One Piece Power Level Discussion Thread

[goldb]

Ground Rules for the Power Level Discussion Thread
​

As always, please follow the guidelines set by the Forum Rules that apply across the board.

It's important that discussions from a current chapter are spoiler tagged until 24h have passed from an english release.

• For the sake of constructive discussion, where and when possible please quote/ source any information you provide. Particularly when it comes to conversations carried over from other threads.
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• We will strive to avoid repetitive discussions and any extensive battle topics will be guided to the Davy Back fight to existing threads or new ones can be made there.

As of now these topics are shelved due to repetitiveness or until the manga can present us with material to further discussions:

1. Shanks v Mihawk
2. Hand to hand fighters > Swordsmen
3. Zoro > Luffy
4. Zoro v Sanji
5. Is Smoker a top 30 character?
6. Mihawk's rank within the story
7. Law having CoC currently.
8. Katakuri > Kaido/Luffy/Etc.

If you wish to continue any of these discussion and remove it from the list, you will need to provide manga material as proof. If there's also anything you think we've covered numerous times, let me know and I'll update the list.

This is the only warning there'll be regarding these ground rules, anything no adhering will be removed. So please just check your posts before posting them.

 

[M3J]

Definitely.

I would put Yonko commander level also there, along with admiral and Yonko. You have to be very strong to be a commander. Though there are more variations within commanders, than within admirals or Yonkos, so maybe debatable

"Shichibukai tier", "Vice admiral tier", "Supernova tier" etc means nothing at all.

I'm not sure about commander level as it does seem to vary, other than them being strong enough to go toe-to-toe with the likes of Luffy and whoever Cracker beat that beat his brother. So far, it seems that the commanders have their own niche that make them dangerous, from Queen's science know-how and enhancing his body to Katakuri's Future Sight. Hell, Marco is great as a support and defense, but I haven't seen him show anything that makes him offensively dangerous.

 

[Lord Traffy Law]

whitebeard had a crazy crew with at least 3/4 yc1 level guys. marco, ace, blackbeard, vista....noone below any of them could have handled whitebeard the way ace did in that episode of ace story. and the cherry on top was aces clash with aokiji... thinking ace is anything lower than yc2 is a crime against humanity

As a german i am kinda used to crimes against humanity.

Ace drawed with Smoker. Had a little skirmish with Aokiji were he had probably even luck that fire>ice. Lost hard to Blackbeard, latter didnt even had wounds and scratches. Got oneshot by Akainu.

But jeah YC1 for sure. Even Queen showed more prowess.

Thats some copium my friend. "He couldnt beat this guy, so he was nerfed"

People pretending like Ace was actually trying to kill or even defeat Smoker

That’s the worst part ace wasn’t interested in putting down smoker , we only have one panel of their fight manga wise , that smoke and fire have a relationship and a fight between them won’t lead to much , it was very very brief skirmish
What’s ace disposition ? He had 0 killing intent towards smoker
However I will push back , ace wasn’t
And I wouldn’t say ace was YC1 but I would agree that Marco and vista are
Blackbeard is 50/50 but he was very very powerful , definitely above YC3 and YC2 and above

 

[grey matter]

I'm not sure about commander level as it does seem to vary, other than them being strong enough to go toe-to-toe with the likes of Luffy and whoever Cracker beat that beat his brother. So far, it seems that the commanders have their own niche that make them dangerous, from Queen's science know-how and enhancing his body to Katakuri's Future Sight. Hell, Marco is great as a support and defense, but I haven't seen him show anything that makes him offensively dangerous.

There are variations within commanders of course. Which is why, we as fans, come up with stuff like "YC1", "YC2" etc lol

Yeah, commanders seem to have something special.
Especially the "right hand man" type commanders. Marco - broken regen/dura, Katakuri -future sight, King - insane defence

Regarding Marco.
Marco actually has good offense as well. It's just that people miss it due to his broken durability/heal, which gets the main focus.

He kicked Kizaru off somewhere, and in most of the war was fighting him off screen about equally (though here, surely his regen came into play), until he got distracted and got seastone cuffed.
He outright matched Akainu's attack power for a while (meant to kill Luffy), though Akainu did overpower him sometime later

His attacks are powerful enough that King bleeds from them. Something Zoro hadn't accomplished so far. (maybe his special flames played a role here, idk)
In the 2v1 versus King and Queen, if you check the panels over the chapters, most of the offense was from Marco himself, inspite of being in a 2v1; while spending energy healing up thousands of soldiers, buying time for Chopper. He didn't fight them for hours by just tanking hits and healing.

That’s the worst part ace wasn’t interested in putting down smoker , we only have one panel of their fight manga wise , that smoke and fire have a relationship and a fight between them won’t lead to much , it was very very brief skirmish
What’s ace disposition ? He had 0 killing intent towards smoker
However I will push back , ace wasn’t
And I wouldn’t say ace was YC1 but I would agree that Marco and vista are
Blackbeard is 50/50 but he was very very powerful , definitely above YC3 and YC2 and above

Yea, I'm definitely not putting Ace above Marco. The dude is YC1+

Regarding Vista, yeah I think Vista is stronger too.
Fighting equally with casual Mihawk (most likely Yonko tier) > equaling an attack from Aokiji. Vista is prob YC1 tier.
But Ace's feats can put him YC2+ IMO


Still, do you consider Ace's feat from the novel legit?
If you do, then it is definitely making a case for Ace being YC1 tier? I mean, he fought casual WB for 5 hours and made him use his DF. Remember that this WB wasn't off his meds for days, is the one referred to as the strongest pirate and has haki rivalling Shanks (arguably the best haki user alive currently)

 

[M3J]

There are variations within commanders of course. Which is why, we as fans, come up with stuff like "YC1", "YC2" etc lol

Yeah, commanders seem to have something special.
Especially the "right hand man" type commanders. Marco - broken regen/dura, Katakuri -future sight, King - insane defence

Regarding Marco.
Marco actually has good offense as well. It's just that people miss it due to his broken durability/heal, which gets the main focus.

He kicked Kizaru off somewhere, and in most of the war was fighting him off screen about equally (though here, surely his regen came into play), until he got distracted and got seastone cuffed.
He outright matched Akainu's attack power for a while (meant to kill Luffy), though Akainu did overpower him sometime later

His attacks are powerful enough that King bleeds from them. Something Zoro hadn't accomplished so far. (maybe his special flames played a role here, idk)
In the 2v1 versus King and Queen, if you check the panels over the chapters, most of the offense was from Marco himself, inspite of being in a 2v1; while spending energy healing up thousands of soldiers, buying time for Chopper. He didn't fight them for hours by just tanking hits and healing.

Which still doesn't make sense, because the commanders can vary in strength while being the strongest in their crew but still weak overall.


Ah I forgot about King bleeding, it's just that I don't remember Marco dealing good enough damage in general, but he hasn't fought anyone weaker than a commander I guess, so it makes sense.

 

[Lord Traffy Law]

There are variations within commanders of course. Which is why, we as fans, come up with stuff like "YC1", "YC2" etc lol

Yeah, commanders seem to have something special.
Especially the "right hand man" type commanders. Marco - broken regen/dura, Katakuri -future sight, King - insane defence

Regarding Marco.
Marco actually has good offense as well. It's just that people miss it due to his broken durability/heal, which gets the main focus.

He kicked Kizaru off somewhere, and in most of the war was fighting him off screen about equally (though here, surely his regen came into play), until he got distracted and got seastone cuffed.
He outright matched Akainu's attack power for a while (meant to kill Luffy), though Akainu did overpower him sometime later

His attacks are powerful enough that King bleeds from them. Something Zoro hadn't accomplished so far. (maybe his special flames played a role here, idk)
In the 2v1 versus King and Queen, if you check the panels over the chapters, most of the offense was from Marco himself, inspite of being in a 2v1; while spending energy healing up thousands of soldiers, buying time for Chopper. He didn't fight them for hours by just tanking hits and healing.



Yea, I'm definitely not putting Ace above Marco. The dude is YC1+

Regarding Vista, yeah I think Vista is stronger too.
Fighting equally with casual Mihawk (most likely Yonko tier) > equaling an attack from Aokiji. Vista is prob YC1 tier.
But Ace's feats can put him YC2+ IMO


Still, do you consider Ace's feat from the novel legit?
If you do, then it is definitely making a case for Ace being YC1 tier? I mean, he fought casual WB for 5 hours and made him use his DF. Remember that this WB wasn't off his meds for days, is the one referred to as the strongest pirate and has haki rivalling Shanks (arguably the best haki user alive currently)

I consider it somewhat cannon
Remember whitebeard while serious was in more of a sensei teaching a gifted student
Whitebeard wasn’t trying to hurt him
Shanks and whitebeard both considered ace strong
However Blackbeard was so powerful that he was commander level even before getting the fruit as Ace suggested that why doesn’t he become commander, as well as shanks saying himself that Blackbeard was very poweful ? As well him then getting the amazing fruit which nerfed aces greatest asset his fire abilities
Heck next was his death at akainu , don’t get me wrong akainu out classes him but ace probably could hang better in a better situation or escape in another , he threw himself to protect luffy

I think shanks and whitebeard both saw pirate king potential in ace , he was special and gifted fighter

 

[Rmstorm]

@albertwv

Bro, just stop and think for a moment.

This dude was Jinbe level WHEN HE JOINED the Whitebeard pirates. When he was beginning of series Luffy's age

Jinbe probably had peaked by then, since he was like 40 years old while it happened. We can assume any improvement for Jinbe since then is only marginal.

current Jinbe = YC3 tier, or at minimum borderline YC3 tier.
I think even you agree here

Ace at 17 years old was at minimum borderline YC3 tier
Are you telling me that this dude, with his insane genetics + 2-3 years training, didn't get past YC3 tier. Where he already was, at 17 years old?

Even saying he's just YC2 tier is low balling him, but still somewhat understandable. YC3 is outright downplay, and I don't even know what to say about the "Ace is Tobiroppo tier" lol (like, 17 year old Ace ~ Jinbe > every Tobiroppo member)



I don't think anyone but YC1s and above can outright match an admiral's attack, even if the admiral isn't going all out. (Jozu an exception cause he specialize in defence)
And it easn't like Ace went all out either to match Aokiji's attack

Ice vs magma is better than fire vs magma.
At least with ice, you can freeze it if your ice is cold enough, And block it if ice is thick enough

What will fire do against magma lol, magma = fire + molten rock. Unless you're reaching actual sun level temperature or something with your flames, you aren't vaporizing magma!
(We did see Marco matching an attack from Akainu, but phoenix flames are special)
It was a complete mismatch for Ace


***********************

Let me ask you one thing.

Do you consider the novel legit?

If you do, then the case for Ace being at least borderline YC1 tier is self explanatory.




Ace was borderline YC3 tier at 17 years old.......

Ace was 18 when he entered the New World. This is revealed in the Ace Novel.

 

[Crimson Ice]

As a german i am kinda used to crimes against humanity.

Ace drawed with Smoker. Had a little skirmish with Aokiji were he had probably even luck that fire>ice. Lost hard to Blackbeard, latter didnt even had wounds and scratches. Got oneshot by Akainu.

But jeah YC1 for sure. Even Queen showed more prowess.

Ace tying with Smoker NEVER happened. Love how you acknowledge the devil fruit matchup for Ace vs Kuzan but ignore it for the Ace vs Smoker matchup which never happened.

 

[albertwv]

Ace tying with Smoker NEVER happened. Love how you acknowledge the devil fruit matchup for Ace vs Kuzan but ignore it for the Ace vs Smoker matchup which never happened.

Yet you ignore the fact that Ace is overprotective of Luffy and takes anyone who attempts to harm Luffy seriously. I will give you examples: Bluejam, Ace stayed behind with Dadan to protect Luffy from Bluejam. BB, Ace was chasing BB but after BB told him he was going after Luffy, Ace got even more pissed, Akainu, Ace could have ran away but was pissed off because of the WB's comments and jumped to protect luffy.

@grey matter
Point is, Ace is super over protective over Luffy to the point that he will go out of his way to protect him. Yet he only blocked Smoker's attack but didnt bother going after him/beating him up? Sounds suspicious. Your answer to that is: Ace wasnt mad enough at Smoker? LMAO that is hilarious

Nobody has given examples from the manga that Ace is YC1 or YC2. That too is hilarious.
Like I said before and will repeat it since people choose to ignore it, I do not count the vivre cards, databooks, novels as reliable information. Rather only the manga.
So @ anybody, do not come at me with the novel because I wont take you seriously. Him fighting WB in the novel means nothing.

@BoyNextDoor I like how you just threw out a claim with no supporting evidence. Source: trust me bro. LMAO

 

[Lord Traffy Law]

Yet you ignore the fact that Ace is overprotective of Luffy and takes anyone who attempts to harm Luffy seriously. I will give you examples: Bluejam, Ace stayed behind with Dadan to protect Luffy from Bluejam. BB, Ace was chasing BB but after BB told him he was going after Luffy, Ace got even more pissed, Akainu, Ace could have ran away but was pissed off because of the WB's comments and jumped to protect luffy.

@grey matter
Point is, Ace is super over protective over Luffy to the point that he will go out of his way to protect him. Yet he only blocked Smoker's attack but didnt bother going after him/beating him up? Sounds suspicious. Your answer to that is: Ace wasnt mad enough at Smoker? LMAO that is hilarious

Nobody has given examples from the manga that Ace is YC1 or YC2. That too is hilarious.
Like I said before and will repeat it since people choose to ignore it, I do not count the vivre cards, databooks, novels as reliable information. Rather only the manga.
So @ anybody, do not come at me with the novel because I wont take you seriously. Him fighting WB in the novel means nothing.

@BoyNextDoor I like how you just threw out a claim with no supporting evidence. Source: trust me bro. LMAO

Yeah Blackbeard was trying to kill ace and set his sights on luffy after he killed thatch that’s not anyway the same
A marine trying to capture luffy isn’t the same ballpark at all
The exchange between was very very casual relatively, we know when ace is pissed , he wasn’t the same vitriol against smoker
The manga says ace says their power cancel out , and then like 5 minutes ace rejoins luffy. It’s not the same showdown

 

[Crimson Ice]

Yet you ignore the fact that Ace is overprotective of Luffy and takes anyone who attempts to harm Luffy seriously. I will give you examples: Bluejam, Ace stayed behind with Dadan to protect Luffy from Bluejam. BB, Ace was chasing BB but after BB told him he was going after Luffy, Ace got even more pissed, Akainu, Ace could have ran away but was pissed off because of the WB's comments and jumped to protect luffy.

Yet you ignore what the manga showed. Ace was furious at Bluejam, but if you use ya head for a minute you'd see that Ace had more reason to be as his gang beat the STUFFING out of Luffy. Smoker didn't even harm Luffy nor was Ace mad. GIVE ALL THE EXAMPLES YOU WANT! Ace and Smoker never fought nor was Ace mad when he stopped Smoker and the Marines, Ace is literally grinning when he does it.

Spoiler: Does he look Mad?

You ARE DOWNPLAYING ACE OFF A FIGHT THAT NEVER HAPPENED! I'm not the one ignoring the MANGA, YOU ARE! I saw you LITERALLY ignore the Ace novel because it wasn't the primary cannon yet here you are using an anime filler fight as evidence.

 

[grey matter]

I consider it somewhat cannon
Remember whitebeard while serious was in more of a sensei teaching a gifted student
Whitebeard wasn’t trying to hurt him
Shanks and whitebeard both considered ace strong
However Blackbeard was so powerful that he was commander level even before getting the fruit as Ace suggested that why doesn’t he become commander, as well as shanks saying himself that Blackbeard was very poweful ? As well him then getting the amazing fruit which nerfed aces greatest asset his fire abilities
Heck next was his death at akainu , don’t get me wrong akainu out classes him but ace probably could hang better in a better situation or escape in another , he threw himself to protect luffy

I think shanks and whitebeard both saw pirate king potential in ace , he was special and gifted fighter

I see. So you're saying him fighting WB for hours doesn't mean he's YC1 tier, since WB wasn't gonna harm him too much anyway.
WB was serious in the sense he was using his powers seriously. But not in a way which harms Ace lethally

Ywah, BB was definitely at min YC2 tier before getting the fruit
He gave Shanks a scar in legitimate combat, and was considered strong enough to be offered 2nd division commander position.
They even took note that he deliberately didn't go for commander positions

Ace giving BB with fruit a high diff while being in disadvantage does kinda show he's YC2+ ?

@grey matter
Point is, Ace is super over protective over Luffy to the point that he will go out of his way to protect him. Yet he only blocked Smoker's attack but didnt bother going after him/beating him up? Sounds suspicious. Your answer to that is: Ace wasnt mad enough at Smoker? LMAO that is hilarious

Nobody has given examples from the manga that Ace is YC1 or YC2. That too is hilarious.
Like I said before and will repeat it since people choose to ignore it, I do not count the vivre cards, databooks, novels as reliable information. Rather only the manga.
So @ anybody, do not come at me with the novel because I wont take you seriously. Him fighting WB in the novel means nothing.

That was the uncultured kid Ace. Ace then was taught manners by Makino. He doesn't get angry like that anymore. Plus Bluejam actually beat the shit out of Luffy.
Ace now also knows Luffy is a big boy.
Surely you can't look at Ace facing Smoker and say he was serious or angry? The dude was trolling lmao.



Yeah, I'm not even using databook or novel as an argument anymore. These two are my main points:
- Fact: Ace ~ Jinbe at 17 years old.
Jinbe ~ YC3 or borderline YC3. Tell me if you disagree here
17 year old Ace ~ Jinbe ~ YC3 tier
Unless you're arguing that Ace didn't grow much in the next 2-3 years, him being YC2 tier is a bare minimum.

- Fact: Ace equalled attack from Aokiji
No, Fire > Ice is pokemon logic. Real logic suggests Ice is FAR MORE effective against fire than water (depending on how cold the Ice is). You need more energy to cancel (i.e vapourize) ice than water.
This was even emphasized and the fodders around took note, claiming they have no chance against someone who could match an admiral's attack.
This is moreso in line with Marco's feat of equalling attack power of Akainu. Than with Jozu tanking hits from Aokiji (considering Jozu specialized in defence)
Obviously Marco > Ace. But this feat suggests Ace is YC2+, Cancelling out an admiral's attack is no joke.


Ace also gave BB a high diff fight inspite of being in DF disadvantage.
And BB was very strong even before getting a DF. He was offered the position of 2nd commander before Ace, and gave Shanks a scar in legitimate combat

--- Double Post Merged, Dec 16, 2021, Original Post Date: Dec 16, 2021 ---

Heck next was his death at akainu , don’t get me wrong akainu out classes him but ace probably could hang better in a better situation or escape in another , he threw himself to protect luffy

Yep, exactly!

They both traded blows earlier. Obviously Akainu overpowered him and sent him flying.

But an Ace who isn't looking to save Luffy wouldn't take that blow without any defence and get a donut. If that attack came directly at him, he would simply defend it - take some damage and be sent flying. But not die

 

[I Am Atomic]

Also adding to everyone's point, Ace wasn't in his prime state in Marineford. Dude was beaten up by BB and not even recovered by being in ID (not like they treat him with all the food and heal him).

Magma fruit is superior to Ace's Mera no mi, so Akainu had that advantage on top of being stronger.

I completely agree that Ace is YC2 or higher. Oda couldn't show that because it was early in the series.

Main point is him holding off Jinbei at 17 years old. Something even Luffy couldn't do until recently and he is 19.

Ace Vs Smoker debate shouldn't even be a debate. Talk about being stubborn

 

[albertwv]

Okay then I'll drop the Ace vs Smoker . if y'all drop the Ace vs Aokiji, acting as if Ace's power was strong to match up agaisnt Aokiji. It may look like that but we later found out that Aokiji was equal to Akainu, who was vastly superior to Ace. So you cannot say Ace is near YC2 because he blocked Aokiji's ice attack. If Aokiji was serious or kept going after Ace, Ace would have been toasted.
If Aokiji's ice could somehow handle Akainu's magma for 10 days, I'm sure Ace's fire would be no real problem for Aokiji's ice in an actual battle.

Jimbei being YC3, I kinda find it hard to believe so. I say this because in Fishman Island, g2 Luffy and Jimbei went at it and it seem they were equal. Then we see G2 Luffy struggle vs Doffy and pulling out the G4 and destroyed Doffy. Obviously G4 Luffy would destroy Jimbei as well, I believe so.
I find it hard to believe that Jimbei is superior to Doffy, the guy really hasnt showed feats that can topple Doffy or Cracker.
So I disagree that Jimbei is YC3, he is more like YC4.

BB being YC2 before his DF, meh I disagree. BB was NOT offered the 2nd DC position by anyone. Ace suggested it since he had been there forever/ he was senior to Ace so Ace just wondered. It's not like WB or Marcos offered BB the position. BB's problem is that he underestimates his opponents thus allowing them to deal damage to him.
BB vs Shanks as a hype factor for BB, I dont necessarily buy into it. One thing, Shanks did acknowledge BB as a worthy opponent, saying he didnt scar him using underhanded tactics. BUT, this was before Shanks became a Yonko. Shanks had the scar since 12 years ago, we don't know how WHEN Shanks received the scar.
What I am trying to say is, Shanks could have been a Rookie when he fought BB. All we know is they met during Roger vs WB last fight and between then and up to the beginning of the series (12 years ago) they fought. We're not sure how strong Shanks was 12 years ago but not Yonko level.

 

[XXGenesis]

Haki has introduced a power system where we are power scailing characters. Where One Piece was very much about match ups….

Fire vs Ice….it’s an even match up. Now when we power scale Kuzan. Ace does not match up physically. & in terms of DF power Kuzan as shown in the narrative; Can compete with an element above Ace, so he can overpower Ace DF despite them being equal.

One Piece still is about matchups to an extent, as we’ve seen with the big Cracker debate. Still yet once a character is significantly stronger matchups don’t matter.

 

[Lord Traffy Law]

Okay then I'll drop the Ace vs Smoker . if y'all drop the Ace vs Aokiji, acting as if Ace's power was strong to match up agaisnt Aokiji. It may look like that but we later found out that Aokiji was equal to Akainu, who was vastly superior to Ace. So you cannot say Ace is near YC2 because he blocked Aokiji's ice attack. If Aokiji was serious or kept going after Ace, Ace would have been toasted.
If Aokiji's ice could somehow handle Akainu's magma for 10 days, I'm sure Ace's fire would be no real problem for Aokiji's ice in an actual battle.

Jimbei being YC3, I kinda find it hard to believe so. I say this because in Fishman Island, g2 Luffy and Jimbei went at it and it seem they were equal. Then we see G2 Luffy struggle vs Doffy and pulling out the G4 and destroyed Doffy. Obviously G4 Luffy would destroy Jimbei as well, I believe so.
I find it hard to believe that Jimbei is superior to Doffy, the guy really hasnt showed feats that can topple Doffy or Cracker.
So I disagree that Jimbei is YC3, he is more like YC4.

BB being YC2 before his DF, meh I disagree. BB was NOT offered the 2nd DC position by anyone. Ace suggested it since he had been there forever/ he was senior to Ace so Ace just wondered. It's not like WB or Marcos offered BB the position. BB's problem is that he underestimates his opponents thus allowing them to deal damage to him.
BB vs Shanks as a hype factor for BB, I dont necessarily buy into it. One thing, Shanks did acknowledge BB as a worthy opponent, saying he didnt scar him using underhanded tactics. BUT, this was before Shanks became a Yonko. Shanks had the scar since 12 years ago, we don't know how WHEN Shanks received the scar.
What I am trying to say is, Shanks could have been a Rookie when he fought BB. All we know is they met during Roger vs WB last fight and between then and up to the beginning of the series (12 years ago) they fought. We're not sure how strong Shanks was 12 years ago but not Yonko level.

Ace isn’t strong enough for aokiji, but he has a good fruit which makes him able to fight and clash and with him

 

[M3J]

Nobody has given examples from the manga that Ace is YC1 or YC2. That too is hilarious.

What level did you consider Blackbeard around that time, before he got Whitebeard's devil fruit? I mean, Ace was such a good fighter that even Blackbeard and Van Auger complimented his ability to fight, and especially as a user who couldn't use his devil fruit, while Blackbeard could.

How would you rate Jinbei's strength? Because despite having an advantage over a fruit user, a fire fruit user at that, he and Ace had a draw, which shows Ace's strength as well.

I don't think it's possible to conclude anything from Ace vs. Smoker as we never saw them fight. Ace stayed behind to stop Smoker from going after Luffy, and the next time we see him is on the ship, completely fine and healthy. Why would Ace stay and beat Smoker when he wanted to meet Luffy again and didn't want to get in trouble with the Marines? Plus, Whitebeard himself said he was grooming Ace to be the next Pirate King, no? So that should mean Ace was a lot stronger than we thought.

 

[grey matter]

Okay then I'll drop the Ace vs Smoker . if y'all drop the Ace vs Aokiji, acting as if Ace's power was strong to match up agaisnt Aokiji. It may look like that but we later found out that Aokiji was equal to Akainu, who was vastly superior to Ace. So you cannot say Ace is near YC2 because he blocked Aokiji's ice attack. If Aokiji was serious or kept going after Ace, Ace would have been toasted.
If Aokiji's ice could somehow handle Akainu's magma for 10 days, I'm sure Ace's fire would be no real problem for Aokiji's ice in an actual battle.

Jimbei being YC3, I kinda find it hard to believe so. I say this because in Fishman Island, g2 Luffy and Jimbei went at it and it seem they were equal. Then we see G2 Luffy struggle vs Doffy and pulling out the G4 and destroyed Doffy. Obviously G4 Luffy would destroy Jimbei as well, I believe so.
I find it hard to believe that Jimbei is superior to Doffy, the guy really hasnt showed feats that can topple Doffy or Cracker.
So I disagree that Jimbei is YC3, he is more like YC4.

BB being YC2 before his DF, meh I disagree. BB was NOT offered the 2nd DC position by anyone. Ace suggested it since he had been there forever/ he was senior to Ace so Ace just wondered. It's not like WB or Marcos offered BB the position. BB's problem is that he underestimates his opponents thus allowing them to deal damage to him.
BB vs Shanks as a hype factor for BB, I dont necessarily buy into it. One thing, Shanks did acknowledge BB as a worthy opponent, saying he didnt scar him using underhanded tactics. BUT, this was before Shanks became a Yonko. Shanks had the scar since 12 years ago, we don't know how WHEN Shanks received the scar.
What I am trying to say is, Shanks could have been a Rookie when he fought BB. All we know is they met during Roger vs WB last fight and between then and up to the beginning of the series (12 years ago) they fought. We're not sure how strong Shanks was 12 years ago but not Yonko level.

Why should we drop it? Unlike Ace vs Smoker, which was off screen. Ace vs Aokiji happened on screen. Ace actually cancelled out Aokiji's attack.
Aokiji is a better matchup against Akainu than Ace. Fire can't do anything against magma. Ice can
Akainu >= Aokiji >> Ace overall. But their DF usage is kinda similar level.


Jinbe mid-high diff'd the Tobiroppo having the highest bounty. Of course highest bounty not necessarily equates to highest strength, but we can safely assume he's one of the stronger Tobiroppos
Jinbe is YC3 tier, or at least borderline that level.
And again. Ace reached this level at the same age as BOS Luffy. And he then grew stronger under the WB pirates, getting inputs from the strongest alive pirate himself and some of the other strongest characters in the verse. You think he didn't grow greatly in these 2-3 years?


Nah, he was offered but rejected. Ace asked him about it for a reason you know? He wouldn't be asking some senior plebs about it, for eg. It is even mentioned in the series that BB never tried for climbing up the ladder, and was content with his position.
BB vs Shanks isn't just some hype, BB actually scarred him in legitimate combat. It is a FEAT, it happened. You can chose to ignore hype/statements cause at least you can reason it as being characters' opinions , but you cannot choose to ignore something that actually happened.
Shanks and BB are around same age. It obviously didn't happen when Shanks was some weakling, or else there would be no need for Shanks to worry about it. Shanks greatly respected BB's powers and basically said to WB that he better stop Ace or the dude is about to take a massive L that will change the era
BB 100% was a commander level character before getting the fruit. I mean, just think about it for a moment. If some weak character got 2 powerful DFs, will he suddenly jump to Yonko tier? Of course BB was strong without fruit to begin with!

 

[Sachsenhesse]

Ace giving BB with fruit a high diff

... what? I know that coming misconception but look at the panels of these fights. Especially in the end. Ace is bloody, beaten and at his limit, while BB is playing around and doesnt have a scratch.

 

[Crimson Ice]

Okay then I'll drop the Ace vs Smoker . if y'all drop the Ace vs Aokiji, acting as if Ace's power was strong to match up agaisnt Aokiji. It may look like that but we later found out that Aokiji was equal to Akainu, who was vastly superior to Ace. So you cannot say Ace is near YC2 because he blocked Aokiji's ice attack. If Aokiji was serious or kept going after Ace, Ace would have been toasted.
If Aokiji's ice could somehow handle Akainu's magma for 10 days, I'm sure Ace's fire would be no real problem for Aokiji's ice in an actual battle.

Jimbei being YC3, I kinda find it hard to believe so. I say this because in Fishman Island, g2 Luffy and Jimbei went at it and it seem they were equal. Then we see G2 Luffy struggle vs Doffy and pulling out the G4 and destroyed Doffy. Obviously G4 Luffy would destroy Jimbei as well, I believe so.
I find it hard to believe that Jimbei is superior to Doffy, the guy really hasnt showed feats that can topple Doffy or Cracker.
So I disagree that Jimbei is YC3, he is more like YC4.

BB being YC2 before his DF, meh I disagree. BB was NOT offered the 2nd DC position by anyone. Ace suggested it since he had been there forever/ he was senior to Ace so Ace just wondered. It's not like WB or Marcos offered BB the position. BB's problem is that he underestimates his opponents thus allowing them to deal damage to him.
BB vs Shanks as a hype factor for BB, I dont necessarily buy into it. One thing, Shanks did acknowledge BB as a worthy opponent, saying he didnt scar him using underhanded tactics. BUT, this was before Shanks became a Yonko. Shanks had the scar since 12 years ago, we don't know how WHEN Shanks received the scar.
What I am trying to say is, Shanks could have been a Rookie when he fought BB. All we know is they met during Roger vs WB last fight and between then and up to the beginning of the series (12 years ago) they fought. We're not sure how strong Shanks was 12 years ago but not Yonko level.

No, one happened and one didn't. What type of logic is that?

 

[Fox666]

Okay then I'll drop the Ace vs Smoker . if y'all drop the Ace vs Aokiji, acting as if Ace's power was strong to match up agaisnt Aokiji. It may look like that but we later found out that Aokiji was equal to Akainu, who was vastly superior to Ace. So you cannot say Ace is near YC2 because he blocked Aokiji's ice attack. If Aokiji was serious or kept going after Ace, Ace would have been toasted.
If Aokiji's ice could somehow handle Akainu's magma for 10 days, I'm sure Ace's fire would be no real problem for Aokiji's ice in an actual battle.

It has nothing to do with their individual strength, but their Devil Fruit powers. Mr. 3 could block Magellan's poison, but it doesn't mean Mr. 3 was on his level.

Apparently the Admirals were strong enough to have a arm-wrestling match against Whitebeard, Ace not so much.

Regarding Smoker, he probably was not meant to be on Ace's level to begin with.

However, the author had no idea how crazy the power levels would get in Arabasta arc. Just like Luffy defeated Crocodile, maybe Smoker could give Ace somewhat of a fight in Arabasta... Smoker got many times stronger until the Marineford arc, and now he has only 1/10 of Ace's strength.