Games Mafia Game 102 - Genswap Impact: End Game

[Copy Panda]

omo! but in fake spanish

Spoiler: Night Actions MG102!

 

[shinobi]

This chaos

So if X is det/doc, X swaps with Y who is red, now Y becomes the new doc/det and X turned red and knows who the doc/det is so the mafia can just kill Y now. Did I get it right?

--- Double Post Merged, Jun 16, 2022, Original Post Date: Jun 16, 2022 ---

Haven't fully caught up yet but here's some input in the meantime.

I had my role before. I know some people don't like it but I was actually considering keeping it as I had some successful runs with it in the past. This mecha makes me bit doubtful though.





Hmm, if that's really possible then let's do a pair system and "break" their game, or at least push the limits. It seems like a whole mess in early game that I am actually started regretting having signed up so I am down to bring some structure in it.

I made alphabetical pairs. Let me know if that idea is majority-proof.

Asako	AwkwardMisha
Brandish	Crescent Jinx
Demonspeed	Erinyes
Evil3ye	Gajeel
GB	GrySun
Holt	James
Lambu	Marmalade
Shad	shinobi
SirSamuel	SonOfDaws
Tatsumaki	Vandred

Gnut (the refuser) we lynch today, so it's even 20.

A plan to break the game you say?

 

[Marmalade]

Haven't fully caught up yet but here's some input in the meantime.

I had my role before. I know some people don't like it but I was actually considering keeping it as I had some successful runs with it in the past. This mecha makes me bit doubtful though.





Hmm, if that's really possible then let's do a pair system and "break" their game, or at least push the limits. It seems like a whole mess in early game that I am actually started regretting having signed up so I am down to bring some structure in it.

I made alphabetical pairs. Let me know if that idea is majority-proof.

Asako	AwkwardMisha
Brandish	Crescent Jinx
Demonspeed	Erinyes
Evil3ye	Gajeel
GB	GrySun
Holt	James
Lambu	Marmalade
Shad	shinobi
SirSamuel	SonOfDaws
Tatsumaki	Vandred

Gnut (the refuser) we lynch today, so it's even 20.

Eeeww why am I paired with Lambu. Just kidding haha.

i think its an interesting idea and probably the only way to make the night phase in terms of swapping less chaotic! Do wonder if everyone will go along with this… it does feel ambitious, and how are scum going to respond to this?

--- Double Post Merged, Jun 16, 2022, Original Post Date: Jun 16, 2022 ---

What I am trying to say is, I don’t think it will work unfortunately

 

[GrySun]

Ok reading it again I understand where I misread it. Shad is right that:
1. Mafia/TP can not pick a person at night to swap with.
2. Doesn‘t need 2 to tango. Me targetting gnut makes me swap with gnut at the end of the night.

We can probably in limited fashion take advantage of that mafias can‘t swap, if we organize and it is followed upon then the pairs should all stay with same roles, except those that swapped with a mafia only swapped 1 time so both changed.

I think I don‘t like this mechanic. Takes too much away from MG and makes us solve the mystery with other tools than playing mafia.

--- Double Post Merged, Jun 16, 2022, Original Post Date: Jun 16, 2022 ---

And I say „limited fashion“ because depending on number of blockers they will screw with some townie-townie pairs by blocking one of them. Or a Prostitute randomly blocking a guy.

But even then, the pair will know if the other is town or mafia.

Does the game really get solved on D2? Or extremely narrowed down at least.

 

[Demonspeed]

Haven't fully caught up yet but here's some input in the meantime.

I had my role before. I know some people don't like it but I was actually considering keeping it as I had some successful runs with it in the past. This mecha makes me bit doubtful though.





Hmm, if that's really possible then let's do a pair system and "break" their game, or at least push the limits. It seems like a whole mess in early game that I am actually started regretting having signed up so I am down to bring some structure in it.

I made alphabetical pairs. Let me know if that idea is majority-proof.

Asako	AwkwardMisha
Brandish	Crescent Jinx
Demonspeed	Erinyes
Evil3ye	Gajeel
GB	GrySun
Holt	James
Lambu	Marmalade
Shad	shinobi
SirSamuel	SonOfDaws
Tatsumaki	Vandred

Gnut (the refuser) we lynch today, so it's even 20.

I don't want to break the game to begin with. It would be boring.

 

[Asako]

the only problem i have with this plan is losing the chance of being mason, if there one
I wanna swap with a mason
and me that be doing the swapping not them btw




and also I guess ending up as mafia in a rather mafia unfriendly mechanic, and making game boring for townie


but mason more important to me

 

[James Rye]

Not a great Top 3 bro .

That's scum talk, bro. Votekill Demonspeed.

Insulting my taste is as good as any reason to vote for on day 1. :P

Back, kind of, gotta go sleep in 1h. My initial thoughts, feel free to disagree or correct anything.

If a role is swapped.

I assume both players will know about it, as in they will get a PM stating the new role/allegiance.

I also assume that they won't be told who initiated the swap.

If this is true then if I catch a red with my swap, they won't know I'm red, but they will have my role, meaning any hint I dropped about it will play against my new allegiance.

It seems greens will need to find other greens, to win, if you find a red it will be bad for you since you will have to play differently as Lambu stated.

Only roles that need to confirm sanity will have issue swapping. If you are a Det for example and you get a new green role, provide your target / result for the previous night, without waiting for somebody to request it.

The pirate aspect of this mechanic is better than the actual role, so all town should try to swap with a person they trust.

What would happen if 2 people target the same person? Coin toss, winner get the swap, loser keep his role?



In that case it maybe smart to coordinate our swap in the day phase.

It we coordinate in the day phase, if a green switches with a red, we will know for sure who is the new red.

Obviously both will know, you would need to know if your new role can still keep switching or not until the switch phase of the game is done.

And if we all swap or better said one half swaps with the other waiting to see if they got swapped to avoid confusions or not then we can either confirm "new reds" as they had to lie about their role while the "new greens" can gleefully tell their freshly gained team who the new reds are while new said red cannot reswap his role and is doomed to die. Or the swap didn't happened from the side that was supposed to swap and thus we know the supposedly green weapon holder is sus cause they didn't follow the plan.

Okay so unless I'm too sleepy and tired, this mechanic looks sooo abusable. Like, we could ruin the game right now on N1. I'm sure if Hardy was here he'd have already made a plan that essentially flips the table.

Like, if we all make pairs of 2 that must swap their roles, everyone will swap, the "new" townies now know who should be a "new" mafia, and mafia loses.

Of course this means the unlucky townies would lose the game for this, however this sounds amazing for mafia because they will then become town and win LMAO.

I see Brandish calling it a "sacrifice", when the only ones sacrificing their win are townies that swap. Mafias swap into green victory, townies swap into something like 25%/75% red loss/green victory.
Ofc there's limitations like some uncooperative people(gnut) refusing to swap at all circumstances, but would at worst delay the game conclusion.

Though this is lame AF, and would waste our game of the month, so maybe the best bet is not abusing the mechanic and only having few people do the swap.
Which unfortunately renders a lot of the advantage moot, but I guess it can be fun shuffles for first few nights? The role-list is a work in progress, and we are tasked to complete it.

--- Double Post Merged, Jun 16, 2022, Original Post Date: Jun 16, 2022 ---

No problem there gnut. Just take the Det result of the guy the Det targetted and apply it to the guy who the target swapped with.

And if a Det swaps, can't they then openly D2 say "ok I was Det, to the guy I swapped with, X was guilty/innocent, so continue off from there!"? Without saying who they swapped with.

Though if 2 people must target each other there's like no way for this to happen accidentally and would need to be arranged openly at day to begin with.. Meh.

Yep, this game will be done if we do it the pair way. Easy as that, sure mafia can "break" one pair with a kill, maybe even 2 kills if we got a blue guy but like that won't really stop towns with 2 nights swapping and confirming one another.

Actually, if you swap with him and you swap with you, nothing will happen.

--- Double Post Merged, Jun 16, 2022, Original Post Date: Jun 16, 2022 ---

And mafia can't swap, but they can lie about doing it.

Sure they can, but if we do the pair thingie then lying turns out hard if the other one goes "yeah, no, that can't be, I was Mafia scum on day 1 so how can you still be green if I had turned green now?".

Haven't fully caught up yet but here's some input in the meantime.

I had my role before. I know some people don't like it but I was actually considering keeping it as I had some successful runs with it in the past. This mecha makes me bit doubtful though.





Hmm, if that's really possible then let's do a pair system and "break" their game, or at least push the limits. It seems like a whole mess in early game that I am actually started regretting having signed up so I am down to bring some structure in it.

I made alphabetical pairs. Let me know if that idea is majority-proof.

Asako	AwkwardMisha
Brandish	Crescent Jinx
Demonspeed	Erinyes
Evil3ye	Gajeel
GB	GrySun
Holt	James
Lambu	Marmalade
Shad	shinobi
SirSamuel	SonOfDaws
Tatsumaki	Vandred

Gnut (the refuser) we lynch today, so it's even 20.

Alright fine by me. I actually wanted to steal from gnut tonight to see what role he didn't wanted to lose/swap with someone else but if we lynch him we see his role anyway. And @Holt , my condolences, have fun with my role. Except you are red scum, then you better think up a good lie why I didn't got my role swapped tomorrow. ^^

 

[GrySun]

I don‘t agree with lynching gnut, he did revert on his stance as he understood the swapping mechanic more which is a good thing.

 

[Evil3ye]

i think its an interesting idea and probably the only way to make the night phase in terms of swapping less chaotic! Do wonder if everyone will go along with this… it does feel ambitious, and how are scum going to respond to this?

That's the beauty of it, they can't really as they cannot persue to swap with someone.

Thing is, I can force Gajeel to swap because I have a green role, but if he said he doesn't want to because he actually is red or blue, he will know that I am red or blue tomorrow and might want to go after my head. So I could be screwing over myself by swapping with him.

Everyone should keep that in mind as well.

 

[James Rye]

I don't want to break the game to begin with. It would be boring.

Mechanics are there to be exploited. Like with the Yugioh one with the item shop were town was basically given 3 "confirm townies by turning them into cowboys by selling their previous actual townie role" but nooooooo~, no one but me followed that plan and Mafia quickly brought those roles up to avoid having them used against themselves. And I think they won the game back then too.

We could also lynch you today and replace your name on the list with gnut if you want to. You would still have played the game "properly" before we broke it after night 1 and 2.

 

[Asako]

so from what i understand its not that both of the pair will swap in the same night but that one swap this night and the other swap next night ?

 

[James Rye]

I don‘t agree with lynching gnut, he did revert on his stance as he understood the swapping mechanic more which is a good thing.

Who would you like to lynch instead then? One of the people not liking the pair swap idea like Gaj or Demon?

 

[Evil3ye]

I would definitely go for one of the uncooperatives for lynch today, as well as tomorrow probably.

 

[James Rye]

so from what i understand its not that both of the pair will swap in the same night but that one swap this night and the other swap next night ?

Yeah, one swaps the other waits. Since red/blue cannot swap they would have to kill the guy they are supposed to be swapping with which makes them sus. If green swaps with a red/blue, the new green would know who the new red/blue guy is due the pair system and goes "ok, folks, I am no longer scum". And since the new red/blue are unable to swap they are pretty much trapped in their scum roles.

For night 2 we probably will make a new list after knowing more after night 1.

What we should hope for is that a lot of reds are on the "waiting" side as that would turn the greens on the swapping side into doomed scumbags that our new friends can tell us about. The other way around gonna be a bit more tough but it will be so sus that they basically paint a big target on their foreheads to be investigated or safety lynched later if they were to fail to swap twice in a row. for example.

 

[Shad]

so from what i understand its not that both of the pair will swap in the same night but that one swap this night and the other swap next night ?

Yeah, one swaps the other waits.

They will swap in the same night, if they both target each other.


Be back in 1 hour.

 

[Copy Panda]

~9 hours left!

Ill update votes shortly!

 

[James Rye]

They will swap in the same night, if they both target each other.


Be back in 1 hour.

If they both swap in the same night they keep their initial roles though. Like that was your question to Farfalla and Panda just some time ago:

@Farfalla @Copy Panda
If 2 town swap with each other, and no other town swap with them that night (no coin toss), do they keep their initial roles? (they swap twice and go back to their original position)?

Answer of Panda:

yes

So no double targeting, one targets the other and the other does nothing but wait for the swap to confirm one another.

 

[Shad]

If they both swap in the same night they keep their initial roles though. Like that was your question to Farfalla and Panda just some time ago:



Answer of Panda:



So no double targeting, one targets the other and the other does nothing but wait for the swap to confirm one another.

I see what you mean, but why wait another night?

If we swap in the same night and both keep their initial role, we know for sure both are town, as mafia can't swap at all, if one of the 2 is mafia, they will swap allegiances which is also a good outcome for town.

 

[GrySun]

so from what i understand its not that both of the pair will swap in the same night but that one swap this night and the other swap next night ?

No. It‘s a cointoss. First I swap with Asako, then Asako swaps with me, all in same night, prio 4.

--- Double Post Merged, Jun 16, 2022, Original Post Date: Jun 16, 2022 ---

Who would you like to lynch instead then? One of the people not liking the pair swap idea like Gaj or Demon?

Idk, my enjoyment of the game is plummeting due to this mechanic. Not what I looked forward to.
If we go with this then yes anyone uncooperative must go, or alternatively someone shady.

--- Double Post Merged, Jun 16, 2022 ---

If they both swap in the same night they keep their initial roles though. Like that was your question to Farfalla and Panda just some time ago:



Answer of Panda:



So no double targeting, one targets the other and the other does nothing but wait for the swap to confirm one another.

You confuse me. I don‘t think we are on the same page.

The pair swap idea is to see on D2: ok these 2 swapped and still have their roles, they are town. These 2 were supposed to swap but they actually did, meaning one of the 2 didn‘t or couldn‘t swap. A mafia is likely among those 2.

What are you and Asako on about with a night delay?

 

[Demonspeed]

Mechanics are there to be exploited. Like with the Yugioh one with the item shop were town was basically given 3 "confirm townies by turning them into cowboys by selling their previous actual townie role" but nooooooo~, no one but me followed that plan and Mafia quickly brought those roles up to avoid having them used against themselves. And I think they won the game back then too.

We could also lynch you today and replace your name on the list with gnut if you want to. You would still have played the game "properly" before we broke it after night 1 and 2.

I don't remember the details but why do you think no one followed that plan? Was it you who proposed it? Almost every game it seems that someone proposes something which will break the game but it never seems to work.

 

[Asako]

honeslty its not that i dont wanna swap
but its because misha haven't appeared yet today so I cant even read her, so I'm worried ( not like I can even read her before)




I wanna change the person that evil choose for me to swap with........
I'm sorry mishaaaaa


also i could be said if there a mason in game but i wanna swap with them