One Piece Power Level Discussion Thread

[goldb]

Ground Rules for the Power Level Discussion Thread
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As always, please follow the guidelines set by the Forum Rules that apply across the board.

It's important that discussions from a current chapter are spoiler tagged until 24h have passed from an english release.

• For the sake of constructive discussion, where and when possible please quote/ source any information you provide. Particularly when it comes to conversations carried over from other threads.
• Avoid passive agressive posts, sly remarks or baiting/trolling. You can certainly have fun or disagree without it being at someone's expense.
• Only use anime examples that are canon and as means to provide clarity to pages in the manga. Any other anime material is otherwise non-canon and should only be referenced if it can be proved that the mangaka had approved it.
• We will strive to avoid repetitive discussions and any extensive battle topics will be guided to the Davy Back fight to existing threads or new ones can be made there.

As of now these topics are shelved due to repetitiveness or until the manga can present us with material to further discussions:

1. Shanks v Mihawk
2. Hand to hand fighters > Swordsmen
3. Zoro > Luffy
4. Zoro v Sanji
5. Is Smoker a top 30 character?
6. Mihawk's rank within the story
7. Law having CoC currently.
8. Katakuri > Kaido/Luffy/Etc.

If you wish to continue any of these discussion and remove it from the list, you will need to provide manga material as proof. If there's also anything you think we've covered numerous times, let me know and I'll update the list.

This is the only warning there'll be regarding these ground rules, anything no adhering will be removed. So please just check your posts before posting them.

 

[Darklord#10]

You guys are actually annoying , anyhoo threads locked now go troll elsewhere.

--- Double Post Merged, May 26, 2024, Original Post Date: May 18, 2024 ---

Sooo....

I was asking a legit question. Bring the message back

 

[Rein Avara]

I was asking a legit question. Bring the message back

Naurr move on

 

[DeadlyBeast]

Since it seems inevitable that the Ancient Robot will fight the Gorosei, how long do people wager it will last? Also how strong do people expect it to be?

This is the first time we'll have seen a pure machine fight, and of all possible enemies it's some of the strongest fighters. They all have tons of experience, aCoC (presumably all haki types mastered), technical skills e.g. swordsmanship, powerful DF powers (not certain but strong bet they're all awakened mythical zoans), and immortality to top it all off.

I think the Ancient Robot will stall them for at least a few minutes. It will likely be as physically powerful as giants like Dorry & Brogy are right now, plus use some techniques like them. If we're lucky we will see it use energy attacks too and if luckier it will work with G5 Gigante Luffy before it inevitably bites the dust. On powerscale I'd place the Ancient Robot currently at YC1+ level.

 

[Rein Avara]

Since it seems inevitable that the Ancient Robot will fight the Gorosei, how long do people wager it will last? Also how strong do people expect it to be?

This is the first time we'll have seen a pure machine fight, and of all possible enemies it's some of the strongest fighters. They all have tons of experience, aCoC (presumably all haki types mastered), technical skills e.g. swordsmanship, powerful DF powers (not certain but strong bet they're all awakened mythical zoans), and immortality to top it all off.

I think the Ancient Robot will stall them for at least a few minutes. It will likely be as physically powerful as giants like Dorry & Brogy are right now, plus use some techniques like them. If we're lucky we will see it use energy attacks too and if luckier it will work with G5 Gigante Luffy before it inevitably bights the dust. On powerscale I'd place the Ancient Robot currently at YC1+ level.

I honestly think this might be the first time we see them get damaged

 

[DeadlyBeast]

I honestly think this might be the first time we see them get damaged

If that happens it could be a learning opportunity for Luffy and may be something that doesn't involve haki at all. Also curious if the Ancient Robot fought them in the past to?

 

[669ako]

What if oda gonna explain that koh flame is advance armament base technique with boost of conqueror haki in the future.

Which is like a retcon to oda saying in sbs that zoro haki specialty is armament

 

[XXGenesis]

@Pirate Queen Seen your post why not finish the convo here.

Because I agree with you. The WSS & just Swordmanship lore*/ Rankings/ Styles/Schools/ in One Piece is Crap.

We have Graded Swords that get identified in material outside of the Manga, There is no hierarchy to swordsman’s just some guy named Mihawk is/was somehow proclaimed as the WSS;

We haven’t even seen other prominent notable identified as swordsman/Swordplay users.

Now I understand this is a story about pirates. So swords & pistols will be used. But if a characters like Big Mom, Whitebeard, Other characters that use a Sword…..Are they just using a weapon because it makes them stronger. Or Are they actual Swordsman who have Swordplay skill.

I also get the World is Big & Divided. Just like Mihawk became famous, there has only been 1 other swordsman with a reputation. Vista…They ain’t never cross passes until MF…

So I do like Oda’s Worldbuilding..His World Building is central to the plot of the story. The lil world building continuity crumbs that I like in a story that build up & blossoms into other aspects of the plot, Oda doesn’t do well imo I.e….The criticism I mentioned above.

 

[john ellis]

I think going forward we’re going to continue to see massive feats from the shp, I think if zoro fought against an admiral, it’s unlikely for any admiral besides magma man to win. Even if the admiral is probably stronger than zoro at the start of the fight, the haki bloom of zoro would allow him to win.

I can foresee luffy even getting to the 5b bounty range after egg head, they can justify luffy killing an elder with his bounty. And even sanji had reasonable feats vs an admiral this arc.

I don’t think jinbei will reach admiral Level although I can see sanji reaching admiral level by the end of the series. And I can see ussop reaching yc1, aswell as Frankie, brook and robin. I think nami and chopper will be yc2

 

[Fox666]

I think going forward we’re going to continue to see massive feats from the shp, I think if zoro fought against an admiral, it’s unlikely for any admiral besides magma man to win. Even if the admiral is probably stronger than zoro at the start of the fight, the haki bloom of zoro would allow him to win.

I don't think Zoro is anywhere near the level of Luffy or an Admiral

Zoro was barely stronger than Rob Lucci, despite the later being trashed by Luffy a few chapters earlier.

And isn't Shiryu supposed to be a future opponent for Zoro? He was almost one-shotted by Garp, and only managed to injury him thanks to his invisibility

Besides, Luffy should already be able to fight Mihawk at his current level, while Zoro still has to climb that ladder

 

[john ellis]

I don't think Zoro is anywhere near the level of Luffy or an Admiral

Zoro was barely stronger than Rob Lucci, despite the later being trashed by Luffy a few chapters earlier.

And isn't Shiryu supposed to be a future opponent for Zoro? He was almost one-shotted by Garp, and only managed to injury him thanks to his invisibility

Besides, Luffy should already be able to fight Mihawk at his current level, while Zoro still has to climb that ladder

Kizaru was clearly below luffy in there fights though, and I do agree zoro is below luffy. While he may of stalemated luffy in the first fight. He had no way of actually beating luffy besides luffy exhausting himself, he was clearly below g5 in terms of attack power, durabillity and frankly maybe even speed.

zoro doesn’t have any power of plot causing him to get exhausted quickly like luffy does. And lucci did handle some of g5 luffies attack admittably worse than kizaru did but not by a lot. And then you have zoro who looked to only go 70-80% vs lucci. So he’s likely close to an admiral in terms of strength notably zoro didn’t take any major damage from lucci either. And was capable of clashing with a gorosei directly after.

also I agree zoro is probably a touch below an admiral currently. It’s just the straw hats always get stronger in combat, and zoro would surpass an admiral in strength if he were to fight one currrently.

@Fox666 like I guess my question to you is this. If you equalize stamina of g5 luffy and kizaru, do you ever see kizaru winning? If so how much above lucci and other yc1 does zoro need to be admiral level?

o and on shiryu vs zoro,shiryu hasn’t impressed me at all, I think he’s easily below current zoro. If kuzan stays with BB, it’s possible zoro handles shiryu then fights kuzan as his main opponent.

 

[Fox666]

Kizaru was clearly below luffy in there fights though, and I do agree zoro is below luffy. While he may of stalemated luffy in the first fight. He had no way of actually beating luffy besides luffy exhausting himself, he was clearly below g5 in terms of attack power, durabillity and frankly maybe even speed.

zoro doesn’t have any power of plot causing him to get exhausted quickly like luffy does. And lucci did handle some of g5 luffies attack admittably worse than kizaru did but not by a lot. And then you have zoro who looked to only go 70-80% vs lucci. So he’s likely close to an admiral in terms of strength notably zoro didn’t take any major damage from lucci either. And was capable of clashing with a gorosei directly after.

also I agree zoro is probably a touch below an admiral currently. It’s just the straw hats always get stronger in combat, and zoro would surpass an admiral in strength if he were to fight one currrently.

@Fox666 like I guess my question to you is this. If you equalize stamina of g5 luffy and kizaru, do you ever see kizaru winning? If so how much above lucci and other yc1 does zoro need to be admiral level?

o and on shiryu vs zoro,shiryu hasn’t impressed me at all, I think he’s easily below current zoro. If kuzan stays with BB, it’s possible zoro handles shiryu then fights kuzan as his main opponent.

I wouldn't say Kizaru was clearly below Luffy.

Luffy managed to land a good hit on Kizaru in chapter 1093, but he didn't really knocked Kizaru out, and only stunned him for a short period. However, Luffy ran out of power after using Gear 5. If it was just Luffy and Kizaru alone, the result of that battle is that Luffy would have been either captured or killed.

If Luffy didn't have a time limit with Gear 5? While Luffy managed to stun Kizaru, I think a full fight would still be quite difficult, but I'm not sure how much it would push Luffy.


I don't understand why you would say Zoro was only using 70-80%. The Straw Hats were in a rush to escape, Zoro was doing everything he could to defeat Lucci, and he only managed it when Sanji provoked him. Considering Zoro and Lucci fought off-screen for quite some time, and Zoro was using Enma's power, it's clear to me that Lucci pushed Zoro to his limit.

(Also, given that Zoro defeated King the moment he mastered Enma, but Lucci held Zoro for a while, it's obvious to me Lucci was above King.)

I don't think Zoro clashing with Nusjuro is noteworthy. A lot of characters clashed with the Yonko, but are still clearly below them in a 1-vs-1. That's the least I would expect from a Yonko first commander. Luffy is the only one who truly held his own against the Gorosei.

 

[john ellis]

I wouldn't say Kizaru was clearly below Luffy.

Luffy managed to land a good hit on Kizaru in chapter 1093, but he didn't really knocked Kizaru out, and only stunned him for a short period. However, Luffy ran out of power after using Gear 5. If it was just Luffy and Kizaru alone, the result of that battle is that Luffy would have been either captured or killed.

If Luffy didn't have a time limit with Gear 5? While Luffy managed to stun Kizaru, I think a full fight would still be quite difficult, but I'm not sure how much it would push Luffy.


I don't understand why you would say Zoro was only using 70-80%. The Straw Hats were in a rush to escape, Zoro was doing everything he could to defeat Lucci, and he only managed it when Sanji provoked him. Considering Zoro and Lucci fought off-screen for quite some time, and Zoro was using Enma's power, it's clear to me that Lucci pushed Zoro to his limit.

(Also, given that Zoro defeated King the moment he mastered Enma, but Lucci held Zoro for a while, it's obvious to me Lucci was above King.)

I don't think Zoro clashing with Nusjuro is noteworthy. A lot of characters clashed with the Yonko, but are still clearly below them in a 1-vs-1. That's the least I would expect from a Yonko first commander. Luffy is the only one who truly held his own against the Gorosei.

The rest of the straw hat pirates may of been in a rush, but even jinbei had to make zoro be in a rush he was enjoying the fight, and not super caring about the outside. We didn’t see zoro use asura or any highly advanced techniques. Obviously lucci is comparable to zoro, but it wouldn’t surprise me if the top of cp0 is only slightly below the admirals and above the vice admirals.

And I just disagree had kizaru vs luffy continued kizaru would of lost even with the e stamina issues, if it’s 1 on 1 always beat on luffy, especially since awakening his bullshit fruit, luffies haki and devil fruit are just unreasonably strong. Like he’s no longer the under dog, he’s very much a unstoppable monster at this point.

 

[Fox666]

And I just disagree had kizaru vs luffy continued kizaru would of lost even with the e stamina issues, if it’s 1 on 1 always beat on luffy, especially since awakening his bullshit fruit, luffies haki and devil fruit are just unreasonably strong. Like he’s no longer the under dog, he’s very much a unstoppable monster at this point.

What could Luffy do in his aged state? Besides he only got back because someone gave him food. Without outside interference, it would be over for Luffy...

 

[Pirate Queen]

What could Luffy do in his aged state? Besides he only got back because someone gave him food. Without outside interference, it would be over for Luffy...

And during their last clash where it was Luffy vs Kizaru and Saturn... if Kizaru hadn't of luckily landed on a warship and hit the ocean instead it would have been over for him.

Luffy outperformed Kizaru easily and there was luck on both sides

 

[DeadlyBeast]

Yeah in a 1v1 Luffy definitely takes Kizaru out. I wouldn't go above mid diff for Luffy v Kizaru at this point. There was nothing that Kizaru himself did to Luffy that did any serious damage whereas Luffy was able to make Kizaru unable to fight twice. Luffy running out of energy in G5 was the only way Kizaru was able to get a semblance of a "tie" in the first fight. Kizaru clearly lost the second fight even with Saturn backing him up.

In the first fight we know that Luffy wasn't even fresh since he'd fought Lucci in G5 earlier that day, and also had fought against the Seraphim in G4. Not to mention the damage Luffy took from the laser dome defense system and the fact that Luffy when forced to go all out Luffy can go into G5 even if he is in old man mode (he already did that against Kaido).

As for Zoro vs an Admiral. Zoro is clearly below an Admiral fighter at the moment. However, I do get the sentiment that he can grow in a fight to be able to take one out. I think the next arc with 1v1 serious fights will probably be where Zoro does get to that level or above. He's already around where Luffy was prior to Rooftop fight so if he gets another power jump due to plot Zoro definitely can beat an Admiral. At the moment if he does get that treatment it will be an extreme diff win for Zoro. Assuming Mihawk is genuinely Yonko level I'd say Zoro is one or two major fights away from facing him for title of WSS which is when Zoro will achieve Yonko level strength.

On bounties I think Luffy will get a 4B bounty from the things that happened this arc. Oda is very cyclical so I'd guess he will go from 3B -> 4B in same way he went from 300M to 400M after Saboady/Impel Down/Marineford, and then go 4B - >5B for beating BB and finally go from 5B to his final bounty of 5.6B for becoming PK. Whatever he does after that won't get him an increase since that will be downfall of WG, will also be the highest bounty ever and will have the 56 which is Luffy's number. I'd also bet that Dragon will have a bounty that is greater than 5B but less than 5.5B so he could have the highest bounty even while WB was alive but never have had one as high as Roger's 5.5B when he died.

 

[Fox666]

And during their last clash where it was Luffy vs Kizaru and Saturn... if Kizaru hadn't of luckily landed on a warship and hit the ocean instead it would have been over for him.

Luffy outperformed Kizaru easily and there was luck on both sides

The point wasn't that Luffy was lucky, but that it wasn't a real 1-vs-1. Luffy getting help to recover is not comparable to Kizaru falling on a battleship.

Besides, what exactly even counts as luck in this scenario? They were close to water but also surrounded by battleships, and someone falling on a ship was likely to happen.

Not that it matters, Kizaru had shown earlier that he can levitate and avoid falling on water. Kizaru wasn't injured by Luffy either, and had simply lost his will to fight after killing Vegapunk. That's not saying Luffy couldn't defeat Kizaru, but that definitely wouldn't be enough.

 

[Pirate Queen]

The point wasn't that Luffy was lucky, but that it wasn't a real 1-vs-1. Luffy getting help to recover is not comparable to Kizaru falling on a battleship.

Besides, what exactly even counts as luck in this scenario? They were close to water but also surrounded by battleships, and someone falling on a ship was likely to happen.

Not that it matters, Kizaru had shown earlier that he can levitate and avoid falling on water. Kizaru wasn't injured by Luffy either, and had simply lost his will to fight after killing Vegapunk. That's not saying Luffy couldn't defeat Kizaru, but that definitely wouldn't be enough.

the ratio of ocean to ship is MASSIVE, also take into account how far he flew from the result of Luffy's attack. it was luck.

and it is certainly comparable. there was no guarantee Luffy would get aid with food the same way there was no guarantee Kizaru wouldn't have landed on a ship surrounded by so much water. it's not like Kizaru altered his trajectory to make sure he landed on a ship.

luffy flattened Kizaru and Saturn like pizzas... he was literally toying with them. In a 1 v 1 without interference? Lufy mid-high different him without question.

luffy was literally eating kizaru's light beams.

 

[Fox666]

the ratio of ocean to ship is MASSIVE, also take into account how far he flew from the result of Luffy's attack. it was luck.

and it is certainly comparable. there was no guarantee Luffy would get aid with food the same way there was no guarantee Kizaru wouldn't have landed on a ship surrounded by so much water. it's not like Kizaru altered his trajectory to make sure he landed on a ship.

luffy flattened Kizaru and Saturn like pizzas... he was literally toying with them. In a 1 v 1 without interference? Lufy mid-high different him without question.

luffy was literally eating kizaru's light beams.

Luffy flattening them didn't have any effect...

Even if Luffy is stronger than Kizaru, obviously a basic attack like that isn't going to take him down

 

[john ellis]

Luffy flattening them didn't have any effect...

Even if Luffy is stronger than Kizaru, obviously a basic attack like that isn't going to take him down

Kizaru while able to damage g4 to some degrees couldn’t damage g5, g5 luffy had some of the most insane durability we’ve ever seen, frankley g5 luffy might surpass kaido’s durabillity. Although kaido obviously has Munich better base durabillity. G5’s toonforce and increased rubber body allows luffy to just tank virtually any attack. Frankley not even kaido was able to do any real damage to g5 luffy, we’ve never seen anyone hurt g5 frankley.

 

[Fox666]

Kizaru while able to damage g4 to some degrees couldn’t damage g5, g5 luffy had some of the most insane durability we’ve ever seen, frankley g5 luffy might surpass kaido’s durabillity. Although kaido obviously has Munich better base durabillity. G5’s toonforce and increased rubber body allows luffy to just tank virtually any attack. Frankley not even kaido was able to do any real damage to g5 luffy, we’ve never seen anyone hurt g5 frankley.

I assume that attacks with Haki still hurt Luffy, but he doesn't show any damage because he's already at a level which he can tanks attacks from Kaido

Kizaru did cut Luffy's cheek, so I guess that's proof he's not invulnerable?