One Piece Power Level Discussion Thread

[goldb]

Ground Rules for the Power Level Discussion Thread
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As always, please follow the guidelines set by the Forum Rules that apply across the board.

It's important that discussions from a current chapter are spoiler tagged until 24h have passed from an english release.

• For the sake of constructive discussion, where and when possible please quote/ source any information you provide. Particularly when it comes to conversations carried over from other threads.
• Avoid passive agressive posts, sly remarks or baiting/trolling. You can certainly have fun or disagree without it being at someone's expense.
• Only use anime examples that are canon and as means to provide clarity to pages in the manga. Any other anime material is otherwise non-canon and should only be referenced if it can be proved that the mangaka had approved it.
• We will strive to avoid repetitive discussions and any extensive battle topics will be guided to the Davy Back fight to existing threads or new ones can be made there.

As of now these topics are shelved due to repetitiveness or until the manga can present us with material to further discussions:

1. Shanks v Mihawk
2. Hand to hand fighters > Swordsmen
3. Zoro > Luffy
4. Zoro v Sanji
5. Is Smoker a top 30 character?
6. Mihawk's rank within the story
7. Law having CoC currently.
8. Katakuri > Kaido/Luffy/Etc.

If you wish to continue any of these discussion and remove it from the list, you will need to provide manga material as proof. If there's also anything you think we've covered numerous times, let me know and I'll update the list.

This is the only warning there'll be regarding these ground rules, anything no adhering will be removed. So please just check your posts before posting them.

 

[albertwv]

@Fallou and @kkck , it is not 100% confirmed that Sabo has ACOA. Pay attention, he may very well have ACoA, but not until it is explicitly stated or shown, can we conclude that he indeed does have it. I say again, I'm not against the idea that Sabo has ACoA, but I haven't seen anything that explicitly states that he has it. Just like we had the argument last week about BB and using ACoC, people thought BB was using ACoC but it turned out that it was just the Quake Quake fruit. BB may very well have ACoC, but there is not enough evidence to claim so.
I personally would hold off on saying Sabo does have ACoA.
Sabo vs Fuji, is argued that Fuji was indeed not serious and that he was just killing time since he could not do anything against DD. Sabo even hints that, Fuji wasn't serious. People use that fight to hype Sabo as near admiral level, but there was not much to go by off.
Sabo low-diffed Burgess, but we have no idea how strong Burgess is compared to other pirates.

The Revs honestly do not look at all threatening. I would not be surprised if Dragon was actually weaker than the admirals. It would be such a huge disappointment but I'm not impressed at all by the Rev leaders.
Dragon is unknown so I won't rank him, he could the MWM or MDM but it is because he is directly trying to overthrow the Celestial Dragons and that he may have some connection to make him a threat to the WG.
Sabo is at best YC1. He doesn't have any advance forms of haki, so I don't see him being much of a challenge to the rest of the YC1s. but who knows, I can be wrong. Just from what I've seen on the manga, I'm more impressed by King and Kata and Marco than Sabo.
Ivankov doesn't seem to be that strong compared to YCs or even YEs. I would put Ivankov on the level of Flying 6 or BM Yonko Executives. Also, during MF war, he hinted that he could fight on equal or better ground with Kuma. But who knows.
The 4 Rev commanders were a disappointment besides Karasu, but that is because he looks dope.
They clashed versus 2 admirals, but the marines hinted that those two admirals were held back due to not wanting to destroy the city.

Also, btw, The Revs were basically kicked out of from their home base by the BBpirates, who then fled after CP0 showed up. After seeing Wano, CP0 do not seem threatening at all. I wasn't expecting the Revs to win against BBpirates but it was a disappointment that it took CP0 to kinda bail them out.

 

[Core D. Roy]

@Fallou and @kkck , it is not 100% confirmed that Sabo has ACOA. Pay attention, he may very well have ACoA, but not until it is explicitly stated or shown, can we conclude that he indeed does have it. I say again, I'm not against the idea that Sabo has ACoA, but I haven't seen anything that explicitly states that he has it. Just like we had the argument last week about BB and using ACoC, people thought BB was using ACoC but it turned out that it was just the Quake Quake fruit. BB may very well have ACoC, but there is not enough evidence to claim so.
I personally would hold off on saying Sabo does have ACoA.

I think it's like Rokuogun, where whether or not it's 100% explicitly ACoA, functionally it's exactly the same. The ACoC stuff has been far more vague since Oda took to giving the characteristic 'black lightning' effect we assumed to be unique to CoC to CoA clashes as well.

Sabo vs Fuji, is argued that Fuji was indeed not serious and that he was just killing time since he could not do anything against DD. Sabo even hints that, Fuji wasn't serious. People use that fight to hype Sabo as near admiral level, but there was not much to go by off.

Idk why anyone ever uses Dressrosa to scale Fuji relative to other characters, when he very clearly wasn't going all out.

Sabo is at best YC1. He doesn't have any advance forms of haki, so I don't see him being much of a challenge to the rest of the YC1s. but who knows, I can be wrong. Just from what I've seen on the manga, I'm more impressed by King and Kata and Marco than Sabo.

Flat YC1 is where I have him. Which is just below Ace, which I feel weird about, but Ace is famously a power-scaling nightmare.

Also, btw, The Revs were basically kicked out of from their home base by the BBpirates, who then fled after CP0 showed up. After seeing Wano, CP0 do not seem threatening at all. I wasn't expecting the Revs to win against BBpirates but it was a disappointment that it took CP0 to kinda bail them out.

I think there's a lot of context for the Revs leaving Baltigo that we don't know about. It was a hidden base, so they might've left just because being exposed was instantly a loss. We've seen BB has no problem trying to negotiate with Marines for a benefit, the second that snitch's crew showed up the Revs would have to find a new base.

 

[Fox666]

I re read 1033 and honestly I think I was wrong about Zoro.

I’ve been underestimating him, 1033 is definitely implying he mastered Enma and became equal to Oden.

Current Zoro is Low Yonko level, about equal to Oden.

So Zoro and Luffy are not that far off in terms of power. One is Mid or High Yonko level, the other is Low Yonko level.

I think there's a big difference between mastering Enma and being equal to Oden

 

[Nie Li]

I re read 1033 and honestly I think I was wrong about Zoro.

I’ve been underestimating him, 1033 is definitely implying he mastered Enma and became equal to Oden.

Current Zoro is Low Yonko level, about equal to Oden.

So Zoro and Luffy are not that far off in terms of power. One is Mid or High Yonko level, the other is Low Yonko level.

I think there's a big difference between mastering Enma and being equal to Oden

Only in stamina.

Zoro still can't use CoC coating for too long, and we never saw Oden struggle with time constraints, but Zoro will be capable the next time he fights all out if the power levels keep progressing like they have.

That was the only difference between them at that point.

 

[kkck]

I don't think i ever addressed sabe having that or not. Regardless, it's not confirmed any admiral has it.

 

[Pirate Queen]

I don't think i ever addressed sabe having that or not. Regardless, it's not confirmed any admiral has it.

Sengoku is confirmed to have CoC

 

[kkck]

Sengoku is confirmed to have CoC

So? That doesn't seem relevant to the immediate topic. A bit off topic, even if he had it, it's not the same as being able to clad himself in it.

 

[Pirate Queen]

So? That doesn't seem relevant to the immediate topic. A bit off topic, even if he had it, it's not the same as being able to clad himself in it.

Oh, I just thought it was CoC not the advanced foem

 

[grey matter]

Only in stamina.

Zoro still can't use CoC coating for too long, and we never saw Oden struggle with time constraints, but Zoro will be capable the next time he fights all out if the power levels keep progressing like they have.

That was the only difference between them at that point.

Yep. Basically this.

I think current Zoro can probably hit as hard as Oden. But lacks the stamina and arguably CQC/combat-speed that Oden has

Sabo is at best YC1. He doesn't have any advance forms of haki, so I don't see him being much of a challenge to the rest of the YC1s. but who knows, I can be wrong. Just from what I've seen on the manga, I'm more impressed by King and Kata and Marco than Sabo.

Sabo is YC1 at worst.

He showed one of the most potent advanced armament showings in the series, with what he did to the Colloseum.
Don't tell me it wasn't, when he called it Ryou or something,

And he held his own against Fujitora, while he was just got his DF.

 

[kkck]

He showed one of the most potent advanced armament showings in the series, with what he did to the Colloseum.
Don't tell me it wasn't, when he called it Ryou or something,

And he held his own against Fujitora, while he was just got his DF.

IIRC that what just the name of his martial arts technique which seems based on dragon like claws. It's unclear what the exact degree of sabo's skill with armor haki is.

 

[catagon87]

Yep. Basically this.

I think current Zoro can probably hit as hard as Oden. But lacks the stamina and arguably CQC/combat-speed that Oden has



Sabo is YC1 at worst.

He showed one of the most potent advanced armament showings in the series, with what he did to the Colloseum.
Don't tell me it wasn't, when he called it Ryou or something,

And he held his own against Fujitora, while he was just got his DF.

He also pretty effortlessly handled the coliseum, broke Burgess's armor with his bare hand, then finished Burgess off twice more. Then he went on to break into Mariejois and managed to escape after clashing with the Admirals.

Honestly, after what we saw of the RA, and what we currently know of Dragon's connections, I would estimate that Sabo, as a second-in-command, is on par with any other second-in-command.

 

[albertwv]

@grey matter this does not prove that Sabo has ACoA. He may have it and it makes sense but until it is confirmed then will I believe it. Sabo uses "Ryusoken" which translates to Dragon Claw Fist. "Ryou" is Haki in Wano language and it is not the same as "Ryuu" You got it confused.

Spoiler

Here is the Sabo vs Fuji "fight"
In this page, Sabo asks Fuji why is he playing dumb, Sabo is aware that Fuji is not going all out.

Spoiler

in this panel, It shows that Sabo is onto Fujitora, wondering why isn't being serious and that Fujitora is just putting up a show. If the Marines (WG) find out why Fujitora didn't do anything, his excuse will be that he was being held up by Sabo.

Spoiler

In conclusion, Fuji was NOT being serious towards Sabo. Thus I would not say that Sabo is near Fujitora or the Admirals level.
Sabo is YC1 low, weaker than Kata and King and Marco. IMO. Im sure he has great potential and that next time we see him he will be stronger.

Ace being YC1 is a joke. Marco, Jozu, and Vista were stronger than Ace. Ace even though he was the 2nd Division Commander (this does equate to YC2), he was considered a hot headed rookie among the other WBP Commanders. Even Shanks knew it and warned WB about Ace going after Teach. Ace had potential but he was a hot head (pun intended) and would not be in the same league as Kata, King or Marco.

 

[Lord Traffy Law]

Nahhh sabo explaining
Ryou users always don’t use Ryou in battle
Remember Oda plays it fast and loose , heck haki wasn’t black

Also Zoro doesn’t hit as oden , kaido would have said , again he compares him with WB rocks Roger and shanks , Zoro is powerful and not too far away but oden still considerably hyped more
Also oden mastered enma even before he left wano so that’s not proof of anything
Also it’s not even close , oden briefly knocked out kaido , Zoro couldn’t even knock him off his feet and the scar sizes don’t even compare

 

[Fallou]

@grey matter this does not prove that Sabo has ACoA. He may have it and it makes sense but until it is confirmed then will I believe it. Sabo uses "Ryusoken" which translates to Dragon Claw Fist. "Ryou" is Haki in Wano language and it is not the same as "Ryuu" You got it confused.

Spoiler

Here is the Sabo vs Fuji "fight"
In this page, Sabo asks Fuji why is he playing dumb, Sabo is aware that Fuji is not going all out.

Spoiler

in this panel, It shows that Sabo is onto Fujitora, wondering why isn't being serious and that Fujitora is just putting up a show. If the Marines (WG) find out why Fujitora didn't do anything, his excuse will be that he was being held up by Sabo.

Spoiler

In conclusion, Fuji was NOT being serious towards Sabo. Thus I would not say that Sabo is near Fujitora or the Admirals level.
Sabo is YC1 low, weaker than Kata and King and Marco. IMO. Im sure he has great potential and that next time we see him he will be stronger.

Ace being YC1 is a joke. Marco, Jozu, and Vista were stronger than Ace. Ace even though he was the 2nd Division Commander (this does equate to YC2), he was considered a hot headed rookie among the other WBP Commanders. Even Shanks knew it and warned WB about Ace going after Teach. Ace had potential but he was a hot head (pun intended) and would not be in the same league as Kata, King or Marco.

Is this all because Sabo being YC+ would make him the same level as Zoro? Cause otherwise, seeing as there’s no proof either way, why not wish for him to be YC+? I don’t really see the problem here…
Sorry but usually when someone’s so insistant about power scaling without any concrete evidence, it’s because it conflicts with their own fandom
And well, Zoro fans are notoriously insistant on literally any power level discussion that relates, even remotely, to him

 

[albertwv]

Is this all because Sabo being YC+ would make him the same level as Zoro? Cause otherwise, seeing as there’s no proof either way, why not wish for him to be YC+? I don’t really see the problem here…
Sorry but usually when someone’s so insistant about power scaling without any concrete evidence, it’s because it conflicts with their own fandom
And well, Zoro fans are notoriously insistant on literally any power level discussion that relates, even remotely, to him

I have not even brought up Zolo at all. I could care less about Zolo vs Sabo or how Zolo ranks compared to him. lol. Idk why you bringing up Zolo.

If there is no solid proof then why rank him as a YC1+? Right? Sabo that is.
I rank individuals by manga feats and how they would fare versus other opponents' strengths not just their DFs.

A lot of people on this discussion have the misconception that, a person's particular DF abilities/powers can overcome one person then that automatically makes them stronger than that person. When it reality, we are looking at the whole individual. We rank characters based on their overall strength which includes: physical strength, speed, Haki, DF power, durability, stamina, etc.
NOT DF ability alone.
If not then Sugar would be at the top, above Kaido. Narrative wise (and common sense) we see that is not true.

 

[XXGenesis]

At this point in the manga to deny a character their proper placement or listing in the concept of power Scailing is simply downplaying them.

Yes One Piece has its inconsistency; But Oda does a decent job retcon & setting a new standard.

Sabo is YC1 or YC1+..Dominated Burgess; Attained The Mera Mera; Fought an Admiral didn’t suffer major damage.

Kuma- Took no damage from Ivankov Roflmao at this perspective. Zoro hurting is probably the biggest outlier in the series…

Boa Hancock is YC1+…We had signs but Oda finally revealed she’s very very dangerous with her DF. We won’t get an full expose of Boa going all out. But Physical prowess & ability she’s above the likes of Smoothie or Queen for sure.

Weevil- Oda is putting mad respect on the Warlords. If he rivals a young WB. He would have to be YC1/YC1+…

I never thought this Tier would or could be so big. But with Oda Putting respect on the Warlords shift things up especially with the Seraphs.

It’s not all the crazy to think the new age or remaining characters are this strong

 

[Fallou]

I have not even brought up Zolo at all. I could care less about Zolo vs Sabo or how Zolo ranks compared to him. lol. Idk why you bringing up Zolo.

If there is no solid proof then why rank him as a YC1+? Right? Sabo that is.
I rank individuals by manga feats and how they would fare versus other opponents' strengths not just their DFs.

A lot of people on this discussion have the misconception that, a person's particular DF abilities/powers can overcome one person then that automatically makes them stronger than that person. When it reality, we are looking at the whole individual. We rank characters based on their overall strength which includes: physical strength, speed, Haki, DF power, durability, stamina, etc.
NOT DF ability alone.
If not then Sugar would be at the top, above Kaido. Narrative wise (and common sense) we see that is not true.

Ok then my bad

 

[kkck]

At this point in the manga to deny a character their proper placement or listing in the concept of power Scailing is simply downplaying them.

Yes One Piece has its inconsistency; But Oda does a decent job retcon & setting a new standard.

Sabo is YC1 or YC1+..Dominated Burgess; Attained The Mera Mera; Fought an Admiral didn’t suffer major damage.

Kuma- Took no damage from Ivankov Roflmao at this perspective. Zoro hurting is probably the biggest outlier in the series…

Boa Hancock is YC1+…We had signs but Oda finally revealed she’s very very dangerous with her DF. We won’t get an full expose of Boa going all out. But Physical prowess & ability she’s above the likes of Smoothie or Queen for sure.

Weevil- Oda is putting mad respect on the Warlords. If he rivals a young WB. He would have to be YC1/YC1+…

I never thought this Tier would or could be so big. But with Oda Putting respect on the Warlords shift things up especially with the Seraphs.

It’s not all the crazy to think the new age or remaining characters are this strong

I still think the situation here is that kuma was probably weakened by his conversion into a cyborg. Even if kuma is more advanced than the pacifista at marineford. The if vegapunk was interested in his body it makes sense that he would take kuma apart piece by piece and give him cyborg parts in return.

 

[Lord Traffy Law]

Boa does have a broken ass fruit
But BB haki might not be at the level of kaido and big mum to passively resist effects
Notning I’ve seen physically suggest she’s YC1 or YC1+
Like she seems as capable hand to hand as Katakuri ? Post WCI luffy ? Current Zoro ? Dressora zoro ? Or even a king
Honestly I can see her being Doffy level still
Again that’s still extremely powerful
No display of any advanced haki yet
Like she might be but definitively on that level seems like a stretch

 

[albertwv]

Boa does have a broken ass fruit
But BB haki might not be at the level of kaido and big mum to passively resist effects
Notning I’ve seen physically suggest she’s YC1 or YC1+
Like she seems as capable hand to hand as Katakuri ? Post WCI luffy ? Current Zoro ? Dressora zoro ? Or even a king
Honestly I can see her being Doffy level still
Again that’s still extremely powerful
No display of any advanced haki yet
Like she might be but definitively on that level seems like a stretch

THANK YOU!!!!

@XXGenesis simply stating that there is no evidence to put such characters at such a high level, does NOT mean that we are downplaying them. It smoky means that we are using facts and evidence to decide where to rank them. We literally don't have enough evidence to claim Weevil will be YC1. How would that be downplaying him if I say he isn't simply because I have nothing to go by off besides one simple statement from Kizaru?

Hancock literally only has her stone turning ability that makes her dangerous to others, but as we've seen with Law stating that Haki can overcome DF's abilities, then it would make sense that other strong Haki users can do the same and bypass her stone turning power. Now what else does she have to go for herself? @Lord Traffy Law made excellent points on ranking Hancock.
What feats do we have that can place Hancock stronger or equal to Katakuri or King or Marcos? She hasn't shown any ACoO or ACoA much less ACoC.

Regarding Kuma, he is a hard one because there isn't much to go by off. I brought up Ivankov to begin a discussion about those two being relatively equal to each other, either by Rev Army standing and how Ivankov was not afraid to place Kuma in his place. Not saying Ivankov > Kuma, since we never saw the conclusion of that duel nor that Kuma took damage, but it seemed to me that Ivankov saw himself as equal or stronger to Kuma. I do sure hope not, because I don't place Ivankov that high up.
But I will not go and say Kuma is a YC1 simply because "Oda is hyping up the warlords". If you've forgotten, Oda trashed the Warlords after Doflamingo's defeat. Kaido straight laughed at the concept of the Warlords.

Hyping up the Warlords because of the Seraphims being clones to them shouldn't be a thing. The WG placed more trust on the Seraphims than on the Warlords that they could defeat the Yonko.