One Piece Power Level Discussion Thread

[goldb]

Ground Rules for the Power Level Discussion Thread
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As always, please follow the guidelines set by the Forum Rules that apply across the board.

It's important that discussions from a current chapter are spoiler tagged until 24h have passed from an english release.

• For the sake of constructive discussion, where and when possible please quote/ source any information you provide. Particularly when it comes to conversations carried over from other threads.
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• We will strive to avoid repetitive discussions and any extensive battle topics will be guided to the Davy Back fight to existing threads or new ones can be made there.

As of now these topics are shelved due to repetitiveness or until the manga can present us with material to further discussions:

1. Shanks v Mihawk
2. Hand to hand fighters > Swordsmen
3. Zoro > Luffy
4. Zoro v Sanji
5. Is Smoker a top 30 character?
6. Mihawk's rank within the story
7. Law having CoC currently.
8. Katakuri > Kaido/Luffy/Etc.

If you wish to continue any of these discussion and remove it from the list, you will need to provide manga material as proof. If there's also anything you think we've covered numerous times, let me know and I'll update the list.

This is the only warning there'll be regarding these ground rules, anything no adhering will be removed. So please just check your posts before posting them.

 

[Pirate Queen]

Lol what is tobiroppo tier?

Veteran level?

 

[Lord Traffy Law]

Lol what is tobiroppo tier?

I just consider them to be from doffy top executives level ( vergo pics diamanté trebol ) to YC4 level ( snack) in strength

 

[albertwv]

There's a wide range among these ranks.

There's an abyss between the minimum requirement to become a Vice-Admiral or an Admiral... most Vice-Admirals could be defeated by the Supernovas on Sabaody. Some like Tsuru or Momousagi are stronger, but their exact strength is unknown.

Some of the Tobiroppo wanted to challenge the All-Stars. I think Who's Who would come close to the All-Stars. The likes of Sasaki or Black Maria I think are around the strength of Diamante, Trebol, etc.

Not all Yonkos have executives. Whitebeard had 16 commanders. They seem to range from the level of All-Stars to Tobiroppo...

Yes it is a wide range. I disagree with your statement about the Vice Admirals though. I explained about Garp, Tsuru, and the admiral candidates. I do not rank them in the typical VA range.

I totally disagree with Pre TS Supernovas > most VAs. We know that to be a VA you have to have at least a type of Haki, usually CoA. It was stated that all VAs and above have Haki. The Pre TS Supernovas to include Luffy and Zolo would lose to a high VA maybe even to low VA like Maynard (maybe). One thing is because the Supernovas didn't have CoA or CoO. Luffy although injured and exhausted during MF, was quickly defeated by 2 high VAs. I wouldn't count it against Luffy because it wasn't an actual fight but it showed how much different in strength they were.
I think it was until post TS that the Supernovas were able to match and defeat various HIGH VAs. As we saw how Sanji struggled with Vergo. I don't think Post TS G2 Luffy would had struggled so much with Vergo and even less struggled versus Smoker in his real body.

The Flying 6 are a mixture of mid to high VAs to surpassing the VAs. Both WW and Sasaki wanted to challenge the All Stars but as we saw with their fights it would have ended with Queen decimating them like he did Drake, although that was an ambush (off screened). The rest of the F6 would be above Pica, Trebol or Diamante. Besides Vergo and Pica (due to his DF), the Donquixote Commanders were a joke and were probably low VA level. We saw how a Wano Sanji dealt with Page One, this Sanji would have mid diff'd Vergo as by then Sanji had gotten stronger.

Finally, when I meant WBP Division Commanders I was excluding the Top 5. My bad for not making it clear. WB Commander 6-16 were probably low-high VA level, it is hard to gauge without much to go off by besides Izo in Onigashima.

 

[Fox666]

I totally disagree with Pre TS Supernovas > most VAs. We know that to be a VA you have to have at least a type of Haki, usually CoA. It was stated that all VAs and above have Haki. The Pre TS Supernovas to include Luffy and Zolo would lose to a high VA maybe even to low VA like Maynard (maybe). One thing is because the Supernovas didn't have CoA or CoO. Luffy although injured and exhausted during MF, was quickly defeated by 2 high VAs. I wouldn't count it against Luffy because it wasn't an actual fight but it showed how much different in strength they were.
I think it was until post TS that the Supernovas were able to match and defeat various HIGH VAs. As we saw how Sanji struggled with Vergo. I don't think Post TS G2 Luffy would had struggled so much with Vergo and even less struggled versus Smoker in his real body.

Haki is just a skill.

The Shandians, CP9 or Kuja could use Haki. But Luffy surpassed them all pre-timeskip.

The Vice-Admirals in the Buster Call praised Rob Lucci. Maynard was trashed by Bartolomeo. That tells me thet most of them are below a Supernova.

And if we list every combat the Vice-Admirals were involved, it's shameful.

The Flying 6 are a mixture of mid to high VAs to surpassing the VAs. Both WW and Sasaki wanted to challenge the All Stars but as we saw with their fights it would have ended with Queen decimating them like he did Drake, although that was an ambush (off screened). The rest of the F6 would be above Pica, Trebol or Diamante. Besides Vergo and Pica (due to his DF), the Donquixote Commanders were a joke and were probably low VA level. We saw how a Wano Sanji dealt with Page One, this Sanji would have mid diff'd Vergo as by then Sanji had gotten stronger.

Doflamingo executives were not weak. It's just that Zoro or Kyros were stronger than them.

 

[M3J]

So many tiers, it's unnecessary. I think I said this before, but it doesn't make sense to do that when haki, devil fruit, and whatnot come into play. It's not like DBZ. I mean, someone like Luffy lost to Perona or would lose to Perona just because of her fruit ability, while Usopp won because of the kind of person he is. All it takes for Sugar to beat someone like Jinbei would be a mere touch as well, but she lost to Usopp without taking a hit just by being scared.

 

[albertwv]

Haki is just a skill.

The Shandians, CP9 or Kuja could use Haki. But Luffy surpassed them all pre-timeskip.

The Vice-Admirals in the Buster Call praised Rob Lucci. Maynard was trashed by Bartolomeo. That tells me thet most of them are below a Supernova.

And if we list every combat the Vice-Admirals were involved, it's shameful.


Doflamingo executives were not weak. It's just that Zoro or Kyros were stronger than them.

Although Haki may just be a skill. it is also a powerup. Especially CoA, because the attacks cause more damage. Just because the VAs may have praised Lucci doesn't mean they are weaker than him or at his level. Are you proposing that Vergo was weaker than Pre TS Supernova? Shit, even Post TS Law was having trouble in 1v1 melee fight.

Maynard is the exception, since he's still a rookie VA, as VA Bastille called him inexperienced. VA Smoker was a good example of a low-mid VA level. He showed the difference in between a rookie VA and a senior VA, also show casing the haki is a powerful skill that can make the difference in winning.

The Doffy pirates were weak. Pica outside of his DF is weak compared to a veteran of the NW. I don't think Oven would have had a hard time against Pica outside his DF. Diamante was a joke and so was Trebol. I don't think Kyros was all that powerful actually.
Vergo was the only one who stood out among the top executives.

 

[LadyVados]

That I think makes much more sense. However, seeing comments like the below makes me think there are people who genuinely think Jinbei would lose underwater to YC level fighters.

I do not consider current Zoro to be a commander tier.

 

[XXGenesis]

There’s a lot of terms we throw around that everyone does not define the same. Weak?? Low/mid/high diff?

Doffy’s Crew wasn’t weak. Which crew are you comparing them too?? Doffy had some solid fighters under his belt. Quite a few DF abilities.

There will always be discord. If the community cannot agree to agree on anything and just wants to extrapolate on their opinions. Which leaves us with pointless conversations. I think it’s sad One Piece community has not found common ground on so many things. We find things to disagree about more than finding valid points in opinions we agree with.

 

[Lord Traffy Law]

I also disagree on PK level being higher than yonkou
Maybe 4 strongest ever , prime WB rocks and garp and roger might be able to defeat the yonkou
But the yonkou in their prime ( referring to the old set ) throwing in shiki too
They’re not stronger by the degree that they’re on another level
theyre all on the same level

 

[Crimson Ice]

There's no irony in there. The post you're quoting already makes clear why the two "clashes" aren't at all comparable.

No, it doesn't, that's what I was disputing.

 

[Nie Li]

No, it doesn't, that's what I was disputing.

You didn't actually dispute anyhing from my post.

 

[Crimson Ice]

You didn't actually dispute anyhing from my post.

Thought you were addressing me and Vados as that is literally the same post.

 

[Nie Li]

Thought you were addressing me and Vados as that is literally the same post.

I don't even know what you're saying here. I'm only addressing you because you quoted me, talking about how "ironic" something is.

I argued that both encounters aren't comparable, and they are not, if you want to counterargument that they are, feel free to go ahead and do so. Otherwise you aren't really disputing my opinion if the irony you point out is already addressed in my post. I could have just quoted myself as an answer to that comment.

 

[Fox666]

Although Haki may just be a skill. it is also a powerup. Especially CoA, because the attacks cause more damage. Just because the VAs may have praised Lucci doesn't mean they are weaker than him or at his level. Are you proposing that Vergo was weaker than Pre TS Supernova? Shit, even Post TS Law was having trouble in 1v1 melee fight.

Maynard is the exception, since he's still a rookie VA, as VA Bastille called him inexperienced. VA Smoker was a good example of a low-mid VA level. He showed the difference in between a rookie VA and a senior VA, also show casing the haki is a powerful skill that can make the difference in winning.

Bastille called Maynard a rookie... only to get one-shot to Sabo. I would say the lifes of Maynard are the rule, while Smoker or Vergo are exceptions.

The Doffy pirates were weak. Pica outside of his DF is weak compared to a veteran of the NW. I don't think Oven would have had a hard time against Pica outside his DF. Diamante was a joke and so was Trebol. I don't think Kyros was all that powerful actually.
Vergo was the only one who stood out among the top executives.

I don't think the executives were weak. Pica fought Zoro for a while with only his sword.

 

[catagon87]

Although Haki may just be a skill. it is also a powerup. Especially CoA, because the attacks cause more damage. Just because the VAs may have praised Lucci doesn't mean they are weaker than him or at his level. Are you proposing that Vergo was weaker than Pre TS Supernova? Shit, even Post TS Law was having trouble in 1v1 melee fight.

The second Law got his heart back, he annihilated Vergo in a single blow. I don't think the fight really counts as a legitimate show of strength up to that point. Vergo was strong, but he was also fighting at an extreme advantage.

 

[kkck]

It's probably not fair to call doflamingo's executives weak though odds are that the lot of them wouldn't hold a candle to people who could be executives to yonko. Even if doflamingo's strongest executives make the cut they would still be easily on the lowest end of strength. Doflamingo himself probably wouldn't even make it to sweet commander or calamity even if he would be ahead of the curve compared to the rest of the crew (though the topo robi give the vibe that doflamingo would at worst have mid difficulty against any of them).

As for the VAs... I think the issue with them is that they are absurdly numerous. There's no real cap to how many there are. And as a numerous force it makes sense they have significant power gaps between them. They can't all be garps. In any case, at least based on context it's pretty evident that VAs are a massively powerful force in general. Even without garp you have momousage and chaton who were considered for the admiral promotion. Even if they aren't comparable to the current admirals odds are they are way ahead of the curve. There's no reason for the VAs featured at marineford to not be quite strong in general, probably actual answers to yonko executives (though not necessarily calamities or sweet commanders). As far as I can tell VAs are the ones that do the brunt of the legwork for the marines across the GL. We have seen them manage marine bases, lead expeditions, spearhead buster calls, intelligence... The admirals are obviously more powerful but when shit hits the fan the VAs make up the bulk of the marine's forces.

 

[shailks]

I don’t know about that. Doffy vs queen/Jack — i can see doffy win. Let’s not forget it was 2 vs 1 with Doffy. Law contributed to the fight as well. Even in the cards game nomenclature, Joker is supposed to be a trump/wild card.

Not to mention the “I am leaving because I don’t feel like fighting you” vibe he gave to Kuzan, while he had smoker pinned to the ground.

 

[kkck]

I don’t know about that. Doffy vs queen/Jack — i can see doffy win. Let’s not forget it was 2 vs 1 with Doffy. Law contributed to the fight as well. Even in the cards game nomenclature, Joker is supposed to be a trump/wild card.

To me the issue is how doflamingo and cracker performed against G4 luffy. Cracker simply performed better than doflamingo did. Doflamingo could not take G4 luffy in CqC. Most of his attacks bounced right off. Meanwhile cracker was more than capable of engaging with G4 in CqC. And even after nami basically shot down his ability via moisture he continued to fight. it's fair to note that during the dressrosa arc doflamingo was stronger than luffy however luffy could at least put up a fight. Without nami rendering cracker's ability useless luffy would have been low diffed by cracker.

 

[shailks]

Cracker simply performed better than doflamingo did.

Agreed, that fight was a pain for Luffy, but I think it was more a bad matchup. Cracker was more of a mid range fighter with his biscuit soldiers while Luffy is primarily a melee type fighter with only slightly higher stats back then. Cracker for instance couldn’t handle g4 attacks, but luffy couldn’t reach him as he wasn’t fast enough to breach the almost infinite supply of biscuit soldiers, not without Nami’s help. The whole fight also served as comic relief when Luffy started eating the soldiers, lol.

I don’t know if we can judge doffy vs cracker from that. What could cracker do if doffy does a bird cage around him for instance? His soldiers certainly won’t be able to break free and not sure Cracker could either.

 

[kkck]

Agreed, that fight was a pain for Luffy, but I think it was more a bad matchup. Cracker was more of a mid range fighter with his biscuit soldiers while Luffy is primarily a melee type fighter with only slightly higher stats back then. Cracker for instance couldn’t handle g4 attacks, but luffy couldn’t reach him as he wasn’t fast enough to breach the almost infinite supply of biscuit soldiers, not without Nami’s help. The whole fight also served as comic relief when Luffy started eating the soldiers, lol.

I don’t know if we can judge doffy vs cracker from that. What could cracker do if doffy does a bird cage around him for instance? His soldiers certainly won’t be able to break free and not sure Cracker could either.

2 points

1.- Luffy is a melee fighter but he does have considerable range. Even during FI arc his attacks covered enough ground to destroy noah. Luffy's reach is potentially several hundred meters.
2.- Cracker repeatedly engaged luffy in CqC. As in, he lunged at him several times to attack with his sword which we even saw forcing luffy back. Considering cracker appears to be a glass canon this is quite incredible. As the implication is that even at this range and without any soldiers between them luffy could not simply finish cracker off.