One Piece Power Level Discussion Thread

[goldb]

Ground Rules for the Power Level Discussion Thread
​

As always, please follow the guidelines set by the Forum Rules that apply across the board.

It's important that discussions from a current chapter are spoiler tagged until 24h have passed from an english release.

• For the sake of constructive discussion, where and when possible please quote/ source any information you provide. Particularly when it comes to conversations carried over from other threads.
• Avoid passive agressive posts, sly remarks or baiting/trolling. You can certainly have fun or disagree without it being at someone's expense.
• Only use anime examples that are canon and as means to provide clarity to pages in the manga. Any other anime material is otherwise non-canon and should only be referenced if it can be proved that the mangaka had approved it.
• We will strive to avoid repetitive discussions and any extensive battle topics will be guided to the Davy Back fight to existing threads or new ones can be made there.

As of now these topics are shelved due to repetitiveness or until the manga can present us with material to further discussions:

1. Shanks v Mihawk
2. Hand to hand fighters > Swordsmen
3. Zoro > Luffy
4. Zoro v Sanji
5. Is Smoker a top 30 character?
6. Mihawk's rank within the story
7. Law having CoC currently.
8. Katakuri > Kaido/Luffy/Etc.

If you wish to continue any of these discussion and remove it from the list, you will need to provide manga material as proof. If there's also anything you think we've covered numerous times, let me know and I'll update the list.

This is the only warning there'll be regarding these ground rules, anything no adhering will be removed. So please just check your posts before posting them.

 

[Rein Avara]

Beginning of rooftop, it seemed to me like Zoro was hitting harder.

I'm not sure that's correct, the only attack Zoro landed that was actually heavy hitting was the Dead mans game.

I would lean towards Luffy hitting harder, him being able to use Ryuo just increase his damage output to all new heights, couple that with the conquerors haki I think it's pretty clear IMO.

 

[Pirate Queen]

A Red Roc without ACoC had Kaido shaken and seeing the Visage of the strongest fighters in the manga, whereas Zoro scarring Kaido earned him a "Not bad".

I think the quality of damage speaks for itself, but even before ACoC, Luffy was forcing Kaido to dodge whereas he didn't feel the need to with Zoro's strongest attacks with Enma

I think Zoro's damage is more lethal than Luffy's without question but damage out put is clearly Luffy(without his strongest attacks)>Zoro (with his strongest attacks)

Luffy 10 > Zoro (8)

 

[Rein Avara]

I think Zoro's damage is more lethal than Luffy's without question but damage out put is clearly Luffy>Zoro.

This is it.
The lethality of the attack is what we should be measuring. Luffy uses his fist i.e blunt force, whereas Zoro uses Katanas i.e cutting force (or w/e it's called).

 

[Pirate Queen]

This is it.
The lethality of the attack is what we should be measuring. Luffy uses his fist i.e blunt force, whereas Zoro uses Katanas i.e cutting force (or w/e it's called).

Slashing vs blunt damage, totally.

If Luffy used 103 mercies with the strength he has now, it would probably devastate Kaido whereas Zoro using Supreme King Kong Gun would do fan less damage than Luffy's version

 

[really_jonny]

Do you guys believe that Zoro and Sanji will be stronger than Yamato by the end of the manga?

 

[Pirate Queen]

Do you guys believe that Zoro and Sanji will be stronger than Yamato by the end of the manga?

If she joins the crew? Yes.

 

[grey matter]

Do you guys believe that Zoro and Sanji will be stronger than Yamato by the end of the manga?

100%.
No need to wait till end of manga, will happen next arc itself.

Zoro arguably is already strong than Yamato, or at least in same tier even if weaker.
Sanji will surpass her next arc.

If Yamato ends up joining, this will be further solidified.
It'll be like another Jinbe scenario. There will be some doubts in the beginning, but monster trio will prevail as usual

I'm not sure that's correct, the only attack Zoro landed that was actually heavy hitting was the Dead mans game.

I would lean towards Luffy hitting harder, him being able to use Ryuo just increase his damage output to all new heights, couple that with the conquerors haki I think it's pretty clear IMO.

The one sword technique was powerful enough to make BM ask Kaido to dodge.
Whether he dodged or Zoro missed, as debated heavily in the forums, we'll have to see when the anime comes out.
Zoro also damaged him with dragon twister.


To me, it seems like Zoro was hitting harder in the beginning. And, I don't think this is an outlandish claim to make, Zoro cut a city sized mountain back in Dresrossa arc, Zoro has always stuck above his tier.
Currently, yeah. It's debatable IMO, because Luffy surely had a bigger boost from advanced conqueror's than Zoro.

 

[Lord Traffy Law]

But it's not like any of us expected another Naruto, where everything seems to be predestined with another dead character, and where the main character has far too many traits/similarities to another dead character. What I expected was Luffy to be Luffy, freeing islands just because of friends but also fighting the wrongs and standing up for the oppressed on his way to his goal. The more info we got, like when they met Rayleigh, I thought Luffy would be the one to free the world from the World Government/Tenryuubito or at least, improve things.

THe whole Joyboy resurrection thing is just too weird.



But that's what it was, it was a core theme of hard work and overcoming hardship. The series had to play up the "superiority" of natural geniuses to show us what Naruto needed to overcome. Neji was considered a genius, as opposed to Naruto, so if you were a Naruto fan, think how satisfying it was to see an idiot beat a genius by persevering. Even with Jiraiya and Orochimaru it was the same, and Jiraiya even tells us that perseverance or something is the actual key to being a great shinobi, right when Naruto finally masters rasengan if I recall correctly, against Kabuto.

The series didn't play into fate, destiny, and all that bullshit until way later in Part II, like maybe around Pain vs. Jiraiya arc? Feels like the mangaka changed it for some dumb reason.

I'm hoping Oda doesn't do that with One Piece here. Maybe Luffy isn't Joyboy at all, but the aura he gives off reminds Zuniesha of Joyboy.

Yeah, early Naruto was all about how hard work and perseverance were more important than natural ability.

Naruto was an idiot who sucked at everything, but managed to scrape out wins by putting in the effort and believing in himself.


Sasuke was wildly outclassed by Itachi, so he spent every waking moment training to get stronger, and made a deal with the Snake Devil to improve to the point where he stood a chance against Itachi’s natural ability.

Lee couldn’t use ninjutsu, so he focused on making his taijutsu strong enough to overcome that weakness.

Neji born to be a slave, but with hard work and dedication, he figured out all the secret techniques the main family kept secret.

Then all of a sudden, not being related to Hashirama or Madara meant you literally had no chance against anyone who was descended from those bloodlines, and hard work meant jack shit compared to being born the chosen one.

One Piece has always kind of had the chosen one/destiny thing going on though. The Will of D has been a thing forever, and there have been a lot of instances of Luffy/his crew getting saved by luck/fate.

Oda has also at least done a better job of foreshadowing elements of the chosen one plot than Kishi ever did. We’ve known about the Blank Century since like Alabasta(?) and Joy Boy since I think Skypea. In contrast, Kishi did literally zero foreshadowing, and just dropped the evil queen plot into the story at the very end of the series.

Naruto was most definitely not misunderstood. Have a look at the Naruto Chapter Discussions on this site10-12+ years ago and the theories and insight everyone on this forum had about the story. The massive disappointment that was unanimously felt when Kaguya and Destiny in general came to be. I spent hours on here going through lore and possibilities with people in this same thread. It feels like history is repeating itself.

It went from Hard Work overcoming Natural Geniuses, To those with hard work being natural geniuses all along, to child of prophecy, to literal reincarnation.

Have a look at Luffy, little boy can't control his DF, to Hard Work, To natural genius, to 800 year and even more recent 20 year Open prophecy, and now this chapter with "JoyBoy has returned". The theme is very similar but delivered much differently, I truly hope the reincarnation thing is not true.

I think there’s a mixup it was explained early naruto wasn’t book smart but his ineptitude With ninjutsu wasn’t his fault , it was the 9 tails

once jiriaya tweaked the seals naruto started to make very very rapid progress especially when he tapped into his natural reserves to make clone

the core themes of naruto
Importance of hard work . Ran it’s course
Friendship and bonds for me even a bigger one cause it was present since the start of the series , literally from their first training , the thing is the hard work theme resonated with people the most

they were multiple themes running , and the destiny theme was there since part 1 , and again naruto broke his destiny it was destined like hashirama madara and indura and ashura that naruto and sasuke be enemies forever , they weren’t , heck it was repeated multiple times naruto saying he and sasuke weren’t gonna end up like indura and ashura , sasuke and naruto had differences and similarities with their predecessors

the issue I have with folks sayings that naruto was all about hard work it just wasn’t , and defying destiny , it still did
I’m not saying it’s perfect or it executed all its themes well but this take is said again and again without being fair to kishi

 

[Sachsenhesse]

Slashing vs blunt damage, totally.

If Luffy used 103 mercies with the strength he has now, it would probably devastate Kaido whereas Zoro using Supreme King Kong Gun would do fan less damage than Luffy's version

Not quite, since Luffys most devastating blows are all relying on the "gomu gomu" fruit. With basestats he couldnt hold a candle damagewise with swords. Especially since zoros training is always with swords and the corresponding muscles.

In the end they would do the same damage honestly if we switched their powers.

But the fuck happened to this thread. A powerleveldiscussion with narutoreferences.

 

[Lord Traffy Law]

Do you guys believe that Zoro and Sanji will be stronger than Yamato by the end of the manga?

If she joins the crew? Yes.

100%.
No need to wait till end of manga, will happen next arc itself.

Zoro arguably is already strong than Yamato, or at least in same tier even if weaker.
Sanji will surpass her next arc.

If Yamato ends up joining, this will be further solidified.
It'll be like another Jinbe scenario. There will be some doubts in the beginning, but monster trio will prevail as usual



The one sword technique was powerful enough to make BM ask Kaido to dodge.
Whether he dodged or Zoro missed, as debated heavily in the forums, we'll have to see when the anime comes out.
Zoro also damaged him with dragon twister.


To me, it seems like Zoro was hitting harder in the beginning. And, I don't think this is an outlandish claim to make, Zoro cut a city sized mountain back in Dresrossa arc, Zoro has always stuck above his tier.
Currently, yeah. It's debatable IMO, because Luffy surely had a bigger boost from advanced conqueror's than Zoro.

That’s really not certified , when oden joined on the last journey, he was in the range from 2nd strongest to 4th strongest on Rogers crew ( honestly very strong argument for oden being the 2nd or 3rd strongest )

Yamato is again the “new” oden and progeny of kaido , that’s an insane legacy of strength, it’s not book stamped that Zoro and sanji end up stronger than Yamato , much less likely with sanji , Zoro might , seeing as mihawk is a top tier ( not quite sure mihawk was more poweful than oden but we’d never know ) , and I don’t believe mihawk is more powerful than kaido

 

[XXGenesis]

I'll just put my numbers as well.

I actually think Zoro hits harder than Luffy, but he's below Luffy in every other category.

Assuming luffy is 10 in every category. Zoro would be:
Attack power : 11
Durability: 8
CQC/defense: 8
Pure Speed: 4
Attack speed/Blitz speed: 9
Stamina: 7

Conqueror's haki: 3
Armament haki: 9
Observation haki: 5

Luffy wouldn’t be a 10 in every category, as that would indicate he’s the strongest…

Mine went like this
Luffy
Power:9
Speed:8
Durability:8
Stamina:9
Skills:8.5
Haki:9
51/60

Zoro
Power-8
Speed-6.5
Durability-5
Stamina-8
Skills-7.5
Haki-7.5
42/60

11-off the charts
10-Highest rating

I think this is a realistic gap that exist between Luffy & his 1st mate.

In terms of lifting I think Luffy & Zoro can most likely lift the same weight. In terms of destruction/damage/power. Luffy still comes out higher, even though Zoro can cut a ship in half.

 

[Sachsenhesse]

Luffy Zoro
Power:9 9
Speed:8 8
Durability:10 9
Stamina:9 10
Skills:9 (with awakening 10) 9 (if he masteres CoO 10)
Haki:9 8

would be mine

 

[Rein Avara]

Category	Luffy	Zoro
Power	9.5	8.5
Speed	9	7.5
Durability	9	8.5
Stamina	8.5	8
Skill	9	8.5
Haki	9.5	8
Total	54.5	49

I think where Zoro lacks in speed he makes up for in insane reaction time.

 

[Pirate Queen]

Category	Luffy	Zoro
Power	9.5	8.5
Speed	9	7.5
Durability	9	8.5
Stamina	8.5	8
Skill	9	8.5
Haki	9.5	8
Total	54.5	49

I like that set up

 

[really_jonny]

Category	Luffy	Zoro
Attack Power	8.0	9.5
Speed	9.0	7.0
Durability	9.0	8.5
Stamina	8.5	8.5
Skill	9.0	8.0
Haki	9.5	7.5
Total	53.0	49.0

 

[McNuss]

What does this even mean?

The problem with assigning these statpoints is that without any kind of context, it is nothing but numbers.

Like what do these numbers mean in context of the enemies they faced? And good luck trying to solve this with a 1-10 scala, it cannot work. Also what kind of categories are these? It doesn't really justify the vastness of abilities and skills within One Piece.

It also creates sexual bias. One Piece pretty much implies men have higher physical strenght than women, yet it does not matter where you place overall as a fighter. This system, the way you are using it right now means Usopp > Robin.

I think what you end up is simply working one step around from simply ranking the characters.

 

[XXGenesis]

Ex of 10’s or 11’s….

Power 11/10- Prime WB/ Kaido
Speed 11/10/9- Teleportation or FS/ Brook or blitz / Sanji
Durability 11/10/9- Jody’s diamond/ Big Mom’s iron skin/ Kaido’s scales
Stamina 11/10/- Kanjuro*/Kaido
Skills 11/10/9- Mihawk/ Doffy or Katakuri/ Awakening’s
Haki 11/10- Roger/ Yonkou

I.e…Why Luffy does not deserve a 10 ranking

 

[Rein Avara]

What does this even mean?

The problem with assigning these statpoints is that without any kind of context, it is nothing but numbers.

Like what do these numbers mean in context of the enemies they faced? And good luck trying to solve this with a 1-10 scala, it cannot work. Also what kind of categories are these? It doesn't really justify the vastness of abilities and skills within One Piece.

It also creates sexual bias. One Piece pretty much implies men have higher physical strenght than women, yet it does not matter where you place overall as a fighter. This system, the way you are using it right now means Usopp > Robin.

I think what you end up is simply working one step around from simply ranking the characters.

It's just our views on the characters, people are obviously going to disagree.

 

[XXGenesis]

What does this even mean?

The problem with assigning these statpoints is that without any kind of context, it is nothing but numbers.

Like what do these numbers mean in context of the enemies they faced? And good luck trying to solve this with a 1-10 scala, it cannot work. Also what kind of categories are these? It doesn't really justify the vastness of abilities and skills within One Piece.

It also creates sexual bias. One Piece pretty much implies men have higher physical strenght than women, yet it does not matter where you place overall as a fighter. This system, the way you are using it right now means Usopp > Robin.

I think what you end up is simply working one step around from simply ranking the characters.

The numbers would have to be paired with the portrayal of characters feats.

 

[Pirate Queen]

Category	Zoro	Luffy
Power	8	10
Speed	6	9.5
Durability	8	9
Stamina	8	10
Skill	10	9
Haki	8.5	9.5
Total	48.5	57