That's why I gave Natsu's perspective as well. Natsu opted for the one time power up than something he could activate at will. Also Zeref said it in the context of beating him in a fight as well. That's why he said that it'd be better if Natsu had the power to turn into a dragon like Acnologia cause that would allow him to beat him in a fight unlike DF.
Don't think the power of the dead had anything to do with Natsu's rational, that was all Zeref. Natsu originally trained to get that power to fight Acnologia but the immediate threat of Alvarez made him switch priorities to Zeref. And he fully believed the punch erased Zeref because that's what he saw. Doesn't change the fact that Zeref let it happen. Suzaku believed that him and Natsu would be enough against dogramag because of Selene's performance but reality humbled him quickly.
"Like I said, Zeref would be a punching bag if he stood around and did nothing. He knew that DF couldn't kill him and was enjoying the fight, so naturally he would continue fighting." You've kind of lost me on this point. What is the purpose of saying this? I originally said that Zeref was fully confident in fighting DF Natsu even while in base so the notion of DF Natsu being stronger than FH Zeref wasn't valid. Then you said that Zeref would just abuse his immortality and stall until Natsu ran out of strength. Nothing about the way Zeref acted implied he would need to do that. Even before Zeref learned about the nature of Igneel flame Natsu's power, he was impressed with the magic and raw heat it was giving off. Nothing like that happens when he sees DF Natsu's power. Sure he'd be a "punching bag" if he just stood there but that has nothing to do with the point. DF Natsu isn't stronger than Zeref.
Meteor's gimmick is speed alright but that doesn't make it the be all end all of speed in the series. We even have Jet who's entire magic set is speed based, but every relevant character is faster than him. Once again it took just a 2-3x boost in speed for Natsu to go from getting blitzed, to blitzing Jellal.
And Natsu is ultimately weaker than Zeref. His demonstration of his time powers doesn't change that.
Do you really think that'd do much damage? Invel's cold easily overpowered that and it took Natsu a whole chapter to break out of the ice. His actual attacks are way more potent than him just randomly covering the area in flames and someone like Suzaku could withstand his demolition fist without any issues. And that's without flame resistant armor like Erza has.
Dude you are missing the point he's making.
The point is simply that Igneel's residue is special fire that is capable of killing the immortal Zeref. This is the special power that Natsu was saving up, yeah he knew it could do the job.
Either way, I don't understand the point of this comparison to DF Natsu.
Functionally, the Igneel flames also would've likely just achieved the same as DF Natsu did - vap Zeref's body. Only difference here being, Zeref's immortality being bypassed.
This isn't a power thing, more of matchup thing. Even Acno cannot kill Zeref, but can only keep vap'ing his body.
Ultimately, when we look at DF Natsu's standalone feat. He completely vap'd the body of FH Zeref. Let's say Zeref "allowed" it to happen. So what?
The fact still remains that DF Natsu had enough power to vape the entire body of FH Zeref.
While the (next) strongest FT mage Gildarts, only managed to give August a bloody lip with his strongest attack (that bypassed immunity)
FH Zeref >>> base Zeref > Spriggans
DF Natsu's attack power >>> Gildarts > rest of FT
What you mean Jellal's speed ain't special? DF Natsu is the only "good guy" who is faster than meteor Jellal. Look at how his speed has been portrayed consistently throughout the series.
-Took down base Natsu without getting tagged even once.
-Blitzed Jura in GMG, the same Jura who was fast enough to blitz Ogra and was at least as fast as Laxus in the same arc.
-Blitzed Cobra who can mindread, blitzed Racer who has speed magic in Tartarus.
-Blitzed dragon Acno in Alverez, though this could be partly due to Acno jobbing
So yeah, being faster than meteor Jellal means a lot, cause that automatically puts DF Natsu's speed far above every other good guy.
And mind you, this was with a much weaker version of DF than what Natsu is currently capable of.
You can even just see Tartarus to know how much of a boost DF is to his speed. Etherious Mard was so fast that Natsu and buffed Gray together had a hard time even landing hits on him, with Gray being frustrated about being unable to land a single hit.
Once Natsu pulled out DF, he was able to repeatedly land hits on etherious Mard, he got the sole attention of Mard with his speed that allowed Gray to land his attack on Mard.
Not true. The page shows Aldoron laying down with a power down sound effect and highlights that it is the result of Gajeel's attacks. The forest of thorns wasn't even Big Aldoron's doing anyway as it was controlled by the god seed. We also know that every hit Gajeel made on big Aldoron was affecting the God Seed in a significant way.
Natsu couldn't hit him prior to this.
Let's analyze this page.
Gajeel: What the hell, I couldn't do anything
Why would he say that? Cause he noticed that he did nothing to Aldoron, zero damage.
Brandish: I wouldn't say that
Why would he say that? Cause she sees Aldoron lying down
* sees Aldoron lying down *
Gajeel: see that!
Thinks he actually did something
*Aldoron proceeds to spam thorns on his body*
This sequence shows that Aldo was preparing an attack to deal with the enemies standing on his body.
How is he supposed to do that when he is "sleeping" like you said he was?
At best, it managed to give dragon Aldo a slight discomfort while not dealing any real damage itself.
Also, you do realize that the panel you posted was BEFORE Gajeel vs Aldo concluded right?
Read the page.
Aldo: "is something happening outside?"
The context is because there is some "earthquake" caused by Gajeel punching dragon Aldo.
If what Gajeel did to dragon Aldo would've nerfed human Aldo, Mashima would've said it, as he did when the God seeds were going down.
That's also a pillar. The magic power controlled by God Seed Aldoron was shooting up through the city they were under as he was being defeated. This happened before with Doom but to a lesser extent since doom didn't control as much of Aldoron's magic as God seed Aldoron did.
. The sequence of events is actually what leads me to believe the first pillar isn't Natsu's attack.
On this page Natsu's attack ends and we get some dialogue from Aldoron. And this is what we see on the very next page.
The first pillar is still shooting along with the others well after Natsu's attack ends.
What kind of mental gymnastics is this?
That swirly thing you posted
after Doom went down, doesn't REMOTELY look similar to the "pillar" that came when Natsu blew a hole through human Aldo. It also didn't cause
any destruction (the FT fodders were right in that area and took no damage), nor did it blow a hole through dragon Aldoron.
Just see the same pages you posted.
Why is the "central pillar" looking VASTLY DIFFERENT from the rest?
Why did that "central pillar" appear in the same time Natsu attacked human Aldo, while OTHERS DIDN'T?
Why would only this pillar appear while human Aldo was alive but dying, while the swirly thing appeared AFTER doom died?
- Natsu produces a fire raider 1000 times more powerful than a FDK Punch :
No, as you point out, the fire raider that destroys the whole city is due to the death of Aldoron God Seed by repercussions to the destruction of the seal, as the death of Doom producing the same effect. Unless you explain to me how the fire pillar can be maintained while Natsu’s attack has stopped the front page. Natsu has just produced enough power to disintegrate the Seed, as Jellal did with his for example. I think Raiko could do the same as result for exemple.
Wrong.
Aldo seed didn't die in that panel.
After Aldo seed died, countless pillars starts popping out.
Those countless pillars look identical, with the exception of the central one which came when Natsu punched him. The central one appeared before those pillars appeared too.
Meaning, it clearly wasn't the pillars that exploded from dragon Aldo, that happened after the human Aldo died.
Stop the mental gymnastics.
Lol at "Laxus or Jellal would've done the same"
Absolutely ridiculous that you made this argument.
Actual human Aldo >>>>>>>>> the grunt god seeds. What Natsu faced was essentially akin to the human version of the Aldoron. In the same way there is human Ignia, Selene, Merc etc.
Man, you guys would pretend like Erza would still be stronger than DF Natsu after Natsu 1v1 Ignia. SMH
He could even stop him with just a glare when he really wanted to.
Also there's nothing that indicates he needed time magic to recover from that. Acnologia is much stronger than DF Natsu and Zeref was convinced that Acnologia wouldn't be able to kill him and would instead just torture him for eternity. Perhaps the time magic made the recovery a bit faster but Zeref would still come back from it regardless. Also there isn't really anything indicating that Zeref's defense dramatically increased from before. Natsu's regular punches could still work just like before. Fairy Heart gave him access to infinite magic and he used that to fuel Neo eclipse. If he had been using that power to buff his overall stats, Natsu wouldn't have been able to keep up.
On this page Natsu's attack ends and we get some dialogue from Aldoron. And this is what we see on the very next page.
The first pillar is still shooting along with the others well after Natsu's attack ends.
