One Piece Power Level Discussion Thread

[goldb]

Ground Rules for the Power Level Discussion Thread
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As always, please follow the guidelines set by the Forum Rules that apply across the board.

It's important that discussions from a current chapter are spoiler tagged until 24h have passed from an english release.

• For the sake of constructive discussion, where and when possible please quote/ source any information you provide. Particularly when it comes to conversations carried over from other threads.
• Avoid passive agressive posts, sly remarks or baiting/trolling. You can certainly have fun or disagree without it being at someone's expense.
• Only use anime examples that are canon and as means to provide clarity to pages in the manga. Any other anime material is otherwise non-canon and should only be referenced if it can be proved that the mangaka had approved it.
• We will strive to avoid repetitive discussions and any extensive battle topics will be guided to the Davy Back fight to existing threads or new ones can be made there.

As of now these topics are shelved due to repetitiveness or until the manga can present us with material to further discussions:

1. Shanks v Mihawk
2. Hand to hand fighters > Swordsmen
3. Zoro > Luffy
4. Zoro v Sanji
5. Is Smoker a top 30 character?
6. Mihawk's rank within the story
7. Law having CoC currently.
8. Katakuri > Kaido/Luffy/Etc.

If you wish to continue any of these discussion and remove it from the list, you will need to provide manga material as proof. If there's also anything you think we've covered numerous times, let me know and I'll update the list.

This is the only warning there'll be regarding these ground rules, anything no adhering will be removed. So please just check your posts before posting them.

 

[BlackTiger]

Made a reasonable reply on another post, figured I tackle him on this. My mistake.

@BlackTiger
You have a lot I want to reply to and a lot I don’t. Because I’m not getting how you can gauge the speed of an illustartion without context or narrative to compare them.

Snakeman vs Kaido…..Snakeman’s Hydra is basicslly Gum Gum battling Gun via Snakeman mode; Luffy never used this attack against Katakuri; Katakuri was dodging regular Snakeman Punches…..Kaido doesn’t need FS as a Brawler but when he did he got out of the assault & Blitz’d Snakeman directly he ate him…

On top of Luffy the following arc who just lost to Kaido, learned ACoA and had weeks to train. Used FS & still got Blitz by base Kaido….G5 Luffy was blitz’d by Kaido….A stronger Luffy than in WCI…A Luffy that’s made more progress in reaching the top of the pirate world. Was still blitz…

0 proof that Hydra is faster than Snakeman regular punches. Hydra is just Jet Culverin with AdvCoC. Its not faster than Jet Culverin without AdvCoC. It blitzed Kaido so Katakuri blitzes Kaido too.

How did Kaido blitz Snakeman? He dodged Snakeman via FS and transforming into dragon then bit Snakeman while Snakeman pulled back his arm then stretched his arm again.

Did Katakuri blitz Snakeman when he dodged Snakeman like Kaido did then hit Snakeman before Snakeman pulled his arm?

why are you running from this question I already asked you this before.

Kaifo bit Snakeman after he dodged his attack. Its not a blitz when you land the attack after you dodge your foe attack. Its only a blitz if you and your opponent attack each other at the same time but your attack hit first it shows your attack is faster therefore it is a blitz

Kaido is a brawler pre chapter 1009. In chapter 1009 he dodged Red Hawk which shows post chapter 1009, if he cannot dodged then the attacks were too fast for him.

Gear 5 is much slower than Snakeman it does not elevate Gear 5 speed. It elevates Snakeman if Kaido who got blitzed by Snakeman outpaced gear 5.

Rooftop Luffy dodged Thunder Bagua. Much faster Katakuri can dodge Thunder Bagua completely. Thunder Bagua<<<Buzzcut Mochi in speed. Buzzcut Mochi outpaced Snakeman and matched King Cobra Snakeman fastest attack. Kaido doesn't have attack as fast as Buzzcut Mochi.

Based on what post Udon Luffy has better stats and haki from fighting fodders ?

By that argument Egghead Luffy has better stats and haki after pushing his body fighting Kaido which makes Kizaru>>>Kaido.

He reached top tier pirate by learning AdvCoC which does not make him faster. That Luffy except Snakeman will still get blitzed by Buzz Cut Mochi.

Katakuri has FS only the mightiest can have so your argument is moot.

Its pointless that you kept bringing up Thunder Bagua Kaido to make a point that Kaido blitzed base FS Luffy when I can also bring up Buzz Cut Mochi that outpaced Snakeman and matched Snakeman fastest attack, King Cobra to make a point that Buzz Cut Mochi is faster than Thunder Bagua

Base FS Luffy with AdvCoC still get dogwalked by Katakuri since AdvCoC doesn't increase his chance to hit Katakuri.

--- Double Post Merged, Nov 4, 2023, Original Post Date: Nov 4, 2023 ---

Yamato has AdvCoC that doesn't put her above admirals who lack it. Any admirals destroys Yamato.

--- Double Post Merged, Nov 4, 2023 ---

Actually I showed you how Katakuri is faster than FS Kaido amped with Snakeman speed

So did Katakuri blitz Snakeman or not?

This is Snakeman Luffy stretched his arm then kaido dodged

This is Katakuri also dodged Snakeman after Snakeman stretched his arm

Back to Snakeman vs Kaido. Snakeman pulled his arm back then stretched his arm again by the time Dragon Kaido rushed toward Snakeman. This is evident Snakeman pulled his arm back because the spark around Luffy's shoulder indicates Luffy stretched his arm which is only possible if he already pulled his arm back from previous page when Kaido turned into dragon to dodge Snakeman.

Go back to Snakeman vs katakuri. Unlike against Kaido. Snakeman didn't have the time to pull his arm back. Katakuri hit Snakeman before Snakeman could pull his arm back.

Katakuri looked much faster than FS Kaido amped with Snakeman pattern which boosts his speed. If Kaido blitzed Snakeman then Katakuri blitzed Snakeman which is not the case.

Then instead of debunking it, you repeated the same dead argument FS Kaido blitzed Snakeman (which is even false) to make a point that Kaido with FS is faster than Katakuri (something I already debunked) do you have amnesia?

 

[Rein Avara]

Brain cells slowly rotting, what is this never ending nonsense, are we truly comparing a Luffy who was barely YC1 vs a Luffy who was struggling to fight on Yonkou level and how his opponents dealt with his abilities as if to prove what?

Katakuri would get the same treatment if not worse than Luffy if he took his place during that raid.

 

[BlackTiger]

Brain cells slowly rotting what is this never ending nonsense, are we truly comparing a Luffy who was barely YC1 vs a Luffy who was struggling to fight on Yonkou level and how his opponents dealt with his abilities as if to prove what?

Katakuri would get the same treatment if not worse than Luffy if he took his place during that raid.

We are comparing Snakeman speed in Wano with Katakuri or Snakeman speed in WCI. If Wano Snakeman blitzed Kaido then Katakuri blitzes Kaido too since there's no proof that Luffy base stats improved that much after Udon unless you also agree that Luffy base stats also improved significantly after Wano which makes Kizaru>>>Kaido.

No he doesn't. Kaido got bodybagged by base Luffy. Katakuri is much faster than base Luffy. If Kaido got blitzed by Snakeman, he got blitzed by Katakuri as well. There's no argument Kaido without FS can touch Katakuri. He needs a lucky hit to touch Katakuri. I give the benefits of the doubt FS Kaido despite much slower than Katakuri has 50/50 chance to hit him to eventually beat him however, Kaido without FS has 0% chance to hit Katakuri. He needs island aoe level attack which is impossible to dodge (his strongest attack) to land a hit.

Based on what Wano Snakeman who fought Kaido outside ap>>>WCI Snakeman who fought Katakuri?

Is Egghead Luffy base stats>>>Wano Luffy base stats which makes Kizaru>>>Kaido?

 

[DeadlyBeast]

This is Katakuri's future in the story -

You just have to accept the story is headed to a place where YC level fighters are no longer plot relevant as villains in the story.They will just be side characters from this point on. No amount of Katakuri is fast this and that will mean anything anymore.

 

[XXGenesis]

@BlackTiger Your 1st Paragraph is a tombstone to your entire argument. I concede.

New Topic. The Gorosei

The Gorosei use to be on many fans Top Tier list until sometime during the TS the community decided to sideline the group kinda similar to Dragon; To wait and see what they are truly capable of.

Gosh Darnnit I wanted to be the standout so bad and just keep ranking them but I went with the flow. However I always knew they had to have some combat prowess.

How strong do you think the members of the Gorosei are? I’m speculating low Admiral level with unique hax/annoying abilities

 

[DeadlyBeast]

@BlackTiger Your 1st Paragraph is a tombstone to your entire argument. I concede.

New Topic. The Gorosei

The Gorosei use to be on many fans Top Tier list until sometime during the TS the community decided to sideline the group kinda similar to Dragon; To wait and see what they are truly capable of.

Gosh Darnnit I wanted to be the standout so bad and just keep ranking them but I went with the flow. However I always knew they had to have some combat prowess.

How strong do you think the members of the Gorosei are? I’m speculating low Admiral level with unique hax/annoying abilities

At this point I wouldn't be surprised if being Admiral level is the floor for them. I'm assuming at least one them is Yonko level if not even higher like Garp/Roger.

I think you're right in that they'll all have hax abilities. Probably all some form of mythical zoan that makes them gods similar to Luffy. In fact based on G5 hax they probably will be ridiculous powers too.

 

[Rein Avara]

My precious brain cells forever lost in the ether

Anyhoo I agree with @XXGenesis new topic.

I'd place the gorosei at around admiral level or maybe around old man trio level. Reason being I don't know who would fight these freaks if they're all high admiral or even Yonkou level.

 

[kkck]

The plot is headed for a massive free for all winner take all war with multiple sides. If such a war involves the WG and multiple yonko and the revolutionary army then there's plenty of folk to oppose the admirals and gorosei.

 

[BlackTiger]

This is Katakuri's future in the story -

You just have to accept the story is headed to a place where YC level fighters are no longer plot relevant as villains in the story.They will just be side characters from this point on. No amount of Katakuri is fast this and that will mean anything anymore.

You forgot your idol Zoro is weezing, huffing against Stussy leftover?

Katakuri has a role to lead BMP. With Pudding getting kidnapped, he has more reason to lead BMP. Unlike King who is rotting in prison now. Even in the cover story where he failed, Katakuri beat 3 Germa single handedly who each is more durable than pre exoskeleton Sanji while King and Queen combined needed more efforts to beat less durable pre exoskeleton Sanji in chapter 1022.

Using non FS Katakuri in the cover story won't help your argument when my entire argument is FS Katakuri being faster than FS Kaido. If you want me to concede then you need to find panels of FS Katakuri takes L from someone without FS/Snakeman speed in 1 on 1 fight.

I know it's impossible to downplay FS Katakuri he is too broken being equal to Snakeman who kept embarrassing top tiers is not easy to downplay.

He's not relevant if someone without FS/Snakeman speed can hit Snakeman. Kaido with FS and Snakeman speed boost showed inferior performance. Kizaru was forced to block and had amp himself to be faster to hit Snakeman.

The non relevant ones are the likes of King or Marco. Ryokugyu just showed you don't need AdvCoC to beat King. King is not relevant anymore because his gimmick is easily overcame by Ryokugyu. King just showed the limit of Marco's regeneration. Almost anyone can outlast Marco's regeneration if they have huge stamina. That how irrelevant King and Marco are because it's so easy to overcome their gimmicks.

Now it's still impossible to everyone to overcome Katakuri's gimmick since from Snakeman we saw that Kaido had to use FS and amp his speed via Snakeman pattern to hit Snakeman. Kizaru the fastest character in the series had to amp himself to land a hit on Snakeman so yeah Katakuri being fast actually helps him to stay relevant since thanks to his speed he can keep up with Snakeman and had a draw with Snakeman unlike King and Marco who ost the fight so any feats of Snakeman can be used to hype Katakuri.

Since King and Marco lost, it's impossible to wank those who beat them to wank King and Marco since anyone who can keep up with those who beat them can also trash them. On the other hand Katakuri having a draw with Snakeman makes it easy to hype him whenever Snakeman fights a top tier.

 

[XXGenesis]

My precious brain cells forever lost in the ether

Anyhoo I agree with @XXGenesis new topic.

I'd place the gorosei at around admiral level or maybe around old man trio level. Reason being I don't know who would fight these freaks if they're all high admiral or even Yonkou level.

The plot is headed for a massive free for all winner take all war with multiple sides. If such a war involves the WG and multiple yonko and the revolutionary army then there's plenty of folk to oppose the admirals and gorosei.

Agreed on the Free for All. Or All vs World Government; With their own agendas & battles between pirates.

The WG has an overwhelming force regardless.
The Gorosei I speculate to be more comparable to the Admirals than any 1st Mate. Then the Gods Knights & The 4 Admirals with a whole bunch of Fodder…The Yonkou’s are still outmatched by the numbers

 

[Fox666]

What's the problem with Kizaru > Kaido?

 

[McNuss]

What's the problem with Kizaru > Kaido?

Alcohol vs Marihuana really.

 

[Pirate Queen]

What's the problem with Kizaru > Kaido?

It's like saying what's the problem with 1+1=6... it doesn't make sense and is clearly wrong

 

[XXGenesis]

What's the problem with Kizaru > Kaido?

Toxic answer: Yonkou’s > Admirals. .

Real Answer: Star Gun immobilized Kizaru.
Very Similar attack on Kaido only hurt him bad. He proceeded to still fight.

 

[BlackTiger]

Toxic answer: Yonkou’s > Admirals. .

Real Answer: Star Gun immobilized Kizaru.
Very Similar attack on Kaido only hurt him bad. He proceeded to still fight.

How is yonko>admiral when you said that post Udon Luffy is much stronger than pre Udon Luffy in every stats? Shouldn't Egghead Luffy>>>Wano Luffy in every stats too so yonko<<<admiral therefore Kaido<<<Kizaru because much weaker Luffy fought yonko Kaido while admirals (Kizaru and Akainu) would fight much stronger Luffy (after Luffy fought yonko Kaido).

Since post Udon Luffy>>>pre Udon Luffy in every stats then Eghead Luffy>>>Wano Luffy in every stats too. White Star Gun is much stronger than any attacks Wano Luffy used on Kaido. Kizaru took a stronger attack while Kaido took a weaker attack from Gear 5.

At least be consistent with your arguments.

 

[XXGenesis]

How is yonko>admiral when you said that post Udon Luffy is much stronger than pre Udon Luffy in every stats? Shouldn't Egghead Luffy>>>Wano Luffy in every stats too so yonko<<<admiral therefore Kaido<<<Kizaru because much weaker Luffy fought yonko Kaido while admirals (Kizaru and Akainu) would fight much stronger Luffy (after Luffy fought yonko Kaido).

Since post Udon Luffy>>>pre Udon Luffy in every stats then Eghead Luffy>>>Wano Luffy in every stats too. White Star Gun is much stronger than any attacks Wano Luffy used on Kaido. Kizaru took a stronger attack while Kaido took a weaker attack from Gear 5.

At least be consistent with your arguments.

I don’t understand a word here. It hurts to read. I never said what you are accusing me of saying.

I said Luffy got stronger since WCI & stated the reasons why…..Training for weeks.

G5 vs Kaido is on the same lv as G5 vs Kizaru basically. I don’t recall how much time has passed since Wano but Luffy hasn’t done anything but heal his wounds so at best a stamina increase.


Only Yonkou weaker than some Admirals is Big Mom.
Only Admiral stronger than some Yonkou is Akainu.

Pre TS you could argue Kaido was stronger than Akianu. & Akainu got stronger over the timeskip.

 

[BlackTiger]

I don’t understand a word here. It hurts to read. I never said what you are accusing me of saying.

I said Luffy got stronger since WCI & stated the reasons why…..Training for weeks.

So you agree post Udon Luffy>>>pre Udon Luffy in speed, physical strength, durability, CoO, CoA, CoC because Luffy fought a bunch of fodders in Udon for weeks?

His training was to learn advCoA. Not to boost his speed, physical strength, durability, CoO, CoA. But somehow he also got faster, stronger physically, more durable, stronger CoO and CoA because he fought a bunch of fodders for weeks?

G5 vs Kaido is on the same lv as G5 vs Kizaru basically. I don’t recall how much time has passed since Wano but Luffy hasn’t done anything but heal his wounds so at best a stamina increase.

But Luffy stats from speed, physical strength, durability, CoA, CoO, CoC did not improve even though he fought Kaido pushing his body to his limit?

Are you saying that fighting a bunch of fodders in Udon made Luffy much faster, durable, stronger physically, better haki than what he did fighting Kaido which pushed his body to his limit?

Only Yonkou weaker than some Admirals is Big Mom.
Only Admiral stronger than some Yonkou is Akainu.

Pre TS you could argue Kaido was stronger than Akianu. & Akainu got stronger over the timeskip.

These arguments contradict what you said since you said post Udon Luffy>>>Pre Udon Luffy then Egghead Luffy>>>Wano Luffy therefore Kaido>any admiral is impossible because much weaker Luffy fought yonko while much stronger Luffy would fight admirals (Kizaru and Akainu).

It doesn't make sense fighting a bunch of fodders in Udon boosted Luffy stats from speed, durability, physical strength to haki while fighting Kaido which pushed his body to his limit did not make him faster, more durable, stronger physically after Wano.

Why is it relevant that how much time has passed? Fighting a dozen of ants (fodders in Udon) for 1 year is much easier than fighting a gorilla (Kaido) for 3 hours. No matter how much times had passed from pre Udon to post Udon, Luffy only fought a bunch of fodders in Udon. He can fight those fodders in Udon for 10 years and it won't be as difficult as fighting Kaido for 1 minute so it doesn't make sense how Luffy fighting a bunch of fodders in Udon made him faster, more durable, stronger physically, had better haki while fighting Kaido did not make him faster, more durable, stronger physically and have better haki.

Before fighting Akainu, Luffy fought Kaido, Kizaru, whoever he would fight in Elbaf, possibly BB then Akainu. Would you say fighting a bunch of fodders in Udon made Luffy faster, more durable, stronger physically, had better haki (so any speed feat of Snakeman cannot be given to Katakuri to maintain your fanfiction Kaido is faster than Katakuri) while fighting Kaido, Kizaru, whoever in Elbaf, whoever before Akainu barely improves Luffy's stats and haki? (so you can keep Kaido above admirals agenda).

Let's say for the sake of arguments, 1 month has passed from Luffy fought Kaido until Luffy will finally fight Akainu. Would you still say fighting a bunch of fodders in udon boosted Luffy physical stats and haki while fighting Kaido, Kizaru, whoever in Elbaf, whoever before Akainu did not boost Luffy physical stats and haki?

The amount of time has passed since Luffy fought Kaido does not decide how stronger Luffy would get after Luffy fought Kaido. Actually, the more time has passed since Luffy fought Kaido and recovered, if Luffy did not do anything during those times then Luffy would get rusty.

 

[XXGenesis]

So you agree post Udon Luffy>>>pre Udon Luffy in speed, physical strength, durability, CoO, CoA, CoC because Luffy fought a bunch of fodders in Udon for weeks?

His training was to learn advCoA. Not to boost his speed, physical strength, durability, CoO, CoA. But somehow he also got faster, stronger physically, more durable, stronger CoO and CoA because he fought a bunch of fodders for weeks?



But Luffy stats from speed, physical strength, durability, CoA, CoO, CoC did not improve even though he fought Kaido pushing his body to his limit?

Are you saying that fighting a bunch of fodders in Udon made Luffy much faster, durable, stronger physically, better haki than what he did fighting Kaido which pushed his body to his limit?



These arguments contradict what you said since you said post Udon Luffy>>>Pre Udon Luffy then Egghead Luffy>>>Wano Luffy therefore Kaido>any admiral is impossible because much weaker Luffy fought yonko while much stronger Luffy would fight admirals (Kizaru and Akainu).

It doesn't make sense fighting a bunch of fodders in Udon boosted Luffy stats from speed, durability, physical strength to haki while fighting Kaido which pushed his body to his limit did not make him faster, more durable, stronger physically after Wano.

Why is it relevant that how much time has passed? Fighting a dozen of ants (fodders in Udon) for 1 year is much easier than fighting a gorilla (Kaido) for 3 hours. No matter how much times had passed from pre Udon to post Udon, Luffy only fought a bunch of fodders in Udon. He can fight those fodders in Udon for 10 years and it won't be as difficult as fighting Kaido for 1 minute so it doesn't make sense how Luffy fighting a bunch of fodders in Udon made him faster, more durable, stronger physically, had better haki while fighting Kaido did not make him faster, more durable, stronger physically and have better haki.

Before fighting Akainu, Luffy fought Kaido, Kizaru, whoever he would fight in Elbaf, possibly BB then Akainu. Would you say fighting a bunch of fodders in Udon made Luffy faster, more durable, stronger physically, had better haki (so any speed feat of Snakeman cannot be given to Katakuri to maintain your fanfiction Kaido is faster than Katakuri) while fighting Kaido, Kizaru, whoever in Elbaf, whoever before Akainu barely improves Luffy's stats and haki? (so you can keep Kaido above admirals agenda).

Let's say for the sake of arguments, 1 month has passed from Luffy fought Kaido until Luffy will finally fight Akainu. Would you still say fighting a bunch of fodders in udon boosted Luffy physical stats and haki while fighting Kaido, Kizaru, whoever in Elbaf, whoever before Akainu did not boost Luffy physical stats and haki?

The amount of time has passed since Luffy fought Kaido does not decide how stronger Luffy would get after Luffy fought Kaido. Actually, the more time has passed since Luffy fought Kaido and recovered, if Luffy did not do anything during those times then Luffy would get rusty.

………..?????? Huh. Whatever you say I guess. Yup you’re right.

 

[BlackTiger]

………..?????? Huh. Whatever you say I guess. Yup you’re right.

Do you have reading comprehension issues to get confused like this? Guess I just hit the nerve to expose you like this.

In summary how did Luffy get better physical stats from fighting a bunch of fodders in Udon while Luffy physical stats remained constant after fighting Kaido which pushed his body to his limit?

Is it just your wish that post Udon Luffy is much stronger than pre udon Luffy so Snakeman speed feats blitzing Kaido cannot be given to Katakuri while Egghead Luffy is as strong as Wano Luffy so you can still wank Kaido above admirals? Make it make sense.

 

[kkck]

Agreed on the Free for All. Or All vs World Government; With their own agendas & battles between pirates.

The WG has an overwhelming force regardless.
The Gorosei I speculate to be more comparable to the Admirals than any 1st Mate. Then the Gods Knights & The 4 Admirals with a whole bunch of Fodder…The Yonkou’s are still outmatched by the numbers

I don't think the scenario can be everyone vs the world government. The WG is by far the largest and strongest individual faction and with a good margin at that but if everyone was truly against them even they should be outmatched. In this case "everyone" would be the 4 yonko, the revolutionaries and then every single pirate out there who will think they just might get lucky enough to pull this off. Let alone that the big mom pirates could still be active and the WB pirate remnants might still make a comeback... I think the chaos of every major and minor pirate being mostly out for themselves is necessary for the WG to have a chance here.