One Piece Power Level Discussion Thread

[goldb]

Ground Rules for the Power Level Discussion Thread
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As always, please follow the guidelines set by the Forum Rules that apply across the board.

It's important that discussions from a current chapter are spoiler tagged until 24h have passed from an english release.

• For the sake of constructive discussion, where and when possible please quote/ source any information you provide. Particularly when it comes to conversations carried over from other threads.
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• We will strive to avoid repetitive discussions and any extensive battle topics will be guided to the Davy Back fight to existing threads or new ones can be made there.

As of now these topics are shelved due to repetitiveness or until the manga can present us with material to further discussions:

1. Shanks v Mihawk
2. Hand to hand fighters > Swordsmen
3. Zoro > Luffy
4. Zoro v Sanji
5. Is Smoker a top 30 character?
6. Mihawk's rank within the story
7. Law having CoC currently.
8. Katakuri > Kaido/Luffy/Etc.

If you wish to continue any of these discussion and remove it from the list, you will need to provide manga material as proof. If there's also anything you think we've covered numerous times, let me know and I'll update the list.

This is the only warning there'll be regarding these ground rules, anything no adhering will be removed. So please just check your posts before posting them.

 

[Bandit99]

Nah the big mum pirates lived up to the hype
Granted the alliance here is bigger an grander but luffy and co had to run away at the end of whole cake island
Luffy and co were constantly on the back foot during the entire arc and were lucky to survive and escape
In

I’m sure only having half of their core crew on the island played a huge part in that.

 

[Lord Traffy Law]

I’m sure only having half of their core crew on the island played a huge part in that.

Agreed but at the time the Strawhats weren’t ready
Granted the samurai mink pirate alliance had superior forces but the issue is , who created more hype of the forces of a yonkou
Big mum pirates impressed me a lot

 

[AmitDS]

BMP had a bunch of broken DFs lol I'm confused xD

Cracker's DF imo is one of the most hax fruits since he can essentially create an infinite army of soldiers that need at least G4 haki to break. Add that to the tactical advantages Brulee's mirror fruit gives in a military war context and the BMP clearly have the best DF abilities for warfare.
Even background characters like Galette (Butter DF) and Mont-d'Or (Book DF) have interesting and lucrative abilities that are hax as well. And that's just to name a few. Heck, Perospero's fruit was also quite strong and versatile; he could make candies that resisted G3 punches and he can candify people-

Oda did the Beast Pirates dirty showing off their SMILEs and Clunky Dinos after all of those DF abilities in WCI lmao

 

[Fox666]

Yeah, the Big Mom Pirates were on a completely different league

The Straw Hats didn't stood a chance

Who would have guessed that in the next arc the Straw Hats could defeat an Yonko crew 1-on-1?

 

[albertwv]

Nah the big mum pirates lived up to the hype
Granted the alliance here is bigger an grander but luffy and co had to run away at the end of whole cake island
Luffy and co were constantly on the back foot during the entire arc and were lucky to survive and escape
In

They lived up to their strength I'll give them that. The way they efficiently used their DFs in combat was great but I meant the nature/theme of their DFs was mostly food related. To me that was unimpressive and an asspull from Oda. Not all of them had food based DFs though, but some of them were broken af. Some paramethia DFs are broken AF but weak in combat. Like Sugars, Brulee, Mont D'or, Otama, Crackers, etc. But the way they use them make them dangerous.
I think Oda overdid it with having ALL of the BMP ships chasing after 1 ship and NOT being able to catch up to it, various times. That really was horrible. I would understand a few ships but to have a whole fleet larger than WB's and Navy HQs and one shit being able to outrun them, that was ridiculous, too much plot armor.

Idk the BMP did not impress me at all. It was a let down, having a major Yonko crew look wacky af and having weird food powers. Like Crackers having a biscuit DF that allows him to somehow make tons of biscuit soldiers.... asspull. It would have been better too see how he would use his biscuits offensively or defensively instead of creating "biscuit soldiers".

 

[M3J]

Nah the big mum pirates lived up to the hype
Granted the alliance here is bigger an grander but luffy and co had to run away at the end of whole cake island
Luffy and co were constantly on the back foot during the entire arc and were lucky to survive and escape
In

Excellent point, Luffy never even got a chance to fight Big Mom, and had he did, he'd have been destroyed so quickly. Katakuri was extremely challenging for him.

 

[Core D. Roy]

I think Oda overdid it with having ALL of the BMP ships chasing after 1 ship and NOT being able to catch up to it, various times. That really was horrible. I would understand a few ships but to have a whole fleet larger than WB's and Navy HQs and one shit being able to outrun them, that was ridiculous, too much plot armor.

Literal plot armor is the Sunny's hiding spot being found by the Beasts Pirates, blown up by the Gifters, and then the Sunny appears afterward completely fine with a couple of scuffs and a tattered sail. As if the Gifters hucked bombs at it in a small cave, and immediately flew away within seconds, before the dust even settled to show that the ship was totally fine. That moment of fake tension was indicative of everything wrong with Wano, and how the Beasts Pirates are, ironically, a crew without any teeth.

The Sunny escaping on the open sea with it's hax-ass cola technology and Jinbe's dope helmsmanship is not plot armor lol. Just because there were a ton of ships in Big Mom's fleet doesn't mean any of them were nearly as fast or maneuverable as the Sunny.

 

[GL_Nova]

Why do we keep arguing with LadyVados, her saying that Zolo's Attack Power > Roger's is enough for me to dismiss her entirely.

Another thing, Luffy post TS was not YC1 @Pirate Queen he has only attained YC1 level when he reached Onigashima.
Zolo was not YC level until Wano. Teleport Fishman Island Zolo with Enma to current arc and he would not be able to scar Kaido or control Enma, look hes having a hard time controlling Enma from the latest chapter.

Shutenmaru vs Jack, Shuten made one huge cut on Jack, but the duel wasnt over it was interrupted by Kaidos arrival. Its hard to gauge, but it seems Shutenmaru was the winner. I would still rank him as YC3.

Kyoshro/Denjiro to me is the most overhyped RS, even though we know little of his strength. HE easily blocked Zolo but that doesnt mean they both were going at it seriously. Zolo did acknowledge his strength but he did so with Kamazo as well and then proceeded to take him down swiftly. Zolo also acknowledged Apoo, I think, but then took him down swiftly too.
Without knowing Denjiros strength compared to others I would rank him YC4/3. I say he is Flying 6 level.
Izo, Raizo, Kawa, Kiku are all YC4 level as well. But I see them having difficulty fighting Page One who may be the weakest F6.

Also Im on the Luffy is NOT Yonko level ship. Kaido is tired from fighting strong opponents back to back while keeping a whole island afloat. Kaido has been tanking hits left and right. Even if Luffy defeats him, it wouldnt be as if Luffy >/= Kaido. No way. Just like the Kata fight, Luffy "won" the fight but we all clearly saw how inferior he was to Kata.

Luffy vs Kata, take away FS and Kata can still defeat Luffy. Katas hits were hurting Luffy more than the other way around. Kata had to give himself a handicap.

Also, why are you guys ignoring the Sanji vs Queen fight is it truly over?

They split the sky, your argument is null and mute. Let the Luffy being Yonko argument go. That ship has past.

 

[grey matter]

Nah the big mum pirates lived up to the hype
Granted the alliance here is bigger an grander but luffy and co had to run away at the end of whole cake island
Luffy and co were constantly on the back foot during the entire arc and were lucky to survive and escape
In

IMO Beast Pirates > BM Pirates

Just that Strawhats grew a lot, and like you said they have better allies. Scabbards themselves are varying ranges of YC tiers. And they have 5K Samurais, in addition to BP traitors and all.

They split the sky, your argument is null and mute. Let the Luffy being Yonko argument go. That ship has past.

Not necessarily. You can have Yonko level Conqueror's haki and be below in other stats.

Kaido has been through a massive gauntlet

--- Double Post Merged, Dec 11, 2021, Original Post Date: Dec 11, 2021 ---

Agreed but at the time the Strawhats weren’t ready
Granted the samurai mink pirate alliance had superior forces but the issue is , who created more hype of the forces of a yonkou
Big mum pirates impressed me a lot

It's more of:
We saw BM pirates in action when it wasn't the time yet to take down a Yonko. Basically we saw BMP during the hype stage of the yonko crew.
While we're seeing Beast piraates in action when it's time to take down not only one, but two Yonkos down!

Not saying BP weren't underwhelming. They definitely were! From every Smile user being fodder, to Tobiroppo going down easily, to Queen getting smacked around for the entire arc. BP is a letdown.
But just saying BMP probably wouldn't have been any different at this stage. I understand, but it's kinda unfair to compare the hype of the two, when one was in it's hype phase vs when one was in it's phase to be taken down.

 

[Core D. Roy]

IMO Beast Pirates > BM Pirates

...

It's more of:
We saw BM pirates in action when it wasn't the time yet to take down a Yonko. Basically we saw BMP during the hype stage of the yonko crew.
While we're seeing Beast piraates in action when it's time to take down not only one, but two Yonkos down!

Not saying BP weren't underwhelming. They definitely were! From every Smile user being fodder, to Tobiroppo going down easily, to Queen getting smacked around for the entire arc. BP is a letdown.
But just saying BMP probably wouldn't have been any different at this stage. I understand, but it's kinda unfair to compare the hype of the two, when one was in it's hype phase vs when one was in it's phase to be taken down.

I mean I get the whole 'it's different because of where the story is' thing, but looking at the two crews as objectively as possibly? Come on. The Big Mom pirates have spent the entirety of their time being a crew amassing a massive network of islands as territory, and don't crumble at the mere sight of their captain going bonkers and becoming antagonistic. Beasts Pirates? They've kept a stranglehold on Wano only (which is a great territory, but still only one island), and they instantly lose cohesiveness when the upper echelons are in any danger/craziness at all.

Their crews are reflective of who they were as part of the Rocks Pirates. Kaidou is the ascended rookie who was in over his head back then, and as far as yonkou are concerned? He's the one with the shittiest crew that has no contingency for the boss going berserk/dying/etc. And so far, King hasn't displayed the competence Katakuri has when it comes to right-hand-men being in control in an emergency.

I'm still trying to give Kaidou and his crew the benefit of the doubt, but boy howdy. The Beasts Pirates have a LONG way to catch up in terms of competence to the Big Mom Pirates.

 

[grey matter]

...

I meant in power level obviously lol. Not in execution or hype or anything

I mean I get the whole 'it's different because of where the story is' thing, but looking at the two crews as objectively as possibly? Come on. The Big Mom pirates have spent the entirety of their time being a crew amassing a massive network of islands as territory, and don't crumble at the mere sight of their captain going bonkers and becoming antagonistic. Beasts Pirates? They've kept a stranglehold on Wano only (which is a great territory, but still only one island), and they instantly lose cohesiveness when the upper echelons are in any danger/craziness at all.

Their crews are reflective of who they were as part of the Rocks Pirates. Kaidou is the ascended rookie who was in over his head back then, and as far as yonkou are concerned? He's the one with the shittiest crew that has no contingency for the boss going berserk/dying/etc. And so far, King hasn't displayed the competence Katakuri has when it comes to right-hand-men being in control in an emergency.

I'm still trying to give Kaidou and his crew the benefit of the doubt, but boy howdy. The Beasts Pirates have a LONG way to catch up in terms of competence to the Big Mom Pirates.

Didn't BMP also lose their shit when BM was going berserk? Without a cook of Sanji's caliber helping them cook, I doubt they could've pacified BM

It isn't really true that BP just have Wano. Wano is just their core, but they have plenty of islands under their control. Each with some bosses appointed by Kaido. It was by taking over one of those islands and presumably killing the boss that X Drake got Kaido's attention and became a Tobiroppo.
Maybe you had missed it, IDK. I didn't know this at all, it was something I noticed in my ongoing rewatch. First time around I didn't notice at all, since Kaido was still not officially introduced, and it seemed very minor (like < 5 mins in one of the episodes)


WRT competence, I'd say they are comparable.
Kaido is very scheming as well, took over a very strong country and planned long term with gathering various strong captains under his wing by defeating them. Plus 500 smile users, had great connections in underworld.


Katakuri vs King. Yeah, PL aside, Katakuri is much more competent and much more interesting. No denying it. But Kaido is more competent than BM, so that kinda makes up for it lol.

And obviously, BMP have backup in case BM dies. Katakuri is an amazing leader, and the core of BMP are blood family after all. A lot of them genuinely care about each other.
While BP are centered entirely around Kaido, and is based on natural selection.
In this sense, BMP indeed is a better crew than BP. I agree. My previous post was purely based on speculation of "if you replace BP by BMP right now, how would it have gone?". I would say, it will go as disappointing as we see the current BP going down. I think the Yonko executive tiers of BMP (Ovens, Daifuko etc) will go down even faster than the Tobiroppo! Which is why I said, our perception of each crew are muddied by the phase each were introduced.


And lastly, nah. There is no more reason to give beast pirates any more benefit of the doubt lol. There is just Kaido and King left standing lol (unless Queeen is getting up next chapter, unlikely IMO), they're donezo. And I share your frustration here that they were EXTREMELY disappointing (esp the Tobiroppo and Queen). Jack was the only member who lived upto hype IMO

 

[AmitDS]

Oh, we're back on the BP > BMP because... "reasons" wave, even after we've seen their capabilities...? xD

Funny enough, the burden of proof should be on the BP to prove their strength against other Yonkou crews after their showings in Wano/Onigashima, not the other way around. But the bias just skews perception I guess

Spoiler

And no, King is "secretly Yonkou-levelled and will neg diff Katakuri because I said and believe so" is not an argument

Again, the Yonkou crews are equal with the only probable exception being WB's. I'm having a hard time seeing the BP compete with the other crews ironically enough, but I know, acknowledge and accept that Oda made each crew equal (just like their Yonkou captains) so that should be the end of that.

 

[M3J]

I don't think he's made them equal, per se, just that close to power enough that a low-level pirate crew could beat the winner because of how tired and wounded they'd be

 

[grey matter]

I keep seeing weird obsession with King (definitely nothing to do with obsession on Zoro )
Literally nobody still here is making that argument, but you all can continue on with that attack on Strawman. King is Katakuri tier unless he proves otherwise


Yonko crews being equal is a no. IDK where this is coming from.
It's more like, each are powerful enough that the others don't wanna fuck with them. Cause the moment a fight between any two factions start, another faction can screw both of them over with a timely attack. It's the same reason Marines don't attack any Yonko, even though combined Marine + Shichibukai force is easily the strongest faction in the verse.


We know that Shanks will have a superior crew based on the Marine's description of his crew.
It is possible that BB crew is stronger, because they're mysterious and growing fast. Also for plot reasons. But apart from BB crew, Shanks definitely has the best crew.


And WB's crew blows the current two Yonko crews we know of out of the water, it isn't just a probable exception! Marco is YC1+, Ace and Vista probably YC1 tier, Jozu probably YC2 tier, BB was YC2+ when before defection (gave Shanks scar and was offered the position of YC2), Thatch YC3/4, 10 Tobiroppo tiers (commanders 6-16) and few more Tobiuroppo tiers with allied captains (Oars Jr for eg)


Kaido is the strongest pirate alive. "Strongest creature" "If it is a 1v1, always bet on Kaido" etc. IDK what more Oda has to say to show that Kaido is indeed the strongest. The dude definitely has the portrayal of being the strongest alive character that we know of.
That puts him above BM, Shanks and BB.

 

[AmitDS]

I keep seeing weird obsession with King (definitely nothing to do with obsession on Zoro )
Literally nobody still here is making that argument, but you all can continue on with that attack on Strawman. King is Katakuri tier unless he proves otherwise

So when you bring up Katakuri or try to downplay Big Mom and her crew because you don't like her (shocker you don't like a female character flashes back* to Mirajane & Erza on the ft forum) it's not obsession but when someone references people's BS powerscaling takes about King, it's obsession? Lol ok.

Yonko crews being equal is a no. IDK where this is coming from.
It's more like, each are powerful enough that the others don't wanna fuck with them. Cause the moment a fight between any two factions start, another faction can screw both of them over with a timely attack. It's the same reason Marines don't attack any Yonko, even though combined Marine + Shichibukai force is easily the strongest faction in the verse.

Actually an emperor's crew being inferior or superior to other emperors' crews has no backing in canon since they are portrayed as equals eg. the gorosei stating that Blackbeard and his crew could be stopped by Kaido, Big Mom or Shanks or even Marco with WB's crew AND their captains are the strongest/greatest pirates alive who rule over the New World and fight fight for territory and dominance.

We know that Shanks will have a superior crew based on the Marine's description of his crew.

Um the marines just hinted at his crew having fewer but stronger members. It was never stated or implied that his entire crew > Big Mom or Kaido's entire crew. That's a headcanon.

It is possible that BB crew is stronger, because they're mysterious and growing fast. Also for plot reasons. But apart from BB crew, Shanks definitely has the best crew.

Headcanon. Even if he is he would be the exception as he's special and the EOS villain and you don't even know if he reached that level with his crew yet. And we both know that my post was referring to the emperors regularly i.e. not this hypothetical version of BB that has no support in canon (since as I said the gorosei thinks Shanks, Kaido or Big Mom can stop him).

And WB's crew blows the current two Yonko crews we know of out of the water, it isn't just a probable exception! Marco is YC1+, Ace and Vista probably YC1 tier, Jozu probably YC2 tier, BB was YC2+ when before defection (gave Shanks scar and was offered the position of YC2), Thatch YC3/4, 10 Tobiroppo tiers (commanders 6-16) and few more Tobiuroppo tiers with allied captains (Oars Jr for eg)

Headcanon. WB himself talked about how going up against Kaido and his crew would be disastrous. Add that one to Kaido himself fearing Big Mom with her core members only invading his territory and Oda's intent is clear i.e. any emperor's crew can stalemate any others, thus far. Also you don't know how strong his weak 'commanders' are since people like Izu and his inferiors seem inferior to even Perospero, Drake and Who's Who for example.

Kaido is the strongest pirate alive. "Strongest creature" "If it is a 1v1, always bet on Kaido" etc. IDK what more Oda has to say to show that Kaido is indeed the strongest. The dude definitely has the portrayal of being the strongest alive character that we know of.
That puts him above BM, Shanks and BB.

Didn't Kaido fight Big Mom and Shanks and fail to overpower either?

Didn't he wank Shanks to be like Roger, WB, Rocks and Oden as an enemy who can fight him? Funny because all of these guys were his superiors when he fought them. lol

Didn't he try to kill Big Mom, fight her for 2 days while she lacked Prometheus/Zeus and thus her 'Master of the Land of Souls' form and end up tying with her? The same Big Mom who was competing with Prime WB, Roger & Shiki as they were the 4 strongest/greatest pirates in the New World?

And didn't World's Strongest title holders get equals in the past? eg) Whitebeard was the WSM when he was Roger's equal.

-WSM Whitebeard couldn't beat Roger
-WSC/WSP Kaido couldn't beat Shanks or Big Mom


Relying on these titles never really works out.

 

[Fox666]

Oh, we're back on the BP > BMP because... "reasons" wave, even after we've seen their capabilities...? xD

Funny enough, the burden of proof should be on the BP to prove their strength against other Yonkou crews after their showings in Wano/Onigashima, not the other way around. But the bias just skews perception I guess

Spoiler

And no, King is "secretly Yonkou-levelled and will neg diff Katakuri because I said and believe so" is not an argument

Again, the Yonkou crews are equal with the only probable exception being WB's. I'm having a hard time seeing the BP compete with the other crews ironically enough, but I know, acknowledge and accept that Oda made each crew equal (just like their Yonkou captains) so that should be the end of that.

I'm going to argue that they are not equal, they are almost equal. Just like Kaido is the strongest pirate alive, the Beast Pirates should be the strongest crew.

The Big Mom Pirates just had a much bigger impact. But it's like saying that the New Fish-Man Pirates are weaker than the CP9 because the Straw Hats wiped the floor with them.

--- Double Post Merged, Dec 12, 2021, Original Post Date: Dec 12, 2021 ---

And didn't World's Strongest title holders get equals in the past? eg) Whitebeard was the WSM when he was Roger's equal.

-WSM Whitebeard couldn't beat Roger

The Vivre Cards sometimes get messy regarding stuff like that.

In the manga, Buggy explictly stated Whitebeard is known as the strongest man alive because he was equal to Roger.

 

[Core D. Roy]

That puts him above BM, Shanks and BB.

Looooooooooool Kaidou's 'above' all the other emperors 1v1 because of a catchphrase? C'mon, at the very least, him and Big Mom are obviously portrayed as complete equals, with her in a slightly superior position as the 'older sister' to his dopy cabin boy. Shanks may be weaker than the others, but I have a hard time not putting current Blackbeard above every other emperor.

 

[grey matter]

Looooooooooool Kaidou's 'above' all the other emperors 1v1 because of a catchphrase? C'mon, at the very least, him and Big Mom are obviously portrayed as complete equals, with her in a slightly superior position as the 'older sister' to his dopy cabin boy. Shanks may be weaker than the others, but I have a hard time not putting current Blackbeard above every other emperor.

Not really just a catchphase, but ok.
The 'older sister' is really just based on age, plus position in Rocks crew. It has no bearing on their current PLs.

BB will be, once he gets the third devil fruit (he will probably steal Kaido's).
AS he is currently, I don't think so.

 

[M3J]

Actually an emperor's crew being inferior or superior to other emperors' crews has no backing in canon since they are portrayed as equals eg. the gorosei stating that Blackbeard and his crew could be stopped by Kaido, Big Mom or Shanks or even Marco with WB's crew AND their captains are the strongest/greatest pirates alive who rule over the New World and fight fight for territory and dominance.

Where are they portrayed as exact equals? It's been said that the main reason why they don't fight each other is because they're so close in strength that the winner would take heavy damage. If they were equal then there wouldn't really be winner, just the entire crews wiped out.

 

[AmitDS]

Where are they portrayed as exact equals? It's been said that the main reason why they don't fight each other is because they're so close in strength that the winner would take heavy damage. If they were equal then there wouldn't really be winner, just the entire crews wiped out.

Not how that works. If they are equal then both get wiped out or one barely manages to win but is basically defeated and useless after so, exactly what I said. The latter scenario being possible is evident in the government thinking Kaido, Shanks or Big Mom could each possibly beat Blackbeard and his forces with their own.


While the former is illustrated by the fact that the government thought Big Mom and Kaido would take each other out ie this supports this notion that the 2 are equal and also supports that a crew vs crew scenario or any fight between equal forces could result in both parties devastated, which is exactly what you are talking about.

The fact that one can't guarantee a win over another means that the crews are equal. It's not as simple as it's always going to be a tie where they all KO simultaneously leaving no survivors. Many variables would be at play in a clash between equal forces leading to different outcomes ie it could be a tie or extreme diff either way as people say for battles.

And thinking about it Marco saying that they never tried to invade Wano due to the amount of lives that would be lost supports both scenarios and thus supports the parity among emperors and their crews.

Not sick WB might get the benefit of the doubt as he was called the WSP and his crew called the strongest however they are still on the same level generally as the other emperors and their crews and as such would still not be able to surely win a clash due to the miniscule difference in their power of there really even is a notably one. And even he didn't want to try to war with Kaido.

This need for 'exact equals' and tied results all the time to prove parity is never going to work. It's not how stuff works in OP or even irl. Someone who is your equal can tie with you, lose to you or beat you in a match, game, fight, test or whatever. An emperor and their crew can take down another emperor and theirs, lose extreme diff or win extreme diff with many lives lost in the war. It's what the narrative shows us.

--- Double Post Merged, Dec 12, 2021, Original Post Date: Dec 12, 2021 ---

I'm going to argue that they are not equal, they are almost equal. Just like Kaido is the strongest pirate alive, the Beast Pirates should be the strongest crew.

See this is where this need for 'exact equals' messes people up. If they war either side extreme diff wins or it's a tie hence they are equals. It's not complicated.

Reminds me in the novels when WB has his WSP and WSM title Kaido is simultaneously called the strongest emperor in a 1 vs 1 thus forming a contradiction.

Oda doesn't want people to view Kaido's crew as superior. They aren't portrayed as superior and nothing ever points to them as being the strongest.

No idea why the Western fandom always needs to get someone at 100 and someone at 99.9999999999999...

Being almost equals does what? Story wise it does nothing and it really just gives people bragging rights for their favs. In the manga Whitebeard's crew was called the strongest pre time skip while post time skip no one emperor's crew is called as such and as we saw Kaido's didn't show it. So it's a headcanon that Kaido's crew is marginally stronger than Big Mom BB or Shanks '.

The gorosei views Kaido and his crew the same way they view Big Mom and Shanks with theirs ie each being stated as being able to stop BB. Big Mom views Kaido and his crew just as Shanks and his (in terms of her beating them with Elbaf's army) and past WB as special further supporting that Kaido's was and isn't the strongest. Kaido and his crew doesn't get the same treatment as WB and his and even he was not strong enough to beat another emperor and their crew for sure and without his own devastation.

The Big Mom Pirates just had a much bigger impact. But it's like saying that the New Fish-Man Pirates are weaker than the CP9 because the Straw Hats wiped the floor with them.

Um actually I would argue stuff like Perospero being comparable to Jack as opposed to Cracker being used, as well as the SMILES being, as most would agree, fodder even to weaker characters like random samurai vs Big Mom's enraged army, does skew perception to Kaido's not living up to hype as well as Big Mom's.

The Vivre Cards sometimes get messy regarding stuff like that.

In the manga, Buggy explictly stated Whitebeard is known as the strongest man alive because he was equal to Roger.

Well IIRC Buggy didn't say specifically that he's the strongest because he was equal to Roger. I thought he said WB was a legendary monster who fought Roger to a standstill and he was no doubt the strongest pirate. Which doesn't contradict the VC saying he was the WSM before Roger died.

Also Roger never being called this as well as Shiki who was called Roger's equal never being called this support that it's not a title due to fighting Roger as an equal.

Irl it's probably a title Oda made up so WB wouldn't be inferior to Roger who was PK and he'd have something to set him apart from people like Big Mom, Kaido and even Shiki, as the main cliché, Shonen, male rival for an important character.