One Piece Power Level Discussion Thread

[goldb]

Ground Rules for the Power Level Discussion Thread
​

As always, please follow the guidelines set by the Forum Rules that apply across the board.

It's important that discussions from a current chapter are spoiler tagged until 24h have passed from an english release.

• For the sake of constructive discussion, where and when possible please quote/ source any information you provide. Particularly when it comes to conversations carried over from other threads.
• Avoid passive agressive posts, sly remarks or baiting/trolling. You can certainly have fun or disagree without it being at someone's expense.
• Only use anime examples that are canon and as means to provide clarity to pages in the manga. Any other anime material is otherwise non-canon and should only be referenced if it can be proved that the mangaka had approved it.
• We will strive to avoid repetitive discussions and any extensive battle topics will be guided to the Davy Back fight to existing threads or new ones can be made there.

As of now these topics are shelved due to repetitiveness or until the manga can present us with material to further discussions:

1. Shanks v Mihawk
2. Hand to hand fighters > Swordsmen
3. Zoro > Luffy
4. Zoro v Sanji
5. Is Smoker a top 30 character?
6. Mihawk's rank within the story
7. Law having CoC currently.
8. Katakuri > Kaido/Luffy/Etc.

If you wish to continue any of these discussion and remove it from the list, you will need to provide manga material as proof. If there's also anything you think we've covered numerous times, let me know and I'll update the list.

This is the only warning there'll be regarding these ground rules, anything no adhering will be removed. So please just check your posts before posting them.

 

[XXGenesis]

Which Characters do you guys see as Benchmarks/Gatkeeprs?

Ex. I see some people Rank Kinemon, Kanjuro & O-Kiku in the same tier as Jack, Cracker & Doflamingo…

 

[grey matter]

Which Characters do you guys see as Benchmarks/Gatkeeprs?

Ex. I see some people Rank Kinemon, Kanjuro & O-Kiku in the same tier as Jack, Cracker & Doflamingo…

King, Queen and Jack are the benchmark for YC1-YC2-YC3.
That's where these tiers come from, based on my understanding.

 

[albertwv]

Which Characters do you guys see as Benchmarks/Gatkeeprs?

Ex. I see some people Rank Kinemon, Kanjuro & O-Kiku in the same tier as Jack, Cracker & Doflamingo…

LMAO those people are not right..... to place Kiku and Kanjuro same as Jack or Doflamingo. Even I would have a hard time placing Kinemon same as Doflamingo.

I agree with @grey matter , although it initially started with Cracker, Smoothie, and Katakuri (you might even include the YC4 Snack maybe)

High Yonko - Kaido / Old WB / Shanks*
Low Yonko - BM* / BB
High Admiral - Akainu / Kizaru / Aokiji
Low Admiral - Fuji / Green Bull
YC1+ - Yamato / Marcos
YC1 - King
YC2 - Queen
YC3 - Jack
YC 4- Snack / Jimbei
Yonko Executives - Sasaki / Oven / WW / Daifuku / Page 1 / Ulti / Perospero
Senior VA - Buster Call and Marineford VA's (Onigumo, Momonga, Strawberry, Doberman, John Giant, Yamakaji), Vergo, Bastille
Junior VA - Smoker, Maynard


The bench marker I see is the Yonko Commander level. To determine if the character is YC level than I would compare them with these: Doflamingo, Cracker, Jack, and Dressrosa G4 Luffy.
Whoever can beat these is at least YC3 or above.
Now for YC2 since it's in the middle it is muddy, so I skip it.
For YC1, it's King and Katakuri. If any character can beat them and depending on how difficult their battle may be, will list them as YC1 or YC1+.
For YC1+, it is reserved for characters who can Mid-Diff a YC1 level and compete against an Admiral or Yonko but not beat them.
Admiral and Yonko levels are close to each other. Personally any Yonko can defeat any Admiral, high-diff. But 2 Admirals would take down 1 Yonko (this is in a fair fight, no volcano magma explosion, no heart sickness, no backstabbing, in a true 1v1)

* I used to place BM over Shanks due to Shanks being the youngest member and giving respect to BM, but after Wano, I knocked BM down to close to BB and Shanks closer to Kaido. I find it hard to believe Shanks losing to Law and Kid.

 

[grey matter]

LMAO those people are not right..... to place Kiku and Kanjuro same as Jack or Doflamingo. Even I would have a hard time placing Kinemon same as Doflamingo.

I agree with @grey matter , although it initially started with Cracker, Smoothie, and Katakuri (you might even include the YC4 Snack maybe)

High Yonko - Kaido / Old WB / Shanks*
Low Yonko - BM* / BB
High Admiral - Akainu / Kizaru / Aokiji
Low Admiral - Fuji / Green Bull
YC1+ - Yamato / Marcos
YC1 - King
YC2 - Queen
YC3 - Jack
YC 4- Snack / Jimbei
Yonko Executives - Sasaki / Oven / WW / Daifuku / Page 1 / Ulti / Perospero
Senior VA - Buster Call and Marineford VA's (Onigumo, Momonga, Strawberry, Doberman, John Giant, Yamakaji), Vergo, Bastille
Junior VA - Smoker, Maynard


The bench marker I see is the Yonko Commander level. To determine if the character is YC level than I would compare them with these: Doflamingo, Cracker, Jack, and Dressrosa G4 Luffy.
Whoever can beat these is at least YC3 or above.
Now for YC2 since it's in the middle it is muddy, so I skip it.
For YC1, it's King and Katakuri. If any character can beat them and depending on how difficult their battle may be, will list them as YC1 or YC1+.
For YC1+, it is reserved for characters who can Mid-Diff a YC1 level and compete against an Admiral or Yonko but not beat them.
Admiral and Yonko levels are close to each other. Personally any Yonko can defeat any Admiral, high-diff. But 2 Admirals would take down 1 Yonko (this is in a fair fight, no volcano magma explosion, no heart sickness, no backstabbing, in a true 1v1)

* I used to place BM over Shanks due to Shanks being the youngest member and giving respect to BM, but after Wano, I knocked BM down to close to BB and Shanks closer to Kaido. I find it hard to believe Shanks losing to Law and Kid.

Yea, I agree with the benchmark, tho old WB should be in meds if he's up there.

Just an issue with the differentiation of tiers - You don't think high admirals and low Yonkos are comparable?
I don't see Akainu losing to Big Mom or Blackbeard for instance.

 

[Core D. Roy]

Which Characters do you guys see as Benchmarks/Gatkeeprs?

Ex. I see some people Rank Kinemon, Kanjuro & O-Kiku in the same tier as Jack, Cracker & Doflamingo…

Well they're all B-tier, except Kiku I now have at high-C, while Kinemon, Kanjuro, Cracker, and Jack are mid-level (IE: not gatekeepers) B-tier, and Doffy definitely is a gatekeeper high B-tier. B-tier gets wacky because S and A are more thoroughly differentiated and far less-populated. The New World is replete with B-tiers of all varieties.

OP Tiers

Four Emperors Top Pirates & Officers World Government Independent Actors Marines Previous Seven Warlords Revolutionary Army Supernovae Strawhat Senior Officers Strawhat Grand Fleet Pirate Underlings Red Scabbards S S Joyboy Rocks (Reversi)** Imu Harald (Contract)** Ryu...

docs.google.com

 

[john ellis]

Why is BM low yonko tier when she has feats of drawing with kaido? Like I get she was given worse portrayal in general but she did get a good showing vs spefically kaido

 

[Aki1991]

Why is BM low yonko tier when she has feats of drawing with kaido? Like I get she was given worse portrayal in general but she did get a good showing vs spefically kaido

She was nerved in Wano and was not really beaten. She was pushed down into the lava. Cheating...

 

[grey matter]

Why is BM low yonko tier when she has feats of drawing with kaido? Like I get she was given worse portrayal in general but she did get a good showing vs spefically kaido

She drawed with Kaido in non serious brawl.
It was more like then exchanging blows.

BM's combat feats are quite inferior to Kaido's. I get that some of it is due to Oda's limitations. Big Mom has Kaido level conqueror's haki, physical strength and overall durability.....at least this can be inferred from their "fight" in Onigashima.
But she lacks the CQC, mobility and future sight that Kaido has........having future sight vs not having, not blitzing anyone etc it cannot be just chalked up to Oda's limitation, at some point it adds up.


Plus, even portrayal wise, Kaido has more hype going into him - world's strongest creature, 1v1 bet on Kaido, higher bounty, portrayal of being Luffy's opponent (Luffy always gets the strongest antagonist) etc.
BM also didn't appear in Kaido's "top 5"........with some questionable characters who should've been there (like Garp, Ray, Sengoku etc) , you can at least make the argument that Kaido likely never fought them, but Kaido has a lot of past with BM, and even fought her for a considerable duration prior to raid.

 

[XXGenesis]

@albertwv @grey matter @zetsu banned

Ok so I agree with the Gate Keepers/ Benchmarks.
YC1,YC2,YC3.

YC2 is hard to gauge; We only have Ace & Queen for feats. Which led me to mix in YC3 onto that tier.

I’ve changed that. Now I have a ton of YC4 & Yonkou Officers.

There’s clear distinctions but it gets tricky with comparisons

ex.
Sulong Cat/Dog
Jozu
Jack
Killer
Denjiro
Cracker
Doflamingo

Where’s the line of YC2 & YC3??

Previously I have whole list bottom half of YC2
Currently Sulong Cat/Dog are YC2 everyone else YC3.

 

[kkck]

To me part of the issue there is that marco, jozu and vista seem to be well ahead of the sweet commanders and calamities. Marco and jozu successfully repelled admirals. Marco fought both king and queen rather successfully. By all appearances marco could even damage king past his defense mode. Vista got actual respect from mihawk. Marco also managed to repel at least one big mom attacks. Perhaps even more importantly, big mom had actual respect for marco. A courtesy which she didn't have with katakuri, her own blood. The implication at this point in the story would appear to be that the calamities or sweet commanders don't hold a candle to admirals at all. Admirals were definitely stronger than marco, jozu and vista but they could at least hold them back for a meaningful amount of time.

 

[Core D. Roy]

She drawed with Kaido in non serious brawl.
It was more like then exchanging blows.

They were both out for the kill and brawled to a standstill for several days. I'm not sure how much more directly they can be portrayed as equals without Oda himself appearing on panel, staring directly at the reader, and saying "these two characters are relative equals with no meaningful distance in power and ability between them".

 

[kkck]

I agree, I don't see any reason to think there was a significant difference in strength between big mom and kaido. At the most it would be reasonable to think kaido has a bit of an edge over big mom but otherwise the manga did go out of its way a bit (for the reasons zetsu pointed out) to show both as equals. On top of that, big mom's skillset is actually terrifying. Each of her primary homies is pretty much the equivalent of a very high level devil fruit. In practice big mom controlled the weather, specifically wind and thunder, her fire control via prometheus was absurd, and napoleon was straight up BS AND could use her soul ability to heal herself AND power up. Big mom was erratic and irrational but that's a very different thing from her not living up to the strength her position implies. I can't really think of a non awakened ability that comes close to the sheer versatility and variety big mom got out of her fruit.

 

[Core D. Roy]

I agree, I don't see any reason to think there was a significant difference in strength between big mom and kaido. At the most it would be reasonable to think kaido has a bit of an edge over big mom but otherwise the manga did go out of its way a bit (for the reasons zetsu pointed out) to show both as equals. On top of that, big mom's skillset is actually terrifying. Each of her primary homies is pretty much the equivalent of a very high level devil fruit. In practice big mom controlled the weather, specifically wind and thunder, her fire control via prometheus was absurd, and napoleon was straight up BS AND could use her soul ability to heal herself AND power up. Big mom was erratic and irrational but that's a very different thing from her not living up to the strength her position implies. I can't really think of a non awakened ability that comes close to the sheer versatility and variety big mom got out of her fruit.

Her irrational and erratic nature were only as much of a nerf as Kaidou's insistence on purposefully not using Futuresight because he chooses to face-tank everything that ever comes his way. They were even equally matched with their mental flaws.

 

[kkck]

Her irrational and erratic nature were only as much of a nerf as Kaidou's insistence on purposefully not using Futuresight because he chooses to face-tank everything that ever comes his way. They were even equally matched with their mental flaws.

Maybe I have to check the fight again but wasn't kaido a mostly reasonable fighter when he got serious? I didn't get the impression he was purposely taking hits once it became clear the rookies could actually injure him. I think we can assume that luffy used futuresight through all the fight and kaido used it through at least his final confrontations with luffy.

 

[Core D. Roy]

Maybe I have to check the fight again but wasn't kaido a mostly reasonable fighter when he got serious? I didn't get the impression he was purposely taking hits once it became clear the rookies could actually injure him. I think we can assume that luffy used futuresight through all the fight and kaido used it through at least his final confrontations with luffy.

Luffy was using it the entire time, yeah, but Kaidou seemingly used futuresight that one time just to show Luffy he could- there are dozens of big hits he could've avoided throughout Roofpiece if he had been using futuresight the whole time. The fight only ended in Luffy's favor explicitly because he refused to not purposefully face-tank Vajra Gun. Fighting seriously sure, but when did he ever dodge anything? And no I am not counting Zoro's missed slash, that's a whole bucket of worms I'm not trying to open lol

 

[Pirate Queen]

And no I am not counting Zoro's missed slash, that's a whole bucket of worms I'm not trying to open lol

You called?

 

[Fox666]

Luffy was using it the entire time, yeah, but Kaidou seemingly used futuresight that one time just to show Luffy he could- there are dozens of big hits he could've avoided throughout Roofpiece if he had been using futuresight the whole time. The fight only ended in Luffy's favor explicitly because he refused to not purposefully face-tank Vajra Gun. Fighting seriously sure, but when did he ever dodge anything? And no I am not counting Zoro's missed slash, that's a whole bucket of worms I'm not trying to open lol

I think Kaido's personality may prevent him from using future sight properly

He could do it once during the fight, but could he do it all the time?

 

[Core D. Roy]

I think Kaido's personality may prevent him from using future sight properly

He could do it once during the fight, but could he do it all the time?

He noticeably only did it after being significantly drunk. I've pointed out before as a drunk myself, I wouldn't doubt it if he doesn't have the correct flavor of concentration when sober to pull it off normally. But also the way he used it against Luffy just seemed like a taunt, and then he didn't bother to use it again afterward.

--- Double Post Merged, Feb 3, 2023, Original Post Date: Feb 3, 2023 ---

You called?

BEGONE, PEST!!

 

[albertwv]

Big Mom and Kaido may be portrayed as equals, but feats shown in the manga debunk this. People will blame Oda for not showcasing BM's latent abiliites that supposedly she has same as Kaido's but the truth is, she most likely doesn't have full control of them or have them in general.
Kaido has ACoC and uses it with ease at all times. Kaido has FS. Kaido fights alone. Speed/Blitz fast opponents (G4 Snakema). He was the WSC. He took the brunt of the fight.
BM has ACoC but has only used it once maybe. FS forget it about it. Speed/Blitz, forget about it. She has the strength parallel to Kaido's maybe but not the endurance or speed or destructive power.
I was disappointed that Oda didnt show BM getting hit by any of the Supernova in the roof. She was about to get what she deserved by G4 Boundman, but Kaido quickly defended her.
I was truly hoping Luffy would smack her like he did St. Charlos.

Yea, I agree with the benchmark, tho old WB should be in meds if he's up there.

Just an issue with the differentiation of tiers - You don't think high admirals and low Yonkos are comparable?
I don't see Akainu losing to Big Mom or Blackbeard for instance.

I do think High Admirals and Low Yonkos are comparable. I too dont see Akainu losing to BB and maybe extreme diff-win against BM. I do see him losing to Shanks and Kaido.

To me part of the issue there is that marco, jozu and vista seem to be well ahead of the sweet commanders and calamities. Marco and jozu successfully repelled admirals. Marco fought both king and queen rather successfully. By all appearances marco could even damage king past his defense mode. Vista got actual respect from mihawk. Marco also managed to repel at least one big mom attacks. Perhaps even more importantly, big mom had actual respect for marco. A courtesy which she didn't have with katakuri, her own blood. The implication at this point in the story would appear to be that the calamities or sweet commanders don't hold a candle to admirals at all. Admirals were definitely stronger than marco, jozu and vista but they could at least hold them back for a meaningful amount of time.

Respectively, I see Marco as YC1+, Jozu as YC1, and Vista as YC1/YC2. This is due to how great they fared against the Admirals and Mihawk. Jozu managed to catch Aokiji off-guard in speed and made him bleed. Vista managed to earn praise and clash for awhile with no pressure against Mihawk. I dont see Vista any lower than YC2. I saw Ace as low YC3 due to being young and unexperienced, he was even treated as a child by WB and Shanks, believing he wasnt ready to face BB and this was a BB without Dark DF.
Marco - YC1+
Jozu - YC1
Vista - Low YC1 / High YC2
Ace - Low YC3

 

[XXGenesis]

Respectively, I see Marco as YC1+, Jozu as YC1, and Vista as YC1/YC2. This is due to how great they fared against the Admirals and Mihawk. Jozu managed to catch Aokiji off-guard in speed and made him bleed. Vista managed to earn praise and clash for awhile with no pressure against Mihawk. I dont see Vista any lower than YC2. I saw Ace as low YC3 due to being young and unexperienced, he was even treated as a child by WB and Shanks, believing he wasnt ready to face BB and this was a BB without Dark DF.
Marco - YC1+
Jozu - YC1
Vista - Low YC1 / High YC2
Ace - Low YC3

Damn ppl really don’t give Ace enough credit not even with his hype lol. He went up against BlackBeard are we forgetting this notable feat?? Ace is cooking Queen or Featless Smoothie imo.
Ace should be High YC2 imo. Arguments could even be made that he could defeat Vista.


Jozu YC1 !! Wow, I’ve never seen anyone rate him so high. The Iceberg; Sword Block & tackle were impressive; I think he’s pretty relative to High YC3 & YC2 characters much more than any YC1 character. As even Doflamingo had him pretty helpless in his DF ability.