Hangout Tower of God Hangout & Q/A Thread

[Theorist05]

Ayo, there’s a rumor that solo leveling might receive an anime adaptation.

 

[lazybum]

Tower of God - [Season 2] Ep. 309

What do you desire? Money and wealth? Honor and pride? Authority and power? Revenge? Or something that transcends them all? Whatever you desire—it's here.

www.webtoons.com

Adori wanted to do all 3 orders. Some Zahard administrative folks complain she is stubborn, and that "the fact she's capable of doing that is what makes her scary.".

To clarify, what is being said here is Adori crazy enough to do all 3 orders even if it's difficult/impossible to achieve, or that Adori is able to accomplish all 3 orders? In the latter case, that means Adori is able to fight and win over a family head.

 

[Jubei_Kibagami]

Tower of God - [Season 2] Ep. 309

What do you desire? Money and wealth? Honor and pride? Authority and power? Revenge? Or something that transcends them all? Whatever you desire—it's here.

www.webtoons.com

Adori wanted to do all 3 orders. Some Zahard administrative folks complain she is stubborn, and that "the fact she's capable of doing that is what makes her scary.".

To clarify, what is being said here is Adori crazy enough to do all 3 orders even if it's difficult/impossible to achieve, or that Adori is able to accomplish all 3 orders? In the latter case, that means Adori is able to fight and win over a family head.

My take is this, take for what that's worth.

Both those things are true - she's scary due to her monstrous strength which enables her to complete any task ordered of her AND she's 'crazy' enough to do all 3 tasks even if only 1 of the 3 is required. Because she's just THAT devoted to her job/Zahard (seems a bit sus, but we like to suspect everyone of being a double-agent, don't we?)

The 1 order of the 3 to destroy the Po Bidau family has been speculated about a lot. Some think Adori could *possibly* accomplish that all the way up to the FH, Gustang, if just not kill him (but perhaps best him in battle or restrain him). Others think that just meant wiping out the Po Bidau that COULD be killed - i.e., everyone but Gustang.

Either way, she's at least capable of everyone in his household save the FH. But, then that gets into the argument of whether the strongest regulars (out of billions, or trillions of tower-born, the ones with ranks as high as FHs) can match or surpass a FH in combat. Notice I didn't say 'kill'... but this is a can of worms/landmine you don't want to step on because the same arguments come up every time.



Also: why would Zahard order a task that's impossible to complete? It could be he was sending a message to Gustang. It could be he was presenting it as a false option, knowing the others would then be selected. It could be he just wanted to see who his allies in the military were or weren't and where their allegiances lie, based on their reaction. It could be all 3 of those things, or something else. Or it could simply be Adori has the ability to accomplish them all, including Gustang. Personally, I think she's a female clone of Zahard, which puts her in the same strata of irregulars. The immortality contract is a separate issue then.

 

[paulbee]

What would happen if a Jahad princess makes a Baby with a 10GF member. I mean, little Anak was pretty strong as a Regular because her mother had Jahad Juice, but Imagine if another Irregular (Khun likes da girls) secretly makes a baby with a Jahad Princess like Garam. Enquiring minds want to know, right?

It is kind of strange that besides Vee and Arlen, there is no other record of Two 10FHs making babies besides Gustang and Eurasia (both wave controllers). It could be really rad if Enne or Yuri manufactures a kid with Adult Bam.

 

[Jubei_Kibagami]

What would happen if a Jahad princess makes a Baby with a 10GF member. I mean, little Anak was pretty strong as a Regular because her mother had Jahad Juice, but Imagine if another Irregular (Khun likes da girls) secretly makes a baby with a Jahad Princess like Garam. Enquiring minds want to know, right?

It is kind of strange that besides Vee and Arlen, there is no other record of Two 10FHs making babies besides Gustang and Eurasia (both wave controllers). It could be really rad if Enne or Yuri manufactures a kid with Adult Bam.

There's also the Ha Yurin twins which are full-blooded irregulars. Genetically-speaking at least.

I guess it gets into bloodlines being watered-down. I doubt the child of a princess retains the same potency, being halved. If the father was also an irregular, the offspring could be half-irregular and half princess power, so possibly stronger than a princess but weaker than a full-blooded irregular (as all princesses except Enne also have tower blood as far as we know).

Baam having a child with Enne however... would be only irregular blood.

25% Gustang
25% Blossom
25% V
25% Arlen

Plus whatever amount the Zahard blood displaces of the total volume lol

 

[kkck]

Back then I sort of got the impression that all 3 orders still amounted to being the same thing. Because of how interconnected those 3 are. IIRC the orders were:

1.- Kill everyone in the hell train.
2.- Kill fug.
3.- Kill the po bidao family.

From that we have a rather complex web of relationships... At the time in the hell train you had a rather varied assortment of regulars, rankers and high rankers. Bam as a slayer candidate, multiple great family members (including at least koon and eurasia iirc), evan, yuri, karaka to name the more relevant folk.

So if bam is seriously targeted that is surely going to get in fug's radar (though there is the issue of a response time). By this time we already knew gustang had an interest in bam. And rachel as well. On top of that its fairly clear from this arc that there are even more parties than this interested in bam. Including at least traumerei.

Karaka has his own faction within fug. And while slayers and elders aren't exactly an unified front they generally aren't keen on their members being obliterated.

Yuri is a ha princess... So the empire can't just act without regard for what the ha have to say about it.

Kill fug? Fug has all the slayers and elders both of whom are deeply connected to the tower's history. Even members of the 10 families are there. Jinsung seems influential enough to have impacted the course of the war as a hostage... Gustang might have his own ties to fug. let alone that this would include bam which comes with all the trouble I mentioned earlier.

I don't think I need to elaborate on how killing the po bida is just an utter shitshow.

My impression here is ultimately that choosing one order and choosing 3 is not all that different. Adori wise this leaves the question of whether she picked all 3 because she is an unhinged lunatic or because she realized the choice is meaningless.

There's also the Ha Yurin twins which are full-blooded irregulars. Genetically-speaking at least.

I guess it gets into bloodlines being watered-down. I doubt the child of a princess retains the same potency, being halved. If the father was also an irregular, the offspring could be half-irregular and half princess power, so possibly stronger than a princess but weaker than a full-blooded irregular (as all princesses except Enne also have tower blood as far as we know).

Baam having a child with Enne however... would be only irregular blood.

25% Gustang
25% Blossom
25% V
25% Arlen

Plus whatever amount the Zahard blood displaces of the total volume lol

I don't think it's necessarily the case that being further down the family tree necessarily means you produce weaker children. Elaine seems to be a few generations removed from the family head at least and yet she was deemed talented enough to be a princess. Let alone her inheriting a very rare and powerful skill. The three strongest families remain the arie, koon and ha... and out of those only hon and eduan are actively producing children. All ha in turn come from yurin's twins.. Ultimately it's a genetic lotery. You are either born with the family's attributes or you are born bad.

On that note, I don't think the regular status itself is genetic. To me it seems mostly irrelevant...

 

[Jubei_Kibagami]

I don't think it's necessarily the case that being further down the family tree necessarily means you produce weaker children. Elaine seems to be a few generations removed from the family head at least and yet she was deemed talented enough to be a princess. Let alone her inheriting a very rare and powerful skill. The three strongest families remain the arie, koon and ha... and out of those only hon and eduan are actively producing children. All ha in turn come from yurin's twins.. Ultimately it's a genetic lotery. You are either born with the family's attributes or you are born bad.

On that note, I don't think the regular status itself is genetic. To me it seems mostly irrelevant...

I don't generally disagree with your takeaway, but it's pretty much understood the first gen offspring are pretty powerful. Now, maybe that's because they have had the most time to age compared to current offspring, but it could also be due to genetics. Or both.

We also don't know how this relates to irregular blood specifically. It's simply an unknown variable. And princesses by extension.

It's inarguable that the genetic component is watered down more and more with each subsequent generation.

If a Ha twin had a kid, that then had a kid with a tower native, that in turn did the same, that Ha/Ari blood from the great-grandparent (the twin) is certainly not as prevalent. Does that equate to loss of potency? Who knows. But I'd say 'yes'. I don't think it's a coincidence that Enne was so powerful in such a short period of time, not having the 10's of thousands of years to age and get stronger.

 

[kkck]

I don't generally disagree with your takeaway, but it's pretty much understood the first gen offspring are pretty powerful. Now, maybe that's because they have had the most time to age compared to current offspring, but it could also be due to genetics. Or both.

We also don't know how this relates to irregular blood specifically. It's simply an unknown variable. And princesses by extension.

It's inarguable that the genetic component is watered down more and more with each subsequent generation.

If a Ha twin had a kid, that then had a kid with a tower native, that in turn did the same, that Ha/Ari blood from the great-grandparent (the twin) is certainly not as prevalent. Does that equate to loss of potency? Who knows. But I'd say 'yes'. I don't think it's a coincidence that Enne was so powerful in such a short period of time, not having the 10's of thousands of years to age and get stronger.

It depends? There's a ton of relevant bloodlines in the tower even outside of the great families. I suppose mascheny is a weird example over her being a daughter of eduan but her parent's blood did produce a more potent version of the lightning spear in her and also ran. It's not a stretch that this could be a thing further down the family tree. In any case, cheonhe appears to be at least yurin's great grandchild (yurin --> twin --->mama cheonhe maybe? ---> cheonhe) and she is still a high ranker. I suppose she could be a daughter of one of the twins but it's hard to imagine one of the family's original baby makers just not giving a shit about a kid, let alone a talented one. Kaiser is extremely talented and she seems to be even further away from the family head.

I won't deny the convenience of having two family head parents but we shouldn't write off generations further down the line. What happens further down depends on who breeds with whom and a dice roll.

 

[Jubei_Kibagami]

It depends? There's a ton of relevant bloodlines in the tower even outside of the great families. I suppose mascheny is a weird example over her being a daughter of eduan but her parent's blood did produce a more potent version of the lightning spear in her and also ran. It's not a stretch that this could be a thing further down the family tree. In any case, cheonhe appears to be at least yurin's great grandchild (yurin --> twin --->mama cheonhe maybe? ---> cheonhe) and she is still a high ranker. I suppose she could be a daughter of one of the twins but it's hard to imagine one of the family's original baby makers just not giving a shit about a kid, let alone a talented one. Kaiser is extremely talented and she seems to be even further away from the family head.

I won't deny the convenience of having two family head parents but we shouldn't write off generations further down the line. What happens further down depends on who breeds with whom and a dice roll.

I agree about the genetic lottery part, but I just imagine the chances of 'winning' so to speak diminish increasingly as the blood is watered down. If you're the son or daughter of two irregulars, you hit the jackpot almost automatically (Enne... the twins...). Kaiser beat even more difficult odds, and we honestly don't even know how much further down the line she really is to be fair.

 

[lazybum]

It's been floating around that Vicente may rival Arie Hon by absorbing an Irregular soul on his journey following Baam (for example killing Traumerei). Do you think Vicente can even absorb an Irregular soul? Like, maybe an Irregular soul is too big for a Regular body to handle, or the Irregular soul can "fight back", in fact may even possesses Vicente.

 

[kkck]

My guess would be that white would indeed be unable to handle an irregular souls. it'd be more than he can chew. Or even if he could, it wouldn't do him any good. Since it'd be more power than he can handle. With other powers people pick up it's the case that those that wield it to begin with have the capacity to do so. White as a tower resident has fixed limits and talents and my guess is that no amount of irregular souls can change that. A sardine cannot eat a whale.

 

[lemo]

Anyone else facing a problem with webtoon app?

 

[lazybum]

Shinwonryu's restriction to Irregulars is weird. Only Irregulars can do this because they can manipulate shinsu without Administrator's permission, while Regulars do need a contract. How does that stop Regulars from replicating the technique exactly? The technique is to compress shinsu into a single point to produce a powerful explosion, why can't Regulars compress shinsu once they have obtained Administrator's contract to use shinsu? Does this mean the contract comes with exceptions/limitation on how you manipulate shinsu?

 

[paulbee]

Shinwonryu's restriction to Irregulars is weird. Only Irregulars can do this because they can manipulate shinsu without Administrator's permission, while Regulars do need a contract. How does that stop Regulars from replicating the technique exactly? The technique is to compress shinsu into a single point to produce a powerful explosion, why can't Regulars compress shinsu once they have obtained Administrator's contract to use shinsu? Does this mean the contract comes with exceptions/limitation on how you manipulate shinsu?

You should ask SIU and the Administrators that question. BTW why the heck does shinsu even work?

 

[lazybum]

I don't remember this, but do people have shinsu pool inside them? Like magician having mana pool.

 

[Jubei_Kibagami]

I don't remember this, but do people have shinsu pool inside them? Like magician having mana pool.

Seems like it, plus it's everywhere. Seeing as it fuels living organisms, but they can 'get tired' (see recent arc characters, all), they seem to deplete it, and it needs to be refilled... from the environment?

From the wiki:

"Shinsu is essential to all living beings in the Tower, enabling their survival in multiple ways.[3] For all of living memory, and likely prior to it, Shinsu has been an integral part of the Tower. Strong or weak, ranker, regular, or otherwise, if you run out of Shinsu you will die. It fulfills the role of life energy for organisms within the tower, aswell as acting in lieu of oxygen for for breathing."

Seems to imply an innate pool of limited shinsoo that you can run out of.

 

[lazybum]

Seems like it, plus it's everywhere. Seeing as it fuels living organisms, but they can 'get tired' (see recent arc characters, all), they seem to deplete it, and it needs to be refilled... from the environment?

From the wiki:

"Shinsu is essential to all living beings in the Tower, enabling their survival in multiple ways.[3] For all of living memory, and likely prior to it, Shinsu has been an integral part of the Tower. Strong or weak, ranker, regular, or otherwise, if you run out of Shinsu you will die. It fulfills the role of life energy for organisms within the tower, aswell as acting in lieu of oxygen for for breathing."

Seems to imply an innate pool of limited shinsoo that you can run out of.

I'm wondering if Blossom can probably dominate all the atmosphere shinsu, while V will have to rely his own shinsu and perhaps some limited shinsu around him if they have to fight.

 

[Jubei_Kibagami]

Relevant?

"
Types of Shinsu
Pure or Natural Shinsu
Shinsu manipulated by certain individuals (eg. Twenty-Fifth Baam and Yu Han Sung) will directly appear in the form of liquid water (which is said to be the purest form of shinsu).

Man-Controlled Shinsu
"The entire Tower is filled with Shinsu so it is everywhere but there is a difference between natural Shinsu and man-controlled Shinsu." -SIU [2]

What the difference is has not been elaborated upon as of yet.

Shinsu Organs
"There are many cases where a person uses their organs to change the nature of their Shinsu for tactical use." -SIU[2]

Ignition Weapon Shinsu
"Instead of thinking that all Ignition Weapons have souls, it's probably more accurate to say that they are created using a special kind of shinsu" -SIU.[14]"

--- Double Post Merged, Apr 21, 2022, Original Post Date: Apr 21, 2022 ---

I'm wondering if Blossom can probably dominate all the atmosphere shinsu, while V will have to rely his own shinsu and perhaps some limited shinsu around him if they have to fight.

Maybe. What Baam did against White was manipulate the shinsoo in the environment. Same as Enryu it seems. Is that something any irregular can do, or is that due to thorn/thorn-like powers that Enryu had (perhaps due to thorn)?

Meanwhile, Blossom accelerated all the shinsoo in an area, so it seems to just be an irreg thing (or those with shinsoo contracts)?

If it's everywhere, that includes internally though, so IDK, good question.

--- Double Post Merged, Apr 21, 2022 ---

OR, do you have to use your own, internal shinsoo to influence that of the shinsoo in the environment, thus the limit of how much of the environment has a cap as to how much internal shinsoo you can produce? While the thorn lets you bypass internal usage requirements and just outright control all the shinsoo in the environment regardless of your own personal limits, even to the point of controlling it over an admin (who should have ultimate control on any given floor).

Arbitrary units:

- an irregular with 10,000 internal shinsoo can influence 10,000 external shinsoo around them (or maybe it's a case of multiples, so 10x the amount of internal shinsoo)

vs

- an irregular with merely 50 internal shinsoo, but equipped with the (completed) thorn, could theoretically control ALL the shinsoo in the environment/floor

Just a shot in the dark.

 

[kkck]

Shinwonryu's restriction to Irregulars is weird. Only Irregulars can do this because they can manipulate shinsu without Administrator's permission, while Regulars do need a contract. How does that stop Regulars from replicating the technique exactly? The technique is to compress shinsu into a single point to produce a powerful explosion, why can't Regulars compress shinsu once they have obtained Administrator's contract to use shinsu? Does this mean the contract comes with exceptions/limitation on how you manipulate shinsu?

Shinwonryu is more than that. It definitely allows you for more concentrated power but iirc the series framed that as being a property of it rather than the mechanism by which it is made. Shinwonryu as I understand it is in reality a different form of shinsoo control altogether. As in, you have standard shinsoo control which is what most people in the tower do that usually shows shinsoo as having water like properties when using said shinsoo and then you have shinwonryu which looks more like light.

 

[sazon]

Maybe. What Baam did against White was manipulate the shinsoo in the environment. Same as Enryu it seems. Is that something any irregular can do, or is that due to thorn/thorn-like powers that Enryu had (perhaps due to thorn)?

Meanwhile, Blossom accelerated all the shinsoo in an area, so it seems to just be an irreg thing (or those with shinsoo contracts)?

If it's everywhere, that includes internally though, so IDK, good question.

It might be something that only high level WCs can do, if we exclude Baam, YHS is the best WC we've seen so far and even though he's a genius, he's not the most powerful.

The Eurasia family seems to have "air" as their quality of shinsoo so it makes sense for Blossom to control "oxygen".

People manipulate internal and external shinsoo, apparently most only do it with the external. Ice, electricity, shower rose, all this is external manipulation.

While Zahard's shinwonrryuu and Ran's redan are manipulations of the inner shinsoo.

Perhaps Kallavan's EoB is like both, the explosions being external and the super defense internal.

Oh and apparently the flames in ToG are something different than Shinsoo, which makes sense because they are opposite elements.