Question Donquixote Pirates power

[weixiaobao]

If Vergo is 100, what would the rest of the donquixote pirates and associates be?

Here what I got so far from reddit and other forum. I will edit the chart with more answers. So leave your answer below.

			AR	PER	Sold	TP7	STR	VNM
525​	Doflamingo				275	1000		300
100​	Vergo		100	100	100	100	100	100
92​	Pica		95	100	98	90	95	75
74​	Diamante		75	90	48	80	75	75
69​	Trebol		80	80	50	50	80	75
55​	Gladius		60	70	45	40		60
55​	Senor Pink		65	75	33	40		60
53​	Lao G		55	70	43	40		55
46​	Baby 5		50	70	23	40		45
43​	Machvise		50	60	25	35		45
40​	Buffalo		50	60	15	30		45
38​	Giolla		45	50	18	35		40
29​	Sugar		10	50	40	35		10
38​	Monet				35	40
33​	Dellinger				30	35
90​	Caesar Clown					90
70​	Corazon					70
30​	Punk Hazard Dragons					30
25​	Viola					25
25​	Brownbeard					25
25​	Yeti Cool Bros					25

 

[kkck]

I wouldn't put pica as inferior to vergo. We saw how problematic pica's ability was and nothing we saw suggests vergo has anything in his arsenal that would allow him a win against that. It's not an easy fight but landing hits on pica is simply difficult.

 

[Nie Li]

I'm sorry but I don't understand the abbreviations.

 

[Fox666]

I wouldn't put pica as inferior to vergo. We saw how problematic pica's ability was and nothing we saw suggests vergo has anything in his arsenal that would allow him a win against that. It's not an easy fight but landing hits on pica is simply difficult.

I think that would be underestimating the level of destruction that characters on that level are capable of

If it serves of any reference, Vergo was defeated by an attack that would easily be capable of cutting Pica's giant statue in half

 

[grey matter]

Doflamingo is low commander level.

Vergo, Lao G and Pica are executive/Tobiroppo level.
For me, these three are the top 3.
Don't care for Trebol and Diamante, they didn't impress me even though they had higher rank than Lao G, who should be relative to pre G4 Luffy

 

[kkck]

I think that would be underestimating the level of destruction that characters on that level are capable of

If it serves of any reference, Vergo was defeated by an attack that would easily be capable of cutting Pica's giant statue in half

Yeah, but in that light law has a pretty adequate skillset for dealing with someone like vergo. Significant range, perhaps cutting with his ability is easier than a regular cut (otherwise it's kinda worthless in combat), has specific abilities which can bypass defenses... The most range vergo exhibited was blowing through his bamboo cane. That said, it is reasonable to assume vergo has range simply due to being as strong as he was but that's a different thing from it being enough to deal with a literal mountain. Even the attack zoro used against pica to corner him was among his stronger techniques. Which I would argue shows that at that tier or lower these type of attacks still require significant effort. Maybe if vergo's observation haki was accurate enough to pinpoint pica's location he'd have a path forward but the manga neither confirms or denies that.

 

[Nie Li]

Doflamingo is low commander level.

Vergo, Lao G and Pica are executive/Tobiroppo level.
For me, these three are the top 3.
Don't care for Trebol and Diamante, they didn't impress me even though they had higher rank than Lao G, who should be relative to pre G4 Luffy

In my opinion Diamante wasn't really weak. Other than his lame DF tricks, he did make a decent long-range slash during the fight, and was a long standing winner at the Colosseum. I think he was just unlucky to face Kyros, and that Kyros is underrated.

I wish we could have seen a bit of two-legged Kyros. I hope if he ever appears on-panel again he's gotten a prosthetic.

 

[kkck]

The issue remains what you compare them to. Doflamingo's executives and crew made for an overall powerful new world crew. In the gran scheme of things they were probably stronger than most new world crews. And if at the time they had gone toe to toe with the strawhats they would have come out on top. Matchups would look kinda like this (assuming some relative fairness tier wise at the dresrosa time):

Luffy vs doflamingo (doflamingo win, luffy needed help to win)
Zoro vs pica (zoro win)
Sanji vs diamante (sanji win, maybe?)
franky vs trebol (trebol win, franky had trouble against sr pink)
Robin vs sr pink (robin win, probably)
Brook vs lao g (lao g win)
Ussop vs deringer (deringer win)
nami vs gladius (gladius win)
chopper vs sugar (sugar win)

And that still leaves buffalo, baby 5, machvise and giola untouched, who are still decent enough fighters with dangerous abilities.

So.... doflamingo's crew is nothing to scoff at. Doflamingo is an awakening user who is still a fearsome pirate in any context. But what made a yonko crew terrifying is basically that a pirate like doflamingo is probably about a middle of the pack executive within a yonko crew. It's extremely likely that doflamingo doesn't win against any calamity or sweet commander or other comparable fighters.

 

[Fox666]

Doflamingo is low commander level.

Vergo, Lao G and Pica are executive/Tobiroppo level.
For me, these three are the top 3.
Don't care for Trebol and Diamante, they didn't impress me even though they had higher rank than Lao G, who should be relative to pre G4 Luffy

I think the series made it clear that Trebol, Pica and Diamante are equals

I don't think Lao G is supposed to be very strong... he defeated Chinjao, but Chinjao said he couldn't fight because of his sickness

 

[Nie Li]

I think the series made it clear that Trebol, Pica and Diamante are equals

I don't think Lao G is supposed to be very strong... he defeated Chinjao, but Chinjao said he couldn't fight because of his sickness

They were equals in standing, but I don't think they were equals in a fight. Pica has the most destructive capabilities, and Diamante only has a chance against him if Pica isn't allowed to turn Dressrosa into a rocky mecha (or if they fight somewhere that's not built on rocks like Dressrosa is). Trebol probably had some set of skills but as far as I remember he was by far the most underwhelming of the three, with no particular trick up his sleeve other than faking being a logia.

 

[McNuss]

They were equals in standing, but I don't think they were equals in a fight. Pica has the most destructive capabilities, and Diamante only has a chance against him if Pica isn't allowed to turn Dressrosa into a rocky mecha (or if they fight somewhere that's not built on rocks like Dressrosa is). Trebol probably had some set of skills but as far as I remember he was by far the most underwhelming of the three, with no particular trick up his sleeve other than faking being a logia.

Trebol outclasses Diamante in feats. You can maybe discount it on the Diamante fight being all that emotional drama (I did in my tierlist since Diamante is the head of the fighters), but I don't think anything Diamante did compares to flinging a battleship into the underground tower.

 

[kkck]

Trebol, pica and diamente being equals sounds like a stretch. Their ranks within the crew are equal of course, as there is no implied hierarchy by their names and positions, but context at least suggests pica is the strongest of the 3.

As for LaoG.... who knows? His technique presumably made him as strong as he was in his youth but what he did to chinjao was primarily driven by chinjao being unable to recover from his fight with luffy. And chinjao did show that at least he was capable of fighting gear 2-3 luffy evenly. In turn the implication with Sai was that after his confrontation with chinjao he finally inherited the hashoken and whatnot and his kick was able to match and surpass chinjao. It sounds pretty in line with the haki boosts luffy and zoro have gotten through WCI and wano (though of course the amount of the boost isn't necessarily comparable). If we take hype somewhat literally then its not that insane to think Lao G with his youth muscles would be in the ballpark of chinjao from when he fought luffy (probably weaker though) and that sai ultimately surpassed both. IIRC even zoro acknowledged sai's power later on. In the end we ultimately do not have a proper reference on how to properly assess lao G's strength though I don't think it's that insane to put sai at the end of the arc as strong or stronger than chinjao at the start of the arc, which makes for insane growth.

 

[McNuss]

Luffy vs doflamingo (doflamingo win, luffy needed help to win)
Zoro vs pica (zoro win)
Sanji vs diamante (sanji win, maybe?)
franky vs trebol (trebol win, franky had trouble against sr pink)
Robin vs sr pink (robin win, probably)
Brook vs lao g (lao g win)
Ussop vs deringer (deringer win)
nami vs gladius (gladius win)
chopper vs sugar (sugar win)

Franky Shogun beats all of them together expect Doffy and Pica lol.

 

[kkck]

Trebol outclasses Diamante in feats. You can maybe discount it on the Diamante fight being all that emotional drama (I did in my tierlist since Diamante is the head of the fighters), but I don't think anything Diamante did compares to flinging a battleship into the underground tower.

Lifting a battleship is not that insane a feat. It sounds like something rookie level pirates could do. Maybe with some effort. Zoro in alabasta was lifting houses and luffy in ennies lobbie could push houses apart. I would argue diamante's half moon technique is more impressive than anything trebol did. If not at least more than throwing a ship..

--- Double Post Merged, Sep 27, 2022, Original Post Date: Sep 27, 2022 ---

Franky Shogun beats all of them together expect Doffy and Pica lol.

Welp, shogun franky would probably do well but:

1.- I specifically say the post is about the strawhats at dressrosa.
2.- Franky for whichever reason didn't use his primary weapon during the arc.

As for frank facing all those people together... probably a reach even with shogun franky. There's a lot of abilities in there that are mostly BS, specially in a group fight. Trebol's ability is probably inconvenient in a group fight for a robot. Giolla can probably turn shogun franky into useless art. Nonstop explosions from gladius, lao g probably punches hard enough to even damage shogun franky. Shogun franky didn't ultimately barely help on against sasaki, it ended up in literal pieces and sasaki's defeat came from franky landing a well placed laser beam. Shogun franky still falls short of sasaki's tier (add to that how lackluster the topo robi were).

 

[Fox666]

They were equals in standing, but I don't think they were equals in a fight. Pica has the most destructive capabilities, and Diamante only has a chance against him if Pica isn't allowed to turn Dressrosa into a rocky mecha (or if they fight somewhere that's not built on rocks like Dressrosa is). Trebol probably had some set of skills but as far as I remember he was by far the most underwhelming of the three, with no particular trick up his sleeve other than faking being a logia.

I think everything implied they are equals

We didn't get the chance to see the extend of their strength in terms of scale, since that's not practical


Pica himself was capable of fighting Zoro in a swordfight for an extended period... that alone means he should have been capable of cutting mountains, only smaller than Zoro, right?

Trebol easily lifted a battleship with his mucus, his ability may have been capable of preventing Pica's stone from moving properly

Diamante sliced off part of the plateau while attacking Rebecca... I wonder if he can use it to chase Pica inside his statue

 

[Nie Li]

I think everything implied they are equals

We didn't get the chance to see the extend of their strength in terms of scale, since that's not practical


Pica himself was capable of fighting Zoro in a swordfight for an extended period... that alone means he should have been capable of cutting mountains, only smaller than Zoro, right?

Trebol easily lifted a battleship with his mucus, his ability may have been capable of preventing Pica's stone from moving properly

Diamante sliced off part of the plateau while attacking Rebecca... I wonder if he can use it to chase Pica inside his statue

I actually agree for the most part but I don't think Pica is really capable of fighting Zoro in a proper swordfight. He simply kept using his DF to run out of Zoro's killer blows. When he couldn't do that anymore on the air, not even full body blackening protected him with one more slash from Zoro.

So while Pica can certainly fight with Dressrosa Zoro on similar standing, it's through DF shenanigans, so I wouldn't scale his swordsmanship to his. To me he's equal stronger than the other two or weaker depending on where they fight.

It does seem like I understimated Trebol (tbh I completely forgot about that battleship thing. He should have used his DF better on the rooftop).

 

[Fox666]

Pica seemingly fought Zoro for quite some time with his sword off-screen

 

[Nie Li]

Yes, but using his DF to dodge slashes through disappearing.

--- Double Post Merged, Sep 27, 2022, Original Post Date: Sep 27, 2022 ---

There's another thing to argue regarding Pica's swordsmanship.

Queen uses swords and coating them with haki he probably could parry Zoro, just like Apoo parried Zoro's swords before he got serious (he then cut through the tonfas), but that doesn't mean Queen is a swordsman that can pull off flying slashing techniques or the likes. That skillset isn't implied to me unless they show something like Big Mom did. In that regard, Pica showed nothing. I believe his haki could be around Vergo's level but the bulk of his fighting strength revolves around his DF only.

 

[kkck]

Yes, but using his DF to dodge slashes through disappearing.

--- Double Post Merged, Sep 27, 2022, Original Post Date: Sep 27, 2022 ---

There's another thing to argue regarding Pica's swordsmanship.

Queen uses swords and coating them with haki he probably could parry Zoro, just like Apoo parried Zoro's swords before he got serious (he then cut through the tonfas), but that doesn't mean Queen is a swordsman that can pull off flying slashing techniques or the likes. That skillset isn't implied to me unless they show something like Big Mom did. In that regard, Pica showed nothing. I believe his haki could be around Vergo's level but the bulk of his fighting strength revolves around his DF only.

https://cdn.readdetectiveconan.com/file/mangap/2/10776000/10.jpeg

It's not accurate that pica showed nothing swordsmanship wise. That's still a fairly impressive slash. And in general he did manage to engage kyros in pure swordsmanship (though kyros did end up overcoming it).

 

[Nie Li]

https://cdn.readdetectiveconan.com/file/mangap/2/10776000/10.jpeg

It's not accurate that pica showed nothing swordsmanship wise. That's still a fairly impressive slash. And in general he did manage to engage kyros in pure swordsmanship (though kyros did end up overcoming it).

That's Diamante.