One Piece Power Level Discussion Thread

[goldb]

Ground Rules for the Power Level Discussion Thread
​

As always, please follow the guidelines set by the Forum Rules that apply across the board.

It's important that discussions from a current chapter are spoiler tagged until 24h have passed from an english release.

• For the sake of constructive discussion, where and when possible please quote/ source any information you provide. Particularly when it comes to conversations carried over from other threads.
• Avoid passive agressive posts, sly remarks or baiting/trolling. You can certainly have fun or disagree without it being at someone's expense.
• Only use anime examples that are canon and as means to provide clarity to pages in the manga. Any other anime material is otherwise non-canon and should only be referenced if it can be proved that the mangaka had approved it.
• We will strive to avoid repetitive discussions and any extensive battle topics will be guided to the Davy Back fight to existing threads or new ones can be made there.

As of now these topics are shelved due to repetitiveness or until the manga can present us with material to further discussions:

1. Shanks v Mihawk
2. Hand to hand fighters > Swordsmen
3. Zoro > Luffy
4. Zoro v Sanji
5. Is Smoker a top 30 character?
6. Mihawk's rank within the story
7. Law having CoC currently.
8. Katakuri > Kaido/Luffy/Etc.

If you wish to continue any of these discussion and remove it from the list, you will need to provide manga material as proof. If there's also anything you think we've covered numerous times, let me know and I'll update the list.

This is the only warning there'll be regarding these ground rules, anything no adhering will be removed. So please just check your posts before posting them.

 

[GL_Nova]

It makes no sense to ignore the training everybody did between arriving to Wano and the big battle.

 

[BoyNextDoor]

Let’s get away from the characters themselves and talk about how much weight do we give these characters and why…

Is portrayal?
Feats?
Narrative?

Ex. Jack Vs Doffy…..Jack Narratively and through portrayal is stronger than Doflamingo…..However he does not have the feats.

Storywise you may be correct to say Jack is stronger. But in a discussion amongst fans, Majority will lean towards Doflamingo because he has better and more impressive feats from his battles and showings.

So how much weight do you give Portryal, feats and narrative to characters when it comes to the story

narrative > portrayal > feats

 

[Bandit99]

Bounties of the Beast Pirates if they would behave like Big Mom Pirates imho

King: 900M
Queen: 1B
Jack: 600M

Queen without plagues and behaving like a Big Mom Pirate:

650M

/discuss

what does this mean? explain the behaviour of the BM pirates

 

[Fox666]

Bounties of the Beast Pirates if they would behave like Big Mom Pirates imho

King: 900M
Queen: 1B
Jack: 600M

Queen without plagues and behaving like a Big Mom Pirate:

650M

/discuss

I'm surprised Queen doesn't have the highest bounty, the guy is a full psycopath

It would be cooler if King's bounty was only 500 million... things turned out too predictable.

 

[Ero-Sanji]

what does this mean? explain the behaviour of the BM pirates

The BM pirates are not as belligerent and proactive as the Beast Pirates. The Beast Pirates are by far the most volatile group, they're so violent the All-Stars are all nicknamed after natural disasters. The question is what would the latter group's Yonkou Commanders' bounties be like if they acted like BM pirates instead?

I think one could extend that thought to the WB Pirates. We only know of Ace, Izo and Marco's bounties, but would Marco reach 2 billions if he had been as violent as King?

 

[I Am Atomic]

I'm surprised Queen doesn't have the highest bounty, the guy is a full psycopath

It would be cooler if King's bounty was only 500 million... things turned out too predictable.

We don't know if the government knows if King is a Lunarian or not. If the former, then explains high bounty.
Also, I never understood why Queen called King a pervert when it comes to torture. It was long ago, but can't remember the exact details.
Is it cause he can take a lot of hits?

But yeah, Queen is crazy. I see some anime clips on YouTube and saw how crazy and stupid Queen is when he threw the antidote to Apoo.
The alliance would have been done for it he have the wrong antidote to Apoo. Nobody would have known.

Since I started rambling, might as well say this. I think Oda messed up for Chopper to get a powerup. He could have used the IceOni virus to give chopper another form.

 

[McNuss]

what does this mean? explain the behaviour of the BM pirates

The BM Pirates govern over a nation and are composed mostly of reasonable characters. While Mama herself craves for power to become Pirate King, the children and officers seem to mostly care about the stability of the country.

On the other hand, the Beast Pirates are a band of Savage mongol barbarians. We've seen how they govern, both in Wano Country and on the Winter Island of Scotch, and it's completely different than how BM govern Tottoland, or Fishman Island for that matter, which de jure even still is a territory of the WG.

And this behavior certainly is reflected in their bounties. Jack is no Katakuri. He's just a fat mammoth who uses poison gas, the most loathed weapon in human history.

As such, I assume the Beast Pirates higher ups are massively overrated.

Jack's feats are so that he would lose to pretty much anyone else the community proclaims as "YC" or whatever.

Queen is massively overrated, too. Guy couldn't fight at all, an idiot who got hit by his own rocket launcher.

His powers are:

Pacifista Beam = meh
Extending limbs = meh
Swordsmanship without any special skills = meh

In addition, he can also use the Germa Powers, which are:

More laser beams = meh
More extending limbs = meh
Electric shocks = meh
And invisibility, which is Absalom's power = meh

And King is also just not Katakuri. King is a glass canon that relies on a mediocre cheat. Katakuri wouldn't even have gotten hit by Zoro, not a single time until it is too late.

 

[Ero-Sanji]

Since I started rambling, might as well say this. I think Oda messed up for Chopper to get a powerup. He could have used the IceOni virus to give chopper another form.

Oof, don't even get me started with Chopper! His forms have been garbage both aesthetically (Horn Point, ugh) and in terms of power since the time skip and something tells me Oda knows this hence why he's been so reluctant to use them. I mean some of these points haven't been used since Fishman Island. Almost five hundred chapters ago!

 

[Fox666]

Also, I never understood why Queen called King a pervert when it comes to torture. It was long ago, but can't remember the exact details.
Is it cause he can take a lot of hits?

It's because his clothes resemble a gimp suit.

However, since we didn't see what sort of torture he does... it may be possible he is indeed a pervert.

 

[I Am Atomic]

It's because his clothes resemble a gimp suit.

However, since we didn't see what sort of torture he does... it may be possible he is indeed a pervert.

Bro, that made my stomach hurt

I mean we know why King is called Wildfire at least. Too much hype and no substance from Oda..... nothing new ofc

 

[Bandit99]

The BM Pirates govern over a nation and are composed mostly of reasonable characters. While Mama herself craves for power to become Pirate King, the children and officers seem to mostly care about the stability of the country.

On the other hand, the Beast Pirates are a band of Savage mongol barbarians. We've seen how they govern, both in Wano Country and on the Winter Island of Scotch, and it's completely different than how BM govern Tottoland, or Fishman Island for that matter, which de jure even still is a territory of the WG.

And this behavior certainly is reflected in their bounties. Jack is no Katakuri. He's just a fat mammoth who uses poison gas, the most loathed weapon in human history.

As such, I assume the Beast Pirates higher ups are massively overrated.

Jack's feats are so that he would lose to pretty much anyone else the community proclaims as "YC" or whatever.

Queen is massively overrated, too. Guy couldn't fight at all, an idiot who got hit by his own rocket launcher.

His powers are:

Pacifista Beam = meh
Extending limbs = meh
Swordsmanship without any special skills = meh

In addition, he can also use the Germa Powers, which are:

More laser beams = meh
More extending limbs = meh
Electric shocks = meh
And invisibility, which is Absalom's power = meh

And King is also just not Katakuri. King is a glass canon that relies on a mediocre cheat. Katakuri wouldn't even have gotten hit by Zoro, not a single time until it is too late.

Ohhhhhhhhhhhh okay I get what you’re saying now

 

[XXGenesis]

Having a Katakuri hard on is one thing. But to compare him to every commander, that’s really not fair…..

im surprised no one has mentioned this. But comparing Main Protagonist villains up against other villains main characters fight, doesn’t even make sense. The main protagonist has hurdles and challengers that will always be more aurdious than their supporting class.

Ex. Doflamingo should not be easily or just slotted in during the next arc for Sanji & Zoro to be able to defeat him. It’s usually 2 arcs later. When they can replicate defeating the main villain like Luffy.

 

[Lord Traffy Law]

Katakuri and doflamingo get a bit wanked due to having battle focus they’re gonna loook more impressive than all the characters in their tier and even above them because Oda is gonna focus in building and developing them
That’s not to say they’re not impressive but it’s skewed by the super focus they got

 

[AINSOOALGOWN_SAMA]

Katakuri and doflamingo get a bit wanked due to having battle focus they’re gonna loook more impressive than all the characters in their tier and even above them because Oda is gonna focus in building and developing them
That’s not to say they’re not impressive but it’s skewed by the super focus they got

Oda literally stated in an SBS that he couldn't afford to have Doflamingo on Wano. His presence alone would give the Beast Pirates a huge boost and make the battles trickier. He's one of the strongest Shichibukai till date and would likely fair better than any of Kaido's All Stars except arguably King.

Katakuri speaks for himself so I wouldn't even get started on that.

 

[grey matter]

I think we've seen enough to make the post Wano list now, assuming Luffy will win with extreme diff or something against Kaido.

Here is my list, with characters on and above Yonko commander level. Let me know what you guys think.
(Not including characters purely based on hype, like Imu or Kong.)

Spoiler: Yonko+

Roger / Whitebeard (prime)
Garp (prime)

Spoiler: Yonko tier

Whitebeard (old: in meds)
Kaido/ BigMom (soul buffed)
BigMom/ Shanks/ Sengoku (prime)/ Mihawk/ Shiki (prime)
Rayleigh (prime)
Oden
Whitebeard (old: off meds for days)
Akainu
Blackbeard

Spoiler: admiral tier

Luffy
Aokiji
Scopper
Rayleigh (old)/Kizaru
Fujitora/Greenbull

Spoiler: YC1+

Law
Kid
Marco
Zoro
Yamato

Spoiler: YC1 tier

King
Katakuri
Ace
Vista
Sanji

Spoiler: YC2 tier

Cat/Dog (sulong)
Jozu
Killer
Queen
Kyoshiro

Spoiler: YC3 tier

Thatch
Doflamingo
Shutenmaru
Jinbe/Jack/Cracker
Cat/Dog (base)

Spoiler: Bonus/Headcanon/Prediction

Imu: Yonko +
Rocks: Yonko+
Gorosei: Yonko
Dragon: Yonko
Kong: Yonko
Ben Beckman: admiral
Sabo: YC1+
Weevil: YC1+
Smoothie: YC2
Enel: YC3

Explanation for some positions I think might cause most disagreements.

1. Akainu being Yonko tier, while Aokiji not
I think they were great match for each other. Their DF cancelled out each other, while their haki are even.
But, Akainu's ceiling is higher than Aokiji's. Because Akainu's attack power is probably the highest in the verse. Point being, an attack landing from Akainu is more deadly than which lands from Aokiji.
Plus, Oda hyping up him by saying he would've become PK in an year or two. etc
But if someone disagrees, pointing to Akainu extreme diffing Aokiji, I can understand that as well.


2. Luffy not in Yonko tier
Luffy vs Kaido started with Kaido more tired than Luffy. If fight starts with both at full power, Kaido will high diff end of Wano Luffy IMO
Luffy's will as a conqueror has reached Yonko level, but not in other stats.
Again, if you think Luffy is Yonko tier, I see where you're coming from and can respect that as well.


3. Doflamingo's position
He can strike above his level and can be beaten by characters below his level as well. Due to his DF.
His DF mastery and stats are lopsided. His DF mastery is like admiral tier, while stats being on upper Tobiroppo/Yonko-executive tier.
I just averaged it out and put him in YC3 tier.


4. Ace's position
His position is based on scaling up from his fight against Jinbe. Plus using info from the Ace novel as well.
Ace being introduced before haki was properly developed, has lead to him being downplayed by the community in general IMO.
Sidenote: Thatch's position is because he was stronger than Ace, and by extension Jinbe, in the beginning of Ace's stay in WB's ship.

Edit: Forgot to add Rocks and Weevil earlier, added them now

 

[Lord Traffy Law]

Oda literally stated in an SBS that he couldn't afford to have Doflamingo on Wano. His presence alone would give the Beast Pirates a huge boost and make the battles trickier. He's one of the strongest Shichibukai till date and would likely fair better than any of Kaido's All Stars except arguably King.

Katakuri speaks for himself so I wouldn't even get started on that.

I mean I never said he’s a scrub
But the issue with the doffy being on wano is that he cramps up the entire story again , we already have enough characters and things to deal with
And his power again is excellent for dealing with scrubs , parasite pretty much makes it a super one sided battle
Cause 1 vs 1 he’s pretty much getting mid diffed by all the top fighters of the alliance Luffy Yamato Zoro Sanji Law Kidd Marco , probably the suulong minks kings in Dogtooth and CatVip
Again doffy scales to around YC3 level and he’s still incredibly powerful and versatile and would move the meddle

and you’re missing the point , never saidboth aren’t powerful but they’d appear more powerful than the others cause Oda gave incredible development and fleshed out their abilities hence why they appear way more impressive than the dudes in their tier ala Doffy and the other YC3 guys ( minus cracker who has a lot of feats above him ) and katakuri

 

[Crimson Ice]

The BM Pirates govern over a nation and are composed mostly of reasonable characters. While Mama herself craves for power to become Pirate King, the children and officers seem to mostly care about the stability of the country.

On the other hand, the Beast Pirates are a band of Savage mongol barbarians. We've seen how they govern, both in Wano Country and on the Winter Island of Scotch, and it's completely different than how BM govern Tottoland, or Fishman Island for that matter, which de jure even still is a territory of the WG.

And this behavior certainly is reflected in their bounties. Jack is no Katakuri. He's just a fat mammoth who uses poison gas, the most loathed weapon in human history.

As such, I assume the Beast Pirates higher ups are massively overrated.

Jack's feats are so that he would lose to pretty much anyone else the community proclaims as "YC" or whatever.

Queen is massively overrated, too. Guy couldn't fight at all, an idiot who got hit by his own rocket launcher.

His powers are:

Pacifista Beam = meh
Extending limbs = meh
Swordsmanship without any special skills = meh

In addition, he can also use the Germa Powers, which are:

More laser beams = meh
More extending limbs = meh
Electric shocks = meh
And invisibility, which is Absalom's power = meh

And King is also just not Katakuri. King is a glass canon that relies on a mediocre cheat. Katakuri wouldn't even have gotten hit by Zoro, not a single time until it is too late.

You don't know what glass cannon means if you think King is one.

 

[McNuss]

You don't know what glass cannon means if you think King is one.

Jack probably would've gotten up after that attack from Zoro. It will also be far from Zoro's strongest cut, given we still have at least one more big saga until the Manga concludes. Zoro himself could have probably blocked it.

King is a cheater, just like Marco. He relies on his racial traits to prevent taking damage, and he is actually not that capable of taking damage. Hence the "glass" part. He has very high destructive capabilities, hence the "cannon" part. This is obviously all within context of his respective powerlevel group. I wasn't comparing YC to... let's say Nami, who is more of a glass canon in the overall context of characters. I thought that would be clear based on the overall context of the post.

Marco is a cheater, too, but his cheat is much more powerful, being based on his stamina. However, his destructive potential is much lower and his overall fighting capacity is nowhere above average within his own tier, Take away all Devil Fruits, and he is among the weakest of YC.

Katakuri is something else. Haki is not a cheat, its a basic ability that everyone can learn (aside from CoC), and Katakuri is the best Haki user among the YC, quite by far as he mastered CoO beyond equal and is also pretty good at CoA. None of the "YC" have aCoC (lol), but Katakuri at least can also use CoC. On top of that he is a masterful hand to hand combattant, a masterful sniper, quite fast, quite durable, can fight with a trident, too. A fighting genius, he quickly coped with Snakeman and simply dodged. Dodging is the most powerful skill in fighting, as it prevents you from taking damage, and Katakuri can pretty much dodge forever as CoO is based on concentration and he is pretty good at that as well.

What would any of the other guys even do against him? None of them can hit him!

 

[kkck]

Jack probably would've gotten up after that attack from Zoro. It will also be far from Zoro's strongest cut, given we still have at least one more big saga until the Manga concludes.

King is a cheater, just like Marco. He relies on his racial traits to prevent taking damage, and he is actually not that capable of taking damage.

Marco is a cheater, too, but his cheat is much more powerful, being based on his stamina. However, his destructive potential is much lower and his overall fighting capacity is nowhere above average within his own tier, Take away all Devil Fruits, and he is among the weakest of YC.

Katakuri is something else. Haki is not a cheat, its a basic ability that everyone can learn (aside from CoC), and Katakuri is the best Haki user among the YC, quite by far as he mastered CoO beyond equal and is also pretty good at CoA. None of the "YC" have aCoC (lol), but Katakuri at least can also use CoC. On top of that he is a masterful hand to hand combattant, a masterful sniper, quite fast, quite durable, can fight with a trident, too. A fighting genius, he quickly coped with Snakeman and simply dodged. Dodging is the most powerful skill in fighting, as it prevents you from taking damage, and Katakuri can pretty much dodge forever as CoO is based on concentration and he is pretty good at that as well.

What would any of the other guys even do against him? None of them can hit him!

It sounds like a rather arbitrary distinction that somehow racial traits are a cheat but not devil fruits. Katakuri's fruit ability is essentially a logias. Which is reasonably high up the pecking order.

As for marco... I would argue there are two recent developments which should easily evidence him being outstanding at least compared to katakuri:

1.- Marco was able to trade blows with big mom.
2.- And far more impressively, marco has respect from big mom. Big mom doesn't respect katakuri even though he is basically her second in command.

As for what the other YC would do to katakuri... Welp, marco would simply beat the crap out of him in a straight fight. the other YC are strong and have plenty of shenanigans going on. King is definitely insanenly fast while in attack mode and mochi probably does not appreciate magma like fire. I am of the idea that queen wouldn't win against katakuri but there is no way this is an easy fight. Katakuri was able to lord his CoO haki over luffy because at the time luffy was not on the level with top yonko executives. The battle against doflamingo was an insanely long battle of attrition involving luffy, law and whoever else could stall doflamingo. Luffy wouldn't have put up that much of a fight against cracker if nami hadn't been there. It took a substantial haki boost to get luffy to katakuri's level. The calamities, sweet commanders and other yonko trios are simply a tier or two ahead of where gear 4 luffy at the start of dressrosa was.

 

[McNuss]

It sounds like a rather arbitrary distinction that somehow racial traits are a cheat but not devil fruits. Katakuri's fruit ability is essentially a logias. Which is reasonably high up the pecking order.

I never said Katakuri's Devil Fruit isn't a cheat and consciusly avoided even talking about it. Because this gets added on top of all the other mastery. And it's mastered as well. Did King Awaken his fruit? Or anyone else, for that matter?

As for marco... I would argue there are two recent developments which should easily evidence him being outstanding at least compared to katakuri:

1.- Marco was able to trade blows with big mom.
2.- And far more impressively, marco has respect from big mom. Big mom doesn't respect katakuri even though he is basically her second in command.

1. Crocodile traded blows with Mihawk. They are veterans, they are experts, they can do that. Katakuri was never in a position to engage his mother in battle, but could he stop another Yonko for a similar amount of time? Yeah, I think so!
2. Naaah this is not impressive at all because Big Mom is his Mom. The fact that he's a Sweet Commander shows he's very well respected for his strenght, the rest is family dynamics, you cannot compare the two scenarios here at all!

Welp, marco would simply beat the crap out of him in a straight fight.

This is 10000% headcanon. There is zero instance of Marco beating ANYONE to a pulp.

King is definitely insanenly fast while in attack mode and mochi probably does not appreciate magma like fire.

Bye bye King take the trident. There's no Fire or Magma in Attack Mode. And he isn't going to land a hit on Katakuri while in defense mode. The way Katakuri has been portrayed, he'd adapt to King's entire fighting concept within seconds. He's a genius, the others just can't compare.