One Piece Power Level Discussion Thread

[goldb]

Ground Rules for the Power Level Discussion Thread
​

As always, please follow the guidelines set by the Forum Rules that apply across the board.

It's important that discussions from a current chapter are spoiler tagged until 24h have passed from an english release.

• For the sake of constructive discussion, where and when possible please quote/ source any information you provide. Particularly when it comes to conversations carried over from other threads.
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• We will strive to avoid repetitive discussions and any extensive battle topics will be guided to the Davy Back fight to existing threads or new ones can be made there.

As of now these topics are shelved due to repetitiveness or until the manga can present us with material to further discussions:

1. Shanks v Mihawk
2. Hand to hand fighters > Swordsmen
3. Zoro > Luffy
4. Zoro v Sanji
5. Is Smoker a top 30 character?
6. Mihawk's rank within the story
7. Law having CoC currently.
8. Katakuri > Kaido/Luffy/Etc.

If you wish to continue any of these discussion and remove it from the list, you will need to provide manga material as proof. If there's also anything you think we've covered numerous times, let me know and I'll update the list.

This is the only warning there'll be regarding these ground rules, anything no adhering will be removed. So please just check your posts before posting them.

 

[LadyVados]

"Benn Beckman is Yonkou level"
"Rayleigh is PK level"

The former is confirmed in a databook and the latter is something that most of the OP community believes and something I've heard from even non-Zoro fans. Rayleigh being on the same level as Roger is a pretty commonly held opinion in the OP fandom.

--- Double Post Merged, Nov 16, 2021, Original Post Date: Nov 16, 2021 ---

Current Luffy is of course superior though. No question about it

I think Luffy was weaker in WCI, he equalled him after getting AdCoA, and surpassed him when got CoC coating.

 

[I Am Atomic]

I agree with Katakuri let Luffy win. Every situation and exchange, Katakuri was superior. One only needs to read the panels between Luffy Snakeman Vs Kata to see that Katakuri dominated even Luffy's Snakeman. If you don't remember, just count the punches. For every punch Luffy landed (blocked by Katakuri), Katakuri landed 2 more (not blocked by Luffy). Think from Oda's pov, he drew the panels. He knew what he was drawing. If it was even, he would have drawn that way.

Even after all that, Katakuri was standing when Luffy came up. Then he asked Luffy a question "Will you come back?" And Luffy's response is what made Katakuri give up. Like many said above, Luffy defeated Katakuri with his will and ideals.

Also remember Luffy and Rayleigh flashback? Luffy's CoO is about reading people's emotions. That's why Luffy said "it depends on the guy I meet". Luffy was lucky enough to meet Katakuri.

It's probably my favourite fight after Luffy vs Lucci

 

[aberick]

Luffy tie(win) against katakuri even after getting damaged alot in start of fight because he didnt have FS, luffy with advanced armament would mid diff katakuri if he start with snake man, guys, luffy throw so much attacks against kaidou in bound man and did like 0 damage to him, when he got advanced armament in one single blow he could do more damage than all these atacks, now with CoC Coating he would definitely easilyyy defeat katakuri, not a single attack from kata would tie or win against luffy with advanced or coc coating...

 

[Lord Traffy Law]

Yeah Oda is a lil inconsistent
No way kinemon should be able to be same level of tanky to take an attack that knocked out gear 4 luffy
Part of it is PIS

 

[Crimson Ice]

Luffy is NOT Yonko level, he will only become Yonko level in the Blackbeard arc. Beating Kaido in a 50 v 1 doesn't make you Yonko level (Assuming Luffy wins, which is a big if)

Not to mention an actual Yonko level- Kaido couldn't low-diff Zoro...

--- Double Post Merged, Nov 14, 2021 ---

For every unfair advantage Zoro has got, Luffy has got 10 more. Stop being a hypocrite.

Also your pfp has reminded me of another one- being the underage beloved of 1 of the 7 warlords of the sea, who has saved him multiple times.

--- Double Post Merged, Nov 14, 2021 ---

Since I think Zoro and Sanji will win their fights low diff once they get their new power-ups, I have Zoro at Kizaru level and Sanji at Marco level.

Oh boy, Luffy is Yonko level, the sky-splitting was a clear indicator of that. And boy, you are dumb as rocks. Kaido is stomping Zoro, forget a low-dif.

 

[Lord Traffy Law]

Oh boy, Luffy is Yonko level, the sky-splitting was a clear indicator of that. And boy, you are dumb as rocks. Kaido is stomping Zoro, forget a low-dif.

I don’t think luffy is quite yonkou level yet
We got those takes after he first equipped with conquerors haki and he lost soon after
Kaido has beaten him twice
Kaido is lifting an island
Has taken hits from law the supernovas and the scabbards as well as Yamato and he’s still going
He actually does present a challenge for yo them
But 1 on 1 they still mid to high diffing luffy

 

[LadyVados]

Kaido is stomping Zoro, forget a low-dif.

Reread 1010

 

[XXGenesis]

Luffy is Yonkou lv. Why be so resistant to it?! It was clear when he parted the heaven with the Haki clash.

BlackBeard is also Yonkou lv…Doesn’t mean he can 1 vs 1 Kaido.

Kaido is injured and weakened. Luffy IMO wouldn’t be able to win if Both of them were fresh. But he can do it while Kaido is injured.

A YC1 or YC1+ is not strong enough to defeat Kaido even if he’s weakened. They can only injure him, but not fight equally on his level

 

[LadyVados]

BlackBeard is also Yonkou lv…Doesn’t mean he can 1 vs 1 Kaido.

That ruins the point of tierlists, when people say Yonko level, they mean someone as strong as Kaido/BM/Shanks. Using this logic if Buggy becomes a Yonko tomorrow people will say he's Yonko level.

--- Double Post Merged, Nov 16, 2021, Original Post Date: Nov 16, 2021 ---

A YC1 or YC1+ is not strong enough to defeat Kaido even if he’s weakened. They can only injure him, but not fight equally on his level

I disagree, Jozu was fighting equally with the Yonko level Aokiji for a fairly long time.

 

[Luke Beifong]

I don’t think luffy is quite yonkou level yet
We got those takes after he first equipped with conquerors haki and he lost soon after
Kaido has beaten him twice
Kaido is lifting an island
Has taken hits from law the supernovas and the scabbards as well as Yamato and he’s still going
He actually does present a challenge for yo them
But 1 on 1 they still mid to high diffing luffy

Well, if Luffy isn’t a Yonko tier yet, I prefer to put him in a Yonko- tier instead of a YC1+. I don’t see Luffy having a high difficulty fight against any of the YC1. With FS, advanced armament Haki and advanced CoC, Luffy’s much stronger than any of them. Or you think that a clash against Katakuri, King or Marco can spilt the sky? Don’t know, for me calling Luffy a YC tier, even if it’s a YC1+ doesn’t feels right you know?

 

[grey matter]

Yeah Oda is a lil inconsistent
No way kinemon should be able to be same level of tanky to take an attack that knocked out gear 4 luffy
Part of it is PIS

Not just a lil. A LOT

I think we should just accept that Kaido one shotting G4 Luffy, a borderline YC1 tier, in beginning of Wano is an outlier.
Or else, we will have to argue that everything in raid are outliers lmao

Luffy is Yonkou lv. Why be so resistant to it?! It was clear when he parted the heaven with the Haki clash.

BlackBeard is also Yonkou lv…Doesn’t mean he can 1 vs 1 Kaido.

Kaido is injured and weakened. Luffy IMO wouldn’t be able to win if Both of them were fresh. But he can do it while Kaido is injured.

A YC1 or YC1+ is not strong enough to defeat Kaido even if he’s weakened. They can only injure him, but not fight equally on his level

What makes him Yonko level?
Luffy will likely extreme diff him after the insane gauntlet he went through.
The fight starts with Luffy rested + relatively fresh (eating up months worth of food), while Kaido exhausted and barely able to keep Onigashima afloat


For me, that makes Luffy a solid admiral tier, i.e say Kizaru level. Nothing to scoff at, pretty powerful in it's own right. But it's too soon for him to be Yonko tier when there are like 4 arcs still left in the series.

We don't know anything about current BB, but yeah, I also think Kaido is superior.
Just that I think BB will give Kaido a high diff, while current Luffy give him a mid diff

That ruins the point of tierlists, when people say Yonko level, they mean someone as strong as Kaido/BM/Shanks. Using this logic if Buggy becomes a Yonko tomorrow people will say he's Yonko level.

Nah.

WB and Roger were also "Yonko tiers". They would high diff Kaido

Kaido and BB are both Yonkos, but IMO Kaido high diff BB

I disagree, Jozu was fighting equally with the Yonko level Aokiji for a fairly long time.

Aoikiji is (upper ends of )admiral level, not Yonko level.

WB after stabs and multiple injuries + heart attack + starting sick > Akainu >= Aokiji

 

[Lord Traffy Law]

Well, if Luffy isn’t a Yonko tier yet, I prefer to put him in a Yonko- tier instead of a YC1+. I don’t see Luffy having a high difficulty fight against any of the YC1. With FS, advanced armament Haki and advanced CoC, Luffy’s much stronger than any of them. Or you think that a clash against Katakuri, King or Marco can spilt the sky? Don’t know, for me calling Luffy a YC tier, even if it’s a YC1+ doesn’t feels right you know?

Depends the likes of Marco Yamato and Ben Beckmann(?) are the guys I see as YC1+ , and I definitely see him extreme or high diffing them in a fight as it stands

Not just a lil. A LOT

I think we should just accept that Kaido one shotting G4 Luffy, a borderline YC1 tier, in beginning of Wano is an outlier.
Or else, we will have to argue that everything in raid are outliers lmao



What makes him Yonko level?
Luffy will likely extreme diff him after the insane gauntlet he went through.
The fight starts with Luffy rested + relatively fresh (eating up months worth of food), while Kaido exhausted and barely able to keep Onigashima afloat


For me, that makes Luffy a solid admiral tier, i.e say Kizaru level. Nothing to scoff at, pretty powerful in it's own right. But it's too soon for him to be Yonko tier when there are like 4 arcs still left in the series.

We don't know anything about current BB, but yeah, I also think Kaido is superior.
Just that I think BB will give Kaido a high diff, while current Luffy give him a mid diff



Nah.

WB and Roger were also "Yonko tiers". They would high diff Kaido

Kaido and BB are both Yonkos, but IMO Kaido high diff BB



Aoikiji is (upper ends of )admiral level, not Yonko level.

WB after stabs and multiple injuries + heart attack + starting sick > Akainu >= Aokiji

Im firmly in the camp that the one shot Oda used was a mistake or an outlier. It should have been a vicious barrage imo. I think he wanted to hype up kaido but I still think the one shot was excessive
I’ll always push back cause imo akainu dealt way way worse damage to whitebeard yhan whitebeard dished to him
In regards to kizaru no idea how strong he is but he came out unscathed from the war and he had moments ( where he pinned whitebeard Bisento) and more where he did sensational , and him willing to go to wano to tango with big mum or kaido confidently

 

[LadyVados]

WB and Roger were also "Yonko tiers". They would high diff Kaido

Most people in the fandom consider them PK tier

 

[Lord Traffy Law]

Most people in the fandom consider them PK tier

I put Sengoku garp shiki big mum kaido shanks roger rocks in the same tier (oden potentially depending on how you view his W over kaido, people forget on panel that he was noted to have become Many times stronger during his journey with roger and wb )
Can’t put PK cause roger actually didn’t defeat them in 1 on 1s to become PK even , I do think he rocks garp and wb are the strongest but still in the same tier

 

[LadyVados]

I put Sengoku garp shiki big mum kaido shanks roger rocks in the same tier (oden potentially depending on how you view his W over kaido, people forget on panel that he was noted to have become Many times stronger during his journey with roger and wb )
Can’t put PK cause roger actually didn’t defeat them in 1 on 1s to become PK even , I do think he rocks garp and wb are the strongest but still in the same tier

That's fair too, just saying a lot of people think they belong in their own tier.

 

[Lord Traffy Law]

That's fair too, just saying a lot of people think they belong in their own tier.

Understandably but I really feel Oda is emphasizing having the right crew and things like the voice of all things means it doesn’t just preclude strength ( or things like right crew members even ) it’s not just strength

 

[grey matter]

Depends the likes of Marco Yamato and Ben Beckmann(?) are the guys I see as YC1+ , and I definitely see him extreme or high diffing them in a fight as it stands

Is Yamato YC1+ though?
I'm fairly certain Kaido was holding back, and her base around Ulti level.

Ben Beckman is most likely solid admiral tier based on hype (databook) and portrayal based on inherited will. I mean, inherited will of Roger -> Shanks -> Luffy.
Rayleigh was borderline Yonko level, if not low Yonko level. When Roger was top tier Yonko level.
Same for Oden/WB
Zoro is a lot closer to Luffy than typical YC1 (King/Katakuri) is to their captains.
So, I expect Ben Beckman to be admiral tier, since Shanks is a mid level Yonko

Im firmly in the camp that the one shot Oda used was a mistake or an outlier. It should have been a vicious barrage imo. I think he wanted to hype up kaido but I still think the one shot was excessive

Agree

I’ll always push back cause imo akainu dealt way way worse damage to whitebeard yhan whitebeard dished to him

Sure.

Yet, it was WB who won that fight.
WB was standing and kicking around, fought countless marines since then and almost defeated Blackbeard; while Akainu was KO'd. Luckily for Akainu, he slid into the ground and fell off, before WB could finish him.

You could say WB high-extreme diff'd that fight

If a WB, who was injured, sick and nerfed (heart attack), while old and far from his peak to begin with, could high-extreme diff Akainu. I have no doubt that Kaido or Shanks could mid-high diff Akainu

In regards to kizaru no idea how strong he is but he came out unscathed from the war and he had moments ( where he pinned whitebeard Bisento) and more where he did sensational , and him willing to go to wano to tango with big mum or kaido confidently

Maybe.
But IMO Kizaru < Aokiji and Akainu for now

He can definitely put up a fight against Yonkos, but will lose.

Most people in the fandom consider them PK tier

I agree they're a different class from regular Yonkos, but not too far off either.

IMO Kaido, at the very least, would give Roger and peak WB lower ends of high diff

I put Sengoku garp shiki big mum kaido shanks roger rocks in the same tier (oden potentially depending on how you view his W over kaido, people forget on panel that he was noted to have become Many times stronger during his journey with roger and wb )
Can’t put PK cause roger actually didn’t defeat them in 1 on 1s to become PK even , I do think he rocks garp and wb are the strongest but still in the same tier

I don't think so.

WB, even while old (bar sickness of course), was recognized even by Sengoku and admirals, as the strongest pirate.
Connect the dude to medical equipment, and his haki rivals that of Shanks, someone who became Yonko purely by haki and nothing else.

Peak WB, and Roger/Garp who scales to him directly, are definitely a cut above the rest

As for Oden, I put him and Rayleigh at same level. Low Yonko level. They have similar portrayal, being the 2nd strongest of WB/Roger pirates.

 

[Rmstorm]

Luffy is Yonko level right now. Oda did this now si that he does not have to worry about Luffy's power.

Also Luffy is OP now due to Oda having Luffy finish his journey to laughtale in 3 years real time.

Then the final part of the story begins.

 

[Lord Traffy Law]

Is Yamato YC1+ though?
I'm fairly certain Kaido was holding back, and her base around Ulti level.

Ben Beckman is most likely solid admiral tier based on hype (databook) and portrayal based on inherited will. I mean, inherited will of Roger -> Shanks -> Luffy.
Rayleigh was borderline Yonko level, if not low Yonko level. When Roger was top tier Yonko level.
Same for Oden/WB
Zoro is a lot closer to Luffy than typical YC1 (King/Katakuri) is to their captains.
So, I expect Ben Beckman to be admiral tier, since Shanks is a mid level Yonko



Agree



Sure.

Yet, it was WB who won that fight.
WB was standing and kicking around, fought countless marines since then and almost defeated Blackbeard; while Akainu was KO'd. Luckily for Akainu, he slid into the ground and fell off, before WB could finish him.

You could say WB high-extreme diff'd that fight

If a WB, who was injured, sick and nerfed (heart attack), while old and far from his peak to begin with, could high-extreme diff Akainu. I have no doubt that Kaido or Shanks could mid-high diff Akainu



Maybe.
But IMO Kizaru < Aokiji and Akainu for now

He can definitely put up a fight against Yonkos, but will lose.



I agree they're a different class from regular Yonkos, but not too far off either.

IMO Kaido, at the very least, would give Roger and peak WB lower ends of high diff



I don't think so.

WB, even while old (bar sickness of course), was recognized even by Sengoku and admirals, as the strongest pirate.
Connect the dude to medical equipment, and his haki rivals that of Shanks, someone who became Yonko purely by haki and nothing else.

Peak WB, and Roger/Garp who scales to him directly, are definitely a cut above the rest

As for Oden, I put him and Rayleigh at same level. Low Yonko level. They have similar portrayal, being the 2nd strongest of WB/Roger pirates.

People bring up ulti all the time of ignoring the fact that
1. Ulti is kinda strong and even luffy had issues fighting her
2. Yamato was causally keeping up with a gear 2 + gear 3 luffy who wasn’t unserious

Yamato has advanced armament and conquerors weapon cladding
Yamato Ate a conquerors coated barrage in base from kaido and got up again to fight

kaido again repeatedly said don’t expect me to hold back and Yamato even said he’s trying to kill her , I think Oda kinda hammered it home that

Eh I’ll always pushback there are too many signs
1. Shanks and WB were equal in the flash but he was fresh i
2 whitebeard was considerably weakened , he couldn’t use conqueror haki at will , his COO went from always being passively active in his sleep to getting caught off guard by Squardo
He was called the worlds strongest man because he won the title fair and square and you kinda have to beat the man to earn the title

again im not sure how saying whitebeard who got his internal organs melted and half his face gone “won”
Cause akainu was quickly able to go fight the entire whitebeard crew and even went after Blackbeard pirates immiedatelty after the war and a gura gura buffed Blackbeard and his crew ran away

the gap between luffy and Zoro is probably the largest it’s ever been
Luffy is just so much better at so many things and at worst ties Zoro in other ways
Coa luffy > ( 2 stages of advanced armament , Zoro doesn’t
Coo luffy >>>
Coc >>>>
speed goes to luffy
Durability stamina and endurance only place where I think Zoro might have a slight advantage

 

[grey matter]

People bring up ulti all the time of ignoring the fact that
1. Ulti is kinda strong and even luffy had issues fighting her
2. Yamato was causally keeping up with a gear 2 + gear 3 luffy who wasn’t unserious

Yamato has advanced armament and conquerors weapon cladding
Yamato Ate a conquerors coated barrage in base from kaido and got up again to fight

Sure, Ulti is strong. But she's more like YC4 level.

Luffy wasn't serious obviously. He just wanted to get away more than actually fight to hurt her

Kaido obviously wasn't going to kill her.
Yamato tries this shit with Kaido all the time, and he beats her up

Eh I’ll always pushback there are too many signs
1. Shanks and WB were equal in the flash but he was fresh i
2 whitebeard was considerably weakened , he couldn’t use conqueror haki at will , his COO went from always being passively active in his sleep to getting caught off guard by Squardo
He was called the worlds strongest man because he won the title fair and square and you kinda have to beat the man to earn the title

That's what I'm saying.

Old WB with medical equipments (i.e Old WB - sickness) was still the strongest pirate.

Now imagine a peak WB in his 40s. He's obviously a different level from from the current Yonkos.
Roger and peak Garp scales to peak, and hence a different level from current Yokos

again im not sure how saying whitebeard who got his internal organs melted and half his face gone “won”
Cause akainu was quickly able to go fight the entire whitebeard crew and even went after Blackbeard pirates immiedatelty after the war and a gura gura buffed Blackbeard and his crew ran away

Yeah, I said he high-extreme diff'd

Akainu was KO'd and fell into the chasm, otherwise I can guarantee you that WB would've killed him.

If heavily nerfed old WB is slightly above the strongest admiral amongst the trio, I can see Kaido and Shanks mid diffing Kizaru and mid-high diffing Akainu
Point being, Yonkos are definitely a cut above Admirals. They close enough to put up a fight, but aren't as close as you're saying

the gap between luffy and Zoro is probably the largest it’s ever been
Luffy is just so much better at so many things and at worst ties Zoro in other ways
Coa luffy > ( 2 stages of advanced armament , Zoro doesn’t
Coo luffy >>>
Coc >>>>
speed goes to luffy
Durability stamina and endurance only place where I think Zoro might have a slight advantage

By the end of the arc, Zoro will end up being strong enough to give Luffy high diff, as usual

Zoro will be YC1+
Luffy solid admiral tier (Kizaru level)