Discussion Fairy Tail Power Ranking Thread

[Jhonatas Fernandes]

Are you actually capable of reading? Read what I wrote. I said no hax involved. All what you typed is called cheat magic. I said one shot both natsu and erza without HAX INVOLVED. Calm down and read. With hax even a fodder like brandish is capable of affecting augusto. Larcade magic can work on people above him. I'm not talking about hax here. Brandish quite literally got one shot by Dimaria and she was about to get cooked by Neinhart and natsu one shot the both of them


Is this a joke? You post natsu using fire dragon King scales and you said he didn't fight suzaku using enhanced mode?

. Bro do you have comprehension issues? This is why I get angry. You show a scan of natsu blocking an attack with his hands and you say it the same thing as against suzaku. THE FUCKING PANEL OF NATSU ISN'T EVEN THE SAME

--- Double Post Merged, Apr 2, 2026, Original Post Date: Apr 2, 2026 ---

Itachi fans exist bro.

First, your preference for damage attacks over the magical effects of high-level spells doesn't change anything about how both kinds of magic can make one wizard strong.
Second, "Hax magic" is a magic that cheats the power level, speed, and endurance of wizards, which didn't happen when Neinhart knocked out (Erza was damaged by the Historias until she passed out), nor when Youkou defeated Erza (If Erza had evaded the smoke monster attack or hadn't breathed the smoke, she wouldn't have been defeated), nor when Ajeel almost defeated Erza too, because he needed to touch her physically to drain the water of her body, so if she were fast enought not to be touched or were quickly to free herself from him, she wouldn't needed help from another guild member.

If Larcade's magic can work on people above him, he can defeat people above him, which means that "the people above him" are not exactly so above him.
Brandish was defeated by Dimaria only because Brandish wouldn't dare to try to kill her and because of the nature of Dimaria's magic, which, by the way, isn't something that Suzaku proved to overcome. So if Dimaria bites her teeth before Suzaku hits her, he is defeated.
Brandish wouldn't be defeated by Neinhart; she was yelling to Natsu to get back, so she would do something. Honestly, she was just shocked that Irene enhanced him to the extent that her magic was not working on him, but there is no way that a giant Brandish couldn't overcome his attack and defeat him easily, considering that Neinhart's endurance is very poor.

I posted Natsu using his arms to defend against an attack, proving that it is something that he does. You're praising the fact that he covered his arms with fire to increase his defense, as if Natsu needed to brutally advance his magical level to do it.
Natsu, before, rushed to Suzaku with both his arms covered in fire. If she had just focused on defending the attack, he would have done it.

What Natsu said to Suzaku later is that his daily training + knowledge of Suzaku's combat style made him a match for Suzaku (and without even entering the Dragon Force or using the Lighting Fire Mode).

 

[Darklord#10]

First, your preference for damage attacks over the magical effects of high-level spells doesn't change anything about how both kinds of magic can make one wizard strong.
Second, "Hax magic" is a magic that cheats the power level, speed, and endurance of wizards, which didn't happen when Neinhart knocked out (Erza was damaged by the Historias until she passed out), nor when Youkou defeated Erza (If Erza had evaded the smoke monster attack or hadn't breathed the smoke, she wouldn't have been defeated), nor when Ajeel almost defeated Erza too, because he needed to touch her physically to drain the water of her body, so if she were fast enought not to be touched or were quickly to free herself from him, she wouldn't needed help from another guild member.

If Larcade's magic can work on people above him, he can defeat people above him, which means that "the people above him" are not exactly so above him.
Brandish was defeated by Dimaria only because Brandish wouldn't dare to try to kill her and because of the nature of Dimaria's magic, which, by the way, isn't something that Suzaku proved to overcome. So if Dimaria bites her teeth before Suzaku hits her, he is defeated.
Brandish wouldn't be defeated by Neinhart; she was yelling to Natsu to get back, so she would do something. Honestly, she was just shocked that Irene enhanced him to the extent that her magic was working on him, but there is no way that a giant Brandish couldn't overcome his attack easily, considering that Neinhart's endurance is very poor.

I posted Natsu using his arms to defend against an attack, proving that it is something that he does. You're praising the fact that he covered his arms with fire to increase his defense, as if Natsu needed to brutally advance his magical level to do it.
Natsu, before, rushed to Suzaku with both his arms covered in fire. If she had just focused on defending the attack, he would have done it.

What Natsu said to Suzaku later is that his daily training + knowledge of Suzaku's combat style made him a match for Suzaku (and without even entering the Dragon Force or using the Lighting Fire Mode).

You win bro

 

[Jhonatas Fernandes]

Erza was K.Oedby Suzaku but not by Misaki and but you want to equalize both attacks Haku is a hax merchant. Laxus got a stronger mode change and one shotted Kirin while Wall was one shotted by a weaker mode change that Kirin tanked and even overpowered, just imagine pushing DBZ Freeza agenda by saying he is still stronger than Cell despite being folded by SSJ1 level characters while you need SSJ2 level characters to fold Cell this is how spriggan agenda is pushed...

Because Erza perceived that Misaki was someone with "Gildarts or Laxus'" aura since the beginning of their fight. When Suzaku attacked her, she was almost taken by surprise.
I already said that Erza fights more fiercely when the opponent is a great challenge. And Misaki has more narrative praise about her level than Suzaku (she is the one compared to Gildart's level, she is the one who sparred with Kirin, who were also compared with Gildarts by Laxus, etc.)

Laxus gave a punch with Red Lightning in Kirin's face; he didn't use the same finisher spell he used later against him or to defeat Wall. You're basically saying that every attack in an enhanced mode is equal, and that the level of the spell used doesn't count.
Laxus was also disturbed by the coffin's effect whenever it touched his body, so Kirin had some advantages against his foe:

And, yes, Laxus gained the power of Elexion's soul, but this power-up wasn't portrayed as something that put Laxus on an entirely new level (he didn't enter the dragon force because of it or something like that), so the only thing possible to assume is that Kirin demanded "some" more power to be defeated than Wall, but both of them needed that Laxus used the same finisher spell (which is his strong attack) to be defetead.

Suzaku is not a FT mage that Hiro draws all the time for Hiro to stop caring about naming his attacks, if Suzaku strongest attacks are named then a non named attack is casual, besides it's pretty clear that he only became serious when he faced Selene


What's your evidence that Suzaku was beyond casual when he folded Natsu and Erza ? Because the story only suggests that he got serious against Selene.



Suzaku defeated Erza without hax differently from Youko and Brandish cases. Erza grew far stronger than Ajeel in 100YQ and it was that Erza that was beaten by Suzaku and even if she didn't got stronger he still defeated her more easily. Neinhart defeated a tired Erza. August is a top spriggan. Spriggans are jus wanked fodders. Let's just ignore all fights and push agendas then Of course i prefer damage feats, people who make damage feats always beat magical effect users in an embarrassing way if they aren't reduced into irrelevant fodders like Marin Hollow lol

Suzaku attacked and counter-attacked Selene without using a named attack, which means he can face a human dragon without it. It's quite obvious that he, like any other strong swordsman, already possesses strength in his cut without chanting a spell, and a chanting attack just means a stronger attack. And it's quite obvious that Suzaku detected Fairy Tail as Diablos' enemy, so he attacked Natsu and Erza seriously, and he did the same when facing Selene.

I answered someone previously about some wrong ideas of "hax magic" being used here, so I will not answer it again. Both Spriggan and BDSK's magical power levels are compared with Gildarts' (either directly with him or by the equivalence with God Serena), so it's not possible, based on the information that the narrative gave, for a BDSK wizard to cancel the "hax magic" from the Spriggans that actually used it (Brandish, Dimaria, Larcade, Invel). Thank you.

 

[GodSlayer666]

Because Erza perceived that Misaki was someone with "Gildarts or Laxus'" aura since the beginning of their fight. When Suzaku attacked her, she was almost taken by surprise.
I already said that Erza fights more fiercely when the opponent is a great challenge. And Misaki has more narrative praise about her level than Suzaku (she is the one compared to Gildart's level, she is the one who sparred with Kirin, who were also compared with Gildarts by Laxus, etc.)

Erza has Laxus aura and Gray still ranked Suzaku's aura above that. Her guard was still not down as she reacted. She was more surprised with Misaki dimension as she didn't knew how to deal with it at first and yet she tanked the hours of pain. Suzaku swordmanship is not something complex to deal, even so that she blocked his attack because it's very simple to just blocked, but he was strong enough to one shot her with the block while Erza endured Misaki attack and learned how to deal with her dimension to continue fighting. All of this shows that Suzaku is far superior. If she is compared to Gildarts than Gildarts, The Powercliffed Man is inferior to Suzaku. Heck if Laxus uses his full power against Levia and curbstomps him instead of one shotting like with Kirin he is already above Powercliffed Man.

Laxus gave a punch with Red Lightning in Kirin's face; he didn't use the same finisher spell he used later against him or to defeat Wall. You're basically saying that every attack in an enhanced mode is equal, and that the level of the spell used doesn't count.
Laxus was also disturbed by the coffin's effect whenever it touched his body, so Kirin had some advantages against his foe:

He gave a punch to both

If anything Laxus put more effort against kirin as he had to bypass his atmosphere. To bypass Wall immunity he just had to change the properties of lightning which red lightning already naturally does, while to cut the atmosphere air he needed sheer strength, and this was before Kirin used the coffin

In no moment outside of the tumor effects Wall was able of subduing Laxus even with his lightning immunity while a non serious Kirin was overwhelming Laxus even before the coffin

Let's be real, the difference between Kirin to both Wall and Ajeel show that you and @WoWfan are just pushing spriggan agenda

Suzaku attacked and counter-attacked Selene without using a named attack, which means he can face a human dragon without it. It's quite obvious that he, like any other strong swordsman, already possesses strength in his cut without chanting a spell, and a chanting attack just means a stronger attack. And it's quite obvious that Suzaku detected Fairy Tail as Diablos' enemy, so he attacked Natsu and Erza seriously, and he did the same when facing Selene.

Didn't said he don't his non named attacks aren't strong, just that he was more casual against Fairy Tail than with Selene because Selene was a stronger enemy, till this date i still not convinced that either August or Irene are stronger than her human form.

I answered someone previously about some wrong ideas of "hax magic" being used here, so I will not answer it again. Both Spriggan and BDSK's magical power levels are compared with Gildarts' (either directly with him or by the equivalence with God Serena), so it's not possible, based on the information that the narrative gave, for a BDSK wizard to cancel the "hax magic" from the Spriggans that actually used it (Brandish, Dimaria, Larcade, Invel). Thank you.

Only Serena was compared to Gildarts and he is stronger than Fodderheart, even Youko is stronger than Fodderheart while Brandish couldn't even affect him just because he was enchanted. Alvarez Laxus was weaker than Serena yet Ajeel was one shot material for him and Wall also was. Even if we ignore the lightning immunity stuff and equalize Wall to base Laxus, Red Lightning is still superior to Wall, while both Kirin and Serena are stronger than Red Lightning, there is no room to equalize them.

Dimaria got fodderized by an END equal to Gray, Invel was curbstomped by a weaker Gray than the one who fought END. Brandish hax don't work even with Enchanted Fodderheart so no reason to assume it would affect any single BDSK, same with Dimaria as END just counters immortality not time stop. Invel's ability isn't even that haxed and was curbstomped by Gray just like DF Gajeel curbstomped Bloodman and none of them are stronger than Alvarez Jellal or Laxus, let alone Gildarts. Larcade hax can be resisted even by people weaker than himself.

If the hax don't affect people stronger than the hax user then it's meaningless, and if it can beat a hax user with just sheer strength then this hax is also meaningless

 

[Darklord#10]

One thing I've realized recently is that normal people and spriggan twelve fans don't read the same manga and we're not seeing the same thing. We're literally not reading the same thing. We're also speaking past each other most of the times but I feel like I have made my own point very clear. "With hax you can beat people above your level but that doesn't mean you are stronger"
Look at this let's say the bdsk are weaker than August and Irene for argument sake but they still scale to the high tier s12 members like Serena or larcade and Serena is stronger than invel, brandish, Jacob, ajeel, neihart, bloodman, Wahl. So how exactly are you arguing that someone on Serena's level is losing to ajeel? How exactly do you argue that wahl the weakest spriggan is as strong as even haku?? There's no correlation at all.

Another point is that s12 fans believe that s12 are the strongest set of characters in fairy tail I've not come across one s12 fan who doesn't believe this. Also they have a huge hate for hundred years quest(not all of them but most of them do). So when we're discussing or debating one group doesn't view the s12 as gods while the other views them as gods.

 

[Jhonatas Fernandes]

Erza has Laxus aura and Gray still ranked Suzaku's aura above that. Her guard was still not down as she reacted. She was more surprised with Misaki dimension as she didn't knew how to deal with it at first and yet she tanked the hours of pain. Suzaku swordmanship is not something complex to deal, even so that she blocked his attack because it's very simple to just blocked, but he was strong enough to one shot her with the block while Erza endured Misaki attack and learned how to deal with her dimension to continue fighting. All of this shows that Suzaku is far superior. If she is compared to Gildarts than Gildarts, The Powercliffed Man is inferior to Suzaku.

Gray and Gajeel are both scared of Misaki's aura, and Erza felt that even before she and Misaki started their fight:

Gray also believed that the odds were way against Erza in a fight with Misaki, so it's not true that Gray put Suzaku even beyond Misaki's level.

The strongest of BDSK'S group is Kirin, and Misaki is capable of measuring strength with him; thus, it is impossible that Suzaku is far stronger than her. According to the manga information, the group is around the same level, but Misaki was more leveled with the one who claimed to be the strongest of the group. Defending that Suzaku is far stronger than Misaki, instead of accepting that Erza wasn't fighting in her peak when she was cut by him, proves how wrong you are.

Heck if Laxus uses his full power against Levia and curbstomps him instead of one shotting like with Kirin he is already above Powercliffed Man. He gave a punch to both

If anything Laxus put more effort against kirin as he had to bypass his atmosphere. To bypass Wall immunity he just had to change the properties of lightning which red lightning already naturally does, while to cut the atmosphere air he needed sheer strength, and this was before Kirin used the coffin

In no moment outside of the tumor effects Wall was able of subduing Laxus even with his lightning immunity while a non serious Kirin was overwhelming Laxus even before the coffin

Let's be real, the difference between Kirin to both Wall and Ajeel show that you and @WoWfan are just pushing spriggan agenda

Didn't said he don't his non named attacks aren't strong, just that he was more casual against Fairy Tail than with Selene because Selene was a stronger enemy, till this date i still not convinced that either August or Irene are stronger than her human form.

Except that the punch Laxus gave to Wall was a punch with accumulated magic power forming the same spell he used to defeat Kirin, wasn't just a punch in the face and nothing more:

"Raikô" means "Megaton"; Laxus used the same finisher spell against both, as I already said before.
So let's be clear: Kirin has submagic that creates an atmosphere that needs to be overcome to hit him, Kirin also possesses lightning dragon slayer magic (the same magic that Laxus possesses) and a coffin with Elexion's soul that was disturbing Laxus, but somehow all theses advantages doesn't count while comparing his performance against Laxus to Wall's performance with the same oponent, Wall who only possessed the resistance to lighting (which Kirin also possessed for being a dragon slayer).
But the fact is that Laxus was only overwhelmed and fell to the floor against Kirin because of the coffin:
"The coffin? So that's what hit me earlier!"

It is also a fact that even if Laxus didn't need to bypass some magic to hit Wall, all that Laxus tried to do before the "Megaton: Red Lighting" wasn't enough to hurt Wall's body, while the Red Lighting punch and regular attacks are working on Kirin.

Kirin:

Wall:

Since Wall mistook an attack on Laxus for no reason before Laxus collapsed due to the poison, there is absolutely no evidence that the fight would be different if Laxus were not poisoned. Laxus didn't have the power to damage Wall without the Red Lightning.

Kirin was only able to overwhelm Laxus because of the coffin effect whenever it touched Laxus's body. In the end, Kirin possessed more advantages against Laxus than Wall did. And if Laxus (with some more magical power) defeated Kirin with the same finisher spell he used against Wall, the one who is getting the better in the defeated situation is Wall.

Only Serena was compared to Gildarts and he is stronger than Fodderheart, even Youko is stronger than Fodderheart while Brandish couldn't even affect him just because he was enchanted. Alvarez Laxus was weaker than Serena yet Ajeel was one shot material for him and Wall also was. Even if we ignore the lightning immunity stuff and equalize Wall to base Laxus, Red Lightning is still superior to Wall, while both Kirin and Serena are stronger than Red Lightning, there is no room to equalize them.

Dimaria got fodderized by an END equal to Gray, Invel was curbstomped by a weaker Gray than the one who fought END. Brandish hax don't work even with Enchanted Fodderheart so no reason to assume it would affect any single BDSK, same with Dimaria as END just counters immortality not time stop. Invel's ability isn't even that haxed and was curbstomped by Gray just like DF Gajeel curbstomped Bloodman and none of them are stronger than Alvarez Jellal or Laxus, let alone Gildarts. Larcade hax can be resisted even by people weaker than himself.

If the hax don't affect people stronger than the hax user then it's meaningless, and if it can beat a hax user with just sheer strength then this hax is also meaningless

Only Serena is compared to Gildarts, but all the Spriggan twelve is compared to God Serena, so... I hope you can do basic assimilation.

Neinhart was enchanted by Irene, the top cream of the Spriggans. There is nothing wrong with Irene enhancing his magical power so high that Brandish's magic didn't work. It doesn't matter how you tried to negate it; neither of the Spriggans are far weaker than God Serena. Some are far stronger than him (Irene and August), but the ones who are weaker than God Serena are not far weaker, because God Serena's level is the standard of Spriggan's level. The group was compared with him at the beginning of the arc.
So, again: Ajeel wouldn't be one-shot by Laxus after casting the Sand World first; he moves quickly in the sand. It wasn't shown how Dimaria was defeated by END. Natsu could have woken with an overwhelmed END power spell and remained with a lower level of END's power later, when he was more conscious. Overall, I think you're being pretty ridiculous in your attempt to diminish some Spriggan wizards.

--- Double Post Merged, Apr 7, 2026, Original Post Date: Apr 7, 2026 ---

One thing I've realized recently is that normal people and spriggan twelve fans don't read the same manga and we're not seeing the same thing. We're literally not reading the same thing. We're also speaking past each other most of the times but I feel like I have made my own point very clear. "With hax you can beat people above your level but that doesn't mean you are stronger"
Look at this let's say the bdsk are weaker than August and Irene for argument sake but they still scale to the high tier s12 members like Serena or larcade and Serena is stronger than invel, brandish, Jacob, ajeel, neihart, bloodman, Wahl. So how exactly are you arguing that someone on Serena's level is losing to ajeel? How exactly do you argue that wahl the weakest spriggan is as strong as even haku?? There's no correlation at all.

Another point is that s12 fans believe that s12 are the strongest set of characters in fairy tail I've not come across one s12 fan who doesn't believe this. Also they have a huge hate for hundred years quest(not all of them but most of them do). So when we're discussing or debating one group doesn't view the s12 as gods while the other views them as gods.

It seems to me that the Spriggan 12 fans actually understand what they are reading, while "normal people" (it's so funny you being the group of "normal") don't.

 

[Darklord#10]

It seems to me that the Spriggan 12 fans actually understand what they are reading, while "normal people" (it's so funny you being the group of "normal") don't.

Of course we're the normal ones here. We don't view the s12 as gods while you do. We're not the same. You literally read natsu vs suzaku and you saw natsu use his fire dragon King attacks but you then said that was "standard natsu". We're definitely not reading the same story.
If god serena and kirin are as strong as gildarts and god serena is stronger than Wahl how the hell is Wahl as strong as kirin.
We are definitely not reading the same manga. We don't see the same panels, we don't read the same words etc

 

[Jhonatas Fernandes]

Of course we're the normal ones here. We don't view the s12 as gods while you do. We're not the same. You literally read natsu vs suzaku and you saw natsu use his fire dragon King attacks but you then said that was "standard natsu". We're definitely not reading the same story.
If god serena and kirin are as strong as gildarts and god serena is stronger than Wahl how the hell is Wahl as strong as kirin.
We are definitely not reading the same manga. We don't see the same panels, we don't read the same words etc

Kirin and Wall are close in strength, even if Kirin is a little superior, because God Serena and Wall are close in strength. What doesn't make sense is your interpretation that Wall wouldn't put up a good fight against Kirin.
The narrative could have said that the BDSK were stronger than any enemy that Fairy Tail fought, and even put a Fairy Tail wizard saying, "Even the Spriggan level vanished around the BDSK's magic power", but, instead, the BDSK are leveled with Gildart's level, which is something already used to the Spriggan group. It's a pity for you.

 

[Axiomus]

Ok, I'm all caught up now. Lol.

Natsu used FDK against Suzaku, which is stronger than LFD. The chapter explains thar Suzaku can easily cut dragon scales, so Natsu had to use the scales of a Fire Dragon King. Even if you were to argue that Natsu just covered his arms in flames to defend, Natsu himself said "These flames are the scales of a Fire Dragon King". This means he's using special FDK flames that provide better defense than dragon scales. This is durability that allows him to tank the same attack that defeated Selene in human form. Needless to say, not a single Spriggan has durability on this level, not even August or Irene.

Jacob was screaming in pain just from being near Natsu as he uses FDK. Makarov was able to throw Happy between a Jacob's hands before he could clap. Suzaku attacks are far faster than this, and Natsu trained himself to be quick enough to react to them. Natsu's FDK destruction fist filled the entire hallway with flames. If Jacob had been standing as a witness to Natsu and Suzaku's fight, Suzaku would have attacked Natsu faster than Jacob could perceive. In response, Natsu would have used FDK to defend against Suzaku's attack, also faster than Jacob could perceive. By the time Jacob realized what was happening, he would be writhing in pain from the heat of Natsu's flames, unable to clap. When Natsu attacks Suzaku with FDK destruction fist, Jacob would be taken out by the crossfire.

If Ignia didnt melt Suzaku's sword with a blast that melted Dogramag's labyrinth, then Ajeel isnt turning Suzaku's sword into sand. Ajeel statement of being able to turn everything he touches into sand has been contested. Elfman and Lisanna touched him a bunch of times when they beat him up. They weren't turned to sand. You are out of your mind if you think Suzaku's "dragon-scale cleaving, Natsu and Erza oneshotting, Dogramag's rock shattering, Selene's human form defeating" sword is gonna break after grazing a body that Elfman and Lisanna beat up. Plus, Im not entirely convinced that Suzaku has to make physical contact with his sword for most of his attacks.

All that aside, the giant elephant in the room is that Ajeel lost against Erza. I dont include Ajeel in the list of wizards that beat Erza, because their fight ended with Erza knocking Ajeel unconscious and fist bumping Natsu. I know some peoppe are gonna say Erza only won with Bisca's help, but so what? Erza had all of team Natsu's help against Suzaku. Natsu got oneshotted immediately after. Gray recognized he was outclassed and ran. What difference could Bisca's have made against Suzaku? By the time Bisca fired her shot, Erza would have already been defeated. Then Suzaku would just tank the jupiter canon, and go over to oneshot Bisca. I'll give Ajeel credit where credit is due, and say that he gave Erza a extreme difficulty fight. But let's not pretend this is anywhere near comparable to how Suzaku oneshotted Erza. They not the same.

Are we seriously going to pretend that Neinhart could have taken out both Erza and Natsu the same way Suzaku did? Neinhart summons fodders. The only reason Erza struggled with him was because she was still injured from her fight with Ajeel. All the credit I just gave to Ajeel comes straight out of Neinhart's stock. Anyways, Natsu oneshotted him. Why are we pretending he's got any way to deal with Suzaku. By the time he summons his first Historia, Suzaku would have cut him in half.

Age Seal doesn't matter, because Suzaku doesn't need to defend against DImaria's attacks. Suzaku tanked attacks from Natsu that would have oneshotted Dimaria. He tanked a blast from Ignia that destroyed Dogramag's labyrinth, which also would have oneshotted Dimaria. He tanked Dogramag turning into a dragon and stomping him into the earth, which, you guessed it, also would have oneshotted Dimria.. Even after all that, he still didnt go down from damage. He went down because he ran out of MP. Dimaria can trap him in age seal and spam attacks at him until she's exhausted. He tanks them all. Chelia swatted Dimaria's lasers with her bare skin, and Wendy's enchantments allowed Chelia to tank shots from Dimaria at full strength. Dimaria would freeze time with age seal, exhaust her powers trying to put a dent in Suzaku, realize that Suzaku is leagues above the END-powered Natsu that brutalized her in strength, and go back to tending vegetables.

Selene acknowledged that Suzaku was stronger than her human form after he beat her. That is better hype than sparring, and presumably losing to, Kirin. Gildarts level MP means nothing. Selene was flexing her Acnologia level MP when she fought Suzaku. She was causing the moon to become massive in size, and causing the waters on Earthland (in a different dimension) to flood, and her MP triggered Alter Face to start destroying the planet. This caused Mercphobia to state Selene's magic was stronger than his. All of that meant nothing to Suzaku, because he understood fights are won by dealing damage, not flexing MP.

Wall had his spine ripped from his torso from Laxus' megaton red lightning. Kirin tanked that shot. Laxus had to eat Elexion's MP for Thunder Dragon King. Thunder Dragon King's Red Lightning and Megaton Red Lightning are different attacks the same way a regular roar and FDK roar are different attacks. TDK Red Lightning is stronger. You can debate over how much, but it doesn't matter. Kirin survived an stronger attack that ripped Wall's spine from his torso. Kirin gets to talk trash to Laxus after the arc was over, claim he only used 10% of his power, and ask for a rematch. Wall doesn't get to do any of this because, again, his spine was ripped away from his torso and he died. I don't get how we can even be debating over who is portrayed to be stronger here. In a friendly spar against Kirin, Laxus would be using attacks that murders Wall.

 

[GodSlayer666]

Gray and Gajeel are both scared of Misaki's aura, and Erza felt that even before she and Misaki started their fight:

Gray was Skullion level at the time and Gajeel a Serena victim. But the point is that Gray was confident on Erza taking Misaki while he ranked Suzaku above Erza and Natsu.

Gray called an insult Misaki acting like if Erza needed the two supporting her, in the other he said that Suzaku was another level than Natsu after seeing Erza being one shotted, so it also applies to her. He never said the odds were against her, he even said that Misaki wanting a 3v1 was an insult, it's like you read everything pushing agendas.

The strongest of BDSK'S group is Kirin, and Misaki is capable of measuring strength with him; thus, it is impossible that Suzaku is far stronger than her. According to the manga information, the group is around the same level, but Misaki was more leveled with the one who claimed to be the strongest of the group. Defending that Suzaku is far stronger than Misaki, instead of accepting that Erza wasn't fighting in her peak when she was cut by him, proves how wrong you are.

Calling Kirin the strongest BDSK is pure intellectual dishonesty which coming from a spriggan wanker does not surprise me. Using Kirin self boast claim is the same of using Sting and Rogues claim that they could take Acnologia or Anchor claim that he is stronger than Merc despite being harmed by even Juvia, self boast claim has no validity. And using Selene statement is so dishonest that hurst, she said that Kirin and Laxus were TWO OF THE strongest, not THE TWO strongest. There is a huge difference, what she said was that they were AMONG the strongest, not the top 2 strongest. Even Hiro said that he didn't knew who would win between Suzaku and Laxus TWICE.

Do i need to explain the dictionary definition of PEHARPS ? And Erza also wasn't at her peak when she endured Misaki attack but still endured it, so what's your point ?

"Raikô" means "Megaton"; Laxus used the same finisher spell against both, as I already said before.
So let's be clear: Kirin has submagic that creates an atmosphere that needs to be overcome to hit him, Kirin also possesses lightning dragon slayer magic (the same magic that Laxus possesses) and a coffin with Elexion's soul that was disturbing Laxus, but somehow all theses advantages doesn't count while comparing his performance against Laxus to Wall's performance with the same oponent, Wall who only possessed the resistance to lighting (which Kirin also possessed for being a dragon slayer).
But the fact is that Laxus was only overwhelmed and fell to the floor against Kirin because of the coffin:
"The coffin? So that's what hit me earlier!"

To think you were the one who started with the non named attacks don't matter at least i said that it doesn't matter for protagonists like Laxus, so i'm still being coherent lmao. Atmosphere and lightning ds are not advantages, they are Kirin abilities, everything he do with them it's his own merit, only the coffin was an advantage, and you compare it with Wall lightning immunity fighting a Laxus with tumor. Wall had far more advantages against Laxus and still didn't overpowered him like Kirin did with just atmosphere. It's not resistence is immunity, take this immunity and he would be one shotted like Ajeel would be, and if Kirin's dragon king lightning is a better magic than what Laxus had before then it's just Kirin's merit, the best lightning user has to win in the end, same with any same element fight, and even then Kirin overpowered Base Laxus with just atmosphere, it was against Red Lightning that he used coffin.

If you really think that the coffin is more advantage than having lightning immunity against a Laxus with tumor than you are just way too biased

Only Serena is compared to Gildarts, but all the Spriggan twelve is compared to God Serena, so... I hope you can do basic assimilation.

You really think this overhype proves anything Laxus being superior to both Ajeel and Wall while being inferior to Serena directly debunks that, and no matter what you say, both can be one shotted by Laxus, you can cope as much as you can Ajeel was about to be one shotted WITHOUT BEING OFF GUARD and Wall needed a lot of plot armor to fight Laxus, the moment he lost all the plot armors he got one shotted. Ajeel and Wall are no hax users, there is no way to deny their inferiority. But let's analyze the spriggan hype anyway.

Both this panel and yours say that ALL THE 12 are equals. But wait, wait, wait, August is an exception, wait wait, wait, Irene is also an exception, wait, wait wait, Larcade is a exception too.. There were so many exceptions in these ''equals'' that there is no reason for God Serena to not be an exception too, he is literally stronger than spriggans who have no hax for any bullshit excuse. ''But, but, but, Serena was directly named there, so it should at least apply to him'' No it doesn't, like if the evidences weren't enough the ones who claimed that Serena was spriggan level were the gods of ishgar, but look at what happened when they actually faced him.

Wolfheim is shocked with how powerful Serena actually is, which means that he was stronger than what they expected, and later both Jura and Hyberion expressed surprise with his dragon slayer magics showing that they didn't knew he had it. So he could either have become stronger than what they knew or or they simply knew nothing and guessed wrong. Even the own manga makes the statement lose weight.

So for Serena being stronger than other spriggans we have 3 evidences
1-GS feats against Jellal which already scales him much above Neinhart, Ajeel and Wall
2-Gildarts praising him
3-Mashima ranking him as a stronger dragon slayer than Laxus who is able of one shotting Ajeel and Wall
4-Multiple exceptions in the all spriggans are equals statement
5-Gods of Ishgar expressing surprise at GS's power level and abilities

Now the evidences for GS being just a regular spriggan: a statement with multiple exceptions made by people who expressed surprise in Serena's strength when they actually faced him
You should start pushing Dragon Gods agenda too, they were stated to be equals and then Ignia's human form embarrassed Dragon Aldoron.

Neinhart was enchanted by Irene, the top cream of the Spriggans. There is nothing wrong with Irene enhancing his magical power so high that Brandish's magic didn't work. It doesn't matter how you tried to negate it; neither of the Spriggans are far weaker than God Serena. Some are far stronger than him (Irene and August), but the ones who are weaker than God Serena are not far weaker, because God Serena's level is the standard of Spriggan's level. The group was compared with him at the beginning of the arc.
So, again: Ajeel wouldn't be one-shot by Laxus after casting the Sand World first; he moves quickly in the sand. It wasn't shown how Dimaria was defeated by END. Natsu could have woken with an overwhelmed END power spell and remained with a lower level of END's power later, when he was more conscious. Overall, I think you're being pretty ridiculous in your attempt to diminish some Spriggan wizards.

Which part of him still being a one shot material you didn't got?
Being one shotted or curbstomped by weaker people than Serena don't make them much weaker than Serena
Sand World can be very well affected by lightning, and like i said with Wall, even if Base Laxus couldn't, Red Lightning can one shot them, but can't one shot Kirin and is still inferior to Serena.

Like if it is not ridiculous to argue that Laxus one shot materials who have no hax are close to someone stronger than Laxus. You tried to say that Ajeel was off guard when he was about to attack Laxus's ship, now you are trying to say that Dimaria fought a stronger END just to keep pushing the spriggan agenda but the one being pretty ridiculous it's me @Darklord#10 is right, you are reading Spriggan Tail

 

[WoWfan]

I think it can be simplified like this.

1. Nerfed human Selene can cause damage to nerfed Dog Dude’s stones, Suzuki could not.
2. Jacob could not mount a proper defense as he was pushed back. As Invel who scales to him can freeze Natsu’s FDK flames.
3. Lucy with Brandish’s power can overpower Full Power Merc. Otherwise she would be been smooshed to a bloody paste in his mouth.

Sounds simple enough, not ideal for everyone but it is the Author’s work, who is to judge?

 

[Rigel]

Lucy and Brandish never managed to defeat Mercphobia.

They only destroyed his lacrima, which caused him to revert to normal.

 

[WoWfan]

I didn’t say defeat, just overpower, along with actually damaging him.

 

[GodSlayer666]

Nerfed human Selene can cause damage to nerfed Dog Dude’s stones, Suzuki could not.

Firstly, prove that she was nerfed. Human Ignia is already at the level of DGs in their human form and fought equally with Selene in his dragon form there despite that. She was in Elentir before and we have no reasons to think the dogra cores has a immediate effect specially with current Human Ignia scaling.
Secondly she did no damage just put Lucy there and guess what

Haku can turn the creatures made of labyrinth wall into plushies, what Selene did was nothing special.

Jacob could not mount a proper defense as he was pushed back. As Invel who scales to him can freeze Natsu’s FDK flames.

Life if he had any credibility to take the punch if he mounted it, let's not forget that Mira stalled him a lot without even using a demon soul. And how do you it was FDK and not just basic fire dragon slayer magic ? Natsu also used basic fire dragon slayer magic against Jacob for most of their fight and not seeing any FDK name in the chapter. And he broke free form it anyway.

Lucy with Brandish’s power can overpower Full Power Merc. Otherwise she would be been smooshed to a bloody paste in his mouth.

Just means that Brandish gigantification is better than Irene boosts as Neinheart was still a one shot material even with her boosts, so unless you wanna say that Brandish is massively superior to Irene this means nothing

 

[Jhonatas Fernandes]

@GodSlayer666
You're just denying very clear information given in the manga.

But even if Kirin isn't stronger than Suzaku, and instead of that, they are at the same level, what does it change about all the scenarios that Erza and Natsu fought "Suzaku's level character" without being defeated, which only proved that they didn't get serious when Suzaku defeated them.

Gray wasn't confident that Erza would defeat Misaki; he was saying that Misaki was underestimating the group by saying that he, Erza, and Gajeel could all fight her at the same time. Why do you need to lie? Gray was scaried from Suzaku because he defeated Erza quickly, but he was also scared about what happened to Erza after she came back from Misaki's dimension, and he already saw that if he or Gajeel were moved to the dimension, they would be defeated.
He didn't even want Erza to keep the fight.

-
Laxus needed to create a new finisher spell, surpassing the level of the lightning he possessed to defeat Wall. His superiority was already very low, and, nothing beyond your desire, proved that Laxus with the Red Lightning couldn't give God Serena a hard fight, which would put, as the narrative has said, God Serena as the standard of the Spriggan level.

You were pretty clear: there are Irene, August, and Larcade, and then there is the "rest" of the group, and God Serena's belong to the rest. Please don't forget that. If the three who outclassed the regular Spriggan level don't see God Serena as different than the rest, it's because God Serena and the regular level are close in overall strength. Thank you.

-
I think you have some problems in separating the plot action from the abilities of the characters. Neinhart has pretty low endurance, so yes, he can be defeated quite easily if he is hit, but his normal way of fighting is summoning his Historias while he stays behind on the battlefield, which is something that he already proved to do well. How would Laxus one-shot Neinhart while fighting one Historia of God Serena, with Neinhart concentrating all his power in this one Historia?

It's so funny that you're trying to diminish Dimaria. Once you even count the author's opinion about the strength of the Spriggans to hype God Serena's, why do you not count that Dimaria was put ABOVE God Serena in strength by the author too? So, by this logic, either she was hit by surprise, or Natsu used a serious END power to hit her (after all, he needed to overcome the time stopped and the magic seal stones in his arms).

 

[WoWfan]

God, dog dude’s labyrinth did that to all the DGs as Ignia stated. Yet she travels to other universes such as Edolas where it has no magic. So her magic would’ve in flux depending on the world considering her being away from earthland makes her less than aware of her max. And thus that stone disintegrated out of existence because two things with mass can’t overlap each other. That is hax, boy dude can’t do that for the labyrinth since it is Dog Dude’s body with his own magic, those things have their own cores, disconnected. Jacob nerfed himself in that fight which Mira in and out of verse stated. Mental state does factor into stats too when using magic. Considering those flames set the Earth ablaze just like when he used it against Zeref is proof there. Not right away which took an a chapter to do so and again was caught by Brandish and couldn’t get free. That just means that Irene’s boosts are upscale since she can affect Selene as well, enchantments can work on stronger opposing targets. Neinhart boost is like that of Dog Dude’s who’s body spills out magic rather than contain it, seeing the former just got MP boost and the later became a skeleton.

 

[Jhonatas Fernandes]

Ok, I'm all caught up now. Lol.

Natsu used FDK against Suzaku, which is stronger than LFD. The chapter explains thar Suzaku can easily cut dragon scales, so Natsu had to use the scales of a Fire Dragon King. Even if you were to argue that Natsu just covered his arms in flames to defend, Natsu himself said "These flames are the scales of a Fire Dragon King". This means he's using special FDK flames that provide better defense than dragon scales. This is durability that allows him to tank the same attack that defeated Selene in human form. Needless to say, not a single Spriggan has durability on this level, not even August or Irene.

Wrong. Natsu said that his flames were the scale of a Fire Dragon King as a way to say that his flames are as strong as Igneel's scale. He didn't put anything other than regular flames around his arms, and, worst, Natsu could tank some of Suzaku's cut directly without even covering the area with fire :]

Jacob was screaming in pain just from being near Natsu as he uses FDK. Makarov was able to throw Happy between a Jacob's hands before he could clap. Suzaku attacks are far faster than this, and Natsu trained himself to be quick enough to react to them. Natsu's FDK destruction fist filled the entire hallway with flames. If Jacob had been standing as a witness to Natsu and Suzaku's fight, Suzaku would have attacked Natsu faster than Jacob could perceive. In response, Natsu would have used FDK to defend against Suzaku's attack, also faster than Jacob could perceive. By the time Jacob realized what was happening, he would be writhing in pain from the heat of Natsu's flames, unable to clap. When Natsu attacks Suzaku with FDK destruction fist, Jacob would be taken out by the crossfire.

Jacob possesses poor endurance, yes, so what? His power basically relies on his dimension magic.

If Ignia didnt melt Suzaku's sword with a blast that melted Dogramag's labyrinth, then Ajeel isnt turning Suzaku's sword into sand. Ajeel statement of being able to turn everything he touches into sand has been contested. Elfman and Lisanna touched him a bunch of times when they beat him up. They weren't turned to sand. You are out of your mind if you think Suzaku's "dragon-scale cleaving, Natsu and Erza oneshotting, Dogramag's rock shattering, Selene's human form defeating" sword is gonna break after grazing a body that Elfman and Lisanna beat up. Plus, Im not entirely convinced that Suzaku has to make physical contact with his sword for most of his attacks.

Was Ignia trying to melt Suzaku's sword with his fire? Because when Natsu used Fire Dragon King spells around Erza, her swords didn't melt, but the swords thrown at Ajeel turned into sand. So you can't prove that the Suzaku can overcome the effect of Ajeel's magic. I already said that, once Ajeel was hit physically by Natsu and didn't get surprised by it, he obviously doesn't transform the human body into sand when it touches his body.

All that aside, the giant elephant in the room is that Ajeel lost against Erza. I dont include Ajeel in the list of wizards that beat Erza, because their fight ended with Erza knocking Ajeel unconscious and fist bumping Natsu. I know some peoppe are gonna say Erza only won with Bisca's help, but so what? Erza had all of team Natsu's help against Suzaku. Natsu got oneshotted immediately after. Gray recognized he was outclassed and ran. What difference could Bisca's have made against Suzaku? By the time Bisca fired her shot, Erza would have already been defeated. Then Suzaku would just tank the jupiter canon, and go over to oneshot Bisca. I'll give Ajeel credit where credit is due, and say that he gave Erza a extreme difficulty fight. But let's not pretend this is anywhere near comparable to how Suzaku oneshotted Erza. They not the same.

Both Erza and Natsu "went" 1 X 1 against Suzaku, and that didn't happen when Bisca helped Erza. You're not considering that Ajeel was close to cutting Erza's neck with an axe when Bisca shot at him. If Suzuku were holding his foe close to him with one hand and using the other hand to attack, I doubt he could do anything to prevent being hit. The SuperSuzaku defense is going insane.

Are we seriously going to pretend that Neinhart could have taken out both Erza and Natsu the same way Suzaku did? Neinhart summons fodders. The only reason Erza struggled with him was because she was still injured from her fight with Ajeel. All the credit I just gave to Ajeel comes straight out of Neinhart's stock. Anyways, Natsu oneshotted him. Why are we pretending he's got any way to deal with Suzaku. By the time he summons his first Historia, Suzaku would have cut him in half.

Honestly, since Erza was knocked out by breath smoke from a smoke monster, I doubt that it is hard a scenario in which Neinhart knocked out a casual and spent magic version of Erza and Natsu. A duo of Historia of Kyouka and Silver could freeze them and knock them down with extrem pain quickly, for instance.

Age Seal doesn't matter, because Suzaku doesn't need to defend against DImaria's attacks. Suzaku tanked attacks from Natsu that would have oneshotted Dimaria. He tanked a blast from Ignia that destroyed Dogramag's labyrinth, which also would have oneshotted Dimaria. He tanked Dogramag turning into a dragon and stomping him into the earth, which, you guessed it, also would have oneshotted Dimria.. Even after all that, he still didnt go down from damage. He went down because he ran out of MP. Dimaria can trap him in age seal and spam attacks at him until she's exhausted. He tanks them all. Chelia swatted Dimaria's lasers with her bare skin, and Wendy's enchantments allowed Chelia to tank shots from Dimaria at full strength. Dimaria would freeze time with age seal, exhaust her powers trying to put a dent in Suzaku, realize that Suzaku is leagues above the END-powered Natsu that brutalized her in strength, and go back to tending vegetables.

Good for him that he can tank attacks while his body is functional as a wizard, the problem is that, frozen in time, he wouldn't be able to control the magic power to enhance his defense, and could and would be damaged by Dimaria until his death if she wanted. OMG, the SuperSasuzaku is now indestructible.

Selene acknowledged that Suzaku was stronger than her human form after he beat her. That is better hype than sparring, and presumably losing to, Kirin. Gildarts level MP means nothing. Selene was flexing her Acnologia level MP when she fought Suzaku. She was causing the moon to become massive in size, and causing the waters on Earthland (in a different dimension) to flood, and her MP triggered Alter Face to start destroying the planet. This caused Mercphobia to state Selene's magic was stronger than his. All of that meant nothing to Suzaku, because he understood fights are won by dealing damage, not flexing MP.

That only means that Selene in human form isn't far from Kirin's level, ie, from Gildart's aura level, ie, from Spriggan level. Let's not forget that Suzaku has a slayer factor helping him against a dragon in a human form, which most of the Spriggan don't have.

Wall had his spine ripped from his torso from Laxus' megaton red lightning. Kirin tanked that shot. Laxus had to eat Elexion's MP for Thunder Dragon King. Thunder Dragon King's Red Lightning and Megaton Red Lightning are different attacks the same way a regular roar and FDK roar are different attacks. TDK Red Lightning is stronger. You can debate over how much, but it doesn't matter. Kirin survived an stronger attack that ripped Wall's spine from his torso. Kirin gets to talk trash to Laxus after the arc was over, claim he only used 10% of his power, and ask for a rematch. Wall doesn't get to do any of this because, again, his spine was ripped away from his torso and he died. I don't get how we can even be debating over who is portrayed to be stronger here. In a friendly spar against Kirin, Laxus would be using attacks that murders Wall.

Kirin tanked a punch. He didn't tank the same spell. But you have a point about Wall dying by the Megaton Red Lighting while Kirin was just knocked out. You're completely wrong about all the rest. Laxus consumed Elexion's soul and ripped away his lacrima (gained more power and removed the power he already had), with no significant upgrade on his level (he didn't enter dragon force, didn't activate other mode), he just consumed the source of magic power and used the same finisher spell he used against Wall. I agree that Kirin has better endurance than Wall, but that is all that has been basically proved. Because, again, Laxus was really overwhelmed because of the coffin disturbing his body. Kirin's regular lighting attack didn't prove to be stronger than the Red Lighting attacks, even before Laxus ate Elexion's magic power.

 

[GodSlayer666]

@GodSlayer666
You're just denying very clear information given in the manga.

But even if Kirin isn't stronger than Suzaku, and instead of that, they are at the same level, what does it change about all the scenarios that Erza and Natsu fought "Suzaku's level character" without being defeated, which only proved that they didn't get serious when Suzaku defeated them.

Gray wasn't confident that Erza would defeat Misaki; he was saying that Misaki was underestimating the group by saying that he, Erza, and Gajeel could all fight her at the same time. Why do you need to lie? Gray was scaried from Suzaku because he defeated Erza quickly, but he was also scared about what happened to Erza after she came back from Misaki's dimension, and he already saw that if he or Gajeel were moved to the dimension, they would be defeated.
He didn't even want Erza to keep the fight.

-
Laxus needed to create a new finisher spell, surpassing the level of the lightning he possessed to defeat Wall. His superiority was already very low, and, nothing beyond your desire, proved that Laxus with the Red Lightning couldn't give God Serena a hard fight, which would put, as the narrative has said, God Serena as the standard of the Spriggan level.

You were pretty clear: there are Irene, August, and Larcade, and then there is the "rest" of the group, and God Serena's belong to the rest. Please don't forget that. If the three who outclassed the regular Spriggan level don't see God Serena as different than the rest, it's because God Serena and the regular level are close in overall strength. Thank you.

-
I think you have some problems in separating the plot action from the abilities of the characters. Neinhart has pretty low endurance, so yes, he can be defeated quite easily if he is hit, but his normal way of fighting is summoning his Historias while he stays behind on the battlefield, which is something that he already proved to do well. How would Laxus one-shot Neinhart while fighting one Historia of God Serena, with Neinhart concentrating all his power in this one Historia?

It's so funny that you're trying to diminish Dimaria. Once you even count the author's opinion about the strength of the Spriggans to hype God Serena's, why do you not count that Dimaria was put ABOVE God Serena in strength by the author too? So, by this logic, either she was hit by surprise, or Natsu used a serious END power to hit her (after all, he needed to overcome the time stopped and the magic seal stones in his arms).

Oh, holy sht i already explained that Kirin self boast claim is as valid as dragon twins and Anchor self boasts, but you even ignored all what i said about two of the strongest meaning that they are just among the strongest, not that they are the top 2. Just consult a freaking grammar

It's no use to insist on a ''peharps'' to keep equalizing them if everything points to Suzaku being much stronger and Natsu needed a power up to beat Suzaku, don't try to act like it's not a power up, he not just has a better defense but can hit harder with the scales

Your level of reading comprehension scares me. If Gray thought that Misaki was underestimating Erza with the 3v1 stuff, so HOW HE WASN'T CONFIDENT ON ERZA THERE ? Are you pushing agenda or this is really your reading comprehension level ? You aren't even capable of understanding the meaning of ''two of the'' and is not understanding that if Gray thought vs a 1v1 with Erza was enough he was confident on her. Gray never said that Misaki was a level above Erza even after her first attack, she just thought that she wouldn't able to handle Misaki after she received hours of pain, but by Misaki magic power alone he was confident on Erza.

He just needed to bypass the immunity of the spriggan who abused of plot armor. Not saying Laxus couldn't give Serena a hard time, i'm saying that Ajeel and Wall can't give Serena a hard time.

Serena>>>Larcade, try to debunk me

You have reading comprehension problems, neither Ajeel nor Wall have any hax for you to keep pushing this stupid excuse, which shouldn't even be valid as Youko is also a summoner and is not a trash like Fodderheart. Historia Serena is still a small fry, Laxus would solo Neinhart and the sprigga historias because they are much below BDSK level, same for Jellal

Because Mashima NEVER HAVE PUT Dimaria>Serena. He put August, Irene>rest of spriggans>Wall. He was just mentioning Larcade, Dimaria and Serena as he was remembering them, otherwise he would have put a greater than sign or anything to point a hierarchy, why this is necessary ? Because he literally used it after August and Irene, he at least put then and then after Acnologia and Serena here

While there was nothing to indicate a hierarchy between Larcade, Dimaria and Serena, nothing, not even numbers. And Dimaria being in this position after being fodderized by END makes zero sense. The only explanation for Dimaria to be stronger than Serena is her hax working on him, and if her hax works on him why it wouldn't work on a Larcade ? It would even work on Irene and August if that's the case and then even their position would be questioned, but specially Larcade has no argument against Dimaria in this case, so in no world Dimaria being 4th strongest spriggan makes sense, no reason to assume that without a clear hierarchy. My logic is that Dimaria is a weakling like the others.

 

[Axiomus]

Wrong. Natsu said that his flames were the scale of a Fire Dragon King as a way to say that his flames are as strong as Igneel's scale. He didn't put anything other than regular flames around his arms, and, worst, Natsu could tank some of Suzaku's cut directly without even covering the area with fire :]

If Natsu's flames provided Natsu defense on par with Igneel's scales, that puts Natsu's durability leagues above any Spriggans. Also, we can see the scales on Natsu's body. The second image has Natsu explaining that he would have died if he hadn't used all his magic power for defense, which is something he's never had to do before.

Jacob possesses poor endurance, yes, so what? His power basically relies on his dimension magic.

So long as we're in agreement that Jacob is not on Suzaku's level when it comes to hand to hand combat.

Was Ignia trying to melt Suzaku's sword with his fire? Because when Natsu used Fire Dragon King spells around Erza, her swords didn't melt, but the swords thrown at Ajeel turned into sand. So you can't prove that the Suzaku can overcome the effect of Ajeel's magic. I already said that, once Ajeel was hit physically by Natsu and didn't get surprised by it, he obviously doesn't transform the human body into sand when it touches his body.

It doesn't matter what Ignia was trying to do. He hit Suzaku and Natsu point blank, and the blast destroyed much of Dogramag's labyrinth. Suzaku's durability had to be tougher than said labyrinth. Natsu isn't even hitting Erza with his attacks. She's just in his general area. She's not in the middle of his attack.

Both Erza and Natsu "went" 1 X 1 against Suzaku, and that didn't happen when Bisca helped Erza. You're not considering that Ajeel was close to cutting Erza's neck with an axe when Bisca shot at him. If Suzuku were holding his foe close to him with one hand and using the other hand to attack, I doubt he could do anything to prevent being hit. The SuperSuzaku defense is going insane.

Suzaku is faster than Ajeel. By the time Erza realized what was going on, she was already defeated. I'm saying Bisca's assistence wouldn't have made a difference if the entirety of team Natsu didn't make a difference. Last time I checked, Jupiter Canon doesn't exactly blitz people.

Also, why would Suzaku need to hold unto Erza? Ajeel needs to do it because that's the only way he could deal with Erza after she whipped out her water and wind swords. He needs to use sand world hide from Erza's attacks. He needs to grab her and start dehydrating her with his powers. Suzaku needs none of that. He can just swing through Erza's defenses. There is no scenario in which Suzaku needs to resort to holding on to Erza. He just needs to attack.

Honestly, since Erza was knocked out by breath smoke from a smoke monster, I doubt that it is hard a scenario in which Neinhart knocked out a casual and spent magic version of Erza and Natsu. A duo of Historia of Kyouka and Silver could freeze them and knock them down with extrem pain quickly, for instance.

Has Suzaku or Natsu ever been knocked out by a smoke monster? Slayers, and Natsu specifically, have been known to get power ups from just eating stuff. Gajeel got a power-up from eating MBPs. Whose to say that Natsu and Suzaku don't just figure out how to use spiritual arts from eating the smoke? The days of Silver being able to freeze Natsu for any meaningful amount of time are long over. If Gray can't do it, neither can Silver. Extreme pain is overrated, because there's a physical limit to how much pain your nerves can feel. If Natsu can push through Aldoron impaling his entire body with thorns, he can endure whatever pain Kyouka can throw at him.

Good for him that he can tank attacks while his body is functional as a wizard, the problem is that, frozen in time, he wouldn't be able to control the magic power to enhance his defense, and could and would be damaged by Dimaria until his death if she wanted. OMG, the SuperSasuzaku is now indestructible.

When Suzaku is frozen in time, his body remains in whatever state it was in when it was initially frozen. It'd be no different than whenever he gets caught off guard by an attack, like when he took hits from Selene. Dragon Slayers have enhanced physical attributes that are active at all times, or at least, so long as they have magic power left. Nothing says you lose your magic while frozen in time.

Suzaku isn't indestructible. He's just capable of tanking everything Dimaria can throw at him.

That only means that Selene in human form isn't far from Kirin's level, ie, from Gildart's aura level, ie, from Spriggan level. Let's not forget that Suzaku has a slayer factor helping him against a dragon in a human form, which most of the Spriggan don't have.

Ummmm no. It means flexing MP doesn't really matter. Selene has Acnologia level MP, which is far above any other character. Suzaku hits harder, despite having vastly inferior MP. The jury is still out on whether or not Kirin can match Suzaku. That depends entirely on how Laxus' stacks up against Selene. I'm inclined to believe Selene has better durability than Laxus, because she can hold her own against Aldoron

Kirin tanked a punch. He didn't tank the same spell. But you have a point about Wall dying by the Megaton Red Lighting while Kirin was just knocked out. You're completely wrong about all the rest. Laxus consumed Elexion's soul and ripped away his lacrima (gained more power and removed the power he already had), with no significant upgrade on his level (he didn't enter dragon force, didn't activate other mode), he just consumed the source of magic power and used the same finisher spell he used against Wall. I agree that Kirin has better endurance than Wall, but that is all that has been basically proved. Because, again, Laxus was really overwhelmed because of the coffin disturbing his body. Kirin's regular lighting attack didn't prove to be stronger than the Red Lighting attacks, even before Laxus ate Elexion's magic power.

Kirin tanked megaton red lightning in the first round. Then proceeded to whoop Laxus. Then the labyrinth shifted.

Spoiler

In their rematch, Laxus got a power up and used "Thunder Dragon King's Red Lightning".

Spoiler

I posted the images in Japanese so you can compare the names.
The first attack was 雷汞 赩御雷 (Raiko Akamikazuchi). This is the same attack that killed Wall.
The second attack is 雷竜王赩御雷 (Rai-Ryu-Ou Akamikazuchi). This is the powered up version of the attack that knocked out Kirin.

Eating Elexion's soul would have had to be a significant power-up because Red Lightning went from being tankable to knocking Kirin out.
It's pretty much the same difference between Natsu's base mode and FDK.

 

[WoWfan]

There is a difference between the red lighting he used against Kirin and the times with Erza and Wall, the latter 2 had more damage to strengthen the red lightning.