Society Religious Discussion and Q&A Thread

[xi0]

I didn't know this, holy crap

But that'd probably put her closer to Heaven? Or maybe not because of her agnostic views.

She described it as suffering the way Jesus did on the cross. It is in a way logically consistent as some sort of religious meditation. However, the issue is that her clinics were filled with people seeking medical aid, and to not give simple things like even pain medicine when your coffers are full is ghastly and inhumane. She was not interested in healing people, she was interested in converting people before they died. Those are essentially her own words.




Of course Hitchens was renowned for being an antitheist, but that doesn't invalidate the claims. If a deity and hell exists, and they didn't put someone like Theresa there, how would they be worth worshipping?

 

[Sanity Check]

...

 

[xi0]

Getting something out of mythology doesn't require belief though

 

[ninjabot]

I had a brilliant idea!

Instead of waiting for theists to get the guts to ask us atheists questions about what we think about religious subjects, we can answer the Christian Apologists that have the guts to ask these questions! Not only does it give us edgy teenage atheists the conflict we so desire, but any theists watching will get to learn how bad their arguments are without even having to contribute!

I'M A GENIUS!!!

I'll warn ya'll though: Braxton Hunter's a little on the pre-suppositionalist kinda side so you might find yourself vomiting uncontrollably by the time you get to question 5.

And... GO!

 

[M3J]

As someone who does not want to hear or watch the video, can someone provide the questions for me please?

 

[xi0]

Okay, I'll bite

1. I don't believe a worldview's value is reflected in how well it can explain or account for the different aspects of our existence. Something being inexplicable is not inherently bad, in fact something offering everything all the time is something I'm inherently distrustful of.

2. What if my definition of atheism isn't just a "lack of belief in God"? Whether that's atheist and whether I'm atheist or not, I don't find it disingenuous to compare a "God" to another concept or thing that I believe doesn't exist. I think this question is probably better aimed at those that identify as agnostic. This question is kind of pointless and mind-numbing to me. Who are my listeners? lol

3. Yes, I do understand why that might send that message to people. I don't care and I don't see what your point is in bringing this up. There is nothing inherently wrong with sexwork or not saving yourself for marriage.

4. Go ask an agnostic person if you want someone to quantify a lack of belief. You are an atheist as well, just not about the Monotheistic Abrahamic God.

5. If a creator exists and that's the best explanation for the existence of the universe, it almost certainly doesn't line-up with the Biblical explanations. So no, I don't believe there being a clear answer to the question of the origins of the universe undercuts atheism in any way.

6. Yes, to piggyback on the last answer - a "creator" might be responsible for the existence of reality. But again, that has no bearing on religion's explanations for it.

7. Atheists are not solipsists, so I don't get this comparison. Any evidence for God is usually very personal, that's not something that is universal. Other things that can be "proven" are. This is why religion is a faith.

8. There came a point where the concept of God or religion seemed useless for me personally. That others find comfort and meaning in it is not something I care about. Sure, my opposition to orthodox views on social issues certainly reinforce my feeling on this topic, but I didn't drift away from doctrine or orthopraxy because of some sort of personal conflict. I no longer saw the point in it and was no longer fearful of the randomness that life has.

9. Don't see the relevance. In an earlier question you mentioned putting aside "debate mode" or something. I'm not interested in living my life by debating something I have no interest in.

10. No I probably wouldn't. I would probably be sent to Hell. Hope that helps.

 

[ninjabot]

2. What if my definition of atheism isn't just a "lack of belief in God"? Whether that's atheist and whether I'm atheist or not, I don't find it disingenuous to compare a "God" to another concept or thing that I believe doesn't exist. I think this question is probably better aimed at those that identify as agnostic. This question is kind of pointless and mind-numbing to me. Who are my listeners? lol

It's an attempt at saddling you with the burden of proof. Youtube atheists and a lot of the "new atheists" that follow them tend to use the same "I'm not sufficiently convinced that a God exists" argument (me too), and that stalls apologists because for decades they've armed themselves with arguments intended to shunt off their own burden of proof so that they don't have to admit that they can't prove the existence of their god.

Braxton doesn't want you to say you don't believe in Santa. He wants you to say "I believe Santa doesn't exist", so that if you've ever compared Santa to God, he can assert that YOU are asserting that you believe God doesn't exist... thus justifying him demanding you prove his God doesn't exist, instead of him having to prove his god DOES exist.

3. Yes, I do understand why that might send that message to people. I don't care and I don't see what your point is in bringing this up. There is nothing inherently wrong with sexwork or not saving yourself for marriage.

Pretty sure he just wants to explain away the people that use the "Y'all just wanna sin" argument, while he himself can pretend he's above such strawmen.

8. There came a point where the concept of God or religion seemed useless for me personally. That others find comfort and meaning in it is not something I care about. Sure, my opposition to orthodox views on social issues certainly reinforce my feeling on this topic, but I didn't drift away from doctrine or orthopraxy because of some sort of personal conflict. I no longer saw the point in it and was no longer fearful of the randomness that life has.

I'm the exact opposite. I valued my faith throughout most of my life, up until around 14. I started having a crisis of faith as I read about the things in the bible that I viewed as immoral. It didn't convince me god didn't exist, but it did convince me that the Christian god as described doesn't exist. And the questions I had for my parents and pastor weren't satisfactory so. Combine that with access to the internet and there you go.

 

[xi0]

I'm the exact opposite. I valued my faith throughout most of my life, up until around 14. I started having a crisis of faith as I read about the things in the bible that I viewed as immoral. It didn't convince me god didn't exist, but it did convince me that the Christian god as described doesn't exist. And the questions I had for my parents and pastor weren't satisfactory so. Combine that with access to the internet and there you go.

I guess I might have been similar but I don't remember examining that consciously I guess. Or at least it didn't feel like a moral crisis. As a catholic, the community was more emphasized than just the doctrine. So it probably was easier to just see religion for what it was for a lot of people.

 

[ninjabot]

After Atheist youtube responded to Braxton he made a second list that was shorter and less cunty. I'll actually write out the questions this time since they aren't as long winded as the first vid:

1: If you have a deconversion story from any religion, share it. What worldview were you raised with?
2: Are there anything at all that Christian Apologists or philosophers bring that you would consider good evidence for God. If not, how do you define evidence?
3: Do you like dogs or cats. Both or niether?
4: What Christian in your family has the best chance of convincing you to become a Christian, and why?
5: Favorite Film and or TV show?
6: Did Jesus exist? And if so, how reasonable is it for people to believe that he didn't exist?
7: What's your favorite response to a specific contingency argument. Pick any one.
8: On your understanding of Christianity, what does it take for you to become a Christian and experience everlasting life?
9: Whether you believe the bible or not, do you think that the bible teaches of an eternal conscious suffering in hell, ultimate universal salvation, or annihilation theory?
10: What is the most dangerous or problematic issue that Christians hold to (not talking about a person, movement, or a party).

I didn't answer the first vid. I recon I'll contribute first by answering the second one.

1: I answered this above in one of my responses to xi0. The bible had fucked up shit in it that made me feel like a bad person for adhering to a religion that worshipped a God who would sanction such things. I was raised Southern Baptist however.

2: I don't consider any apologists to have presented anything that I'd dub "good evidence for God". Sure there's evidence... it's just it's all bad evidence that shouldn't be considered sufficient to anyone that applies the most basic everyday type of skepticism to the claims of the bible.

3: Both. I've got a golden lab named Sunny.

4: In the vid he says "even if no one could, someone would have a better chance than the others." Unfortunately for him he doesn't know my family, lmao. My mom asked her pastor to talk to me about religion because she didn't have the theological education to counter the most memey youtube atheist debate-bro responses I kept using. And none of them can grant me the one thing it would take to convince me that a God exists.

5: The Last Dragon... and I dunno... Firefly maybe?

6: I don't know if the Jesus in the bible existed... it was a very common name. It'd be like asking me if someone named John exists. I think it's reasonable to believe that the particular Jesus in the bible as defined doesn't exist (what with edo tensei and transmutation jutsu)

7: I don't have a favorite contingency argument, and I suspect this is an attempt to make people who don't fuck with contingency arguments umm... contend with them. The only one I know of is the Kalam, and I can beat that one myself with my insufficiency of education (which should explain how bad it is).

Premise 1: Everything that comes into existence has a cause.
Premise 2: The universe came into existence.
Conclusion: The universe has a cause.

Christian apologists LOVE the Kalam (namely William Lane Craig), despite it not actually leading to a god, let alone the Christian God.

8: Repent and accept Jesus as your lord and savior is the simple answer. This seems like an attempt at a No True Scotsman tho >.>

9: The eternal conscious suffering. The bible is vague enough to argue for annihilation theory if you wanted, but I think there's more that refers to the lake of fire.

10: LMFAO, I love how he wanted to distance Christians from QAnon, Trump, and the Republican party. This vid came out in 2021 after all. I think the anti-science stuff is the most dangerous, since it branches outward into so much of the world. Mental health, bodily autonomy, medical practices, all of that stuff.

 

[Sanity Check]

With religion.

Most acknowledge being exposed to different ideas and facts, will change them.

Learning about religion or anything real is a transformation process:

Most fear that change and avoid it.

 

[ninjabot]

With religion.

Most acknowledge being exposed to different ideas and facts, will change them.

I agree. It's why theists are warned not to talk to atheists. We're called "the enemy". It's feared that we're going to corrupt them with our evil trickery. Calvinists even go as far as to say there's no such thing as an atheist because God's nature is written on everyone's hearts before we're even born.

Being exposed to the superiority of secular humanism DID change me.

For the better.

 

[Sanity Check]

I agree. It's why theists are warned not to talk to atheists. We're called "the enemy". It's feared that we're going to corrupt them with our evil trickery. Calvinists even go as far as to say there's no such thing as an atheist because God's nature is written on everyone's hearts before we're even born.

Being exposed to the superiority of secular humanism DID change me.

For the better.

Separating the left wing from the right wing on the internet is a new trend only a few years old.

Prior to this, atheists were encouraged to debate with christians at every opportunity.

When atheists gain power, they do the best job of educating everyone what true atheism is.

There is no need to discuss or debate it, everyone is seeing what it is, right now.

And they will see much more of it in the future.

 

[xi0]

Separating the left wing from the right wing on the internet is a new trend only a few years old.

No it's not

--- Double Post Merged, May 4, 2022, Original Post Date: May 4, 2022 ---

Most self-proclaiming atheists are very interested in debate, they even make it their entire personality. Many theists believe the country they live in should be theocratic and would have no issue with that being the case. There's bit of a paradox at hand when the atheist is more on the side of religious freedom than some believers.

 

[Sanity Check]

No it's not

Algorithmic filtering of content to prevent the left wing from coming into contact with the right wing on social media platforms like twitter.

Is only a few years old.

That filtering didn't exist in 2016 when Trump ran.

 

[xi0]

1: If you have a deconversion story from any religion, share it. What worldview were you raised with?

No, I don't. I went through catechism and was confirmed because my Mother wanted it. After confirmation I no longer attended mass and never felt compelled to.

My Mother is Catholic and my Father is Methodist, but neither really practiced their religions in any noteworthy way. For my Mother, she seemed more concerned with superstitions then any actual religious doctrine.

2: Are there anything at all that Christian Apologists or philosophers bring that you would consider good evidence for God. If not, how do you define evidence?

No. Purposeful and meaningful testimony can be a very powerful thing for people and a reason for their belief, but that isn't evidence of God existing.

I don't need to define what evidence is. If there was something objectively compelling there, this debate wouldn't exist... or at the very least the nature of it would be quite different.

3: Do you like dogs or cats. Both or niether?

Both, but I'm allergic to cats so I never owned one.

4: What Christian in your family has the best chance of convincing you to become a Christian, and why?

The most "Christian" person in my family is a philandering thief, so I wouldn't be listening to anything they say unfortunately.

5: Favorite Film and or TV show?

The Big Lebowski and The Leftovers

6: Did Jesus exist? And if so, how reasonable is it for people to believe that he didn't exist?

Probably? But I think it's probably reasonable to doubt most of what can be considered historical fact beyond someone living that had his name.

7: What's your favorite response to a specific contingency argument. Pick any one.

There isn't one. I'm not sure if I find that being reductive about a concept we can't fully understand adds anything of value to any argument really. The entire idea of a disembodied mind (God) creating everything and that being the only explanation is so silly. Why does no one account for the very real possibility/probability that a mind IS CONTINGENT ON HAVING A BODY???

8: On your understanding of Christianity, what does it take for you to become a Christian and experience everlasting life?

Belief and living life according to doctrine

9: Whether you believe the bible or not, do you think that the bible teaches of an eternal conscious suffering in hell, ultimate universal salvation, or annihilation theory?

Much of the Christian idea of Hell doesn't come from scripture. But we all know that is irrelevant.

10: What is the most dangerous or problematic issue that Christians hold to (not talking about a person, movement, or a party).

Original sin

--- Double Post Merged, May 4, 2022, Original Post Date: May 4, 2022 ---

When atheists gain power, they do the best job of educating everyone what true atheism is.

There is no need to discuss or debate it, everyone is seeing what it is, right now.

And they will see much more of it in the future.

Btw, what's true atheism?

 

[Sanity Check]

Btw, what's true atheism?

As with most things in this world, there are 2 components.

1. The marketing campaign and hype train

2. The real deal

Atheism definitely has these two components to it. The facade and the essence.

The catch is, anyone who chooses to see through the marketing campaign is free to do so.

It is questionable as to how many make that choice, some believe they're better off not knowing.

 

[xi0]

As with most things in this world, there are 2 components.

1. The marketing campaign and hype train

2. The real deal

Atheism definitely has these two components to it. The facade and the essence.

The catch is, anyone who chooses to see through the marketing campaign is free to do so.

It is questionable as to how many make that choice, some believe they're better off not knowing.

What's true atheism?

 

[Sanity Check]

What's true atheism?

Disagree with atheists on the internet. Argue with them.

Observe their reactions and impulses.

That will tell you more about the true nature of atheism than Richard Dawkins or Christopher Hitchens ever could.

 

[xi0]

Disagree with atheists on the internet. Argue with them.

Observe their reactions and impulses.

That will tell you more about the true nature of atheism than Richard Dawkins or Christopher Hitchens ever could.

You think Dawkins or Hitchens are/were always polite about their viewpoints?

I don't know what this has to do with a "true atheist" angle that you're insisting on. You're implying that it's almost conspiratorial or something so I'm asking you what you're talking about and you still won't really give me an answer. Some random Twitterer or Youtuber being petulant? How is that worth invoking an appeal to purity fallacy, give me something of substance please.

 

[M3J]

1: If you have a deconversion story from any religion, share it. What worldview were you raised with?
2: Are there anything at all that Christian Apologists or philosophers bring that you would consider good evidence for God. If not, how do you define evidence?
3: Do you like dogs or cats. Both or niether?
4: What Christian in your family has the best chance of convincing you to become a Christian, and why?
5: Favorite Film and or TV show?
6: Did Jesus exist? And if so, how reasonable is it for people to believe that he didn't exist?
7: What's your favorite response to a specific contingency argument. Pick any one.
8: On your understanding of Christianity, what does it take for you to become a Christian and experience everlasting life?
9: Whether you believe the bible or not, do you think that the bible teaches of an eternal conscious suffering in hell, ultimate universal salvation, or annihilation theory?
10: What is the most dangerous or problematic issue that Christians hold to (not talking about a person, movement, or a party).

1. Hated wasting time praying when I didn't give a shit and hated following rules like no meat.

2. Nope, none. I need tangible proof or something, not a possibility of manmade stuff like a boat somewhere that anyone can just claim was Noah's.

3. Dogs but kind of cats a bit more than before. Still dogs are kings/queens.

4. N/A

5. can't think of any right off the bat, but maybe Godfather or Godfather II for movie.

6. Likely did. It is reasonable, especially since there's no picture of him or anything.

7. Dunno?

8. Nothing, it's all horseshit and meant to control people.

9. Probably suffering in hell and all things negative.

10. Almost everything, from justifying white supremacy to hatred against LGBT+ and women.