Valhalla vs Leviathan

[V_TheHiddenAxis]

--Who do you think is stronger/end up being stronger?

 

[Anne isn't a TT]

If I had to guess, it would be Levi. In 622, where Rei transfers his memory to Levi, and in 625 where we see Rei with 3 eggs. From Rei attire, it seems levi was first born. Maybe he was the ultimate masterpiece of Rei.
I even believe some powers that originally belong to Levi were transferred to 3 WDs. That's why Levi is so hung up on 3 WDs.

 

[Demonspeed]

Valhalla is much stronger. Leviathan has more potential because Baam can absorb the others's powers to buff him.

 

[Shadowlord123]

Not too sure. Leviathan has a lot of gas:

• Baam thought it would be a sin to the world to unleash him from the Suspendium.
• Leviathan boasted about having possessed strength that towered above everyone, including the Ancients and even the Irregulars (though he got punished and sealed by Traum at the end).
• He one-shot the Odd-Eyed Cobra (BH Tier) while still being sealed away and as collateral damage.
• He gave Baam enough power to make Dumas (Regent Tier) go all-out, and even give him a bit of damage through that form. This is while still being technically sealed away. Ergo, a small fraction of his power (or should I say Traumerei's?).
• Traumerei gave up on trying to control it, while he could control Valhalla.

I can see a fully unsealed Leviathan ending up as stronger. Quite frankly, I don't think Valhalla will end up that close to FH level anyway. Traumerei should only be FH level when you take into consideration all of his abilities. Basically: Traumerei + all his countless Shinheuh (including Valhalla) ~ FH level. Among the countless Shinheuh, you need to take into account that they have infinite lives as long as Traum is alive + can be fused to further enhance their power. Valhalla on his own would only be a fraction of all that (a meaningful fraction most likely, but still a fraction).

 

[Demonspeed]

Not too sure. Leviathan has a lot of gas:

• Baam thought it would be a sin to the world to unleash him from the Suspendium.
• Leviathan boasted about having possessed strength that towered above everyone, including the Ancients and even the Irregulars (though he got punished and sealed by Traum at the end).
• He one-shot the Odd-Eyed Cobra (BH Tier) while still being sealed away and as collateral damage.
• He gave Baam enough power to make Dumas (Regent Tier) go all-out, and even give him a bit of damage through that form. This is while still being technically sealed away. Ergo, a small fraction of his power (or should I say Traumerei's?).
• Traumerei gave up on trying to control it, while he could control Valhalla.

I can see a fully unsealed Leviathan ending up as stronger. Quite frankly, I don't think Valhalla will end up that close to FH level anyway. Traumerei should only be FH level when you take into consideration all of his abilities. Basically: Traumerei + all his countless Shinheuh (including Valhalla) ~ FH level. Among the countless Shinheuh, you need to take into account that they have infinite lives as long as Traum is alive + can be fused to further enhance their power. Valhalla on his own would only be a fraction of all that (a meaningful fraction most likely, but still a fraction).

Leviathan seems simply way too boastful. As you said, he claimed that he was even superior to Irregulars. But in the recent chapters, he admits that they are beings who are beyond him and shouldn't be in this Tower.

I remember when he was introduced, we were even speculating if he was stronger than Guardians because of his words.

 

[Lonatian]

Valhalla will be stronger. All beasts will be stronger if Traumerei control them. It will be immortal too, if Tram hadn't died, it wouldn't have died.


As for Leviathan, it is obvious that he has to borrow the power of Traum Its ability seems not strong like it said.
Of course, it is not as immortal as Varhala.

 

[Anne isn't a TT]

As for Leviathan, it is obvious that he has to borrow the power of Traum Its ability seems not strong like it said.
Of course, it is not as immortal as Varhala.

Not just levi, all 3 WDs has borrowed the power of Rei. Did U read the chapter where Levi was introduced? He says unless the one he hates which is Rei, he won't die. There could be 2 reason for his ability. One he gained it on his own, which I don't think is practical.

The second one is since Levi has been fueled with Rei power, and knows sth about shinsu black hole sphere [SBHS] he doesn't need to be in Rei's territory which is SBHS, to revive. He can just do it on his own unlike other divine sea animals who needs to be in Rei territory. This could be a foreshadowing of what Rei said in 575.

 

[Lonatian]

Not just levi, all 3 WDs has borrowed the power of Rei. Did U read the chapter where Levi was introduced? He says unless the one he hates which is Rei, he won't die. There could be 2 reason for his ability. One he gained it on his own, which I don't think is practical.

The second one is since Levi has been fueled with Rei power, and knows sth about shinsu black hole sphere [SBHS] he doesn't need to be in Rei's territory which is SBHS, to revive. He can just do it on his own unlike other divine sea animals who needs to be in Rei territory. This could be a foreshadowing of what Rei said in 575.

Have you ever thought Levi isn't in Shinwonryu because the Traumerei don't need him to fight.
In fact, Trau only used Levi to devour his memories.

In addition, it can be recognized that Levi is a living individual. While those other dragons may have died several times. And revived by necromancy.
Maybe for some reason, Traum needs Levi to be alive, not a corpse for him to manipulate.

 

[Anne isn't a TT]

Have you ever thought Levi isn't in Shinwonryu because the Traumerei don't need him to fight.
In fact, Trau only used Levi to devour his memories.

He doesn't need to be. Levi has Rei power which is SBHS. He says himself. That's why he is immortal in a sense. I believe that's the same case for 3 WDs.

addition, it can be recognized that Levi is a living individual. While those other dragons may have died several times. And revived by necromancy.
Maybe for some reason, Traum needs Levi to be alive, not a corpse for him to manipulate.

Do U think kraken isn't alive? If he was just corpse fueled by Rei power, would he be able to solve the maze? It's not just levi who is conscious.

 

[Lonatian]

That's why he is immortal in a sense. I believe that's the same case for 3 WDs.

Leviathan can not immortal if Traumerei doesn't use necromancy. Necromancy is a skill, not Shinwonryu.

Do U think kraken isn't alive? If he was just corpse fueled by Rei power, would he be able to solve the maze? It's not just levi who is conscious.

Kraken, Cobalt are Traum's side for a long time ago. Before Levi.
Obvs, maybe they have not died yet, but they are first pets, they can special like HaeTae.

--- Double Post Merged, Aug 16, 2024, Original Post Date: Aug 16, 2024 ---

You still forgot something. Necromancy make them immortal. Not shinwonryu. His shinwonryu just like a giant fish tank.

 

[Anne isn't a TT]

Leviathan can not immortal if Traumerei doesn't use necromancy. Necromancy is a skill, not Shinwonryu.

Here, Rei explicitly says it's due to all creatures which is SBHS that his divine sea animals are immortal

 

[Lonatian]

Here, Rei explicitly says it's due to all creatures which is SBHS that his divine sea animals are immortal

Is it that difficult to understand?
When Traumerei said this, the author never mentioned necromancy.
His Shiwonryu is a giant fish tank, all of his creatures can reside in it. Apparently Traumerei's statement was just "inside it".

--- Double Post Merged, Aug 16, 2024, Original Post Date: Aug 16, 2024 ---

View media item 28967
He use necromancy to make all his creatures are immortal. And his shinwonryu is a fish tank for them.

--- Double Post Merged, Aug 16, 2024 ---

Reviving in ToG is almost impossible.
Immortality is only for a few individuals.
Remember, the family heads cannot save Amizu no matter what.
So Traumerei's necromancy is forbidden skill. He was even judged guilty by the scales for abusing it.

A creature like Leviathan cannot be immortal. Even Hendo, he begging Admins for immortal.

 

[Demonspeed]

Traumerei used Necromancy on his Shinheuhs and he said he can make them respawn via his Shinwonryu. So that's a special effect of All Creatures along with its power to buff them. Necromancy might be imbued into the technique.

Leviathan did say that he can't die as long as the one he hates is alive but how does it matter? He is a big talker. In the same chapter he claimed he was superior to everyone, FHs included. No reason to believe any of this ATM.

How does immortality even matter for him? He is stuck in Baam. I doubt they age there. People in the Tower can live very long too, it doesn't matter. The Thread Snake has lived for a long time and doesn't look different. We have tons of characters with eternal looks.

 

[maverickframe_19]

Lore wise Leviathan should be stronger as he was not controlled by Traumerei, hence was sealed.
Feat wise what has been shown to us by SIU, has to be Valhalla for now. Based on Gustang's statement.
This can change in the future as Levi needs all three water dragons for his mimesis.
At the end of this arc, Levi > Valhalla.

 

[V_TheHiddenAxis]

Lore wise Leviathan should be stronger as he was not controlled by Traumerei, hence was sealed.
Feat wise what has been shown to us by SIU, has to be Valhalla for now. Based on Gustang's statement.
This can change in the future as Levi needs all three water dragons for his mimesis.
At the end of this arc, Levi > Valhalla.

Agreed

 

[kkck]

Strength is not necessarily a component of whether someone can resist being controlled by traumerei or not. There's a solid chance that the SIU won't even bother giving a reason for why traumerei can't control leviathan.. Of course it's also possible leviathan can't be controlled because of something traumerei put in it when he made it.

 

[Jackjohsnon]

Valhala strength probably due to Lust and Ameuz being such a great catalisty for that feeling, which could have allowed Traumerei to give It more of his power, compared to the other dragons. Now Leviathan is another story. It was the first sea dragon Traumerei had, and while I don't expect It to be as strong as a family head, I don't doubt It's going to be the strongest Shinheuh Traumerei possessed in the past when he had no Valhala.

 

[kkck]

I was a bit confused about the ameuz bit in the chapter. is the implication that ameuz was inside the vines or inside valhalla?

 

[Jackjohsnon]

I was a bit confused about the ameuz bit in the chapter. is the implication that ameuz was inside the vines or inside valhalla?

Valhala.

But not Ameuz herself as her soul, only her corpse.

 

[Demonspeed]

Strength is not necessarily a component of whether someone can resist being controlled by traumerei or not. There's a solid chance that the SIU won't even bother giving a reason for why traumerei can't control leviathan.. Of course it's also possible leviathan can't be controlled because of something traumerei put in it when he made it.

My guess is that it's something like "his rage is so intense that he can't be tamed".

Valhala strength probably due to Lust and Ameuz being such a great catalisty for that feeling, which could have allowed Traumerei to give It more of his power, compared to the other dragons. Now Leviathan is another story. It was the first sea dragon Traumerei had, and while I don't expect It to be as strong as a family head, I don't doubt It's going to be the strongest Shinheuh Traumerei possessed in the past when he had no Valhala.

I kinda forgot that Leviathan was the first. Considering all of this, Valhalla being the strongest, his masterpiece makes even more sense.