Discussion The Four Knights of The Apocalypse Thread

[Yakkun]

If he can do this then he can do this to all the STs(I doubt he can)..



I know. But did the Sacred Tree create the weapon? Or did Dubs use it as raw material to forge it?

Do we have databook confirmation on Dubs' age? Because unless he was there 3000 years ago, then I doubt he created Chastifol because the forms correspond to all fairy kings, even from long in the past.

 

[Demonspeed]

Do we have databook confirmation on Dubs' age? Because unless he was there 3000 years ago, then I doubt he created Chastifol because the forms correspond to all fairy kings, even from long in the past.

He is the one who created the CoED so he is pretty old. He is also friend with Dahlia. We don't know how he managed to survive that long.

His Magic was stated to be Forge but I don't remember anything about his age.

 

[ShadowHeart]

So curious what's up with Merlin. Even in Gens vision of the Arthur his 4 perils vs Seven Deadly Sins she didn't appear.

 

[Demonspeed]

Now that we know a little more about Gawain's transformations what do you guys think of this statement?

Spoiler

It's quite obviously the form she is going to use the most. Do you think it was below 10%? I think it was exactly 10%. And the form she was using the most when she was 16 was 5%. Either that or it's her 5% now.

 

[Samael Morningstar]

Damn Balin really is strong then
Mght as well be low sins tier if not higher

 

[Yakkun]

Now that we know a little more about Gawain's transformations what do you guys think of this statement?

Spoiler

It's quite obviously the form she is going to use the most. Do you think it was below 10%? I think it was exactly 10%. And the form she was using the most when she was 16 was 5%. Either that or it's her 5% now.

Yeah I think she was trying to gaslight Percy a bit, it very likely is exactly 10% or so close to it that the difference is neglectable. It is basically like her baseline for the "grown" transformation as opposed to her natural, small form. The body shape is also closest to what we saw vs. Turret, which is probably the bare minimum she has to go.

I am convinced that there are certain benchmarks she has to hit to get to the next form unlock, so to speak. Which is probably why she trained herself up over two years. I don't mean she was doing a lot of technique work or cardio or lifting weights. Now that we know how Dawn works, she most likely worked on expanding her magic pool.

If her pool expands, then her 100% expands with it, allowing her to discover new benchmarks. This is probably how she came up with Tyrant Mode. I'd argue that even pre-timeskip she didn't have that. Or if she did, it looked nothing like it does now. Problem is, she likely has to hit a much higher expenditure of magic for that benchmark to even hit. From a writing perspective however it is great because it is a built-in limitations and doesn't make her look nearly as broken as Escanor. Because her power isn't just magically rising from nothing over passing of time, no. She actually has to burn through mana like hell to even get there and then maintain it likely burns her out - no pun intended - even faster.

And suddenly her monicker as a 4KotA - the Knight of Famine - makes so much more sense, right? Because she is literally burning magic like some people do calories in the gym, its crazy.

Back to the numbers, if her baseline muscle form requires 10%, then her Tyrant Mode probably unlocks at 50%. Giving her some leeway to adjust strength within the 10% and 50% bracket. I can't prove it but it seems reasonable.

Similarely for Tyrant Mode, the bracket is probably 50% to 90% or something like that. Past that, or exactly at 100% is her The One-form, if she has one even. Past that, we don't know. Might not even come or it will work different from Escanor's The Ultimate One. Which I hope because I don't want her to ruin herself. Escanor's case was different, the mechanic that Sunshine was self-destructive in nature for a human worked with Escanor specifically because he emotionally and psychologically never quite healed from his self-loathing. He found a way to live with that "depression" but living for his friends and the people he loved but Escanor never truly cherished himself.

I don't see this happening to Gawain. See how I alway go on a tanget with Escanor or Gawain or Mael? Fuck, I so damned much love those characters. Sorry.

Another thing I'd like to point out about her muscle forms that I think went a bit under the radar - before she slapped Percival there, she loaded herself up with her Dawn aura. Her punch did not only sent Percival flying, it severely burned his hands when he blocked. Just from the touch.

She didn't use it on Turret since it wasn't necessary but we briefly see her aura-flex on Balin when she goes muscle mode. But since he negates all magic effects on him, we don't even see how much heat damage her Tyrant Mode would do to any other opponent.

No idea who needs to read this but for anyone even remotely thinking that Gawain's Tyrant Mode looks lame in terms of effects drastically undersells the destructive potential. Even her normal muscle mode punch on Turret sent shockwaves through the arena and did massive damage on the ring wall and the seats behind it. We have to assume that was only her 10%.

A single punch from her Tyrant Mode would probably render most oppnents into a fine red mist. I don't think she was merely boasting when she claimed that a full charge would allow her to take on Demon Mode Tristan. It sure as hell could.

 

[Demonspeed]

Yeah I think she was trying to gaslight Percy a bit, it very likely is exactly 10% or so close to it that the difference is neglectable. It is basically like her baseline for the "grown" transformation as opposed to her natural, small form. The body shape is also closest to what we saw vs. Turret, which is probably the bare minimum she has to go.

I am convinced that there are certain benchmarks she has to hit to get to the next form unlock, so to speak. Which is probably why she trained herself up over two years. I don't mean she was doing a lot of technique work or cardio or lifting weights. Now that we know how Dawn works, she most likely worked on expanding her magic pool.

I think it's 10% but we have Anne there. Maybe it's an oversight by Nakaba if she lied, or it depends on the translation. I doubt we are going to see her use odd numbers. Has to be 5% at worst.

If her pool expands, then her 100% expands with it, allowing her to discover new benchmarks. This is probably how she came up with Tyrant Mode. I'd argue that even pre-timeskip she didn't have that. Or if she did, it looked nothing like it does now. Problem is, she likely has to hit a much higher expenditure of magic for that benchmark to even hit. From a writing perspective however it is great because it is a built-in limitations and doesn't make her look nearly as broken as Escanor. Because her power isn't just magically rising from nothing over passing of time, no. She actually has to burn through mana like hell to even get there and then maintain it likely burns her out - no pun intended - even faster.

And suddenly her monicker as a 4KotA - the Knight of Famine - makes so much more sense, right? Because she is literally burning magic like some people do calories in the gym, its crazy.

Back to the numbers, if her baseline muscle form requires 10%, then her Tyrant Mode probably unlocks at 50%. Giving her some leeway to adjust strength within the 10% and 50% bracket. I can't prove it but it seems reasonable.
Similarely for Tyrant Mode, the bracket is probably 50% to 90% or something like that. Past that, or exactly at 100% is her The One-form, if she has one even. Past that, we don't know. Might not even come or it will work different from Escanor's The Ultimate One. Which I hope because I don't want her to ruin herself. Escanor's case was different, the mechanic that Sunshine was self-destructive in nature for a human worked with Escanor specifically because he emotionally and psychologically never quite healed from his self-loathing. He found a way to live with that "depression" but living for his friends and the people he loved but Escanor never truly cherished himself.

I don't see this happening to Gawain. See how I alway go on a tanget with Escanor or Gawain or Mael? Fuck, I so damned much love those characters. Sorry.

Another thing I'd like to point out about her muscle forms that I think went a bit under the radar - before she slapped Percival there, she loaded herself up with her Dawn aura. Her punch did not only sent Percival flying, it severely burned his hands when he blocked. Just from the touch.

She didn't use it on Turret since it wasn't necessary but we briefly see her aura-flex on Balin when she goes muscle mode. But since he negates all magic effects on him, we don't even see how much heat damage her Tyrant Mode would do to any other opponent.

No idea who needs to read this but for anyone even remotely thinking that Gawain's Tyrant Mode looks lame in terms of effects drastically undersells the destructive potential. Even her normal muscle mode punch on Turret sent shockwaves through the arena and did massive damage on the ring wall and the seats behind it. We have to assume that was only her 10%.

A single punch from her Tyrant Mode would probably render most oppnents into a fine red mist. I don't think she was merely boasting when she claimed that a full charge would allow her to take on Demon Mode Tristan. It sure as hell could.

I think she was less flexible at 16. She mentioned her full charge in the Demon Realm and said she could have defeated Black Tristan with it.. I find Dawn better than Sunshine, at least Sunshine within Escanor because he was useless at night. He had convenience going for him during his fights. Tyrant Mode probably starts at 80% and she has other names for 50% etc. Since she showed that she can do partial transformation, we might see her transform specific parts of her body at a high percentage while keeping other limbs at a lesser percentage to conserve energy etc.

My headcanon is that she has two "gauges", her normal one and another for Dawn only, but I could be wrong. She has shown complete exhaustion twice and Dawn is also tied to her hunger and stamina IIRC. Does she recharge herself by eating and sleeping or does she need only sunlight? Because if she can do this with sunlight only how does she run out of energy during the day?

 

[Yakkun]

I think it's 10% but we have Anne there. Maybe it's an oversight by Nakaba if she lied, or it depends on the translation. I doubt we are going to see her use odd numbers. Has to be 5% at worst.



I think she was less flexible at 16. She mentioned her full charge in the Demon Realm and said she could have defeated Black Tristan with it.. I find Dawn better than Sunshine, at least Sunshine within Escanor because he was useless at night. He had convenience going for him during his fights. Tyrant Mode probably starts at 80% and she has other names for 50% etc. Since she showed that she can do partial transformation, we might see her transform specific parts of her body at a high percentage while keeping other limbs at a lesser percentage to conserve energy etc.

My headcanon is that she has two "gauges", her normal one and another for Dawn only, but I could be wrong. She has shown complete exhaustion twice and Dawn is also tied to her hunger and stamina IIRC. Does she recharge herself by eating and sleeping or does she need only sunlight? Because if she can do this with sunlight only how does she run out of energy during the day?

I guess she can store energy by eating and sleeping a well but the sunlight is the most efficient because her power is mostly tailored for it and the sun is not going to run out anytime soon, lol

 

[Mountain-Photo-165]

Can we be honest about Percy ? , Percy doesn't feel like the MC anymore.

While had that Gon aura around him pre-timeskip as he was interesting and more involved within the plot of life spirits but that all ended with his death , now he came back more confident and lost the Gon aura , the plot isn't even around him anymore , the plot moves him , he doesn't move the plot , the MC should be more invovled with the plot than the rest but Percy is less involved than anybody which isn't a good look for an MC but it's not necessarily his fault.

Percy served as the start of this sequel as we needed to be away from the sins atmosphere to start a new story , he was the perfect choice but at the end of the day we had to go back to the original story , where the sins and their offsprint by default are involved , currently Lancelot seems the most involved and Percy seems the least involved which is strange for an MC and not good for the manga , Nakaba even had him married , as if he's trying to sideline him even further while Lancelot is gonna marry more later than the rest.

Having said that , if there's gonna be a sequel , would you rather the MC be Arthur or Lancelot ?

I think it's most likely Arthur because Lancelot is just too strong , he could be the aura farming saviour as always but as an MC ? , he simply doesn't work or there'd be no plot , Arthur on the other hand lost most of Chaos so he should be all right.

 

[Yakkun]

Can we be honest about Percy ? , Percy doesn't feel like the MC anymore.

While had that Gon aura around him pre-timeskip as he was interesting and more involved within the plot of life spirits but that all ended with his death , now he came back more confident and lost the Gon aura , the plot isn't even around him anymore , the plot moves him , he doesn't move the plot , the MC should be more invovled with the plot than the rest but Percy is less involved than anybody which isn't a good look for an MC but it's not necessarily his fault.

Percy served as the start of this sequel as we needed to be away from the sins atmosphere to start a new story , he was the perfect choice but at the end of the day we had to go back to the original story , where the sins and their offsprint by default are involved , currently Lancelot seems the most involved and Percy seems the least involved which is strange for an MC and not good for the manga , Nakaba even had him married , as if he's trying to sideline him even further while Lancelot is gonna marry more later than the rest.

Having said that , if there's gonna be a sequel , would you rather the MC be Arthur or Lancelot ?

I think it's most likely Arthur because Lancelot is just too strong , he could be the aura farming saviour as always but as an MC ? , he simply doesn't work or there'd be no plot , Arthur on the other hand lost most of Chaos so he should be all right.

I've had the same thought a little while ago. While he is still an important part of the group he has slowly crept into the background. He seems... settled. He is not on good terms with Ironside and perhaps not even Diodra but he has largely come to terms with who these people are. Ironside also seems completely unimportant in the big picture of things right now, thanks to Cath's fight in Liones which had a feeling of fatalism to it that would make Ironside and what he did feel like a mere mook's stunts in comparison. There simply are bigger fish to fry and the next weird group is also moving up into the spotlight, the Grail Knights. Perci also has two girls he loves and they love him and he's already made sure he's gonna have heirs in the future. Additionally, the 4KotA don't really travel with their platoon members anymore so the leader dynamic Perical had with Anne, Donny and Nasiens has also largely evaporated.

Compared to that, Lance's role has been written by Nakaba to be more important. He is still ahead of his teammates, he is the once that critizised - and for good reason - Arthur and Merlin when no one else did, he is kinda calling the shots while staying very level-headed and has no notions of grandeurism and isn't a braggard. My views on Lancelot are complicated but it would be blatant self-deception to say he hasn't delivered on all fronts barring a few scenes I am conflicted about. Compared to Lancelot, his teammates often seem like side-kicks, sadly. He is largery than life, perhaps TOO large. WHich makes me wonder if Nakaba plans something catastrophically bad for him the future that will give the others some more spotlight again and make Perci feel more like the MC again.

I don't believe in a sequel, to answer your question and I would want neither of these two to be the MC even if there is one.

 

[Demonspeed]

I don't get that reasoning and reading this I remember the early complaints about the focus on the Percival Platoon and lack of panel time for the KoAs. Now Anne, Nasiens and Donny aren't that relevant anymore. It's the first arc where they are all together with no one else. Percival's goal isn't different from any of the three others and he has been there from the beginning. Lancelot himself was absent for a good amount of time and was replaced by Gawain as Percival's other KoA teammate from the platoon.

Lancelot criticizing Merlin is more tied to his personality than anything else and if we want to talk about involvement then saying that Gawain is the MC makes more sense considering what they are doing right now. Lancelot's strength being highlighted (for good reason) doesn't really make him more important than the rest.

 

[Mountain-Photo-165]

Don't get me wrong , Percy is still vital as one of 4kota , the dnyamic between the 4kota is awesome but I'm merely talking about his role as the MC , Percy simply doesn't feel like the MC anymore which is funny considering he has the most MC coded power in fiction because Hope is literally the power of friendship.

Lancelot's importance isn't just about his strength , his character as a whole , he's the aura farming stoic , cool , calm and collected character , this type of character is common for Manhwa MCs , SJW is a perfect example or in Japanese manga Ichigo is a perfect example , this type of character always steals the attention from everybody else.

Compared to him , the rest feel like sidekicks as you guys mentioned but however I'm still clinging to the hope that the 4kota are about to recieve an awakening in this arc , just like the sins did in the prequel , which would give Nakaba the chance to modify their characters and their roles within the group.

 

[Demonspeed]

With the incessant debates about Lancelot's strength, I want to ask something.

1. Lancelot(no weapons) VS King, Ban and Meliodas(one on one). Do you think he wins?
2. Same but Lancelot has Shirojika this time.
3. Lancelot(no weapons) against the three of them together.
4. Same but with Shirojika.

 

[Mountain-Photo-165]

With the incessant debates about Lancelot's strength, I want to ask something.

1. Lancelot(no weapons) VS King, Ban and Meliodas(one on one). Do you think he wins?
2. Same but Lancelot has Shirojika this time.
3. Lancelot(no weapons) against the three of them together.
4. Same but with Shirojika.

I believe Lancelot is already above the Seven Deadly Sins post-timeskip, officially taking his place in the god tier as the God of War. His feat against the Four Perils proves this because he accomplished something the Sins themselves were unable to do. While the Sins couldn't neutralize the Perils, Lancelot did so effortlessly in a single attack. What makes this even crazier is that he did it entirely in his base form without even getting serious.

1-Absolutely
2-Absolutely
3-Absolutely
4-Absolutely

 

[Demonspeed]

I believe Lancelot is already above the Seven Deadly Sins post-timeskip, officially taking his place in the god tier as the God of War. His feat against the Four Perils proves this because he accomplished something the Sins themselves were unable to do. While the Sins couldn't neutralize the Perils, Lancelot did so effortlessly in a single attack. What makes this even crazier is that he did it entirely in his base form without even getting serious.

1-Absolutely
2-Absolutely
3-Absolutely
4-Absolutely

Difficulty?

 

[Yakkun]

Bruh, at this point there needs to be a Lancelot Discussion Megathreat or something so it doesn't derail basically every chapter.

That said:

Is this scenario w/ bloodlust and the Sins with their STs? I assume so.

1) King - yes / Ban - maybe / Meliodas - yes
2) Yes
3) No
4) Yes

 

[Mountain-Photo-165]

Difficulty?

It is hard to say for sure since we have never seen Lancelot get serious post-timeskip. However, if his power-up is anything like the drastic strength boosts he used to get pre-timeskip, these fights should be a low-to-mid-diff victory for him.

 

[Yakkun]

It is hard to say for sure since we have never seen Lancelot get serious post-timeskip. However, if his power-up is anything like the drastic strength boosts he used to get pre-timeskip, these fights should be a low-to-mid-diff victory for him.

The only one he should have some difficulty with is the team fight due to synergy attacks the Sins can do which have very unique effects and boost their damage tremendously. I also assume for this that Meliodas can not tap into his full rage state anymore because he frankly has only done that one time in the manga and then we never saw that kind of boundless uncontrolled power again. It was more of a plot device much like him having Demon King powers which never became relevant again.

 

[Mountain-Photo-165]

The only one he should have some difficulty with is the team fight due to synergy attacks the Sins can do which have very unique effects and boost their damage tremendously. I also assume for this that Meliodas can not tap into his full rage state anymore because he frankly has only done that one time in the manga and then we never saw that kind of boundless uncontrolled power again. It was more of a plot device much like him having Demon King powers which never became relevant again.

I think Meliodas's Berserk Mode is just him losing control over his darkness powers. Assault Mode is way better since he actually has that darkness under control. His True Magic form was even better because he didn't have a single shred of darkness on him—with that all-white outfit he wears, he honestly looks more like a Goddess than a Demon in that form.

 

[Yakkun]

I think Meliodas's Berserk Mode is just him losing control over his darkness powers. Assault Mode is way better since he actually has that darkness under control. His True Magic form was even better because he didn't have a single shred of darkness on him—with that all-white outfit he wears, he honestly looks more like a Goddess than a Demon in that form.

I guess that's just how that power originating from the Demon King manifests. When the DK took over his body he was also dressed in white and gold, such a stark contrast to the black and red we got from Zeldris. And Zeldris was a secondary choice. Mel was always the perfect vessel for the DK, that's what his father tried to groom him into all those millenia. I wouldn't say he didn't have a shredd of darkness in him. It's just that this is the physical manifestation of a vessel the closest to the perfect Demon King form. I wish we could have seen the DK in his original body during his prime.