Society Religious Discussion and Q&A Thread

[Sanity Check]

I don't know what this has to do with a "true atheist" angle that you're insisting on. You're implying that it's almost conspiratorial

If christianity is the religion of the poor.

Atheism is the religion of the super rich.

...

 

[xi0]

If christianity is the religion of the poor.

Atheism is the religion of the super rich.

...

Then how do you explain the incredible wealth accrued by religions and religious organizations?

What is it about wealth that would draw anyone to atheism?

 

[kkck]

I suppose this nail has been hammered through the wall and into the void by now but atheism is in no way, shape or form a religion.

 

[ninjabot]

Btw, what's true atheism?

True atheists don't put sugar on their porridge.

 

[xi0]

I have a feeling that it's that kind of logical fallacy, but he avoids anything of substance so you can only guess.

I just don't get where the conclusion that the very wealthy are all atheists comes from. I guess it's easier to paint them as evil? Not that I think that characterization has to be too far off the mark, I just don't think it has anything to do with their belief system. Or if they claim to be adherents then I guess they're not "true" adherents either... but even given that, that doesn't make them atheists at all. If someone is a liar and/or a heretic, that doesn't make them atheistic.

 

[Sanity Check]

I suppose this nail has been hammered through the wall and into the void by now but atheism is in no way, shape or form a religion.

A burden of proof is on you to validate this claim.

--- Double Post Merged, May 5, 2022, Original Post Date: May 5, 2022 ---

Then how do you explain the incredible wealth accrued by religions and religious organizations?

What is it about wealth that would draw anyone to atheism?

Wealthy religious organizations push hard political agendas.

They do not work in the interests of those they represent or God.

 

[M3J]

If christianity is the religion of the poor.

Atheism is the religion of the super rich.

...

The irony of this statement is that tons of religious figures like Joel Osteen are using religion to become wealthy and fleecing their followers into donating money, while doing shit like blocking off their megachurch from people wanting to seek safety from bad weather. Majority of Christians claim to be followers of Jesus, but they do the exact opposite of what he believed in and taught.

 

[xi0]

Wealthy religious organizations push hard political agendas.

They do not work in the interests of those they represent or God.

Perhaps, but that doesn't make them atheists. Not literally and not ideologically.

--- Double Post Merged, May 5, 2022, Original Post Date: May 5, 2022 ---

The most hardline, militant, and annoying as fuck atheist criticizes religion for the exact same reasons you are bringing up right now.

 

[Sanity Check]

The irony of this statement is that tons of religious figures like Joel Osteen are using religion to become wealthy and fleecing their followers into donating money, while doing shit like blocking off their megachurch from people wanting to seek safety from bad weather. Majority of Christians claim to be followers of Jesus, but they do the exact opposite of what he believed in and taught.

None of those types rank in the top 1000 richest in the world.

Its an atheist dominated demographic.

Elon Musk openly bashed religion on his twitter account in 2020 or 2021.

--- Double Post Merged, May 5, 2022, Original Post Date: May 5, 2022 ---

Perhaps, but that doesn't make them atheists. Not literally and not ideologically.

--- Double Post Merged, May 5, 2022, Original Post Date: May 5, 2022 ---

The most hardline, militant, and annoying as fuck atheist criticizes religion for the exact same reasons you are bringing up right now.

There is a very long list of those claiming to be christian and muslim.

Who parrot atheist narratives 24/7.

I have seen the pope do it.

 

[M3J]

They're still using religion to gain wealth.

And do you have proof that it's an "atheist dominated" demographic?

 

[z.5]

There is a very long list of those claiming to be christian and muslim.

Who parrot atheist narratives 24/7

I have seen the pope do it.

One sec... Are you saying that The Pope (the supreme pontif, the bishop of Rome) is an atheist?!?

I think that the issue here is [perhaps] the ambiguity of the term 'atheist'

This also relates to your earlier demand for proof

If one, like many 'atheists', define atheism as

a lack of belief in God/gods

then there is no burden of proof whatsoever (as they are not stating something as true/false, merely that they do not believe)

If, however, one defines atheism as

a strong disbelief/rejection of the existence of God/gods

then there is potentially a burden of proof there - depending on how/when you use the term and why you use it/what you are doing


To me, it seems you fall into the 2nd category - or, perhaps, even a third category of 'atheists are people who don't believe exactly what I believe'?


I've heard 'Christians' try and argue that The Pope is secretly a Satanist, but never [before now] that he is an atheist

 

[kkck]

A burden of proof is on you to validate this claim.

Burden of proof? It's in the word's definition.

 

[xi0]

There is a very long list of those claiming to be christian and muslim.

Who parrot atheist narratives 24/7.

I have seen the pope do it.

The word you're looking for is charlatan, not atheist.

Hope this helps.

 

[Sanity Check]

The word you're looking for is charlatan, not atheist.

Hope this helps.

There are many "christians" who pretend to care about God if they believe it will grant them fame, money and power in life.

There are many "muslims" who pretend to care about Allah if they believe it will grant them fame, power and money.

When it comes to being a legitimate believer however there are not many who can claim this and be honest about it.

And yeah most of the false prophets and pretenders would more accurately be categorized as atheist.

--- Double Post Merged, May 6, 2022, Original Post Date: May 6, 2022 ---

They're still using religion to gain wealth.

And do you have proof that it's an "atheist dominated" demographic?

Try to name rich and powerful right wing figures of history.

Off the top of my head, it would go something like...

Noah, King Solomon, King David, Marcus Aurelius, Julius Caesar.

(There aren't many of them)

Try to name rich and powerful right wing figures of today.

(I think governors DeSantis of florida and Abbott of texas are both left wing they're both weak cronies with no real power who bend the knee)

Closest thing we have today to a legit right wing ruling class:

Donald Trump, Jair Bolsonaro, Vladimir Putin. While there are others, those are (in some cases: were) the main ones.

The overwhelming majority of rich and powerful demographic are left wing atheist.

There are only a tiny handful of minority who are legit right wing with money or power.

--- Double Post Merged, May 6, 2022 ---

One sec... Are you saying that The Pope (the supreme pontif, the bishop of Rome) is an atheist?!?

The world's greatest minds have said it.

Since the 1940s.

But yeah. Why not. Its a ground breaking discovery apparently.

--- Double Post Merged, May 6, 2022 ---

Burden of proof? It's in the word's definition.

Atheism and religion are rival ideologies.

The way that coke and pepsi or intel and AMD are rivals competing for the same market share.

 

[kkck]

Atheism and religion are rival ideologies.

The way that coke and pepsi or intel and AMD are rivals competing for the same market share.

Even if that were the case (which is a pretty wonky claim to begin with) it still does not change that atheism is in no way, shape or form a religion.

 

[xi0]

There are many "christians" who pretend to care about God if they believe it will grant them fame, money and power in life.

There are many "muslims" who pretend to care about Allah if they believe it will grant them fame, power and money.

When it comes to being a legitimate believer however there are not many who can claim this and be honest about it.

And yeah most of the false prophets and pretenders would more accurately be categorized as atheist.

There is no ideological precept pushing atheists into taking advantage of people by lying about their lack of belief. But there certainly is a path and incentive for people to do this with religion.

Even if you know what is in those people's hearts and they really consider themselves atheists willingly lying to people for personal gain, then they are still swindlers before anything else. Acting like this is the "true" nature of atheists is baseless and offensive. You are an atheist yourself and lack the self-awareness to acknowledge this.

 

[z.5]

The world's greatest minds have said it

Since the 1940s

I'm not sure which authority you are aiming to appeal to here...

But yeah. Why not. Its a ground breaking discovery apparently

Why not?
Because it's obviously a mad thing to say

Whether you are a Catholic, or not, to say that the head of the Catholic church doesn't follow the same religion is nonsensical

He might not believe exactly what you believe (and his beliefs might well be incorrect), but it's pretty obvious that he is a Catholic (and therefore a Christian [even if the wrong 'type'])

 

[xi0]

Whether you are a Catholic, or not, to say that the head of the Catholic church doesn't follow the same religion is nonsensical

He has the dates wrong, but it's possible he's referring to those that are called Sedevacantists that believe the Bishop of Rome hasn't been rightfully held since the 60s and reject all of the Popes since then as illegitimate.

But even if we decided to be that generous in our interpretation, that doesn't make anyone in the Vatican an atheist...

 

[Brandish μ]

I'd be something like an agnostic theist, not an atheist, but I'll do the questionnaire:

1: If you have a deconversion story from any religion, share it. What worldview were you raised with?
2: Are there anything at all that Christian Apologists or philosophers bring that you would consider good evidence for God. If not, how do you define evidence?
3: Do you like dogs or cats. Both or niether?
4: What Christian in your family has the best chance of convincing you to become a Christian, and why?
5: Favorite Film and or TV show?
6: Did Jesus exist? And if so, how reasonable is it for people to believe that he didn't exist?
7: What's your favorite response to a specific contingency argument. Pick any one.
8: On your understanding of Christianity, what does it take for you to become a Christian and experience everlasting life?
9: Whether you believe the bible or not, do you think that the bible teaches of an eternal conscious suffering in hell, ultimate universal salvation, or annihilation theory?
10: What is the most dangerous or problematic issue that Christians hold to (not talking about a person, movement, or a party).

1. Christian (Anglican). I attended Sunday school until I was 12-13, until my grandmother got sick basically. Went to a Catholic high school.
2. I do not know the content which the Apologists or philosophers bring, so that's where I'm at.
3. Dogs.
4. My father. He doesn't go to church but he's religious. If he wanted me to go with him to church, I'd go. That's as close as I could be 'convinced', I don't really like that wording either.
5. The Last Wave, The Wire
6. I'll say yes. It's reasonable for people to think he didn't exist, assuming they're being reasonable.
7. I don't know of these responses, and have a vague memory of the argument.
8. Discipline, persistence, community (other Christians).
9. No.
10. It's a problematic issue (for religion) if the item in question is in direct opposition to where 'secular society' is moving towards.

 

[ninjabot]

I'd be something like an agnostic theist, not an atheist, but I'll do the questionnaire:



1. Christian (Anglican). I attended Sunday school until I was 12-13, until my grandmother got sick basically. Went to a Catholic high school.
2. I do not know the content which the Apologists or philosophers bring, so that's where I'm at.
3. Dogs.
4. My father. He doesn't go to church but he's religious. If he wanted me to go with him to church, I'd go. That's as close as I could be 'convinced', I don't really like that wording either.
5. The Last Wave, The Wire
6. I'll say yes. It's reasonable for people to think he didn't exist, assuming they're being reasonable.
7. I don't know of these responses, and have a vague memory of the argument.
8. Discipline, persistence, community (other Christians).
9. No.
10. It's a problematic issue (for religion) if the item in question is in direct opposition to where 'secular society' is moving towards.

Thank you so much for contributing. I mean that. Admittedly, these questions where meant to be answered by Atheists, but the fact that you're willing to be open about your beliefs says a lot about your character, and I'm proud of you for having the courage to share despite knowing most of us are Atheists here. And I admire your ability to do so without condescension.

I didn't bother putting up a list of questions for theists because admittedly, I didn't expect anyone to be interested in contributing to the conversation.