One Piece Power Level Discussion Thread

[goldb]

Ground Rules for the Power Level Discussion Thread
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As always, please follow the guidelines set by the Forum Rules that apply across the board.

It's important that discussions from a current chapter are spoiler tagged until 24h have passed from an english release.

• For the sake of constructive discussion, where and when possible please quote/ source any information you provide. Particularly when it comes to conversations carried over from other threads.
• Avoid passive agressive posts, sly remarks or baiting/trolling. You can certainly have fun or disagree without it being at someone's expense.
• Only use anime examples that are canon and as means to provide clarity to pages in the manga. Any other anime material is otherwise non-canon and should only be referenced if it can be proved that the mangaka had approved it.
• We will strive to avoid repetitive discussions and any extensive battle topics will be guided to the Davy Back fight to existing threads or new ones can be made there.

As of now these topics are shelved due to repetitiveness or until the manga can present us with material to further discussions:

1. Shanks v Mihawk
2. Hand to hand fighters > Swordsmen
3. Zoro > Luffy
4. Zoro v Sanji
5. Is Smoker a top 30 character?
6. Mihawk's rank within the story
7. Law having CoC currently.
8. Katakuri > Kaido/Luffy/Etc.

If you wish to continue any of these discussion and remove it from the list, you will need to provide manga material as proof. If there's also anything you think we've covered numerous times, let me know and I'll update the list.

This is the only warning there'll be regarding these ground rules, anything no adhering will be removed. So please just check your posts before posting them.

 

[grey matter]

There’s literal no sound or style indicatin that Zoro used advanced armament , even at that , flow wasn’t needed to take on pica , it was a raw power battle , putting armament on weapons doesn’t automatically makes you a flow user . Does that mean vergo was using flow ? Or smoker ?
heck even in the anime which uses a visual indicator for when flow is being Zoro , Zoro isn’t shown using it

eh in ennies lobby using their enemies as their benchmark , kaku was a high diff for Zoro . He not even comparable at all to luffy/lucci

IT wasn't because of armament in sword. Obviously that doesn't make you an advanced armament user lol.
It's because there was an aura of armament haki emanating from Zoro's blades, which does seem like advanced armamnet

Kaku was like 60% Lucci in stats IIRC, and Zoro high diff'd him after powerup. So, Zoro was like 70% Lucci
Lucci was also a bit stronger than Luffy in EL. Luffy had to rely on literal POF and go beyond his limits to win this lol. IMO Luffy was like 90-95% Lucci in that arc.
So yeah, Zoro would've ended up giving Luffy a mid-high diff or high diff by the end of EL

--- Double Post Merged, Nov 30, 2021, Original Post Date: Nov 30, 2021 ---

It always surprises me when I get responses like this.

Are you assuming I think Luffy can Neg Diff Zoro?

I just don't get it. I think Zoro is incredibly strong and this isn't the first time I've said Zoro could give Luffy a mid/high fight. My opinion just changes with each power up.

I disagree with your idea of how CoC is helpful in a fight however. CoC has incredible stopping power that we just haven't seen in this manga. A CoC infused attack makes light work of anything not YC1 level or above. Not saying it's a One Shot Power for a YC1 but it definitely crushes whomever it touches.

I thought you said Luffy low diff or low-mid diff Zoro. I guess I got people mixed up lol, my bad. IK someone did say it

AS for conqueror's coating, we'll see.
Advanced conqueror's is not only in it's hype phase; but also being used against Kaido/King, two opponents who has insane defences against "regular" attacks. So, it's hype is double exaggerated

Let's see how it fares later in the series.
I don't think any admirals or BB pirates need advanced conqueror's or armament to be damaged, i.e they seem susceptible to "regular" attacks. Lets see how advanced haki fares against them. By then we'll get a good understanding of how it fares normally and have a more accurate assessment.

 

[Pirate Queen]

Let's see how it fares later in the series.
I don't think any admirals or BB pirates need advanced conqueror's or armament to be damaged, i.e they seem susceptible to "regular" attacks. Lets see how advanced haki fares against them. But then we'll get a good understanding of how it fares normallly.

Definitely agree with this. And BB takes double damage so it's the opposite of Kaido

 

[I Am Atomic]

Some points I want to raise:

1. The reason Katakuri is so hard to hit is not just because of his FS alone (which is the most advanced we have seen), but also his Mochi DF, which compliments his aCoO. It's a special fruit after all.

2. Zoro will always lose to Luffy. Otherwise the plot fails. Should be end of discussion.
However, I would love to see the trio fight each other. Would be fun.

3. Talking about Blackbeard, since he takes double the damage, fighting anyone with aCoA is his worst nightmare. And there is no way he can be more durable than Kaido.
So do you guys think he already has a defensive based DF? Something that negates a lot of damage he takes?
Some theories mention he will kill Kaido and get his fruit, but I hope not because the dragon Zoan is just a punching bag.
Would be cool if BB obtains a defensive DF we never seen before. Marco's fruit would have made him OP.

 

[AmitDS]

[]

It Travels from its source & its is Slowed down & Stopped!! In front of Zoro…..Until Law teleports everyone from in front the blast explodes forward again

Why the perspective on Zoro feats always gotta be downplayed….Same as when Kaido says the man used CoC to hurt him, everyone denies it…smh.

Same way Kaido mentions only a chosen fee can use CoC such a way. Yet Luffy is just leagues ahead of Zoro…Smh.

Ya like being wrong or suttin!

The projection chile-

If he stopped it why did Law have to swap him out is what I'm asking. The fact that Law had to teleport him out of the blast's way proves he did not in fact block it. You're conflating blocking with slowing it down, they're not the same.
I think you're trying to portray it as if Zoro would've successfully blocked it even after his second was up? This is incorrect. Zoro would not have stopped it if he stood in its way a second more, he would've been obliterated. Law basically confirms this for us. Getting saved from parrying the entirety of a blast/slash before you get yourself killed isn't a successful block lol I mean, even the second he stood in its way, he got all his bones broken.

And no it's not an agenda to "downplay" Zoro, I'm simply just refuting fallacies that are spread to overhype him. Saying Zoro did not block a combined Yonkou duo attack is not "downplaying" him. The fact that you consider this downplaying proves that you're trying to oversell him xD

Spoiler

And @bold. I had this conversation with someone on another forum so I'll reiterate the response here:

I have been right about most, if not everything when it came to Zoro in this arc thus far unlike others who thought he was too strong to fight King because he was 'dancing with Kaido' LMAO!
Always overselling and overhyping Zoro's feats just build up a bubble and when Oda bursts it you guys are always surprised and disappointed.

 

[roggie]

To keep bringing FS can only be interpreted as lack of argument. Lets be pragmatic, after Katakuri, it never made any difference. Why would Luffy be a punching bag if it was the real deal?

As for luffy vs zoro, dont you dare to forget one of the most important axiom of OPverse: swords > punches

Though at the end of the day, Luffy still wins. In a 1 to Kaido scale of difficulty: 8

 

[Lord Traffy Law]

To keep bringing FS can only be interpreted as lack of argument. Lets be pragmatic, after Katakuri, it never made any difference. Why would Luffy be a punching bag if it was the real deal?

As for luffy vs zoro, dont you dare to forget one of the most important axiom of OPverse: swords > punches

Though at the end of the day, Luffy still wins. In a 1 to Kaido scale of difficulty: 8

I don’t think anything shows swords are superior to brawlers in one piece really
Sengoku and Garp are brawlers
Akainu is a brawler
Luffy is a brawler

 

[Pirate Queen]

As for luffy vs zoro, dont you dare to forget one of the most important axiom of OPverse: swords > punches

 

[AmitDS]

3. Talking about Blackbeard, since he takes double the damage, fighting anyone with aCoA is his worst nightmare. And there is no way he can be more durable than Kaido.
So do you guys think he already has a defensive based DF? Something that negates a lot of damage he takes?
Some theories mention he will kill Kaido and get his fruit, but I hope not because the dragon Zoan is just a punching bag.
Would be cool if BB obtains a defensive DF we never seen before. Marco's fruit would have made him OP.

Theory time:
What if he kills Urouge and takes his DF. Double dmg intake cuz of his Yami Yami no Mi so he'd get double buffed.

 

[XXGenesis]

I feel like the only change between Zoro and Luffy now is that Luffy can't beat Zoro in base anymore and would need to use gears to beat Zoro.

Luffy with Future Sight, Advanced CoA Imternal Damage, and Advanced CoC, G2+G3+G4 is still Mid/High-Diffing Zoro.

Zoro(if he is actually has Advanced and it's looking like that may be the case) can only cancel out Luffy's use of CoC. It does nothing for Luffy's other Advanced forms.

what’s with the doubt?! Why so reserved! After the reveal…He has it.

Agreed their fight should always go down with a mid/high difficulty fight. Wow Thank you. This is all I ask, logical deduction.

It’s a High Diff fight when Luffy doesn’t have ACoC or when Zoro unlocks his….Mid Diff when Zoro doesn’t have ACoC & neither does Luffy. They are relatively on the same level. Luffy is the MC so he’ll always be stronger. The antagonist or villain of the arc will help

Some points I want to raise:

1. The reason Katakuri is so hard to hit is not just because of his FS alone (which is the most advanced we have seen), but also his Mochi DF, which compliments his aCoO. It's a special fruit after all.

2. Zoro will always lose to Luffy. Otherwise the plot fails. Should be end of discussion.
However, I would love to see the trio fight each other. Would be fun.

3. Talking about Blackbeard, since he takes double the damage, fighting anyone with aCoA is his worst nightmare. And there is no way he can be more durable than Kaido.
So do you guys think he already has a defensive based DF? Something that negates a lot of damage he takes?
Some theories mention he will kill Kaido and get his fruit, but I hope not because the dragon Zoan is just a punching bag.
Would be cool if BB obtains a defensive DF we never seen before. Marco's fruit would have made him OP.

1) Agreed. Those with malleable bodies because of DF have an extra evasion buff. Luffy was dodging the FS counters because of this early in the fight. combine this with FS it can look like Haki doesn’t work on you

Ex..Katakuri & Kuzan avoiding Haki blows that would have otherwise hit/hurt them

2) I think most logical fans agree with this. They haven’t been equal or portrayed as equal in forever. It’s the level of difficulty everyone argues about. Any h2h fighter vs a Good weapon user is up for a challenege.

 

[Rein Avara]

Just agree to disagree on certain topics, there is no need to stoop as low as insulting someone.

 

[M3J]

I don’t think anything shows swords are superior to brawlers in one piece really
Sengoku and Garp are brawlers
Akainu is a brawler
Luffy is a brawler

I mean, if swords cut the enemy, then they're done for. had Luffy stretched his arms, Mihawk would have cut it off cleanly. Fighters like Akainu wouldn't be affected by swords unless it had haki infused, since they're logias. As for Sengoku and Garp, haki and in Sengoku's case, devil fruit power?

Normal sword would actually wound normal Luffy effortlessly, he'd need haki to not be affected by swords, and probably stronger haki than the haki-clad swords.

 

[albertwv]

Why is nobody talking about the CP0 fights vs Drake and Apoo

 

[grey matter]

I don’t think anything shows swords are superior to brawlers in one piece really
Sengoku and Garp are brawlers
Akainu is a brawler
Luffy is a brawler

Honestly it does seem to be the case.

Have two characters equal in stats and haki, but one guy is swordsman. I bet on the swordsman to win all the time

Luffy > Zoro because Luffy's simply overall stronger due to DF plus generally superior haki (Zoro might be around same level only in armament, Luffy has him cleanly beat in observation and Conqueror's).
Not because he's a brawler.

Garp is a special case of haki monster.

 

[Lord Traffy Law]

Honestly it does seem to be the case.

Have two characters equal in stats and haki, but one guy is swordsman. I bet on the swordsman to win all the time

Luffy > Zoro because Luffy's simply overall stronger due to DF plus generally superior haki (Zoro might be around same level only in armament, Luffy has him cleanly beat in observation and Conqueror's).
Not because he's a brawler.

Garp is a special case of haki monster.

That’s kinda using real world logic
We don’t usually get swordsmen versus brawlers tho

 

[grey matter]

That’s kinda using real world logic
We don’t usually get swordsmen versus brawlers tho

It's true when it comes to every top tier in OP at well.

They either use a sword (Roger, Rayleigh, Shanks, Oden), or has a devil fruit (BB, Sengoku,
admirals ), or maybe even both (WB, BM).
The only top tier who is a pure brawler seems to be Garp

Luffy is a brawler, but his DF carries him here. I guess with his advanced Conqueror's, he does seem close to a pure brawler now. Let's wait and see how long that lasts

 

[Crimson Ice]

Till the awakened conquerors , Zoro was noticeably behind Luffy
Cause they had comparable base powers , and but luffy kinda blows Zoro in regard to all advanced uses of haki
Armored : luffy had flow and stage 3 as well as emission , Zoro still doesn’t , or hasn’t show it
COO : luffy has future sight , Zoro hasnt
COC : luffy has advanced conquerors, Zoro just gained ( which for me not a fan of still Oda could have made Zoro a conscious user ages ago to balance things out , this is literally like coby going straight to future sight when he awakened it marineford ( or if luffy did too )

maybe Zoro can do well against gear 2 + gear 3 luffy , but even with just base haki uses , I think gear bound man and snakeman still puts luffy over the top

I think you're being generous. It's base Luffy that's squaring off with Kaido, that should be enough honestly. Luffy has already got his advanced conquerors buffed once against Kaido.

--- Double Post Merged, Dec 1, 2021, Original Post Date: Dec 1, 2021 ---

Why is nobody talking about the CP0 fights vs Drake and Apoo

I need to see more. I am interested in what enhancements the CP0 guys received.

 

[M3J]

That’s kinda using real world logic
We don’t usually get swordsmen versus brawlers tho

Isn't that mainly One Piece logic though? Luffy's easily been hurt by sharp objects, like the robbers' spiked knuckles when he was a kid. I don't remember if a sword has hurt him though, but he saw his arms getting cut off, so swords would likely affect him as well.

 

[albertwv]

A couple of weeks ago we were discussing the level of CP0s, some said YC1 others admiral level.
After seeing them go after Apoo and Drake.... hmm I would say YC3-2

Apoo is YC4 level at best and Drake as well. I dont think Drake could defeat Jack so I place him as YC4

 

[grey matter]

Really hoping that CP0 won't disappoint.

What do you guys think of Drake's fate? The dude apparently has 1% chance to survive. Will the CP0 guys kill him?
I kinda want him to survive tho

I want the top tiers of CP0 to be YC1-2 level, and the boss to be admiral tier.

Hyped for Rob Lucci (he was a masked one afterall), hopefully he faces Zoro (him fighting Luffy now makes little sense) and gives him a good fight. But that's just the fanboy in me being hopeful lol.
He did fight Sabo in the movie, if Oda had anything to do with it, might be suggestion that current Lucci has grown as well and is still a very strong fighter to face!

 

[Crimson Ice]

A couple of weeks ago we were discussing the level of CP0s, some said YC1 others admiral level.
After seeing them go after Apoo and Drake.... hmm I would say YC3-2

Apoo is YC4 level at best and Drake as well. I dont think Drake could defeat Jack so I place him as YC4

People were grossly overestimating CP0. I guess people treated Lucci's movie feats as cannon.