One Piece Power Level Discussion Thread

[goldb]

Ground Rules for the Power Level Discussion Thread
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As always, please follow the guidelines set by the Forum Rules that apply across the board.

It's important that discussions from a current chapter are spoiler tagged until 24h have passed from an english release.

• For the sake of constructive discussion, where and when possible please quote/ source any information you provide. Particularly when it comes to conversations carried over from other threads.
• Avoid passive agressive posts, sly remarks or baiting/trolling. You can certainly have fun or disagree without it being at someone's expense.
• Only use anime examples that are canon and as means to provide clarity to pages in the manga. Any other anime material is otherwise non-canon and should only be referenced if it can be proved that the mangaka had approved it.
• We will strive to avoid repetitive discussions and any extensive battle topics will be guided to the Davy Back fight to existing threads or new ones can be made there.

As of now these topics are shelved due to repetitiveness or until the manga can present us with material to further discussions:

1. Shanks v Mihawk
2. Hand to hand fighters > Swordsmen
3. Zoro > Luffy
4. Zoro v Sanji
5. Is Smoker a top 30 character?
6. Mihawk's rank within the story
7. Law having CoC currently.
8. Katakuri > Kaido/Luffy/Etc.

If you wish to continue any of these discussion and remove it from the list, you will need to provide manga material as proof. If there's also anything you think we've covered numerous times, let me know and I'll update the list.

This is the only warning there'll be regarding these ground rules, anything no adhering will be removed. So please just check your posts before posting them.

 

[Core D. Roy]

I'd give the edge to Kata over King. The ACOO is pretty difficult to overcome. The way I see it is Kata should be able to dodge a lot of King's attacks despite his speed since he was able to dodge Luffy's black mamba attack when using G4 snakeman which I think is relatively in the same ball park of speed if not faster than King.

On top of that I think Kata is smart enough to figure out the trick behind Kings abilities. So combined with his ACOO he'd just need to get his timing right to hurt King. I don't think this would be a walk in the park fight but on average I see this match up going in Kata's favor 55/45. King would still be able to win to since he should be able to land hits eventually, especially if it takes Kata a long time to deal enough damage to take King out. The longer the fight the more it is in King's favor.

Honestly, both of them have their own unique brokenish ability. Kata with future sight and King with his flames. I think Kata would fare worse fighting someone who uses area of effect attacks since he can't take advantage of his ACOO to dodge as easily.

The more I think about it the more I feel like this would be an insanely interesting fight to see unfold. Both have so many avenues of attack and strategies they could go with. I gotta say same 55/45 for Katakuri. King very well could take it 45% of the time, but Kata just has certain advantages that are pretty challenging for King to overcome. Awakening, future sight, mochi, advanced CoA, and gods forbid Kata figures out advanced CoC in a high-level battle.

 

[McNuss]

Honestly, both of them have their own unique brokenish ability. Kata with future sight and King with his flames. I think Kata would fare worse fighting someone who uses area of effect attacks since he can't take advantage of his ACOO to dodge as easily.

My issue with King's trick is that it is not unbreakable, and beyond it he couldn't take many hits.

I honestly think Jack would still be standing after taking the same damage. He'd probably be breathing heavily and say some sparse words before being done in by another attack, but we've also seen Whitebeard getting half his face blown off with a hole in his chest, still delivering a speech after being hit by a barrage of bullets and we've to evaluate whom of our supposed second row can live remotely up to that and it's not King.

Katakuri on the other hand atleast was shown with better durability than King, though I'd fail to recollect if he can be compared to Jack. However Katakuri and Marco have a bulletproof trick to avoid damage.

Like really, Jack's durability is crazy. Pedro can give Viscount Hyoko a run for his money, and the bounties heavily suggest Niwatori to be stronger than Oven/Daifuku, the latter of which couldn't even handle Carrot. Carrot is a novice, at least Rody, Blackback and the 3 Musceteers have to be stronger than Carrot, and Sicilian is heavily suggested to be equal to Pedro...so yeah.

King's trick is, as far as we know so far, below Jozu's. Who quite interestingly would be reduced to ashes rather quickly by King.

Honestly, both of them have their own unique brokenish ability. Kata with future sight and King with his flames. I think Kata would fare worse fighting someone who uses area of effect attacks since he can't take advantage of his ACOO to dodge as easily.

The Mochi fruit is really special, he can even seperate himself and regrow parts he'd shot of himself so even with area of attacks I think Katakuri doesn't have much problems in an 1v1 as long as he concentrates, at which he is pretty good, but his weakness has also been suggested and that is multiple people. He didn't perform nearly as well during the wedding, and he also couldn't predict the interference of Flambé. End of the day, concentration probably works like real life concentration, and if he is so focused on something he loses sight of everything else.

 

[Fox666]

Also Katakuri literally called Luffy his equal and people were still saying Luffy wasn't Katakuri's equal lol

Also I think people may not have realized that the difference between Luffy and Zoro increased a lot in this arc

If Kaido could take down Luffy with 1 hit at the beggining of Wano, then now Luffy, Law and Kid should be capable of a similar feat against Zoro, Killer, etc

 

[Pirate Queen]

The more I think about it the more I feel like this would be an insanely interesting fight to see unfold. Both have so many avenues of attack and strategies they could go with. I gotta say same 55/45 for Katakuri. King very well could take it 45% of the time, but Kata just has certain advantages that are pretty challenging for King to overcome. Awakening, future sight, mochi, advanced CoA, and gods forbid Kata figures out advanced CoC in a high-level battle.

King vs Katakuri are regularly discussed in my anime/manga club and when you put every stat in Piece Side by side, there is really no 1 stat that King has over Katakuri. The biggest is his flame mode defense which he has shown a clear aversion to using when it matters most.

And like most people say. And I agree that Oda fleshed out Katakuri way more than King, but given Luffy is the MC it is to be expected, but excuses can't be made in spite of this.

We can only work with what we are given. We can't just fill in the blanks because Oda chose not to flesh out King.

I would love to see a real match up between the two, if only a few panels.

 

[DeadlyBeast]

My issue with King's trick is that it is not unbreakable, and beyond it he couldn't take many hits.

I honestly think Jack would still be standing after taking the same damage. He'd probably be breathing heavily and say some sparse words before being done in by another attack, but we've also seen Whitebeard getting half his face blown off with a hole in his chest, still delivering a speech after being hit by a barrage of bullets and we've to evaluate whom of our supposed second row can live remotely up to that and it's not King.

Katakuri on the other hand atleast was shown with better durability than King, though I'd fail to recollect if he can be compared to Jack. However Katakuri and Marco have a bulletproof trick to avoid damage.

Like really, Jack's durability is crazy. Pedro can give Viscount Hyoko a run for his money, and the bounties heavily suggest Niwatori to be stronger than Oven/Daifuku, the latter of which couldn't even handle Carrot. Carrot is a novice, at least Rody, Blackback and the 3 Musceteers have to be stronger than Carrot, and Sicilian is heavily suggested to be equal to Pedro...so yeah.

King's trick is, as far as we know so far, below Jozu's. Who quite interestingly would be reduced to ashes rather quickly by King.

Well at the very least we have only seen him get seriously hurt when Zoro used ACoC. So even though it is not unbreakable it would still require some serious power up in raw attack power by Kata to hurt him while in defense mode. That's why I think only way for Kata to hurt him at the moment is when King is attacking. It's also tough to judge King's endurance since he was only taken out by ACoC attack which we know is far stronger than attacks we've seen without it. No clue how to compare their endurance since the context of their fights are just so different.

Yeah I agree, Jack seems like the endurance monster of the crew. Not sure about the Jozu comparison. Jozu doesn't appear like he can move when turned into diamond (hence why he doesn't just fully transform his whole body and run around doing whatever he wants). King in defense mode is still at least mobile. Yes Jozu's defense is stronger but the immobility is a huge drawback. Honestly, I understand why Oda limited the Diamond fruit. If it was anything like the Dice Dice fruit, Jozu would be unstoppable.

The Mochi fruit is really special, he can even seperate himself and regrow parts he'd shot of himself so even with area of attacks I think Katakuri doesn't have much problems in an 1v1 as long as he concentrates, at which he is pretty good, but his weakness has also been suggested and that is multiple people. He didn't perform nearly as well during the wedding, and he also couldn't predict the interference of Flambé. End of the day, concentration probably works like real life concentration, and if he is so focused on something he loses sight of everything else.

Teaming up definitely is a big weakness for him. His future sight becomes less reliable when there are more variables. As for his dodging using his fruit, I think it depends on the type of area of effect attack. Like how would be morph to dodge something very wide spread like a WB quake shock? I don't think his body splitting is as versatile as Buggy.

 

[Lord Traffy Law]

The more I think about it the more I feel like this would be an insanely interesting fight to see unfold. Both have so many avenues of attack and strategies they could go with. I gotta say same 55/45 for Katakuri. King very well could take it 45% of the time, but Kata just has certain advantages that are pretty challenging for King to overcome. Awakening, future sight, mochi, advanced CoA, and gods forbid Kata figures out advanced CoC in a high-level battle.

King vs Katakuri are regularly discussed in my anime/manga club and when you put every stat in Piece Side by side, there is really no 1 stat that King has over Katakuri. The biggest is his flame mode defense which he has shown a clear aversion to using when it matters most.

And like most people say. And I agree that Oda fleshed out Katakuri way more than King, but given Luffy is the MC it is to be expected, but excuses can't be made in spite of this.

We can only work with what we are given. We can't just fill in the blanks because Oda chose not to flesh out King.

I would love to see a real match up between the two, if only a few panels.

I think Kata and doffy suffer due to the over emphasis they got in the story, hence why they seem to be above people who are in their tiers or even slightly above

 

[Pirate Queen]

I think Kata and doffy suffer due to the over emphasis they got in the story, hence why they seem to be above people who are in their tiers or even slightly above

No doubt about that. But I think this fact also leads to people using headcanon to fill in that missing substance by saying things like AoE is a hard counter to FS when we have seen many things avoid overwhelmingly powerful AoE attacks. Or when they say nothing but ACoC can break through King's defense when we know that a strong enough CoA or even Barrier CoA can do the job against a tougher opponent.

Even Kidd clarified a strong enough physical attack can even break an unbreakable juggernaut like Big Mom.

 

[AmitDS]

Totally unrelated... I think we need to give Shiki and Big Mom more respect for existing in a yonko-like group with WB and Roger.

Spoiler

 

[Core D. Roy]

Totally unrelated... I think we need to give Shiki and Big Mom more respect for existing in a yonko-like group with WB and Roger.

Spoiler

Ughhhhhh thanks for reminding me I have to place Shiki on my unwieldy tier table. Stupid half-canon character.

I think it's safe to say I need to split him up into (prime) and (old) entries like some other characters like Whitebeard/Garp/Rayleigh.

 

[Pirate Queen]

Ughhhhhh thanks for reminding me I have to place Shiki on my unwieldy tier table. Stupid half-canon character.

I think it's safe to say I need to split him up into (prime) and (old) entries like some other characters like Whitebeard/Garp/Rayleigh.

I think it would be fair to tier him alongside Big Mom. Chapter 0 made a point to say we're it not for the sudden Storm, Shiki would have likely defeated Roger during the Edd War. Whether it is due to a number advantage or 1v1 remains to be known but he is spoken in the same vein as Big Mom. Roger. Garp. Etc

 

[M3J]

I think it would be fair to tier him alongside Big Mom. Chapter 0 made a point to say we're it not for the sudden Storm, Shiki would have likely defeated Roger during the Edd War. Whether it is due to a number advantage or 1v1 remains to be known but he is spoken in the same vein as Big Mom. Roger. Garp. Etc

Didn't SHiki give up after most of his fleet was destroyed? Implies he would have won due to number advantage.

 

[grey matter]

Also I think people may not have realized that the difference between Luffy and Zoro increased a lot in this arc

If Kaido could take down Luffy with 1 hit at the beggining of Wano, then now Luffy, Law and Kid should be capable of a similar feat against Zoro, Killer, etc

Luffy, Law and Kid can one shot Zoro and Killer now? OK.....

 

[Core D. Roy]

Aaand even more annoying than forgetting to place Shiki last night, is my sudden realization that I haven't placed Apoo. Oh lord that one is infuriatingly difficult to properly place.

 

[Pirate Queen]

Luffy, Law and Kid can one shot Zoro and Killer now? OK.....

To be fair, Law can probably one-shot the verse with a well placed anesthesia blade directly into one's heart if they weren't expecting it

 

[DeadlyBeast]

To be fair, Law can probably one-shot the verse with a well placed anesthesia blade directly into one's heart if they weren't expecting it

Honestly its hard to understand how Big Mom stayed conscious after the one in her head. The shockwaves were strong enough to break her ribs but her brain which is soft tissue is okay? At the very least she should have passed out considering what he did should have liquified her brain lol

 

[Pirate Queen]

Honestly its hard to understand how Big Mom stayed conscious after the one in her head. The shockwaves were strong enough to break her ribs but her brain which is soft tissue is okay? At the very least she should have passed out considering what he did should have liquified her brain lol

Exactly. Oda must not understand internal damage because the blade through her head should have ended it.

Unless she.... gave 1 year of her own lifespan to give.... her brain life? So she has... wait how does that work....

Would she get 2 brains?

Damn it Oda

 

[DeadlyBeast]

Exactly. Oda must not understand internal damage because the blade through her head should have ended it.

Unless she.... gave 1 year of her own lifespan to give.... her brain life? So she has... wait how does that work....

Would she get 2 brains?

Damn it Oda

This might be Odas way of telling us BMs brain is elsewhere or that she doesn't have a brain at all . Might explain lack of ACoC or any strategy on her part in this fight and all the random behavior like Mama mode

 

[thedude]

Luffy fans try to argue that Doffy and Kata’s attack power was higher than Dressrosa Zoro’s though.

I disagree. In East Blue we were introduced to Arlong and his crew. Then in Alabasta we had a whole new set of villains- Baroque Works and Crocodile who were all much stronger than Arlong and co. Then we were introduced to Enel and his buddies who were clearly on a different level to Baroque works. Then we meet CP9 who are on a completely different level than the previous villains. Then we meet the Thriller Bark characters who are on a completely different level from them.

Most people consider Cracker stronger than Doffy. Most people consider Diamanté stronger than Hody. Most people consider the fat fish stronger than Moriah. Most people consider Absalom stronger than Lucci. Most people consider Blueno stronger than Enel. Most people consider the priest with the balls stronger than Crocodile. Most people consider Mr. 2 stronger than Arlong.

Lol, this is so totally wrong. The difference between say, Arlong's crew and Crocodiles were the DFs. But without those, Arlong is stronger than any of Crocodiles crew not named Crocodile.

Likewise, what villains in Thriller Bark were on a completely different level? Not Absalom, not Perona. The only really strong character in this arc was Moriah and Oz. I don't think a single person sees Absalom as stronger than Lucci lol.

Blueno was many levels below Enel, how is that even an argument???

--- Double Post Merged, Feb 8, 2022, Original Post Date: Feb 8, 2022 ---

Yeah I think Luffy and Zoro actually have very similar drawbacks in their fighting styles. Both have their greatest impact in close combat vs long distance. Luffy definitely has the versatility in abilities compared to Zoro and I think Zoro edges him in damage inflicted (in my opinion OP seems to favor cutting attacks doing more damage than blunt force).



THIS. OP power scaling is not like DB at all. OP defined the top at the beginning. We've known about who the top dogs of OP since East Blue saga (without names of course). Heck Roger was introduced in Chap 0, we learned the top of the Navy are Admirals with Coby's declaration of his goal, we met Shanks and Mihawk back then too. Since that point we have just learned more about these top peeps and slowly worked the main characters towards that marker.

DB creates a new celing all the time. We started with Red Ribbon army and have gotten to multiverse destroying beings lol.

Yes! We met Mihawk in like chapter 50 or so. We met the admirals early on. We've seen the "top" for ages. This isn't DB where we'll suddenly get Bu or some nonsense!

 

[M3J]

Aaand even more annoying than forgetting to place Shiki last night, is my sudden realization that I haven't placed Apoo. Oh lord that one is infuriatingly difficult to properly place.

LUffy tier just to piss off his fans

But just below Luffy and Zoro makes sense too because Apoo's power makes it hard to fight him

 

[Sachsenhesse]

Yes! We met Mihawk in like chapter 50 or so. We met the admirals early on. We've seen the "top" for ages. This isn't DB where we'll suddenly get Bu or some nonsense!

Thats complete subjective. Buu was introduced in chapter 428 i think. Imu in chapter 906.

Onepiece is longer running and therefore we kinda forget how many has happened. CP9 was introduced in the arc they were fought etc.

You can lay more hints in a manga with 1000 chapters, then in one with 500, easy as.