation between Katakuri and Brulee makes it clear.

No, how it makes clear that kata let luffy win? o.0, im showing facts here:
1 - luffy woke up first and climb the hole.
2 - he just stand up to say last words, the guy could not even stand up when brule was taking care of him.
3 - you said that the conversation between brulee and kata makes it clear, i guess you didnt understand that the conversation was about the myth that his
back never touched the ground , which is a lie, and not about the fact he never lose bro...

 

[Pirate Queen]

Kata definitely let Luffy win. As well as Katakuri ensuing his own defeat by underestimating Luffy multiple times times.

To everyone that matters, including Katakuri: Luffy won the fight. But the context of the victory calls the legitimacy of the win into question.

--- Double Post Merged, Nov 15, 2021, Original Post Date: Nov 15, 2021 ---

Oda explained it very clearly that Luffy wins when the ideas of his enemy are crushed, not just their bodies. Luffy defeated Katakuri mentally, but not physically... but it was still what mattered.

 

[aberick]

No the fight is open to mutiple perceptions. Which is kool and little dangerous. Because according to you it’s bad interpretation, which it isn’t you are choosing the lowest hanging fruit of interpretation…

Katakuri let Luffy win; & went as far to even the playing field by hurting himself. Katakuri only lost the battle of being perfect never fallling on his back;

Writing the analysis is a waste if you carry the simple view point that, Luffy won.

First, the discussion here is "who was strong at the end of fight", you dont took in count the whole context, kata did a fatal wound because of flampe, so because of that he hurt himself, it was not his merit bro, saying that he hurt himself, like, comon? the guy did the same damage to luffy because of flampe shot, and luffy was ALOT more injured than katakuri, think about that, a guy who already was alot weaker and damaged got a fatal wound, the other which is in a pretty much better state get the same fatal damage, will be worse for luffy or kata? xD its not difficult to understand that, and even so luffy managed to tie with him in the end (or win) , now imagine the luffy in the end of fight 100% and kata 100%, luffy would take alot less damage because of his FS become good at the point that he could do some damages to kata and would win easier...

 

[Pirate Queen]

If Luffy by the end of Kata fight fought a fresh Katakuri. LUFFY would have won outright... but that's not the manga we got. Luffy needed to develop his CoO.

--- Double Post Merged, Nov 15, 2021, Original Post Date: Nov 15, 2021 ---

First, the discussion here is "who was strong at the end of fight", you dont take in count the whole context, kata did a fatal wound because of flampe, so because of that he hurt himself, it was not his merit bro, saying that he hurt himself, like, comon? the guy did the same damage to luffy because of flampe shot, and luffy was ALOT more injured than katakuri, think about that, a guy who already was alot weaker and damaged got a fatal wound, the other which is in a pretty much better state get the same fatal damage, will be worse for luffy or kata? xD its not difficult to understand that, and even so luffy managed to tie with him in the end (or win) , now imagine the luffy in the end of fight 100% and kata 100%, luffy would take alot less damage because of his FS become good at the point that he could do some damages to kata and would win easier...

I can see you a powerful supporter of the Great Luffy-sama but your not being honest about the Kata fight....

But I agree with your last point

 

[XXGenesis]

First, the discussion here is "who was strong at the end of fight", you dont took in count the whole context, kata did a fatal wound because of flampe, so because of that he hurt himself, it was not his merit bro, saying that he hurt himself, like, comon? the guy did the same damage to luffy because of flampe shot, and luffy was ALOT more injured than katakuri, think about that, a guy who already was alot weaker and damaged got a fatal wound, the other which is in a pretty much better state get the same fatal damage, will be worse for luffy or kata? xD its not difficult to understand that, and even so luffy managed to tie with him in the end (or win) , now imagine the luffy in the end of fight 100% and kata 100%, luffy would take alot less damage because of his FS become good at the point that he could do some damages to kata and would win easier...

Luffy won because he’s the main character he has to win. Let’s get that clear because it’s called PIS= Plot Induced Stupidity; Luffy should have been suffocated but he ate his way out the Mochi…Katakuri eager to eat his donuts didn’t do a thorough job of finishing Luffy…….

Luffy ran away with Brulee for hours….

IF If was a 1/5 we all be drunk, If is a pretty what If? Fan fic, not what happened.

 

[Lord Traffy Law]

I agree

What do you think about Kaido one shotting G4 Luffy with Thunder Baigo in his base? Outlier or not?
Seems like everyone is tanking Kaido's attacks now. Law tanked Thunder Baigo from hybrid Kaido, and it doesn't seem to have done much damage to Law

i think folks gotta realize law has levelled the hell up , he went from barely damaging doffy to getting solid hits on kaido and big mum ,his power has spiked ALOT, of all the suprenovas he's the only one who hasn't been knocked out or gotten dead rights

 

[M3J]

No, how it makes clear that kata let luffy win? o.0, im showing facts here:
1 - luffy woke up first and climb the hole.
2 - he just stand up to say last words, the guy could not even stand up when brule was taking care of him.
3 - you said that the conversation between brulee and kata makes it clear, i guess you didnt understand that the conversation was about the myth that his
back never touched the ground , which is a lie, and not about the fact he never lose bro...

Katakuri wasn't knocked out, and instead of falling one way, he chose to fall the other way. The convo implies that Katakuri could have kept on going, especially if he was able to change the way he fell.

 

[aberick]

Katakuri wasn't knocked out, and instead of falling one way, he chose to fall the other way. The convo implies that Katakuri could have kept on going, especially if he was able to change the way he fell.

its hard, i show facts and you come with "he wasnt knocked out" ofc, he was just resting in the ground waiting for luffy climb the hole, what an argument, "he could keep going", yes, i saw how he was looking when luffy was already ready to continue the fight with his posture, kata looks like he could not continue, common, look his eyes, but whatever, its impossible to deal with these weird interpretations...

 

[Lord Traffy Law]

Ehhh katakuri falling on his back kinda symbolized more of him giving up the image of being the perfect dude and letting go of that pretense , I think that was more obvious , bruleee did the whole keeping up the perfect image
He did kinda “lose”

 

[AmitDS]

"Benn Beckman is Yonkou level"
"Rayleigh is PK level"

Anyway, on-topic, it's pretty much established that Katakuri let Luffy win. It makes sense narratively as well when looking at the following Wano arc, considering this version of Luffy went on to lose to Kaido (got one-shot) at the beginning of Wano and eventually had to power up again (many times) to fight Kaido on the rooftop later.
Oda has been very smart not putting Luffy up against any YCs in Wano (that Queen jail interaction doesn't count) and it preserves Katakuri's hype from the previous arc. It would've been a power-scaling nightmare if Luffy was even seen trading blows or actually struggling against a YC when he's supposed to be taking on Kaido (anyone remember that Bat-man filler fiasco a couple months ago lol?).

 

[grey matter]

Consistency is thrown out the window in the Wano arc. The Yonkos were introduced as these untouchable badasses that could stomp all over YCs (Luffy, Queen) but the fights in the rooftop (9RS, 5 SNs, and Yama) have shown us otherwise. Yeah of course, the Luffy's side got stronger over time with training or etc, but was it possible to make such a huge jump in a small timeframe?
Kaido OHKO G4 Luffy at the beginning of Wano was incredible, Luffy at that time was YC2. Now Luffy, in the same arc can fight almost evenly with Kaido.
Not only Luffy but Law Kid and Zolo can survive a hit from Yonkos.

So I believe Oda made Kaido and BM too strong, hyped them up soo much that he had knock them down a few to make the storyline make sense. He did that to Jack as well. Jack who lasted 5 days nonstop figthing Cat and Dog, gets low diffed by Dog in Sulong form. We dont even get to see the fight!


Going back to WCI, Kata vs Luffy, it was obvious that Kata >>> Luffy, even when Luffy learned FS and Snakeman, Kata allowed him to win. I would not dare say until Luffy learned Ryou did Luffy finally surprass Kata, still would be a high diff win for Luffy.
Rmember, Kata was pummeling the shit out of Luffy, until Kata allowed himself to take a break let his guard down did Luffy manage to injure him in G4, but Kata quickly gained his composure and pummeled the shit out of G4 Luffy. Kata injured himself to give Luffy a handicap and even then Kata won. Snakeman was impressive but was not fast enough for Kata's FS.

Yep. Everyone and their mom is tanking Yonko attacks at this point.

i think folks gotta realize law has levelled the hell up , he went from barely damaging doffy to getting solid hits on kaido and big mum ,his power has spiked ALOT, of all the suprenovas he's the only one who hasn't been knocked out or gotten dead rights

There is a limit to the growth dude
Beginning of Wano Luffy was borderline YC1 level. Even if Law at the rooftop was stronger than beginning of Wano Luffy all together (lets say, solid YC1), I find it extremely hard to believe Law is as tanky as beginning of Wano G4 Luffy who was brimming with armament haki, let alone leagues tankier than him (because he's be real here, Luffy is one of the tankiest out there even in his base, G4 makes him far more tankier, and Law isn't a particularly tanky boi).
Because, beginning of Wano G4 Luffy got one shot by base Kaido. Rooftop Law tanked the same attack from Hybrid Kaido without any real issue. For this to be consistent, rooftop Law's tankiness should be MUCH higher than beginning of Wano G4 Luffy.

For me rooftop Law was YC1, with awakening against BM a YC1+

Zoro tanked and blocked some attacks from Kaido and BM as well, including a combo attack (which did break his bones to be fair, but still tanked and went onto fight for quite a while later). And Zoro is now getting extreme diff'd by King, a YC1


Let's be real here. There is virtually no consistency in Wano arc at this point.
Either what happened to Luffy in beginning of arc was an outlier. Or everything happening in raid is an outlier

 

[M3J]

I'd love to see a rematch between Luffy and Katakuri, or a what-if without Future Sight, as I think Luffy would have the advantage.

 

[grey matter]

I'd love to see a rematch between Luffy and Katakuri, or a what-if without Future Sight, as I think Luffy would have the advantage.

Current Luffy mid diff Katakuri

Without future sight, high-extreme diff maybe

Luffy would win regardless IMO

 

[Fox666]

Going back to WCI, Kata vs Luffy, it was obvious that Kata >>> Luffy, even when Luffy learned FS and Snakeman, Kata allowed him to win. I would not dare say until Luffy learned Ryou did Luffy finally surprass Kata, still would be a high diff win for Luffy.
Rmember, Kata was pummeling the shit out of Luffy, until Kata allowed himself to take a break let his guard down did Luffy manage to injure him in G4, but Kata quickly gained his composure and pummeled the shit out of G4 Luffy. Kata injured himself to give Luffy a handicap and even then Kata won. Snakeman was impressive but was not fast enough for Kata's FS.

Didn't Katakuri injured himself because his simblings interfered in the fight? Supposedly he only made it fair

 

[Lord Traffy Law]

I'd love to see a rematch between Luffy and Katakuri, or a what-if without Future Sight, as I think Luffy would have the advantage.

Luffy mid or high diffs him lmao
Conqueror and advanced armament is a worlds difference in attack power , that’s minus his significant base amp

 

[grey matter]

Didn't Katakuri injured himself because his simblings interfered in the fight? Supposedly he only made it fair

Yes, but the entire narrative of the fight was that Katakuri was literally a better Luffy. Better haki, better stats and better DF (to demonstrate it, Katakuri literally replicated Luffy's fighting style and overwhelmed him with it).

But Luffy had the stronger ideals and will.

And in the end, Katakuri submitted to Luffy's ideals, and as a show of respect/submission gave up and made sure to fall on his back.
We could see it later from his conversation with Brule, that he could've continued fighting.

Current Luffy is of course superior though. No question about it