One Piece Power Level Discussion Thread

[goldb]

Ground Rules for the Power Level Discussion Thread
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As always, please follow the guidelines set by the Forum Rules that apply across the board.

It's important that discussions from a current chapter are spoiler tagged until 24h have passed from an english release.

• For the sake of constructive discussion, where and when possible please quote/ source any information you provide. Particularly when it comes to conversations carried over from other threads.
• Avoid passive agressive posts, sly remarks or baiting/trolling. You can certainly have fun or disagree without it being at someone's expense.
• Only use anime examples that are canon and as means to provide clarity to pages in the manga. Any other anime material is otherwise non-canon and should only be referenced if it can be proved that the mangaka had approved it.
• We will strive to avoid repetitive discussions and any extensive battle topics will be guided to the Davy Back fight to existing threads or new ones can be made there.

As of now these topics are shelved due to repetitiveness or until the manga can present us with material to further discussions:

1. Shanks v Mihawk
2. Hand to hand fighters > Swordsmen
3. Zoro > Luffy
4. Zoro v Sanji
5. Is Smoker a top 30 character?
6. Mihawk's rank within the story
7. Law having CoC currently.
8. Katakuri > Kaido/Luffy/Etc.

If you wish to continue any of these discussion and remove it from the list, you will need to provide manga material as proof. If there's also anything you think we've covered numerous times, let me know and I'll update the list.

This is the only warning there'll be regarding these ground rules, anything no adhering will be removed. So please just check your posts before posting them.

 

[Gallon]

Base Luffy which was much slower than Snakeman and that Luffy wasn't using Future Sight


Luffy was never using Future Sight against Thunder Bagua. Against Roaring Bagua in ch. 1042, Boundman Luffy wasn't calm since he was running out of time so he was rushing to Kaido to beat him as soon as possible meaning he wasn't calm and he cannot use Future Sight.



Still got blitzed by Snakeman which scales to Katakuri speed wise.



He bit Luffy after Luffy pulled his arm and stretched his arm. Katakuri blitzed Luffy before Luffy could pull his arm. Katakuri was faster.



Agree. Kaido could only use FS in drunk mode. Without drunk mode, he needs lucky shot or outlast Katakuri haki to hit him to eventually beat him.



Then why couldn't Kaido dodge Over Kong Gun a much slower attack than SNakeman unless Kaido wasn't using Future Sight. He needed Thief Mode because that's the only way he could use Future Sight.



Because he cannot use Future Sight that's why he used Thief Mode. Without Thief Mode Kaido cannot use Future Sight.



Kaido bent his body to copy Snakeman speed as well.

Kaido's fighting style goes against half your argument - Kaido didn't dodge Boundman because Kaido's fighting style is taking attacks and retaliating with even more force in order to out-macho his opponents. The logic you're presenting only stands if he fought in a similar fashion to Katakuri.
He does not use Future Sight because he rarely needs it, and it does not suit his fighting style. He cannot copy abilities and just use them in Thief Mode, what the fuck.

Let's put it this way - if Snakeman, which is relative to Katakuri, is so much faster, why did Luffy not stick to it for the entire fight? I mean, if Katakuri can blitz Kaido and the latter would need a lucky shot, the same should apply to Luffy, no?
Instead, Luffy lands a barrage, gets immediately countered, and re-enters Boundman.
If your argument were sound, Kaido would have landed nigh zero hits on Luffy, and the entire rooftop fight should have been Snakeman Luffy vs Kaido. Is Luffy just dumb? Did he not realize he could blitz Kaido? Did he not realize Kaido would need a lucky shot against him?
Hell no. Luffy dropped that strategy immediately, because it would not work.

 

[BlackTiger]

Kaido's fighting style goes against half your argument - Kaido didn't dodge Boundman because Kaido's fighting style is taking attacks and retaliating with even more force in order to out-macho his opponents. The logic you're presenting only stands if he fought in a similar fashion to Katakuri.

Kaido said Luffy was the first person to force him to use his full power. It's coping to say kaido held backk trying not to dodge when he dodged Red Hawk and Gear 3 Luffy.

He does not use Future Sight because he rarely needs it, and it does not suit his fighting style. He cannot copy abilities and just use them in Thief Mode, what the fuck.

Headcannon. He said Luffy was the first person to make him use his full power yet he wasn't using Future Sight? Seems like coping. Kaido cannot dodge Over Kong Gun after he dodged Snakeman. Why coudln't he dodge Over Kong Gun a much slower attack than Snakeman f he could Future Sight all the time unless he could only use it in Thief Mode.

if Snakeman, who is relative to Katakuri, is so much faster, why did Luffy not stick to it for the entire fight? I mean, if Katakuri can blitz Kaido and the latter would need a lucky shot, the same should apply to Luffy, no?

Lack ap. Boundman has more ap.

Instead, Luffy lands a barrage, gets immediately countered, and re-enters Boundman.

Boundman has higher ap and Luffy had to finish Kaido as soon as possible before he ran out of haki in Gear 4 therefore he switched to Boundman which has higher ap so he could finish kaido as soon as possible.

If your argument were sound, Kaido would have landed nigh zero hits on Luffy, and the entire rooftop fight should have been Snakeman Luffy vs Kaido.

Luffy needed more ap to beat Kaido. Speed won't help him. Why would Kaido have a problem hitting base Luffy when base Luffy is much slower than Gear 2 which is much slower than Snakeman?

Is Luffy just dumb? Did he not realize he could blitz Kaido? Did he not realize Kaido would need a lucky shot against him?

Why didn't Luffy use Boundman against Doflamingo from the start? Was he dumb?

Hell no. Luffy dropped that strategy immediately, because it would not work.

Yeah because Gear 4 time limit was running out and he had to finish Kaido as soon as possible so he switched to Boundman that has higher ap so he could finish Kaido before Gear 4 time limit was running out.

If Kaido could use Future Sight all the time then why couldn't he dodge Over kong gun a much slower attack?

This if and if argument is nothing but your attempt to dodge that Kaido with FS is much slower than FS katakuri.

 

[Gallon]

Kaido said Luffy was the first person to force him to use his full power. It's coping to say kaido held backk trying not to dodge when he dodged Red Hawk and Gear 3 Luffy.


Headcannon. He said Luffy was the first person to make him use his full power yet he wasn't using Future Sight? Seems like coping. Kaido cannot dodge Over Kong Gun after he dodged Snakeman. Why coudln't he dodge Over Kong Gun a much slower attack than Snakeman f he could Future Sight all the time unless he could only use it in Thief Mode.



Lack ap. Boundman has more ap.



Boundman has higher ap and Luffy had to finish Kaido as soon as possible before he ran out of haki in Gear 4 therefore he switched to Boundman which has higher ap so he could finish kaido as soon as possible.



Luffy needed more ap to beat Kaido. Speed won't help him. Why would Kaido have a problem hitting base Luffy when base Luffy is much slower than Gear 2 which is much slower than Snakeman?



Why didn't Luffy use Boundman against Doflamingo from the start? Was he dumb?



Yeah because Gear 4 time limit was running out and he had to finish Kaido as soon as possible so he switched to Boundman that has higher ap so he could finish Kaido before Gear 4 time limit was running out.

If Kaido could use Future Sight all the time then why couldn't he dodge Over kong gun a much slower attack?

This if and if argument is nothing but your attempt to dodge that Kaido with FS is much slower than FS katakuri.

Okay, you got me - Kaido can only use Future Sight in Thief Mode. Fuck, incredible argument. It's not like he didn't need it after he dodged Snakeman, he just couldn't use it!

What are you talking about? Snakeman's one blow has less attack power, but unlike Boundman, it builds up acceleration and barrages; in the time it takes Boundman to land one hit, Snakeman can land multiple. Are multiple Snakeman blows weaker than one Boundman blow? If Kaido had no way of dodging them, why not stack up hundreds of Snakeman hits instead of a dozen Boundman hits? Base Luffy's CoC hits were hitting hard enough, and Snakeman wasn't? Crazy.
Your Doflamingo argument makes no sense as I'm comparing two Gear 4 modes, both of which consume the same amount of Haki.

And no, I'm not really dodging anything - FS Kaido blitzed FS Snakeman Luffy, Luffy saw he had no shot, and switched back to Boundman. FS Kaido > FS Luffy. Katakuri is even slower.
Thaaaaank you.

 

[BlackTiger]

Okay, you got me - Kaido can only use Future Sight in Thief Mode. Fuck, incredible argument. It's not like he didn't need it after he dodged Snakeman, he just couldn't use it!

After he dodged Snakeman, he got hit by Over Kong Gun a much slower attack which means he could not use Future Sight. Only in Thief Mode he could use it.

What are you talking about? Snakeman's one blow has less attack power, but unlike Boundman, it builds up acceleration and barrages; in the time it takes Boundman to land one hit, Snakeman can land multiple. Are multiple Snakeman blows weaker than one Boundman blow? If Kaido had no way of dodging them, why not stack up hundreds of Snakeman hits instead of a dozen Boundman hits? Base Luffy's CoC hits were hitting hard enough, and Snakeman wasn't? Crazy.
Your Doflamingo argument makes no sense as I'm comparing two Gear 4 modes, both of which consume the same amount of Haki.

1 Boundman attack made Katakuri flying all the way through out Mirror World. Multiple Snakeman attacks cannot do that.

Gear 4 is last attempt. Was Luffy dumb for not using Gear 4 from the start against Kaido? Was Luffy dumb not using Snakeman from the start against Katakuri? Gear 4 is last attempt which uses a lot of haki and leaves Luffy defenseless afterward.

And no, I'm not really dodging anything - FS Kaido blitzed Luffy, Luffy saw he had no shot, and switched back to Boundman. FS Kaido > FS Luffy. Katakuri is even slower.
Thaaaaank you.

FS Kaido with Snakeman trajectory blitzed Luffy after Luffy pulled and stretched his arm. Katakuri blitzed Snakeman before Luffy could pull his arm. Katakuri was much faster no matter how you look at it. This is the argument you cannot debunk so you used if and if argument as an attempt to dodge this.

Luffy saw he had no shot, and switched back to Boundman.

Literally the most fanfic argument I have come across. He switched back to Boundman because Boundman has more ap to finish Kaido. He had to FINISH KAIDO AS SOON AS POSSIBLE BEFORE HIS GEAR 4 TIME LIMIT RAN OUT THEREFORE HE USED BOUNDMAN FORM THAT PROVIDED HIGHER AP.

Seem like you have no counter argument for this so I typed this big. Maybe you missed it or you don't have argument for this so you ignored it.

Why would Luffy switch to slower form if his faster form got countered by FS Kaido unless he used slower form to deal more damage to Kaido? Explain this.

 

[Gallon]

After he dodged Snakeman, he got hit by Over Kong Gun a much slower attack which means he could not use Future Sight. Only in Thief Mode he could use it.

Or he saw that Luffy was no longer relying on speed, and deactivated his Future Sight as it drains Haki needlessly for someone as tanky as Kaido. I wonder which one sounds more logical.

1 Boundman attack made Katakuri flying all the way through out Mirror World. Multiple Snakeman attacks cannot do that.

Gear 4 is last attempt. Was Luffy dumb for not using Gear 4 from the start against Kaido? Was Luffy dumb not using Snakeman from the start against Katakuri? Gear 4 is last attempt which uses a lot of haki and leaves Luffy defenseless afterward.

Base Luffy's Conqueror Haki blows were making Kaido fall to the ground but Boundman blows weren't. A casual Kanabo swing to the ground by base Kaido caused part of the roof to collapse, whereas his hybrid form Ragnaraku only left a dent on the roof.
Do you see how meaningless these arguments are? They mean nothing. Advanced Conqueror's blows from Snakeman should be devastating, and that is all that needs to be said.

FS Kaido with Snakeman trajectory blitzed Luffy after Luffy pulled and stretched his arm. Katakuri blitzed Snakeman before Luffy could pull his arm. Katakuri was much faster no matter how you look at it. This is the argument you cannot debunk so you used if and if argument as an attempt to dodge this.

I agree, because it is too stupid to debunk.

Luffy saw he had no shot, and switched back to Boundman.

Literally the most fanfic argument I have come across. He switched back to Boundman because Boundman has more ap to finish Kaido. Why would Luffy switch to slower form if his faster form got countered by FS Kaido unless he used slower form to deal more damage to Kaido? Explain this.

Yes, and he switched to Boundman because he knew Kaido would now go back to fighting normally. Luffy made Kaido switch his fighting style, and once he saw it had no effect, he went back to the blow-for-blow battle as a faster mode was meaningless anyway, since it was countered.

 

[LaGOAT]

Where are these hidden panels of Luffy training his speed in Udon that I kept hearing about? Do you have access to Two Piece? In One Piece, after Udon he only got stronger in armament not in speed or durability.

Base in ur logic base wano luffy=base fishman island luffy also g4 dressrosa luffy= g4 pre rooftop wano luffy

--- Double Post Merged, Jan 7, 2023, Original Post Date: Jan 7, 2023 ---

Here comes there are hidden panels of Luffy training his speed in udon part 92947397 when there are only panels of him training his armament. This is a dead argument based on nothing.

End of WCI Luffy = Wano Luffy in term of speed. Then Luffy trained his armament in Udon. Then he got power up CoC coating which boosts his attack power. He didn't get any speed boost. Speed wise end of WCI Snakeman Luffy=Wano Snakeman Luffy=Katakuri. Snakena blitzing Kaido means Katakuri would blitz kaido as hard as Snakeman.

WCI snakeman Luffy was using Future Sight. The way Snakeman was using his attacks in Wano was similar with how Snakeman was using his attacks in WCI and Kaido confirmed rooftop Snakeman was using Future Sight which means WCI Snakeman Luffy was also using Future Sight. This is a cope argument because you cannot admit that Kaido needs to struggle a lot to beat Katakuri.

Snakeman never blitzed Katakuri. Katakuri just didn't know Snakeman could bend his arm after Katakuri dodged his attack.

--- Double Post Merged, Jan 7, 2023, Original Post Date: Jan 7, 2023 ---

Kaido got blitzed by SNakeman. Katakuri kept up with Snakeman do the math.

It was base Luffy which was hit by Thunder Bagua. Snakeman Luffy humiliated Kaido so bad to the point Kaido can't perform any of his attacks which means Katakuri would blitz Kaido as well.

Katakuri completely dodged Snakeman outmaneuvering it. Luffy was using faster attacks like Black mamba against Katakuri on the other hand Luffy was using Jet Culverin against Kaido.

Kaido was trying to dodge Jet Culverin that's why he was using Thief Mode. What's the point of using Thief Mode if he wasn't trying to dodge Jet Culverin?

--- Double Post Merged, Jan 7, 2023 ---

Kaido was literally trying to dodge SNakeman that's why he was using Thief Mode.

I don’t know what thief mode is lol But he has FS and used it just show luffy that he has it

Ok that just base ur logic wano g4 snakeman luffy with ryou and FS>wci luffy with FS point till stands

 

[BlackTiger]

Or he saw that Luffy was no longer relying on speed, and deactivated his Future Sight as it drains Haki needlessly for someone as tanky as Kaido. I wonder which one sounds more logical.

Headcannon. So he purposely didn't dodge a much stronger attack than Snakeman? He tried to use FS to dodge Snakeman but he purposely took a much stronger attack Over Kong Gun? The only explanation is he could not use Future Sight unless in thief Mode

Base Luffy's Conqueror Haki blows were making Kaido fall to the ground but Boundman blows weren't. A casual Kanabo swing to the ground by base Kaido caused part of the roof to collapse, whereas his hybrid form Ragnaraku only left a dent on the roof.
Do you see how meaningless these arguments are? They mean nothing. Advanced Conqueror's blows from Snakeman should be devastating, and that is all that needs to be said.

And advanced conqueror from Boundman should be more devastating. Non CoC Coating Boundman sent Katakuri flying all across mirror world. Non CoC coating Snakeman cannot do that. Boundman>>>Snakeman in term of ap.

Boundman without CoC coating cannot make Kaido fall to the ground yes. base Luffy attack with CoC coating made Kaido fall to the ground. You're comparing CoC coating base Luffy with non CoC coating Boundman while I'm comparing non CoC coating Snakeman and non CoC coating Boundman with non CoC coating Boundman showed much higher ap sending Katakuri flying all across mirror world with 1 attack.

agree, because it is too stupid to debunk.

You have no argument why would Luffy used slower mode unless to have more ap? Why couldn't Kaido bit Luffy before Luffy pulled his arm like Katakuri did if Kaido was really fater than Katakuri?

Yes, and he switched to Boundman because he knew Kaido would now go back to fighting normally. Luffy made Kaido switch his fighting style, and once he saw it had no effect, he went back to the blow-for-blow battle as a faster mode was meaningless anyway, since it was countered.

[/QUOTE]

It's shown in the manga Luffy had to finish kaido as quick as possible before Gear 4 time limit ran out.

Boundman provided more ap thus he used it to finish Kaido faster before Gear 4 time limit ran out. It's backed by the manga.

Now do you have of panels with Luffy monologue that he used Boundman because he knew Kaido was fighting normally?

Why couldn't Kaido dodge a much slower attack Over Kong Gun after he waa dodging Snakeman unless he cannot use Future Sight all the time?

Base in ur logic base wano luffy=base fishman island luffy also g4 dressrosa luffy= g4 pre rooftop wano luffy

I didn't say that. I agree Start of Wano Luffy>>>Start of WCI Luffy. But end of WCI Luffy=start of Wano Luffy and throughout Wano Luffy only got ap boost not speed boost.

I don’t know what thief mode is lol But he has FS and used it just show luffy that he has it

If he could use Future Sight all the time then why couldn't he dodge a much slower attack like Over Kong Gun?

Ok that just base ur logic wano g4 snakeman luffy with ryou and FS>wci luffy with FS point till stands

Only in ap though not in speed. Luffy power up in Wano was ap not speed so Snakeman Wano Luffy=Snakeman WCI luffy in speed. Katakuri blitzes Kaido and Kaido needs lucky shot or outlast Katakuri haki to hit him to beat him.

 

[Gallon]

Headcannon. So he purposely didn't dodge a much stronger attack than Snakeman? He tried to use FS to dodge Snakeman but he purposely took a much stronger attack Over Kong Gun? The only explanation is he could not use Future Sight unless in thief Mode


And advanced conqueror from Boundman should be more devastating. Non CoC Coating Boundman sent Katakuri flying all across mirror world. Non CoC coating Snakeman cannot do that. Boundman>>>Snakeman in term of ap.

Boundman without CoC coating cannot make Kaido fall to the ground yes. base Luffy attack with CoC coating made Kaido fall to the ground. You're comparing CoC coating base Luffy with non CoC coating Boundman while I'm comparing non CoC coating Snakeman and non CoC coating Boundman with non CoC coating Boundman showed much higher ap sending Katakuri flying all across mirror world with 1 attack.



You have no argument why would Luffy used slower mode unless to have more ap?


It's shown in the manga Luffy had to finish kaido as quick as possible before Gear 4 time limit ran out.

Boundman provided more ap thus he used it to finish Kaido faster before Gear 4 time limit ran out. It's backed by the manga.

Now do you have of panels with Luffy monologue that he used Boundman because he knew Kaido was fighting normally?

Why couldn't Kaido dodge a much slower attack Over Kong Gun after he waa dodging Snakeman unless he cannot use Future Sight all the time?



I didn't say that. I agree Start of Wano Luffy>>>Start of WCI Luffy. But end of WCI Luffy=start of Wano Luffy and throughout Wano Luffy only got ap boost not speed boost.

If he could use Future Sight all the time then why couldn't he dodge a much slower attack like Over Kong Gun?

Only in ap though not in speed. Luffy power up in Wano was ap not speed so Snakeman Wano Luffy=Snakeman WCI luffy in speed. Katakuri blitzes Kaido and Kaido needs lucky shot or outlast Katakuri haki to hit him to beat him.

Of course you go for the attack with more AP if it's your only shot, lol. Snakeman got countered, and it served no further role. Luffy tried it, and it got him nowhere. You're failing to realize that G4 was already about to run out when Luffy entered Snakeman, so the fact he switched back to Boundman was because he saw no further use for Snakeman. In fact, he mostly used Boundman during the entire fight, and it obviously implies he didn't see Snakeman as game-changing.

I'm comparing CoC Boundman and CoC base in order to illustrate that your artistic nitpickings with blowing someone through this many meters and retracting arms this and that fast are just artistic in the end. They serve no purpose in an argument, because Oda pays no attention to minute details like these.
Based on the examples I gave above, it would appear that base Kaido is way stronger than Hybrid Kaido, and we both know that's completely false. I do not agree with your relying on such points to form an argument.

I obviously agree that Boundman has more attack power, as it's been explained, but saying Kaido only has Future Sight in one mode is nonsensical, as it takes training to achieve Future Sight. I see no logic in your argument.

 

[BlackTiger]

Of course you go for the attack with more AP if it's your only shot, lol. Snakeman got countered, and it served no further role.

No it just didn't have enough ap to beat Kaido before Gear 4 time limit ran out. Luffy used his form with the highest ap and that's Boundman. Not because he thought that Snakeman can't be used against kaido. kaido said Luffy was the first person to make him his full power since Oden. No reason for Kaido not to use Future Sight all the time. he could only use it in Thief Mode simple as that.

Luffy tried it, and it got him nowhere.

Got countered when kaido was using Thief Mode. Kaido cannot use Future Sight again after that since he cannot dodge a much slower attack Over Kong Gun.

You're failing to realize that G4 was already about to run out when Luffy entered Snakeman,

Panels to support this?

so the fact he switched back to Boundman was because he saw no further use for Snakeman.

No Boundman provided more ap. He used his form with the highest ap to finish Kaido before Boundman time limit ran out. Ut served no purpose that means Kaido purposely didn't use Future Sight. Do you have panels to support this when kaido said Luffy was the first person to make Kaido use his full power since Oden?

In fact, he mostly used Boundman during the entire fight, and it obviously implies he didn't see Snakeman as game-changing.

He wanted to finish Kaido with more punches then he realized he was almost out of time thus he used Boundman that has higher ap.

I'm comparing CoC Boundman and CoC base in order to illustrate that your artistic nitpickings with blowing someone through this many meters and retracting arms this and that fast are just artistic in the end. They serve no purpose in an argument, because Oda pays no attention to minute details like these.
Based on the examples I gave above, it would appear that base Kaido is way stronger than Hybrid Kaido, and we both know that's completely false. I do not agree with your relying on such points to form an argument.

CoC base Luffy never sent Kaido flying across Onigashima. Only knocked him down. And CoC Boundman was used against dragon kaido that was much bigger not against hybrid Kaido.

You better compare both attacks against the same person, Katakuri. Katakuri got sent flying with 1 Boundman punch is proof enough Boundman provided more ap. Luffy used Boundman as his last resort in ch. 1042 is proof Boundman has more ap.

I obviously agree that Boundman has more attack power, as it's been explained, but saying Kaido only has Future Sight in one mode is nonsensical, as it takes training to achieve Future Sight. I see no logic in your argument.

Yet he couldn't dodge Over kong Gun a much slower attack than Snakeman. Looks like your kaido low diffs Katakuri agenda is destroyed therefore you're making up headcannon Kaido could use Future Sight all the time but purposely didn't use it against someone he admitted he used full power on since Oden.

 

[Fox666]

Where are these hidden panels of Luffy training his speed in Udon that I kept hearing about? Do you have access to Two Piece? In One Piece, after Udon he only got stronger in armament not in speed or durability.

You guys are crazy

Luffy went from this:

To this:

Luffy is clearly many times stronger, faster, more durable, etc

By this point Luffy would one-shot Katakuri

 

[BlackTiger]

You guys are crazy

Luffy went from this:

To this:

Luffy is clearly many times stronger, faster, more durable, etc

By this point Luffy would one-shot Katakuri

First image is Luffy wasn't using Future Sight while Kaido was using his fastest attack Thunder Bagua.

Second image is weakened Kaido using his normal attack with fresh Luffy using normal attack.

Luffy didn't get faster. Kaido just used slower attacks therefore Luffy could keep up with his speed. Moreover, Kaido was weakened as well stated by Yamato.

Luffy's training in Udon was armament. Not speed. Katakuri blitzes current Gear 5 Luffy as kaido reacted to Gear 5 but he was treated like a punching bag by Snakeman and Katakuri scales to Snakeman in speed. Only current Snakeman Luffy could low diff Katakuri. Other form of Luffy would get blitzed or need lucky shot to beat him.

 

[Gallon]

Katakuri blitzes current Gear 5 Luffy as kaido reacted to Gear 5 but he was treated like a punching bag by Snakeman and Katakuri scales to Snakeman in speed.

How are we supposed to argue with you when you say shit like this?

 

[BlackTiger]

How are we supposed to argue with you when you say shit like this?

Because that's what happened in the manga. Katakuri kept up with Snakeman while Kaido was treated as Snakeman punching bag. Luffy power up throughout Wano was ap not speed so if Snakeman Luffy blitzed Kaido, Katakuri would do the same. Kaido needs lucky shot to hit Katakuri or outlast his haki.

Unfortunately even with FS and copying Snakeman movement trajectory, Katakuri is still faster since Katakuri blitzed Snakeman before Snakeman could pull his arm while Kaido bit Luffy after Snakeman pulled his arm and stretched his arm again.

Kaido also could use Future Sight in drunk mode and still slower than Katakuri.

 

[Fox666]

Luffy get stronger or faster all the time

Base Luffy's speed scales to Buggy, therefore Buggy could fight base Rob Lucci...?

Well, no. Luffy evolved a lot between Orange Town and Ennies Lobby arc.

The same goes for Luffy vs Kaido. It's on an entirely different level from Luffy vs Katakuri.

 

[BlackTiger]

Luffy get stronger or faster all the time

Base Luffy's speed scales to Buggy, therefore Buggy could fight base Rob Lucci...?

Well, no. Luffy evolved a lot between Orange Town and Ennies Lobby arc.

The same goes for Luffy vs Kaido. It's on an entirely different level from Luffy vs Katakuri.

If Luffy got faster after his fight with Katakuri then the same thing could be said Katakuri also got faster after his fight with Luffy. So post WCI Snakeman Luffy=post WCI Katakuri in term of speed. Then Luffy trained his armament in Udon. Got CoC coating which has nothing to do with his speed. So the speed gap between Wano Snakeman Luffy and post WCI Katakuri didn't change. Snakeman Luffy blitzed Kaido means Katakuri would blitz Kaido as well. Gear 5 that cannot blitz Kaido like Snakeman did would get blitzed by Katakuri as well.

Luffy also didn't get faster throughout his fight with Katakuri and Doflamingo.

Luffy was buried by Katakuri's awakening then came back disturbing Katakuri's marienda then still got blitzed.

Luffy ran from Katakuri. Then came back and still got blitzed.

This non sense that Luffy grew faster throughout his fight with Kaido is based on nothing. Only his ap grew because he got CoC coating.

No difference in term of speed which means if Snakeman Luffy blitzed Kaido, Katakuri blitzes Kaido as well.

 

[XXGenesis]

@BlackTiger You’ve debated your Point many times before. At this point this is just spam. Believe what you will. I’m requesting this topic be banned.

 

[BlackTiger]

@BlackTiger You’ve debated your Point many times before. At this point this is just spam. Believe what you will. I’m requesting this topic be banned.

I believe what's stated in the manga. You called what I believed is ludicrous so I explained why it's not ludicrous. Try to read what I posted and refute it. If you can't because there's no flaw in my argument and you'll just embarrass yourself if you try to refute it then stop bitching and being a crybaby.

 

[Fox666]

If Luffy got faster after his fight with Katakuri then the same thing could be said Katakuri also got faster after his fight with Luffy.

Powerlevels depends on what the author decides.

Luffy got on a whole different level because the plot required him to fight Kaido.

 

[BlackTiger]

Powerlevels depends on what the author decides.

Luffy got on a while different level because the plot required him to fight Kaido.

The plot required Kaido to use his slower attacks against Luffy therefore Luffy could keep up with hybrid Kaido.

The plot required Luffy to keep up with hybrid Kaido's speed therefore Kaido was not allowed to use Thunder Bagua since Kaido blitzed Luffy whenever he used Thunder Bagua.

The power level dictated by the author in the manga is built by the structure which has been established --> getting stronger after beating a strong enemy. So if Luffy got stronger after he beat Katakuri in a tough fight, the same thing could be said for Katakuri as well he got stronger after his tough fight with Luffy.

Luffy got stronger from Shells Town to Alabasta because he kept fighting strong enemies. You want that only apply for Luffy but it does not apply for Katakuri because it does not suit your agenda?

 

[albertwv]

Luffy grew stronger and faster from WCI to Wano to Rooftop. Maybe not much difference from Luffy vs Katakuri to Luffy vs Kaido 1st round, but he trained 2 weeks to fight Kaido. Not only did he work on his ACoA but also FS. We know this because when the rooftop battle began Kaido hit base Luffy with a Thunder Bagua, Luffy still received the hit but he used FS and Kaido still was faster.

This was at the beginning of the rooftop battle, base Kaido and base Luffy.
Obviously Rooftop Snakeman is faster than WCI Snakeman. FS Kaido became faster than Snakeman Luffy.
You may be right that Katakuri was faster than WCI Snakeman, but not by much as we see Snakeman Luffy still managed to land blows on Kata.
To repeat myself, Luffy got faster and stronger from WCI to Rooftop. We didn't see Luffy train his FS like he did his ACoA but in their rematch we saw Luffy himself claim that he used FS but still failed to dodge Kaido's attack unlike their first battle where Kaido blitzed G4 Boundman. Even Kaido states "you won't let the same attack hit you twice head on".

There is also no reason to believe that Kaido needs to use "Thief Mode" to activate his Future Sight. it's like saying Luffy needs to be in Snakeman to use FS.
Kaido is a tank that likes to absorb hits because he is overconfident that they will not hurt him or cause sufficient damage. We rarely see him dodge attacks. Kaido could have dodge 90% of the attacks before Snakeman but he chose not to due to him believing they wouldn't hurt him. Not until Luffy using ACoA did he become more cautious. He literally was in Dragon mode most of the time vs Scabbards, presenting himself as a huge target
AND in the final round he chose to take Luffy's Bajrang Gun a huge fist head on instead of dodging. Kaido could've definitely dodged it but his pride made him take it head on and ultimately cost him the battle.

Ultimately, FS Kaido > Rooftop Snakeman > Kata > WCI Snakeman in terms of speed.