One Piece Power Level Discussion Thread

[goldb]

Ground Rules for the Power Level Discussion Thread
​

As always, please follow the guidelines set by the Forum Rules that apply across the board.

It's important that discussions from a current chapter are spoiler tagged until 24h have passed from an english release.

• For the sake of constructive discussion, where and when possible please quote/ source any information you provide. Particularly when it comes to conversations carried over from other threads.
• Avoid passive agressive posts, sly remarks or baiting/trolling. You can certainly have fun or disagree without it being at someone's expense.
• Only use anime examples that are canon and as means to provide clarity to pages in the manga. Any other anime material is otherwise non-canon and should only be referenced if it can be proved that the mangaka had approved it.
• We will strive to avoid repetitive discussions and any extensive battle topics will be guided to the Davy Back fight to existing threads or new ones can be made there.

As of now these topics are shelved due to repetitiveness or until the manga can present us with material to further discussions:

1. Shanks v Mihawk
2. Hand to hand fighters > Swordsmen
3. Zoro > Luffy
4. Zoro v Sanji
5. Is Smoker a top 30 character?
6. Mihawk's rank within the story
7. Law having CoC currently.
8. Katakuri > Kaido/Luffy/Etc.

If you wish to continue any of these discussion and remove it from the list, you will need to provide manga material as proof. If there's also anything you think we've covered numerous times, let me know and I'll update the list.

This is the only warning there'll be regarding these ground rules, anything no adhering will be removed. So please just check your posts before posting them.

 

[LadyVados]

Where is Kaido and BM? You just assumed they died I suppose.......why lol?

Anyway, Kaido is no1.
BM lands below Luffy

Old Garp at the very least scales to Marineford WB, since they were around same level when they were at their primes. In fact he is stronger, since he isn't sick unlike WB. I'd say he lands just above current Luffy.

Old Sengoku > Kizaru, considering old Rayleigh who was retired and out of shape was matching Kizaru in combat, even tho he was lacking in stamina.
Unlike Rayleigh, Sengoku was active and in shape the whole time, and prime Sengoku was at least as strong as prime Rayleigh based on portrayal.

Akainu and Shanks are interchangeable. IMO he is right behind Kaido as no2
Aokiji lands one position above or below BM

Marco/Law > Kid > Zoro

Why is freaking Yassop above Katauri?

I kinda did yeah.

I don't see Marco that high.

I can understand Kidd and Law > Zoro but personally think he edges them more often than not.

General hype for Shanks' crew.

 

[Nie Li]

Why is freaking Yassop above Katauri?

On Worstgen someone posted this:
"Yasopp shows very powerful observational Haki as he can communicate with Uta's world and Katakuri can barely see his own Haki."

I'm not even 100% sure what this means and I can't watch the movie yet but it seems to imply his CoO is superior to Katakuri at least in one of its forms? I don't know. Not taking that into account I'd personally only put Shanks and Beckman above Katakuri (from the RHP specifically).

 

[grey matter]

I don't see Marco that high.

I can understand Kidd and Law > Zoro but personally think he edges them more often than not.

General hype for Shanks' crew.

Why not? Marco has the most impressive feat amongst the alliance after Luffy.
He basically did to BM an equivalent of what Yamato did to Kaido, hold her back until Scabbards vs Kaido was done (yeah he didn't do as much damage as Yamato, but he came out of it without much damage as well unlike Yamato). Then held off King + Queen solo for a considerable duration of time while being on the offensive in most of the off screen fight that we saw, after expending energy healing up all the samurai and beast pirates.

Kid is a hard counter for Zoro, I think they both are in same tier but Kid mid diffs Zoro due to matchup.
Law is Law, the hax lord loses to nobody in his tier except Marco.

Meh. Yassop is like the 4th strongest in their crew. I can even accept Lucky Roo being maybe on Katakuri level, Yassop is a no.

On Worstgen someone posted this:
"Yasopp shows very powerful observational Haki as he can communicate with Uta's world and Katakuri can barely see his own Haki."

I'm not even 100% sure what this means and I can't watch the movie yet it seems to imply his CoO is superior to Katakuri at least in one of its forms? I don't know. Not taking that into account I'd personally only put Shanks and Beckman above Katakuri (from the RHP specifically).

It very well may be possible that Yassop has better observation haki than Katakuri.
But does he have the stats to compete? Kakaturi was on or above WCI G4 Luffy in combat stats.

Yea same. Beckman is def at the top tier or borderline there, he has the same vibes of Rayleigh, Oden and Zoro. He is the partner type right hand man.
I think Lucky Roo (no3 of the crew) may be King/Katakuri level as well. RHP is known for the very strong crew members.

 

[LadyVados]

Why not? Marco has the most impressive feat amongst the alliance after Luffy.
He basically did to BM an equivalent of what Yamato did to Kaido, hold her back until Scabbards vs Kaido was done (yeah he didn't do as much damage as Yamato, but he came out of it without much damage as well unlike Yamato). Then held off King + Queen solo for a considerable duration of time while being on the offesnvie in most of what we saw, after expending energy healing up all the samurai and beast pirates.

Kid is a hard counter for Zoro, I think they both are in same tier but Kid mid diffs Zoro due to matchup.
Law is Law, the hax lord loses to nobody in his tier except Marco.

Meh. Yassop is like the 4th strongest in their crew. I can even accept Lucky Roo being maybe on Katakuri level, Yassop is a no.



It very well may be possible that Yassop has better observation haki than Katakuri.
But does he have the stats to compete? Kakaturi was on or above WCI G4 Luffy in combat stats.

Yea same. Beckman is def at the top tier or borderline there, he has the same vibes of Rayleigh, Oden and Zoro. He is the partner type right hand man.
I think Lucky Roo (no3 of the crew) may be King/Katakuri level as well. RHP is known for the very strong crew members.

He held BM off more because of his regeneration than anything.

And honestly I think Zoro, Yamato, Kidd or Law could have probably done the same.

I consider him YC1 tier not yc1+ like those 4.

All 4 are in the same tier and comparable but Zoro and Yamato have AdCoC and Law has that hax, he's lacking something special. Maybe I'll swap him with Yamato since there's always the possibility Kaido was holding back a little and Yamato was getting a bit of the new character, flavour of the week effect. I don't see him above Zoro in terms of power tho (whether he can beat him because of match-up is a different story).

 

[Nie Li]

It very well may be possible that Yassop has better observation haki than Katakuri.
But does he have the stats to compete? Kakaturi was on or above WCI G4 Luffy in combat stats.

Yea same. Beckman is def at the top tier or borderline there, he has the same vibes of Rayleigh, Oden and Zoro. He is the partner type right hand man.
I think Lucky Roo (no3 of the crew) may be King/Katakuri level as well. RHP is known for the very strong crew members.

Good point. I agree that Katakuri probably is above him even if Yasopp were to have superior CoO. CoO isn't everything, after all, despite what many Katakuri and Luffy fans think. Yasopp probably shines way more as a sniper than in a proper close or mid ranged fight.

I can see Yasopp being somewhat stronger than Izou in a proper fight, which is actually saying a lot because Izou was a pleasant surprise this arc.

 

[grey matter]

He held BM off more because of his regeneration than anything.

And honestly I think Zoro, Yamato, Kidd or Law could have probably done the same.

I consider him YC1 tier not yc1+ like those 4.

All 4 are in the same tier and comparable but Zoro and Yamato have AdCoC and Law has that hax, he's lacking something special. Maybe I'll swap him with Yamato since there's always the possibility Kaido was holding back a little and Yamato was getting a bit of the new character, flavour of the week effect. I don't see him above Zoro in terms of power tho (whether he can beat him because of match-up is a different story).

We don't know that, because the entire thing was off screen.
And, if all he did was get pummeled, then he would've run out of gas even before getting to King/Queen. His regen isn't infinite, he uses stamina to heal corresponding to the damage he takes.

He held of King and Queen also, not by primarily getting pummeled and regenerating. And this is after wasting a considerable chunk of his stamina on healing the entire floor, on top of fighting BM
He was more on the offensive against King and Queen, than vice verse. Based on whatever we saw of that fight. After knowing how fast King is now, this paints Marco's combat stats in an entirely different light

I would assume his abovementioned feats, as well as clashing with admirals (again not just regen, he outright matched an attack from Akainu intended to kill Luffy), plus hype from Vivre cards, qualify him as YC1+ for sure.

Kid has no hax or advanced haki, yet pretty much everyone accepts he is in the "YC1+"
So why not Marco, who has even better feats?

Good point. I agree that Katakuri probably is above him even if Yasopp were to have superior CoO. CoO isn't everything, after all (despite what many Katakuri and Luffy fans think. Yasopp probably shines way more as a sniper than in a proper close or mid ranged fight.

I can see Yasopp being somewhat stronger than Izou in a proper fight, which is actually saying a lot because Izou was a pleasant surprise this arc.

Yea, Yassop is def >> Izo based on hype.

Izo himself was strong, he took on two CP0 agents in a 1v2 and took down one of them. CP0 agents each being powerful enough to mid diff Drake, arguably the strongest Tobiroppo.
Izo has all the feats needed to place him solidly at Jack/Cat/Dog level

This makes Yassop very strong. Strong enough to put him at least in "YC2" tier for sure. YC1 tier is an entirely different beast, Yassop would need to prove himself worthy of that.

 

[catagon87]

Thanks. I hate it.

--- Double Post Merged, Aug 10, 2022, Original Post Date: Aug 10, 2022 ---

My current top 30 (not including Imu because we don't know enough about him)-

1. Mihawk
2. Shanks
3. BB
4. Luffy
5. Dragon
6. Akainu
7. Aokiji
8. Beckman
9. Kizaru
10. Fujitora
11. Green Bull
12. Old Garp
13. Old Sengoku
14. Old Rayleigh
15. Zoro
16. Law
17. Yamato
18. Kidd
19. Sabo
20. Shilliew
21. King
22. Marco
23. Momousagi
24. Tokikake
25. Lucky Roo
26. Yasopp
27. Katakuri
28. Jozu
29. Vista
30. Sanji

I think it's a pretty reasonable list

Weevil should be on there somewhere, IMO. Kizaru compared him to prime Whitebeard, and he made a hobby of outright destroying Whitebeard affiliated crews. Not just their captain, but the crew. Seemingly did this without a scratch on him as well.

--- Double Post Merged, Aug 10, 2022 ---

Yea, Yassop is def >> Izo based on hype.

Izo himself was strong, he took on two CP0 agents in a 1v2 and took down one of them. CP0 agents each being powerful enough to mid diff Drake, arguably the strongest Tobiroppo.
Izo has all the feats needed to place him solidly at Jack/Cat/Dog level

This makes Yassop very strong. Strong enough to put him at least in "YC2" tier for sure. YC1 tier is an entirely different beast, Yassop would need to prove himself worthy of that.

CP0 is underrated, too, IMO. I feel like it's commonly forgotten that Blackbeard decided to run from Baltigo when CP0 showed up. Not in the face of Dragon and the RA (who the commanders fought against the Admirals in Marineford).

 

[grey matter]

Weevil should be on there somewhere, IMO. Kizaru compared him to prime Whitebeard, and he made a hobby of outright destroying Whitebeard affiliated crews. Not just their captain, but the crew. Seemingly did this without a scratch on him as well.

--- Double Post Merged, Aug 10, 2022 ---

CP0 is underrated, too, IMO. I feel like it's commonly forgotten that Blackbeard decided to run from Baltigo when CP0 showed up. Not in the face of Dragon and the RA (who the commanders fought against the Admirals in Marineford).

Weevil should be at least above everyone who isn't an admiral or a Yonko (plus others hyped on that level such as Garp, Mihawk, Rayleigh and Sengoku)


CP0 is criminally underrated, yes. And for what? The CP0 boss giving up against Kaido without any resistance? Yeah no shit, he knows he stands no chance against an enraged Kaido lmao.
2 CP0 agents managed to comfortably (mid diff?) deal with Drake + Apoo + two upper numbers. They have all the hype and feats needed at least for a low commander level fighter, which is pretty strong. The CP0 boss even came out of a backstab from Drake, and then destroyed him lmao.
We even have the more hyped CP0 agents left, such as Lucci, Haku and Stucie. Rob Lucci is supposedly Sabo level, we know how strong Sabo is.

 

[JStackz26]

Anyone consider Big Mom might be a lot stronger.
She split the sky with Kaido fought him for multiple days
And the Law & Kidd thing well did anyone consider this:
Zeus, Prometheus, Napoleon and Hera come from her own soul meaning that she has to weaken herself to create them.
So when Hera was supposed to consume Zeus that power was maybe meant to come back to Big Mom or make Hera stronger. Instead that didn't happen so you got a weaker Big Mom and/or Hera. Meaning a weaker Big Mom vs Kidd and Law.

Also would it be surprising if Big Mom could make a Magma Homie? Or Prometheus merges with the Magma.

 

[Crimson Ice]

This movie is shaking my damn Admirals agenda. Kizaru damn near gets blitzed in the clip I saw.

 

[john ellis]

@grey matter with respect, law and kidds feats of defeating a yonko eclipses any feat marco has done. He has been shown not be be able to defeat a yonko on multiples tries. It's possible 2 marco's defeat a yonko but given how marco has failed to even damage a yonko i doubt it. Like Heck even zoro's feats are possibly more impressive then marco's he managed to awaken aCoC and cut kaido deeply. Defeat king who marco struggled against even in a 1 vs 1. He was tied sure but zoro did defeat king after battling 2 yonko's and getting a wonder drug.

 

[XXGenesis]

I watched the Oda care about Power Scailing Video…Mr.Morj Totally missed the point….It’s how do the characters within these tiers match up against each other.

Also I’ve come to realize the abundance of characters that we have within these tiers.

20 or so Yonkou/Admiral lv Characters
20+ Commander lv Characters…
It’s a lot to build a hierarchy from as the story is ongoing.

 

[grey matter]

@grey matter with respect, law and kidds feats of defeating a yonko eclipses any feat marco has done. He has been shown not be be able to defeat a yonko on multiples tries. It's possible 2 marco's defeat a yonko but given how marco has failed to even damage a yonko i doubt it. Like Heck even zoro's feats are possibly more impressive then marco's he managed to awaken aCoC and cut kaido deeply. Defeat king who marco struggled against even in a 1 vs 1. He was tied sure but zoro did defeat king after battling 2 yonko's and getting a wonder drug.

Yeah, I don't think Marco is doing much damage to Yonkos, relative to what Law or Zoro. But when I rank characters, I put them generally at that level.
I think Marco can defeat everyone else I consider in "YC!+" tier, which is Law, Zoro, Yamato and Kid

Marco failed against Yonkos 1v1, but it was.......in 1v1 like you yourself said.
Nobody in that list is defeating or even pushing a Yonko in a 1v1.

Marco has demonstrably replicated an equivalent of what Yamato did, against BM. He didn't do much damage, but didn't take much damage either.
What is impressive is, after doing this, he went onto heal the entire floor and fight a 1v2 soon after

Marco didn't struggle against King in a 1v1 lol, what are you saying?
Marco was shown to be far superior to King in combat speed, and was mostly kicking him around while dealing with Queen also.

I watched the Oda care about Power Scailing Video…Mr.Morj Totally missed the point….It’s how do the characters within these tiers match up against each other.

Also I’ve come to realize the abundance of characters that we have within these tiers.

20 or so Yonkou/Admiral lv Characters
20+ Commander lv Characters…
It’s a lot to build a hierarchy from as the story is ongoing.

I've watched it too, I think Morj was on point there.

The hierarchy between high tiers (yonko/admirals) and commanders is well established. So, there is a hierarchy. Without this hierarchy, we wouldn't feel "hype"

Of course Oda doesn't explicitly mention certain characters within a hierarchy is stronger than the others. It's left quite vague while giving us hints about certain characters special even within a hierarchy.
Within Yonkos for example, WB was treated special, and then Kaido after WB died. There are subtle hints and narratives.

 

[XXGenesis]

@grey matter

No he wasn’t on point. I didn’t post my full thought on this point. So let me fully elaborate. Mr.Morj made a very very safe video about how the Ranks, Positions & Titles of the One Piece World equate to its Power scailing. That was boring and a very patronizing video if you will, a casual OP fan understand this much.

In terms of Power Scailing for OP, the video wasn’t informative, on the real discussions that are held within the fandom…...

Ex. What Tier are ppl like Law/Kidd/Yamato if they are weaker than Yonkou but stronger than 1st Commanders…Yonkou/Admiral are same Tier but Yonkou seem be higher on the tier.


You say “Of Course Oda doesn’t…” like that’s a good thing….Lol….it’s his method of provoking conversation and attention about his story in that aspect…At this point in the manga it’s become a hindrance…Which I thought Mr. Morj was going to address; That power Scailing can be useless within tiers as it’s ambiguous to who would win, at full strength? Without interference? Without protecting someone..etc etc Whatever Caveat Oda likes to throw in his fights.

The statement “Oda doesn’t care about power scailing” More than likely stems from someone’s interpretation of Wano arc…Where Oda wasn’t always consistent and decides to offer ambiguous context…….

 

[LadyVados]

Weevil should be on there somewhere, IMO. Kizaru compared him to prime Whitebeard, and he made a hobby of outright destroying Whitebeard affiliated crews. Not just their captain, but the crew. Seemingly did this without a scratch on him as well.

Completely forgot about that guy. Yeah, he's definitely up there somewhere.

 

[shailks]

Completely forgot about that guy. Yeah, he's definitely up there somewhere.

But then how would you be able to keep Sanji at 30 and still remain consistent (unless he powered up in last two days).

 

[HereNThere]

Regarding the Morj video, it looks like he was just pushing back against the idea that Oda doesn't care about power scaling in the series and nothing else. I don't think the video was ever supposed to go deep into the weeds of the vagueness of where certain characters lie (Kidd, Law, etc) or the general feats vs portrayal topics that are the crux of the more recent debates.

 

[Rein Avara]

Spoiler: Top 30 List (Off the Dome)

1. Shanks
2. Kaido
3. Akainu
4. Blackbeard
5. Big Mom
6. Aokiji
7. Mihawk
8. Luffy
9. Kizaru
10. Dragon (For Now)
11. Fujitora
12. Ben Beckman / Shiryuu
13. Sabo
14. Greenbull
15. Garp, Sengoku, Rayleigh
16. Law
17. Kidd
18. Yamato / Zoro / Marco
19. Sanji
20. Katakuri
21. King
22. Jimbei
23. Killer
24. Queen
25. Rob Lucci
26. Magellan
27. Cracker
28. Doffy
29. Smoothie
30. Jack

No. 11 to 14 are all really close in my eyes it can go either way, the same goes with 1-8 (though I do think Luffy has a higher chance of losing some of those fights than the rest of the fighters, just because of how he fights and the drawbacks of his DF).

I don't think we are at the stage where we can talk about the rest of Shank's crew yet, because we really don't have much to go off of aside from the little bit of detail we got from Volume 4 Billion. This is why aside from Shanks and Benny the rest are not on here.

 

[catagon87]

Spoiler: Top 30 List (Off the Dome)

1. Shanks
2. Kaido
3. Akainu
4. Blackbeard
5. Big Mom
6. Aokiji
7. Mihawk
8. Luffy
9. Kizaru
10. Dragon (For Now)
11. Fujitora
12. Ben Beckman / Shiryuu
13. Sabo
14. Greenbull
15. Garp, Sengoku, Rayleigh
16. Law
17. Kidd
18. Yamato / Zoro / Marco
19. Sanji
20. Katakuri
21. King
22. Jimbei
23. Killer
24. Queen
25. Rob Lucci
26. Magellan
27. Cracker
28. Doffy
29. Smoothie
30. Jack

No. 11 to 14 are all really close in my eyes it can go either way, the same goes with 1-8 (though I do think Luffy has a higher chance of losing some of those fights than the rest of the fighters, just because of how he fights and the drawbacks of his DF).

I don't think we are at the stage where we can talk about the rest of Shank's crew yet, because we really don't have much to go off of aside from the little bit of detail we got from Volume 4 Billion. This is why aside from Shanks and Benny the rest are not on here.

In general this list is a bit flawed in that there are simply too many strong characters to compare. For instance, Kuma belongs on it. He has one of the most OP abilities in the entire series. Repelling pain? Jesus fuck-nuggets. Imagine having him on your side. You don't need Chopper even at that point. You get Kuma to go repel all of Zoro's accumulated pain and suffering out of his body, then flick it over to King or Queen.

I think one thing is that Magellan is definitely higher on the list, and possibly one of the most underrated antagonists in the entire series. I mean, I'm sure Rob Lucci had some kinda montage in the time-skip, but to place him higher than Magellan? Magellan is practically invincible against anyone who can't nullify his ability (Blackbeard). Magellan is tasked with one of the most important jobs in the entire series: Keeping prisoners in prison. He only failed at this due to some miscalculations on the WG and his own part (releasing Shiryuu for him, and trusting Blackbeard for the WG).

He also wiped out the entire Blackbeard Pirates in a single go:

The entire prison escape crew which included Crocodile, Jinbei, Ivankov, and Luffy could do nothing but run from him. I suspect it took a sneak attack from Blackbeard, nullifying his ability, in tandem with attacks from the level 6 prisoners he set free, to defeat Magellan.

That leads me to another character who needs to be on that list: Ivankov. Ivankov easily kicked Sanji's ass without a scratch on 'em. He/she's the only person other than Mr. 3 who had a defense against Magellan's Hydra. Their ability was capable of letting Luffy live through Magellan's poison. Iva's abilities let him fight PX0/Kuma.



.....

Actually when I think about it the OG Revolutionary Army, when together, is probably nearly invincible. Think of the capabilities they have.
Belo Betty can rally a flag to increase the abilities of her allies.
Iva has access to a plethora of hormones that range from changing gender to adrenaline.
Kuma can repel pain and suffering, and blip people across the globe.
Dragon seemingly can control weather.
The crow guy is basically a bird-army, and an excellent spy.


If anyone had to face down the original team, they'd probably get their ass kicked. Hell, the only one that isn't available anymore is Kuma.

 

[Rein Avara]

In general this list is a bit flawed in that there are simply too many strong characters to compare. For instance, Kuma belongs on it. He has one of the most OP abilities in the entire series. Repelling pain? Jesus fuck-nuggets. Imagine having him on your side. You don't need Chopper even at that point. You get Kuma to go repel all of Zoro's accumulated pain and suffering out of his body, then flick it over to King or Queen.

Kuma would be on my list if he were functioning of his own free mind. But I do agree with you, he does have one more of more broken DFs in the series, (Gura Gura, Ope, Ope, and the Nikyu Nikyu are in my Top 3).

I think one thing is that Magellan is definitely higher on the list, and possibly one of the most underrated antagonists in the entire series. I mean, I'm sure Rob Lucci had some kinda montage in the time-skip, but to place him higher than Magellan? Magellan is practically invincible against anyone who can't nullify his ability (Blackbeard). Magellan is tasked with one of the most important jobs in the entire series: Keeping prisoners in prison. He only failed at this due to some miscalculations on the WG and his own part (releasing Shiryuu for him, and trusting Blackbeard for the WG).

Yeahhh as I posted I thought Magellan should be much higher but I'll just leave him there for now. Like I said in the spoiler this was just off my head, when I restructure it later it should make a lot more sense.

Ivankov is an interesting one though, I've never seen them in anyone's top 30.

I do like the current characters in my Top 30 just needs a little bit of restructuring.

Feel free to post yours, I'm curious as to who you'll have where.