One Piece Power Level Discussion Thread

[goldb]

Ground Rules for the Power Level Discussion Thread
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As always, please follow the guidelines set by the Forum Rules that apply across the board.

It's important that discussions from a current chapter are spoiler tagged until 24h have passed from an english release.

• For the sake of constructive discussion, where and when possible please quote/ source any information you provide. Particularly when it comes to conversations carried over from other threads.
• Avoid passive agressive posts, sly remarks or baiting/trolling. You can certainly have fun or disagree without it being at someone's expense.
• Only use anime examples that are canon and as means to provide clarity to pages in the manga. Any other anime material is otherwise non-canon and should only be referenced if it can be proved that the mangaka had approved it.
• We will strive to avoid repetitive discussions and any extensive battle topics will be guided to the Davy Back fight to existing threads or new ones can be made there.

As of now these topics are shelved due to repetitiveness or until the manga can present us with material to further discussions:

1. Shanks v Mihawk
2. Hand to hand fighters > Swordsmen
3. Zoro > Luffy
4. Zoro v Sanji
5. Is Smoker a top 30 character?
6. Mihawk's rank within the story
7. Law having CoC currently.
8. Katakuri > Kaido/Luffy/Etc.

If you wish to continue any of these discussion and remove it from the list, you will need to provide manga material as proof. If there's also anything you think we've covered numerous times, let me know and I'll update the list.

This is the only warning there'll be regarding these ground rules, anything no adhering will be removed. So please just check your posts before posting them.

 

[LaGOAT]

@BlackTiger bro I was talking about in speed also that’s like saying 9 scabbard=rooftop snakeman luffy because they both blitzed kaido I’m telling ukaido likes to take damage in general so luffy “blitzing” kaido isn’t that impressive when every1 that fought kaido was able to get hits on him lol. He dodge luffy once lol but also he dodge zoro attack once but he ate zoros strongest attack just like he ate luffy g4 attacks lol

--- Double Post Merged, Jan 8, 2023, Original Post Date: Jan 8, 2023 ---

Luffy grew stronger and faster from WCI to Wano to Rooftop. Maybe not much difference from Luffy vs Katakuri to Luffy vs Kaido 1st round, but he trained 2 weeks to fight Kaido. Not only did he work on his ACoA but also FS. We know this because when the rooftop battle began Kaido hit base Luffy with a Thunder Bagua, Luffy still received the hit but he used FS and Kaido still was faster.

This was at the beginning of the rooftop battle, base Kaido and base Luffy.
Obviously Rooftop Snakeman is faster than WCI Snakeman. FS Kaido became faster than Snakeman Luffy.
You may be right that Katakuri was faster than WCI Snakeman, but not by much as we see Snakeman Luffy still managed to land blows on Kata.
To repeat myself, Luffy got faster and stronger from WCI to Rooftop. We didn't see Luffy train his FS like he did his ACoA but in their rematch we saw Luffy himself claim that he used FS but still failed to dodge Kaido's attack unlike their first battle where Kaido blitzed G4 Boundman. Even Kaido states "you won't let the same attack hit you twice head on".

There is also no reason to believe that Kaido needs to use "Thief Mode" to activate his Future Sight. it's like saying Luffy needs to be in Snakeman to use FS.
Kaido is a tank that likes to absorb hits because he is overconfident that they will not hurt him or cause sufficient damage. We rarely see him dodge attacks. Kaido could have dodge 90% of the attacks before Snakeman but he chose not to due to him believing they wouldn't hurt him. Not until Luffy using ACoA did he become more cautious. He literally was in Dragon mode most of the time vs Scabbards, presenting himself as a huge target
AND in the final round he chose to take Luffy's Bajrang Gun a huge fist head on instead of dodging. Kaido could've definitely dodged it but his pride made him take it head on and ultimately cost him the battle.

Ultimately, FS Kaido > Rooftop Snakeman > Kata > WCI Snakeman in terms of speed.

Meaning l kata getting the same treatment as pre rooftop luffy did lol

 

[BlackTiger]

@BlackTiger bro I was talking about in speed also that’s like saying 9 scabbard=rooftop snakeman luffy because they both blitzed kaido I’m telling ukaido likes to take damage in general so luffy “blitzing” kaido isn’t that impressive when every1 that fought kaido was able to get hits on him lol. He dodge luffy once lol but also he dodge zoro attack once but he ate zoros strongest attack just like he ate luffy g4 attacks lol

Not when Kaido was fighting Snakeman Luffy since he admitted Luffy was the first person to make hi his full power moreover Kaido dodged Red Hawk and Gear 3 while he didn't dodge any scabbards attacks and Kaido was not serious against scabbards. Scabbrads took turn attacking Kaido while Snakeman hit Kaido alone and made Kaido unable to react. Kaido had to use Future Sight because he can't react to SNakeman. He tried to dodge Snakeman. That's not the case against scabbards. Only Snakeman made Kaido cannot react like that. Kaido dodged Zoro because he sensed Oden's presence. You think Kaido will purposely not to dodge when he was fighting someone he admitted he used his full power on since Oden? He was using Future Sight because he tried so hard to dodge Snakeman attacks. If he didn't try to dodge then what's the point of using Future Sight?

Saying scabbards blitzed Kaido when they used team attacks is as dumb as saying Kamazo blitzed Zoro thanks to Gyukimaru.

Try to come up with a better lie.

Meaning l kata getting the same treatment as pre rooftop luffy did lol

Anyone who scales to Snakeman in speed cannot get that kind of treatment and will blitz Kaido instead.

 

[LaGOAT]

Not when Kaido was fighting Snakeman Luffy since he admitted Luffy was the first person to make hi his full power moreover Kaido dodged Red Hawk and Gear 3 while he didn't dodge any scabbards attacks and Kaido was not serious against scabbards. Scabbrads took turn attacking Kaido while Snakeman hit Kaido alone and made Kaido unable to react. Kaido had to use Future Sight because he can't react to SNakeman. He tried to dodge Snakeman. That's not the case against scabbards. Only Snakeman made Kaido cannot react like that. Kaido dodged Zoro because he sensed Oden's presence. You think Kaido will purposely not to dodge when he was fighting someone he admitted he used his full power on since Oden? He was using Future Sight because he tried so hard to dodge Snakeman attacks. If he didn't try to dodge then what's the point of using Future Sight?

Saying scabbards blitzed Kaido when they used team attacks is as dumb as saying Kamazo blitzed Zoro thanks to Gyukimaru.

Try to come up with a better lie.



Anyone who scales to Snakeman in speed cannot get that kind of treatment and will blitz Kaido instead.

My guy kaido was toying with luffy until gear 5th bro lol hence why luffy Lost 3 times. Ur not understanding the point kaido takes hits in general becuase he is overconfident with his durability. he doesn’t need to dodge every hit when he just can just tank it lol I mean why didn’t he just dodge G4 luffy if he dodge red hawk? G4 luffy>red hawk right? Bro base luffy with Acoc was blitzing kaido for a moment. Rooftop snakeman luffy>> wci snakeman luffy bro

 

[BlackTiger]

My guy kaido was toying with luffy until gear 5th bro lol

Baseless he admitted Luffy was the first person who forced him to use his full power since Oden and we know how Kaido would fight Oden.

why luffy Lost 3 times.

Kaido also did not kill Kinemon. Most villains do not kill in this series.

Ur not understanding the point kaido takes hits in general becuase he is overconfident with his durability.

Why did ge dodge Red Hawk, Gear 3, and dodge lighning attack from Luffy, used Future Sight to dodge Snakeman? Why would Kaido purposely take an attack he could dodge fighting someone he admitted he used his full power on since Oden?

he doesn’t need to dodge every hit when he just can just tank it

Dodged Red Hawk, Gear 3, Snakeman and he admitted Luffy was the first person to make him his full power on sicne Oden. Kaido nottrying not to dodge goes against kaido statement

why didn’t he just dodge G4 luffy if he dodge red hawk? G4 luffy>red hawk thght?

Boundman is much faster than Red Hawk reread Dressrosa. So he can't dodge it.

Bro base luffy with Acoc was blitzing kaido for moment.

Blitzed nameless Kaido's swing. Still got blitzed by Thunder Bagua that means rooftop Luffy is still known as someone who got blitzed by Thunder Bagua. No speed boost. Let me know when Luffy blitzed fresh Thunder Bagua from fresh Kaido.

Rooftop snakeman luffy>> wci snakeman luffy bro

Only in ap not in speed.

You can repeat Kaido purposely not to dodge but if you can't address how that goes against his statement that Luffy was the first person to make him go all out since Oden, your statement that Kaido purposely took an attack he could dodge is baseless nothing but a headcannon.

I listed many examples that Kaido tried to dodge but you ignored them all. You are back to using baseless argument Kaido purposely not trying to dodge an attack of someone he admitted he used his full power on since Oden.

 

[LaGOAT]

Baseless he admitted Luffy was the first person who forced him to use his full power since Oden and we know how Kaido would fight Oden.


Kaido also did not kill Kinemon. Most villains do not kill in this series.



Why did ge dodge Red Hawk, Gear 3, and dodge lighning attack from Luffy, used Future Sight to dodge Snakeman? Why would Kaido purposely take an attack he could dodge fighting someone he admitted he used his full power on since Oden?



Dodged Red Hawk, Gear 3, Snakeman and he admitted Luffy was the first person to make him his full power on sicne Oden. Kaido nottrying not to dodge goes against kaido statement



Boundman is much faster than Red Hawk reread Dressrosa. So he can't dodge it.



Blitzed nameless Kaido's swing. Still got blitzed by Thunder Bagua that means rooftop Luffy is still known as someone who got blitzed by Thunder Bagua. No speed boost. Let me know when Luffy blitzed fresh Thunder Bagua from fresh Kaido.



Only in ap not in speed.

You can repeat Kaido purposely not to dodge but if you can't address how that goes against his statement that Luffy was the first person to make him go all out since Oden, your statement that Kaido purposely took an attack he could dodge is baseless nothing but a headcannon.

I listed many examples that Kaido tried to dodge but you ignored them all. You are back to using baseless argument Kaido purposely not trying to dodge an attack of someone he admitted he used his full power on since Oden.

U keep bringing kaido was using full power against luffy Can u show me the panel when he said this?

 

[BlackTiger]

Can u show me the panel when he said this?

Vivre Card states Luffy was the first person to make Kaido use his full power since Oden.

 

[Fox666]

The plot required Kaido to use his slower attacks against Luffy therefore Luffy could keep up with hybrid Kaido.

The plot required Luffy to keep up with hybrid Kaido's speed therefore Kaido was not allowed to use Thunder Bagua since Kaido blitzed Luffy whenever he used Thunder Bagua.

What are you talking about

Luffy did dodge Thunder Bagua

The power level dictated by the author in the manga is built by the structure which has been established --> getting stronger after beating a strong enemy. So if Luffy got stronger after he beat Katakuri in a tough fight, the same thing could be said for Katakuri as well he got stronger after his tough fight with Luffy.

Luffy got stronger from Shells Town to Alabasta because he kept fighting strong enemies. You want that only apply for Luffy but it does not apply for Katakuri because it does not suit your agenda?

Nothing has ever been "estabilished" with power ups. It's whatever the authors wants.

Luffy and his crew keep getting stronger. This happens even without any relevant fight, like Zoro who barely did anything post-timeskip then defeated King. It's like that because they are the main characters.

Katakuri has mostly disappeared, and his powerlevel is irrelevant. Maybe if he shows up again like Lucci, he will have a random power-up.

 

[BlackTiger]

What are you talking about

Luffy did dodge Thunder Bagua

From crying mode Kaido which was a nerf. Chapter 1042 Luffy got blitzed by Thunder Bagua.

Nothing has ever been "estabilished" with power ups. It's whatever the authors wants.

Luffy and his crew keep getting stronger. This happens even without any relevant fight, like Zoro who barely did anything post-timeskip then defeated King. It's like that because they are the main characters.

Katakuri has mostly disappeared, and his powerlevel is irrelevant. Maybe if he shows up again like Lucci, he will have a random power-up.

The author want characters to get stronger after they experience a hard battle. That's why Luffy got stronger during 2 years by beating 500 animals. BB said Luffy haki got stronger in Impel Down. That's only possible if luffy kept beating strong opponents.

Zoro's power up is suited to fight against King since Zoro's power up is CoC coating which could bypass his lunarian durability. And Zoro improved his armament after he got Enma. Not because he randomly got stronger without dong anything.

Katakuri's power level is relevant since that's how Oda built a power up structure in One Piece. Not only SH got stronger by beating strong opponents. You have no argument that other characters cannot get stronger by fighting strong opponents.

 

[Fox666]

From crying mode Kaido which was a nerf. Chapter 1042 Luffy got blitzed by Thunder Bagua.

Why would crying mode be a nerf?


Luffy was almost passing out of exhaustion by the time Kaido hit him in chapter 1042, besides I think occasionally Kaido will manage to land a hit.

And despite Luffy being extremely exhausted, and getting hit a few times by Thunder Bagua during that fight, he was still standing... isn't that a clear difference from the begging of Wano which 1 attack equals game over?

 

[BlackTiger]

Why would crying mode be a nerf?

Because all Luffy did before fighting Kaido last time was eating meat. Eating meat did not make him faster. If that Luffy tagged Thunder bagua Kaido that means crying mode was a nerf.

Luffy was almost passing out of exhaustion by the time Kaido hit him in chapter 1042, besides I think occasionally Kaido will manage to land a hit.

He still reacted to Thunder Bagua and got blitzed. Boundman Luffy still got blitzed by sober Thunder Bagua.

And despite Luffy being extremely exhausted, and getting hit a few times by Thunder Bagua during that fight, he was still standing... isn't that a clear difference from the begging of Wano which 1 attack equals game over?

Kaido was weakened stated by Yamato

 

[Nie Li]

Kaido was weakened stated by Yamato

So you're using the feats of a weakened Kaido to compare him to Katakuri?

I don't even think your stance has any footing but this caught my eye.

It's okay to argue Katakuri is better at something than Kaido. For example, we could argue that he's better at using FS than him, as he did it more consistently and as a trademark. However, arguing that Katakuri is faster than Kaido and can blitz him is ridiculous.

 

[Pirate Queen]

How have the mods not interfered here

This is worst than Smoker Top 30

 

[Fox666]

So you're using the feats of a weakened Kaido to compare him to Katakuri?

I don't even think your stance has any footing but this caught my eye.

It's okay to argue Katakuri is better at something like Katakuri. For example, we could argue that he's better at using FS than him, as he did it more consistently and as a trademark. However, arguing that Katakuri is faster than Kaido and can blitz him is ridiculous.

I would say Kaido doesn't use future sight because he doesn't give a shit... but his personality prevents him from using it consistently nonetheless.

You're one of those people who put King over Kaido in durability when King was bleeding from Marco's kick yet you have the nerve to complain when I put Katakuri over Kaido in speed despite there's a clear portrayal difference through Snakeman. As a mod you're biased af.

You sound excessively bitter over such a trivial subject? Well, whatever.

What's the problem with arguing that King has more durability than Kaido? Sadly the series did not make it clear if Zoro ACoC was used to break King's "fire shield" or not.

Marco can also use fire, and it makes sense he can counter King's ability due to it, and is not necessarily due to raw strength.

 

[Nie Li]

.

And I stand by that, depending on how you interpret durability (he's harder to hurt, but can't take as much damage).

.

I'm not a mod.

.

I wonder what Zoro has to do with this all. Your answer to my comment is just ad hominems and nothing related to what I said. Sad.

--- Double Post Merged, Jan 8, 2023, Original Post Date: Jan 8, 2023 ---

I would say Kaido doesn't use future sight because he doesn't give a shit... but his personality prevents him from using it consistently nonetheless.

I was just conceding him the most that I can: that Katakuri is possibly better at FS, simply because Kaido didn't show it off as much. However, I do agree with you that we only lack those feats because he doesn't want to use it.

 

[Pirate Queen]

.

Dude, you are out of control. Chill out

 

[Fox666]

Never stated Marco's fire could counter King's flame. it's an assumption for now. The thing is King was bleeding from Marco who is not a heavy hitter.

It doesn't need to be stated.

Somehow the flames on King's back protect him from attacks. Marco can use flames with weird properties. There's a possible connection there.

You are also just assuming it's due to pure strength (or Haki).

 

[BlackTiger]

It doesn't need to be stated.

Somehow the flames on King's back protect him from attacks. Marco can use flames with weird properties. There's a possible connection there.

You are also just assuming it's due to pure strength (or Haki).

It needs to be stated otherwise it's headcannon. Rengoku Onigiri also bled King a lot while it caused a little drop of blood from Kaido. King blocked Tatsumaki he never tanked Tatsumaki like Kaido did. Never tanked Ashura like kaido did. King being more durable than Kaido is never stated in the manga. Katakuri being much faster than Kaido is obvious when both performed against Snakeman and only 1 was treated as a punching bag,

--- Double Post Merged, Jan 8, 2023, Original Post Date: Jan 8, 2023 ---

@Nie Li Same person who said all Enel's priest can use Future Sight and used a scene of Caesar sneaking on Katakuri (something which is not possible in 1 on 1 fight) as a proof that Future Sight with logia intangibility can be overcome in 1 on 1 battle.

Know not to take you seriously. I'm glad you disagreed with my posts that means I'm heading to the right path.

 

[HereNThere]

@BlackTiger You need to seriously need to take a step back and chill out. You're being unnecessarily rude and confrontational for no reason whatsoever.

 

[BlackTiger]

@BlackTiger You need to seriously need to take a step back and chill out. You're being unnecessarily rude and confrontational for no reason whatsoever.

You're one of the user who liked the post of someone that I argued with regarding Katakuri and Kaido speed. Know not to take you seriously either.

 

[HereNThere]

You're one of the user who liked the post of someone that I argued with regarding Katakuri and Kaido speed. Know not to take you seriously either.

Lol, that is one hell of a grudge you're holding. I'm just going to lock this thread for the moment and come back to all of this nonsense tomorrow if someone doesn't beat me to it.