One Piece Power Level Discussion Thread

[goldb]

Ground Rules for the Power Level Discussion Thread
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As always, please follow the guidelines set by the Forum Rules that apply across the board.

It's important that discussions from a current chapter are spoiler tagged until 24h have passed from an english release.

• For the sake of constructive discussion, where and when possible please quote/ source any information you provide. Particularly when it comes to conversations carried over from other threads.
• Avoid passive agressive posts, sly remarks or baiting/trolling. You can certainly have fun or disagree without it being at someone's expense.
• Only use anime examples that are canon and as means to provide clarity to pages in the manga. Any other anime material is otherwise non-canon and should only be referenced if it can be proved that the mangaka had approved it.
• We will strive to avoid repetitive discussions and any extensive battle topics will be guided to the Davy Back fight to existing threads or new ones can be made there.

As of now these topics are shelved due to repetitiveness or until the manga can present us with material to further discussions:

1. Shanks v Mihawk
2. Hand to hand fighters > Swordsmen
3. Zoro > Luffy
4. Zoro v Sanji
5. Is Smoker a top 30 character?
6. Mihawk's rank within the story
7. Law having CoC currently.
8. Katakuri > Kaido/Luffy/Etc.

If you wish to continue any of these discussion and remove it from the list, you will need to provide manga material as proof. If there's also anything you think we've covered numerous times, let me know and I'll update the list.

This is the only warning there'll be regarding these ground rules, anything no adhering will be removed. So please just check your posts before posting them.

 

[Pirate Queen]

He negated the power suck but couldn't fight with it properly. Shit, YOU should know he's still somewhat struggling with it. Zoro explicitly said learning how to tame it will make him stronger. If you chose to ignore that it's on you.

I think he's making the point that Zoro from fresh out of the timeskip and the Zoro from right before receiving Enma would struggle about the same amount due to the haki drain... which he may be entirely right about.

It's not like we know if Zoro's haki Control has gotten better between right out of Post Time skip and now. It's not like Oda focuses on Zoro or any strawhat outside of Luffy, combat wise

 

[Ellenate]

I think he's making the point that Zoro from fresh out of the timeskip and the Zoro from right before receiving would struggle about the same amount due to the haki drain... which he may be entirely right about.

It's not like we know if Zoro's haki Control has gotten better between right out of Post Time skip and now. It's not like Oda focuses on Zoro or any strawhat outside of Luffy, combat wise

you. complete. me.

 

[Crimson Ice]

I think he's making the point that Zoro from fresh out of the timeskip and the Zoro from right before receiving Enma would struggle about the same amount due to the haki drain... which he may be entirely right about.

It's not like we know if Zoro's haki Control has gotten better between right out of Post Time skip and now. It's not like Oda focuses on Zoro or any strawhat outside of Luffy, combat wise

I think it's blatantly obvious Zoro had improved. He still all that time before the raid trying to hone Enma. If that was his point, he's still wrong.

 

[Pirate Queen]

you. complete. me.

--- Double Post Merged, Nov 21, 2021, Original Post Date: Nov 21, 2021 ---

I think it's blatantly obvious Zoro had improved. He still all that time before the raid trying to hone Enma. If that was his point, he's still wrong.

I'm thinking there is a disconnect. We are talking about 2 Zoros here

Zoro from right out of the post time skip

And

Zoro from right before holding Enma the first time.

The question is would both Zoro's struggle equally with trying to control Enma or will the 2nd Zoro have an easier time because he's gotten better haki control over the course of the New World Arcs.

I think the point has to be that because we don't know Zoro's haki Control at any point in the post time skip... He would be in the same position.

It's not like Zoro has ever said "Damn I'm losing control of my haki"

I don't think this is strength dicussion but a haki output and control dicussion.. I may be wrong, however

 

[M3J]

How so... he negated the suck within 2 seconds of handling it and has proven deadly despite any extensive training.

There's no reason why, if place here directly from the timeskip, he couldn't repeat his feats.

How could pre-timeskip Zoro negate the suck if he had no idea how to control his haki?

It’s always been a thing even before the time skip. It just wasn’t this ridiculously toxic…

Sanji Vs Zoro was heated but nobody really hated the other fandom.

You can fight back the absurd comments. But why he the idiot to say Sanji can’t hold a candle to Zoro…It’s the same idiocy as saying Zoro can’t give Luffy a challenge

But how can Zoro be a challenge to a Gear 4 Luffy with Future Sight if Zoro can't hit or damage Luffy?

 

[Pirate Queen]

How could pre-timeskip Zoro negate the suck if he had no idea how to control his haki?

Not pretimeskip Zoro... Fishman Island Zoro

 

[M3J]

Oh, that Zoro should definitely be able to negate the suck and whatever else that current Zoro can do with his haki. It's not like Zoro had to go all out until now that he got better with each fight.

 

[Pirate Queen]

Mihawk didn't let Zoro drink until he mastered CoA so at least in basic CoA Zoro would have entered the New World with mastery over it

 

[M3J]

Plus, how can he coat his swords in haki if he couldn't control haki to an extent?

 

[albertwv]

Ummm sooo.... is Sanji vs Queen over?

 

[Lord Traffy Law]

Tbf luffy really wasn’t made to dig deep and be outclassed by an opponent to any degree till whole cake island with cracker and katakuri
Doffy was tough but even base luffy could hang pretty well with him , gear 4 was on a whole another level , luffy carelessMess was kinda what was doing him in the world
He was much much stronger than hody and Caesar clown

 

[BoyNextDoor]

Oh, that Zoro should definitely be able to negate the suck and whatever else that current Zoro can do with his haki. It's not like Zoro had to go all out until now that he got better with each fight.

just look at kidd and law. especially law. we didn't see him train or anything from the time he fought doflamingo but he's alot stronger now than he was back then. thats because the main characters get stronger each arc. doesnt matter that zoro never went all out. every arc the relevant characters strengths get scaled up to fight against stronger guys. thats how it works.

 

[Lord Traffy Law]

just look at kidd and law. especially law. we didn't see him train or anything from the time he fought doflamingo but he's alot stronger now than he was back then. thats because the main characters get stronger each arc. doesnt matter that zoro never went all out. every arc the relevant characters strengths get scaled up to fight against stronger guys. thats how it works.

I mean law got the ever loving stuffing kicked out of him by fuji/doffy and then fujitora
Kinda same with kidd after getting decked by kaido and having the raw stats buff in prison with luffy
There were instances that forced growth for them
Zoro kinda not been pushed at all till now

 

[Pirate Queen]

just look at kidd and law. especially law. we didn't see him train or anything from the time he fought doflamingo but he's alot stronger now than he was back then. thats because the main characters get stronger each arc. doesnt matter that zoro never went all out. every arc the relevant characters strengths get scaled up to fight against stronger guys. thats how it works.

We aren't taking about strength this instance, just about haki Control and output.

Zoro obviously got stronger between arcs but there isn't evidence of his haki undergoing a change

He hasn't had a lot of opportunity to exercise it.

--- Double Post Merged, Nov 21, 2021, Original Post Date: Nov 21, 2021 ---

Zoro's rooftop feats were very misleading form people that didn't understand the subtle/ not so powerscaling happening for everyone not named Luffy.

Because of the Rooftop Zoro was being scaled to YC1+ whereas he is struggling with King like you would think a YC 2/3 would, which is his actual standing. I'd say high end YC2, YC1 by the end of the fight.

Where as Luffy was YC1 coming right out of the Time Skip. Katakuri, without FS, was a pretty equal fight with Luffy, barring outside interference for both side.

Speaks volumes for how difficult it is to jump from being a YC 1 to Yonko level.

--- Double Post Merged, Nov 21, 2021 ---

Zoro's rooftop feats were very misleading form people that didn't understand the subtle/ not so powerscaling happening for everyone not named Luffy.

Because of the Rooftop Zoro was being scaled to YC1+ whereas he is struggling with King like you would think a YC 2/3 would, which is his actual standing. I'd say high end YC2, YC1 by the end of the fight.

Where as Luffy was YC1 coming right out of the Time Skip. Katakuri, without FS, was a pretty equal fight with Luffy, barring outside interference for both side.

Speaks volumes for how difficult it is to jump from being a YC 1 to Yonko level.

 

[grey matter]

Also where would we rank the top tier scabbards
I still think suulong inu and neko are around YC2 or YC2+ level ( suulong seems to be a double if not triple multiplier for most )
Kyoshiro/Denjiro : YC3 + if not lower end YC2
Ashura : YC3+ or lower end YC2
Base inu/neko : YC3 level
Kawamatsu: lower end or basic YC3 level

Sulong Cat/Dog : YC2+, if not lower ends of YC1.
I mean, their base was YC3, and Sulong is a powerful transformation. Look at what it did to fodder like carrot lol

Kyoshiro: YC2

Kin'nemon: YC2 (lets be real, he got retconned)

Shutenmaru: YC3+
He was stronger than Jack. But, I think he and Jack were close enough to the point he wasn't a YC2

Kawamatsu, Izo, Kiku, Raizo: YC4

 

[M3J]

just look at kidd and law. especially law. we didn't see him train or anything from the time he fought doflamingo but he's alot stronger now than he was back then. thats because the main characters get stronger each arc. doesnt matter that zoro never went all out. every arc the relevant characters strengths get scaled up to fight against stronger guys. thats how it works.

What kind of weird-ass logic is this? It matters what Zoro showed and didn't show, we have no idea if he could control haki from the start, and there's no reason to believe he couldn't. Law isn't one of the main characters, and he didn't show everything he had in his arsenal, apparently, just as Luffy didn't show Gear 4 in Fishman Island and Punk Hazard.

 

[LadyVados]

um but you know hes gonna beat him in a 1 on 1 now right?

How on earth is it a 1v1 if Kaido is heavily injured and has fought dozens of people already ?

--- Double Post Merged, Nov 21, 2021, Original Post Date: Nov 21, 2021 ---

From what I remember, Zoro vs. Luffy was barely a discussion

It was definitely a thing in the 90s and early 2000s.

And toxic Zoro and Sanji has been a thing way before WCI

--- Double Post Merged, Nov 21, 2021 ---

But how can Zoro be a challenge to a Gear 4 Luffy with Future Sight if Zoro can't hit or damage Luffy?

Zoro has AoE attacks like Tatsumaki which are undodgeable.

G4 Luffy was damaged by Cracker.

Zoro stomped Pica who is stronger than Vergo who stomped Sanji who held his own against Judge who fought on par with Snack.

How big do you think the gap between Snack and Cracker's physicals are ?

 

[Fox666]

Zoro has AoE attacks like Tatsumaki which are undodgeable.

Why would you think his "tornado" attacks are undodgeable?

 

[Crimson Ice]

How on earth is it a 1v1 if Kaido is heavily injured and has fought dozens of people already ?

--- Double Post Merged, Nov 21, 2021, Original Post Date: Nov 21, 2021 ---

It was definitely a thing in the 90s and early 2000s.

And toxic Zoro and Sanji has been a thing way before WCI

--- Double Post Merged, Nov 21, 2021 ---

Zoro has AoE attacks like Tatsumaki which are undodgeable.

G4 Luffy was damaged by Cracker.

Zoro stomped Pica who is stronger than Vergo who stomped Sanji who held his own against Judge who fought on par with Snack.

How big do you think the gap between Snack and Cracker's physicals are ?

"Heavily injured" LMAOOOOOO you're just lying. Not to mention, his worst injuries have come from Luffy.

--- Double Post Merged, Nov 21, 2021 ---

--- Double Post Merged, Nov 21, 2021, Original Post Date: Nov 21, 2021 ---

I'm thinking there is a disconnect. We are talking about 2 Zoros here

Zoro from right out of the post time skip

And

Zoro from right before holding Enma the first time.

The question is would both Zoro's struggle equally with trying to control Enma or will the 2nd Zoro have an easier time because he's gotten better haki control over the course of the New World Arcs.

I think the point has to be that because we don't know Zoro's haki Control at any point in the post time skip... He would be in the same position.

It's not like Zoro has ever said "Damn I'm losing control of my haki"

I don't think this is strength dicussion but a haki output and control dicussion.. I may be wrong, however

His wording was if Zoro was teleported right now, as in currently in the raid. If that's what he meant he wasn't clear. If Zoro has time to train with Enma then there's really not much difference.

 

[LadyVados]

"Heavily injured" LMAOOOOOO you're just lying. Not to mention, his worst injuries have come from Luffy.

It’s not like Yamato outright says he is weakened.

If we assume what you say is true (Which it isn’t) it’s a massive advantage if you manage to do a little bit of damage get KOed, healed up, do a little bit of damage, get KOed, healed up, repeat when your opponent is not being healed.

Even if he wins this fight Luffy will only be YC1+ level or Admiral level or Low top tier or Yonko- level or whatever you want to call it.

--- Double Post Merged, Nov 21, 2021, Original Post Date: Nov 21, 2021 ---

Well, Zolo left Kaido a big scar, does that mean Zolo is stronger than Luffy?

That is a rhetorical question. No, Zolo is NOT stronger than Luffy.

In attack power- yes. In attack power I rate him above Shanks and Roger since they left no scar on Kaido.

--- Double Post Merged, Nov 21, 2021 ---

Hey guys please dont talk about spoilers of the next chapter just yet. I know you have the spoiler tag on, thats great, but some people dont use the tags when replying to or there is a whole new conversation hidden through spoiler tags.

Whenever I talk about powerscaling in the spoilers thread I always end up getting banned.