Discussion The Official FUG Discussion Thread

[kkck]

FUG has taken a prominent role in the story since season 2 started and they keeping getting more important by the day. However even then it is fairly clear that fug is not a very homogeneous organization. Which thinking about it kinda makes sense given it's basic structure. 11 slayers, each of which is regarded as a god by members.... That means 11 different religions within the organization, potentially 11 different ideologies and so on. Add to that the fact that we have seen different factions at work at different times. The following are the ones I can identify so far but I expect more will appear.

The first and most important faction is the one that specifically supports baam. The ones that wanted baam to have the thorn so that he would slay zahard. Hwa ryun and jingsung ha belong to this faction. And jinsung ha seems to report directly to luslec which means luslec is also a part of this faction. Considering luslec is the highest ranked member of fug, its founder and leader perhaps we can call this the mainstream wing of fug.

Then there is the section of fug that karaka belongs to. I am not 100% sure if karaka is the sole force in fug behind it or if there are other slayers that go along with him. In any case his view is that baam shouldn't be trusted and it would have been better to melt baam to have a weapon with the power of an irregular. This faction, while sharing the same objective as the first, due to its methods would stand in direct opposition to the other guys.

And now the probable third faction I have been able to identify. Now, with this one I am not 100% sure of what the situation is or where exactly they stand because while they are relevant they are also somewhat passive recently. Let me elaborate. At the floor of tests we saw that rachel betrayed baam. She did this to become the heroine of the story. And we know rachel was in contact with fug because she met with hwa ryun and was even asked what it felt like to be the heroine. On the other hand baam went on to be trained by jinsung ha.

Now, here is where it gets tricky. Hwa ryun seems to be very overtly on baam's side. She has gone along with him and offered her guide powers for him to use as he pleases. And in turn, this has not been necessarily beneficial to rachel whom she seemingly supported earlier. However during season 2 we did see fug people specifically supporting her. There were 2 fugs that infiltrated koon's team and killed the bird person. They even left a fug graffiti in koon's house.

but then... We never saw those two again. We saw rachel get emily which she has been using to her convenience since. She even set on to free white. However later on when karaka appeared this seemed to be beyond her plans. Karaka does not give 1 fuck about her at all either. If she stopped existing altogether karaka would not be able to tell at all.

So... what is up with this faction? It seems like they kinda took over helping rachel over the mainstream fug faction but even that has been done passively considering how absent they seem. As if they also stopped caring about rachel halfway through. I was wondering if perhaps they were the mainstream faction that simply stopped caring about rachel because of how sad and pathetic she is but that doesn't seem to quite add up, specially if they are pro baam since what rachel has done even puts baam at legitimate risk. '

Anyways, any thoughts? Did I miss anything? Any other factions that I might have missed?

 

[Brian Taboada]

This does not contribute much but the way I see it, there are two easily identifiable FUG factions:

1. Luslec/Baam/Ha Jinsung
2. Karaka/White/Madoraco/Baylord Yama

Then there are the unknowns:

• Rachel - I agree that Rachel does not seem to fit into either of the two identified factions. Perhaps she thought she did and was merely being used. But who would be on her side if she was yet another faction?
• Yu Han Sung - I think he is in with Baam but could be wrong
• hwa ryun - She holds her cards very closely and lies a lot. Could be in either group.

Then there are certain characters that I suspect may have some affiliation although not officially FUG:

• Gustang - He is either friendly toward or secretly affiliated with Luslec

 

[kkck]

This does not contribute much but the way I see it, there are two easily identifiable FUG factions:

1. Luslec/Baam/Ha Jinsung
2. Karaka/White/Madoraco/Baylord Yama

Then there are the unknowns:

• Rachel - I agree that Rachel does not seem to fit into either of the two identified factions. Perhaps she thought she did and was merely being used. But who would be on her side if she was yet another faction?
• Yu Han Sung - I think he is in with Baam but could be wrong
• hwa ryun - She holds her cards very closely and lies a lot. Could be in either group.

Then there are certain characters that I suspect may have some affiliation although not officially FUG:

• Gustang - He is either friendly toward or secretly affiliated with Luslec
• Lo Po Bia Ren - I know he is part of the Royal Enforcement Division but he seems to show up in places that seems to align him with the Karaka group.

Well, rachel currently seems to be either ignored or at best loosely supported by FUG. We haven't seen any meaningful support for her since... I am guessing since she got emily. That has to require some FUG support at least. Otherwise a regular entering and taking a freaking ignition weapon is weird. emily was about to be discarded but she was also shown to have been discovered to be valuable...

Yu han sung and hwa ryun seem fairly clearly in the baam camp at least. It was yu hang sung that delivered baam to jinsung and his faction after all.

It kinda does look like fug merely aimed to get rachel to betray baam so that they could get him but the scenario is still weird. Wouldn't it have been better for fug to have kept the two around so that they could have a spare? Rachel was just as meltable as baam when it comes to making weapons with the power of irregulars... Why not go for that option? There even are multiple thorn pieces around. I say there rachel is at the most loosely supported by fug but even that seems wildly optimistic considering she wasn't even considered as a part of the thorn.

I agree about gustang. His history alone along with his convenient intervention at the workshop battle are fairly strong evidence.

How do you get that about ren? We haven't seen him in a while but the only time we did see him was hunting anak. Since then his only other mention was when his family went after androsi. I am not sure of how you get fug into this....

 

[Brian Taboada]

How do you get that about ren? We haven't seen him in a while but the only time we did see him was hunting anak. Since then his only other mention was when his family went after androsi. I am not sure of how you get fug into this....

You are right. I was thinking of the submerged fish test where Baam came into the hands of FUG. But was recollection was faulty.

 

[Ripcord]

Just a quick comment. I'm not sure what faction Rachel belongs to. I doubt it's the one supporting Baam because she's been opposed to him from the start. They'd drop her like a hot potato.

My guess would be there is a faction that keeps her around as insurance in case Baam doesn't work out. Kinda like a Luke and Leia thing without being twins.

The last point is that even if Rachel thought she was killing Baam (and her lack of surprise at seeing him later indicates she knew she wasn't) on the floor of the tests, Hwa Ryun knew what Rachel was doing to get Baam into the hands of Ha Jinsung without Zahard knowing it. I know you say "what's the point" but Yu Han Sung said just that, that Zahard will think Baam is dead. Take that with Hwa Ryun's position and we know that Yu Han Sung is with the main faction of FUG.

 

[Demonspeed]

I think it's fairly simple. Luslec is the leader and most follow him unconditionally. He said Baam is their next God, so most will accept that. And there are other members who obey other Slayers not because they are against FUG's ideals, but because of other priorities, every Slayer has probably subordinates like this. When Reflejo tried to kill Baam, he was well aware that it was betrayal but he was loyal to Karaka because he shared his opinion. It doesn't mean that all his subordinates would do the same. I would not say that there are defined factions with their set of priorities.

 

[OneEye]

I agree with the idea that slayers are fundamentally meant for special assignments. It seems that being a slayer is not just about strength, potential and special skills. There are two other factors that seem to count:
1 ) the strong will to bring about some changes in the Tower system, at the very risk of losing one's own life: this is best illustrated by Karaka and Jue Viole Grace ( an official candidate Slayer). Karaka has fought both Yuri and Urek, without fearing for his own life, and somehow survived both of them. He wasn't even scared of Hell Joe's anger (a baby guardian). Viole too, on his part attacked Hoaqin, Kaiser and wanted to fight Hell Joe, caring less about their respective histories, the power differences and his chances of winning. I think that is who a slayer is: someone who's always ready to jump into Hell before thinking, without measuring the consequences.

The known high Rankers in Fug seem to fear the consequences of their own actions:Yu Hangsung was scared of the consequences against the Lo Po Bia family, Madoracco was scared of opposing Gustang ( whereas Karaka wasn't scared, and survived Mazino) Augusgus may not want to lose his job, and Jinsung too seem not to like taking risks ( he tried to stop Baam from risking his life).

A slayer is a risk taker. Not just a strong figure, but someone who readily accepts impossible missions; that's why they're celebrated as living gods among men, who are expected to perform miracle. Ha Jinsung simply preferred to trust Viole, a weakling as compared to him, with the task of bringing about a change in the Tower.

--- Double Post Merged, Jun 18, 2017, Original Post Date: Jun 18, 2017 ---

2) Considering White, slayers seem to have a mad thirst for battles: they seem to live for fights and dislike peaceful moments or even taking peaceful paths in life. Jue Viole and White both feel at home in the Hell Train. They later both wanted the Floor of Death. That's who slayers are: people who so much love battles that they breed fear in those who love peace.

Yu Hangsung, though a High Ranker, prefers the peaceful moments with his/ her tea

 

[kkck]

I agree with the idea that slayers are fundamentally meant for special assignments. It seems that being a slayer is not just about strength, potential and special skills. There are two other factors that seem to count:
1 ) the strong will to bring about some changes in the Tower system, at the very risk of losing one's own life: this is best illustrated by Karaka and Jue Viole Grace ( an official candidate Slayer). Karaka has fought both Yuri and Urek, without fearing for his own life, and somehow survived both of them. He wasn't even scared of Hell Joe's anger (a baby guardian). Viole too, on his part attacked Hoaqin, Kaiser and wanted to fight Hell Joe, caring less about their respective histories, the power differences and his chances of winning. I think that is who a slayer is: someone who's always ready to jump into Hell before thinking, without measuring the consequences.

The known high Rankers in Fug seem to fear the consequences of their own actions:Yu Hangsung was scared of the consequences against the Lo Po Bia family, Madoracco was scared of opposing Gustang ( whereas Karaka wasn't scared, and survived Mazino) Augusgus may not want to lose his job, and Jinsung too seem not to like taking risks ( he tried to stop Baam from risking his life).

A slayer is a risk taker. Not just a strong figure, but someone who readily accepts impossible missions; that's why they're celebrated as living gods among men, who are expected to perform miracle. Ha Jinsung simply preferred to trust Viole, a weakling as compared to him, with the task of bringing about a change in the Tower.

--- Double Post Merged, Jun 18, 2017, Original Post Date: Jun 18, 2017 ---

2) Considering White, slayers seem to have a mad thirst for battles: they seem to live for fights and dislike peaceful moments or even taking peaceful paths in life. Jue Viole and White both feel at home in the Hell Train. They later both wanted the Floor of Death. That's who slayers are: people who so much love battles that they breed fear in those who love peace.

Yu Hangsung, though a High Ranker, prefers the peaceful moments with his/ her tea

Strong will seems a tad too vague. SIU has made the point that high rankers are the top 1% of all rankers and there are about 1000 of them. Which means the total number of rankers is about 100000. In a tower that has multiple billions of people on each floor. "strong will" seems like something that should be common and ordinary among rankers. I am not too sure about the risk taking part. Sure, madoraco was did not oppose gustang. However in context opposing gustang could reasonably be called anything between moron and blatantly stupid. Gustang probably can foderize 100 madoracos and that does not even consider his immortality. It is true karaka fought yuri and urek, which is blatantly stupid, but the implication is that he was using spells and perhaps was not nearly at as much risk as we thought. To me what you are suggesting is that to be a slayer you have to be an actual, certified, proven moron. The stuff you are suggesting is not that they take missions where odds are against them but rather missions that are literally impossible. As in, fighting unmovable laws of the universe impossible (say, your suggestion of whatever it is a slayer would have done against gustang that madoraco didn't do).

 

[OneEye]

Strong will seems a tad too vague. SIU has made the point that high rankers are the top 1% of all rankers and there are about 1000 of them. Which means the total number of rankers is about 100000. In a tower that has multiple billions of people on each floor. "strong will" seems like something that should be common and ordinary among rankers. I am not too sure about the risk taking part. Sure, madoraco was did not oppose gustang. However in context opposing gustang could reasonably be called anything between moron and blatantly stupid. Gustang probably can foderize 100 madoracos and that does not even consider his immortality. It is true karaka fought yuri and urek, which is blatantly stupid, but the implication is that he was using spells and perhaps was not nearly at as much risk as we thought. To me what you are suggesting is that to be a slayer you have to be an actual, certified, proven moron. The stuff you are suggesting is not that they take missions where odds are against them but rather missions that are literally impossible. As in, fighting unmovable laws of the universe impossible (say, your suggestion of whatever it is a slayer would have done against gustang that madoraco didn't do).

I damn love your reply; it's so well thought. I read it so many times and thought I would die laughing!

It's true that it's actually hard to fully understand Slayers, for now:

1) Karaka, for instance, keeps doing stupid things.He attacks the wrong guys and fails; plus he even misguided a fellow Slayer, White, even though he's a scout !!! He counters the will of Fug elders and even disobeyed his former master, Ha Jinsung, about leaving Viole alone. That is, the guy longs to kill a fellow candidate Slayer! Just what sense does that make?

2) White, on the other hand stupidly thought he could absorb a billion souls in the Tower and go unpunished. Not to count the fact that he keeps dreaming of a rematch with Baam, the very person who kicked his ass in the Hell Train, and left him for dead. He actually takes pleasure dreaming of one day defeating the 5th strongest in the Tower, his father!!! With what plan? This guy would surely not run away if he were to meet the Princess who defeated him; Karaka had to stop him from going towards Baam and Urek !!! Just another crazy slayer.

3) What we know, for now, about another Slayer is that he's called Baylord Yama, the "strongest Mad Dog": that is, there is "madness" in his name !!! Literally, a dog is called "mad" when it does unreasonable things! And Imort (another Slayer) helped him in his madness.

4) As for Madoracco and Gustang, it reminds me of the candidate Slayer, Viole, stupidly threatening Karaka, a full Slayer, whom he could not defeat back then. Yuri had to save his ass, by almost killing his own friends!

Yeah, madness and stupidity are parts of being a slayer, it seems.The very definition of a Slayer:"one who kills Zahard and the Ten families" embodies madness for ordinary citizens in the Tower; it reminds us of Spartacus trying to take down Rome (a suicide mission). Slayers are all suicidal and fancy suicide missions (Baam inclusive).

The known high rankers in Fug, who are more logical in their thinking, who lack the inherent madness and insanity (who aren't suicidal) are not slayers, despite their strengths.

If such "certified morons" are celebrated as a "living gods of Fug" , then what else could be the qualities of a Slayer, apart from "always somehow surviving suicide missions"? Isn't it crazy that White survived that princess?

Thanks again for your reply

 

[kkck]

I damn love your reply; it's so well thought. I read it so many times and thought I would die laughing!

It's true that it's actually hard to fully understand Slayers, for now:

1) Karaka, for instance, keeps doing stupid things.He attacks the wrong guys and fails; plus he even misguided a fellow Slayer, White, even though he's a scout !!! He counters the will of Fug elders and even disobeyed his former master, Ha Jinsung, about leaving Viole alone. That is, the guy longs to kill a fellow candidate Slayer! Just what sense does that make?

2) White, on the other hand stupidly thought he could absorb a billion souls in the Tower and go unpunished. Not to count the fact that he keeps dreaming of a rematch with Baam, the very person who kicked his ass in the Hell Train. He actually takes pleasure dreaming of one day defeating the 5th strongest in the Tower, his father!!! With what plan? This guy would surely not run away if he were to meet the Princess who defeated him; Karaka had to stop him from going towards Baam and Urek !!! Just another crazy slayer.

3) What we know, for now, about another Slayer is that he's called Yama, the "Mad Dog": that is, there is "madness" in his name !!! Literally, a dog is called "mad" when it does unreasonable things!

4) As for Madoracco and Gustang, it reminds me of the candidate Slayer, Viole, stupidly threatening Karaka, a full Slayer, whom he could not defeat back then. Yuri had to save his ass, by almost killing his own friends!

Yeah, madness and stupidity are parts of being a slayer, it seems.The very definition of a Slayer:"one who kills Zahard and the Ten families" embodies madness for ordinary citizens in the Tower; it reminds us of Spartacus trying to take down Rome (a suicide mission).

The known high rankers in Fug, who are more logical in their thinking, who lack the inherent madness and insanity (who aren't suicidal) are not slayers, despite their strengths.

If such morons are celebrated as a "living gods of Fug" , then what the hell are the qualities of a Slayer?

Thanks again for your reply

Well, karaka is reckless though I wouldn't necessarily say he is outright stupid. Even in his recklessness he keeps a calm head somehow and manages to pull through. Take the fight with yuri, he managed to discern in the face of certain death that yuri was protecting the kids and managed to get to baam thanks to that at the risk of his own life. His entire bit at the workshop was reasonably well thought out except that he was ultimately outmaneuvered.

As for white, his rematch is not that crazy. Baam pulled through because he tapped into the power of the souls but remove that and white at that point outclassed baam with a decent margin. And probably still does. As for white taking out hon, well that is insane but he did have a plan. Of course, it was to keep growing stronger through devouring souls. Beyond that I wouldn't expect white to want or need a plan because he wants to be legitimately stronger than hon.

As for mad dog, well, the mad dogs are a type of fighter right? Like the top e rank that we saw back at the workshop arc. Sure, the mad part is in the name but we know that this doesn't specifically refer to their actual madness. Of course, given what we know of his background he could well be insane.

It is true that madness might be correlated with being a slayer though given the magnitude of the scope of what they are doing. However the key word there is correlation. To me it still looks like the key feature slayers have is spells that could seriously harm the empire somehow. White with absorbing souls, karaka with his own variety of immortality, yama with his mad dog powers... With baam they are specifically going for his irregular status.

 

[OneEye]

Well, karaka is reckless though I wouldn't necessarily say he is outright stupid. Even in his recklessness he keeps a calm head somehow and manages to pull through. Take the fight with yuri, he managed to discern in the face of certain death that yuri was protecting the kids and managed to get to baam thanks to that at the risk of his own life. His entire bit at the workshop was reasonably well thought out except that he was ultimately outmaneuvered. I am not so sure about what you mean about karaka misguiding white though. Karaka took white to the shortest path to the exit that gave them the best chance to avoid any encounters. It was unlucky that taking the souls basically summoned gustang and that there was a curse with the souls white took.

As for white, his rematch is not that crazy. Baam pulled through because he tapped into the power of the souls but remove that and white at that point outclassed baam with a decent margin. And probably still does. As for white taking out hon, well that is insane but he did have a plan. Of course, it was to keep growing stronger through devouring souls. Beyond that I wouldn't expect white to want or need a plan because he wants to be legitimately stronger than hon.

As for mad dog, well, the mad dogs are a type of fighter right? Like the top e rank that we saw back at the workshop arc. Sure, the mad part is in the name but we know that this doesn't specifically refer to their actual madness. Of course, given what we know of his background he could well be insane.

It is true that madness might be correlated with being a slayer though given the magnitude of the scope of what they are doing. However the key word there is correlation. To me it still looks like the key feature slayers have is spells that could seriously harm the empire somehow. White with absorbing souls, karaka with his own variety of immortality, yama with his mad dog powers... With baam they are specifically going for his irregular status.

You're pretty right, the missions of Slayers may embody some craziness, but the Slayers themselves display a relatively superior thinking. They just don't daydream about their goals but get to scheme out extremely smart plans that can actually work out. In the end, it tends to take an unusual event to stop a slayer: Gustang himself had to interfere in order to stop Karaka, at the Workshop; a clone of Hoaqin had to betray him for Baam to be able to defeat him; Urek had to appear in the Fod to foil Karaka's primary objective.

Yeah, you're right; the slayers themselves are super prepared for their missions

As for the spell thing, that may be true, considering the attitudes of White and Karaka: the assurance they have when facing way stronger opponents truly suggests they rely on something other than strength: spells

 

[Ripcord]

Well, karaka is reckless though I wouldn't necessarily say he is outright stupid. Even in his recklessness he keeps a calm head somehow and manages to pull through. Take the fight with yuri, he managed to discern in the face of certain death that yuri was protecting the kids and managed to get to baam thanks to that at the risk of his own life. His entire bit at the workshop was reasonably well thought out except that he was ultimately outmaneuvered.

As for white, his rematch is not that crazy. Baam pulled through because he tapped into the power of the souls but remove that and white at that point outclassed baam with a decent margin. And probably still does. As for white taking out hon, well that is insane but he did have a plan. Of course, it was to keep growing stronger through devouring souls. Beyond that I wouldn't expect white to want or need a plan because he wants to be legitimately stronger than hon.

As for mad dog, well, the mad dogs are a type of fighter right? Like the top e rank that we saw back at the workshop arc. Sure, the mad part is in the name but we know that this doesn't specifically refer to their actual madness. Of course, given what we know of his background he could well be insane.

It is true that madness might be correlated with being a slayer though given the magnitude of the scope of what they are doing. However the key word there is correlation. To me it still looks like the key feature slayers have is spells that could seriously harm the empire somehow. White with absorbing souls, karaka with his own variety of immortality, yama with his mad dog powers... With baam they are specifically going for his irregular status.

I think it's a matter of perspective. Anyone going against Zahard or any other large faction is taking a risk and at worse you could say someone is being reckless by doing so, depending on the strength levels involved and amount of planning. I would say that at worst Karaka has been brash because of the people he's faced, but he hasn't been stupid or reckless. He can take a lot more risk because he's using at least a partial fake body most of the time.

Small digression: One thing I'm curious about is why his fake body uses his ring in the first place. I suppose if the 13 month series has abilities then those rings could have spells on them too.

Karaka is a careful planner and he realizes that the only way to beat someone who is in a better position than you (Zahard) is to take risks and do the unexpected. We saw when he fought Urek he also knows when to cut his losses. I would say when he attacked Urek initially he was careless and arrogant, so from the first attack he got lucky but after that he made a very strategic move.

 

[kkck]

I think it's a matter of perspective. Anyone going against Zahard or any other large faction is taking a risk and at worse you could say someone is being reckless by doing so, depending on the strength levels involved and amount of planning. I would say that at worst Karaka has been brash because of the people he's faced, but he hasn't been stupid or reckless. He can take a lot more risk because he's using at least a partial fake body most of the time.

Small digression: One thing I'm curious about is why his fake body uses his ring in the first place. I suppose if the 13 month series has abilities then those rings could have spells on them too.

Karaka is a careful planner and he realizes that the only way to beat someone who is in a better position than you (Zahard) is to take risks and do the unexpected. We saw when he fought Urek he also knows when to cut his losses. I would say when he attacked Urek initially he was careless and arrogant, so from the first attack he got lucky but after that he made a very strategic move.

Well, karaka was the one who picked a fight with yuri even risking his own life. That said, the issue of how reckless/stupid this was depends on how his spells work.

As for hid encounter with urek, i would give him more lenience. He didn't know who urek was after all and he retreated as soon as his defeat was obvious.

 

[Ripcord]

Well, karaka was the one who picked a fight with yuri even risking his own life. That said, the issue of how reckless/stupid this was depends on how his spells work.

As for hid encounter with urek, i would give him more lenience. He didn't know who urek was after all and he retreated as soon as his defeat was obvious.

I guess he likes to size up his opponents by taking them head on, whereas someone like Koon would size up their opponent as much as possible before a fight. Considering his infinite past lives technique he can take more risk than most people. We don't know the cost of that technique of course, could be recharge time, his own real lifespan, or souls or something else. Also if he is aggressive out of the gate it might give him some advantage against an opponent.

 

[syx]

Gotta bump this up, especially after White's encounter with Gustang.

What do you guys really think about FUG? Before I move on with my opinion, I want to clarify that I'm well aware that we barely have any in-depth knowledge about them and that we miss the introduction of other key members (e.g. Lusclec, the Elders, Yama, Imort). But after +300 chapters, I think we can sum up our thoughts.

So far, FUG doesn't work for me. I don't like them and I'm disappointed by them. To be frank, I think SIU didn't handle them well (yet).

First of all, this group was introduced as the most dangerous and criminal organization within the Tower. FUG is not just one of many organizations, it's THE organization which opposes the Zahard Empire. For such an organization, I expected them to display a far better performance in terms of combat. And I expected them to leave a threatening impression on me, which they failed miserably. Yes, there is this whole invincibility thing in regards to Zahard and the 10 Great Warriors, but let's face it, SIU didn't create FUG just for the lolz. I don't want to turn this into a powerlevel discussion - though we can't avoid it to some degree - I just want to know what's your impression about them and if it's only me who thinks that way.

If an author creates such an organization in a battle orientated series, I personally expect them to impress the reader. Do I expect them to kill their opponents left and right? No. Do I expect them to stomp or defeat their opponents without even trying? No. What I want to see is that such an organization shows the potential that they are capable of doing the things they are said to aim for. We had no full-fledged fight of FUG, but considering what they showed so far, they are underwhelming in my opinion. Karaka may have some nasty abilities, but what good are those abilities if you don't have the firepower to harm your opponent (e.g. Yuri). What's the point of being immortal, if you turn out to be the punching bag of your enemy? Look at how easy it was for Gustang to take back the souls from White. It makes stealing the lolipop from a baby look more difficult.

Now, please don't start typing the things we all already know. Yes, Karaka still has a lot of potential and SIU hyped him a lot. White was nowhere close to his perfect form, as SIU stated. And Gustang is literally a god among gods. Again, the point of my post is not to ignite a powerlevel debate. It's more about the question: is this the right way how you treat an organization described as such? Even if I were to multiply the powerlevel of Karaka and White by any number, I fail to see how they could pose the slightest threat to the 10 Great Warriors. It feels like there is a gap of millions of years. And millions of years is a lot, even by TOG standards, literally unreachable.

As for why I don't like them. Well, SIU gave White and Karaka the most screentime, yet they seem to be just powerhungry, butthurt kids. It's hard to look forward to such characters, especially if they don't have any charisma. Jinsung for example has at least some kind of background which makes you relate to him to some degree. And Yu Hansung has charisma. These characters feel more mature and level-headed, as if they are aiming for the bigger picture. Unfortunately, Yu Hansung is left dead on the second floor and Jinsung hardly interferes in the plot and only makes cameo appearances.

All things considered, I think SIU has failed to provide an organization which is described such as the FUG and I hope this will change in the future with either some in-depth information regarding FUG or the appearance of other Slayers or Elders.

 

[Ripcord]

Gotta bump this up, especially after White's encounter with Gustang.

What do you guys really think about FUG? Before I move on with my opinion, I want to clarify that I'm well aware that we barely have any in-depth knowledge about them and that we miss the introduction of other key members (e.g. Lusclec, the Elders, Yama, Imort). But after +300 chapters, I think we can sum up our thoughts.

So far, FUG doesn't work for me. I don't like them and I'm disappointed by them. To be frank, I think SIU didn't handle them well (yet).

First of all, this group was introduced as the most dangerous and criminal organization within the Tower. FUG is not just one of many organizations, it's THE organization which opposes the Zahard Empire. For such an organization, I expected them to display a far better performance in terms of combat. And I expected them to leave a threatening impression on me, which they failed miserably. Yes, there is this whole invincibility thing in regards to Zahard and the 10 Great Warriors, but let's face it, SIU didn't create FUG just for the lolz. I don't want to turn this into a powerlevel discussion - though we can't avoid it to some degree - I just want to know what's your impression about them and if it's only me who thinks that way.

If an author creates such an organization in a battle orientated series, I personally expect them to impress the reader. Do I expect them to kill their opponents left and right? No. Do I expect them to stomp or defeat their opponents without even trying? No. What I want to see is that such an organization shows the potential that they are capable of doing the things they are said to aim for. We had no full-fledged fight of FUG, but considering what they showed so far, they are underwhelming in my opinion. Karaka may have some nasty abilities, but what good are those abilities if you don't have the firepower to harm your opponent (e.g. Yuri). What's the point of being immortal, if you turn out to be the punching bag of your enemy? Look at how easy it was for Gustang to take back the souls from White. It makes stealing the lolipop from a baby look more difficult.

Now, please don't start typing the things we all already know. Yes, Karaka still has a lot of potential and SIU hyped him a lot. White was nowhere close to his perfect form, as SIU stated. And Gustang is literally a god among gods. Again, the point of my post is not to ignite a powerlevel debate. It's more about the question: is this the right way how you treat an organization described as such? Even if I were to multiply the powerlevel of Karaka and White by any number, I fail to see how they could pose the slightest threat to the 10 Great Warriors. It feels like there is a gap of millions of years. And millions of years is a lot, even by TOG standards, literally unreachable.

As for why I don't like them. Well, SIU gave White and Karaka the most screentime, yet they seem to be just powerhungry, butthurt kids. It's hard to look forward to such characters, especially if they don't have any charisma. Jinsung for example has at least some kind of background which makes you relate to him to some degree. And Yu Hansung has charisma. These characters feel more mature and level-headed, as if they are aiming for the bigger picture. Unfortunately, Yu Hansung is left dead on the second floor and Jinsung hardly interferes in the plot and only makes cameo appearances.

All things considered, I think SIU has failed to provide an organization which is described such as the FUG and I hope this will change in the future with either some in-depth information regarding FUG or the appearance of other Slayers or Elders.

Well I think because FUG has to fight against the much stronger families they try to keep a low profile except for some key moments when they strike out. I'm was actually annoyed at them more than anything else up until the FOD arc. They just kept messing with people behind the scenes, lining up their dominoes so they can knock them all down when no one suspects it.

Then the FOD arc comes, and we realize that they are the opposition to the status quo in the tower. Of course from Jahad's perspective they are evil, and maybe they really are. But considering the complexity of Baam's origins, and that we don't know all the details, FUG could be the good guys, at least in terms of their ends.

I don't expect FUG to make all out war, rather they will act like a virus, infecting through the tower silently, only to produce an illness later on.

 

[kkck]

Gotta bump this up, especially after White's encounter with Gustang.

What do you guys really think about FUG? Before I move on with my opinion, I want to clarify that I'm well aware that we barely have any in-depth knowledge about them and that we miss the introduction of other key members (e.g. Lusclec, the Elders, Yama, Imort). But after +300 chapters, I think we can sum up our thoughts.

So far, FUG doesn't work for me. I don't like them and I'm disappointed by them. To be frank, I think SIU didn't handle them well (yet).

First of all, this group was introduced as the most dangerous and criminal organization within the Tower. FUG is not just one of many organizations, it's THE organization which opposes the Zahard Empire. For such an organization, I expected them to display a far better performance in terms of combat. And I expected them to leave a threatening impression on me, which they failed miserably. Yes, there is this whole invincibility thing in regards to Zahard and the 10 Great Warriors, but let's face it, SIU didn't create FUG just for the lolz. I don't want to turn this into a powerlevel discussion - though we can't avoid it to some degree - I just want to know what's your impression about them and if it's only me who thinks that way.

If an author creates such an organization in a battle orientated series, I personally expect them to impress the reader. Do I expect them to kill their opponents left and right? No. Do I expect them to stomp or defeat their opponents without even trying? No. What I want to see is that such an organization shows the potential that they are capable of doing the things they are said to aim for. We had no full-fledged fight of FUG, but considering what they showed so far, they are underwhelming in my opinion. Karaka may have some nasty abilities, but what good are those abilities if you don't have the firepower to harm your opponent (e.g. Yuri). What's the point of being immortal, if you turn out to be the punching bag of your enemy? Look at how easy it was for Gustang to take back the souls from White. It makes stealing the lolipop from a baby look more difficult.

Now, please don't start typing the things we all already know. Yes, Karaka still has a lot of potential and SIU hyped him a lot. White was nowhere close to his perfect form, as SIU stated. And Gustang is literally a god among gods. Again, the point of my post is not to ignite a powerlevel debate. It's more about the question: is this the right way how you treat an organization described as such? Even if I were to multiply the powerlevel of Karaka and White by any number, I fail to see how they could pose the slightest threat to the 10 Great Warriors. It feels like there is a gap of millions of years. And millions of years is a lot, even by TOG standards, literally unreachable.

As for why I don't like them. Well, SIU gave White and Karaka the most screentime, yet they seem to be just powerhungry, butthurt kids. It's hard to look forward to such characters, especially if they don't have any charisma. Jinsung for example has at least some kind of background which makes you relate to him to some degree. And Yu Hansung has charisma. These characters feel more mature and level-headed, as if they are aiming for the bigger picture. Unfortunately, Yu Hansung is left dead on the second floor and Jinsung hardly interferes in the plot and only makes cameo appearances.

All things considered, I think SIU has failed to provide an organization which is described such as the FUG and I hope this will change in the future with either some in-depth information regarding FUG or the appearance of other Slayers or Elders.

I would argue the bigger issue here is that so far we have seen basically karaka shenanigans when it comes to FUG. The workshop events were orchestrated by him alone. The hell train fug related events were also motivated by him alone in regards to white. In essence, we have only seen one faction of fug at work rather than the whole thing. And karaka is not even a high ranker unlike other non slayers like yu han sung or jinsung. Fug has essentially had a mini civil war through bam. One that, through bam, karaka keeps loosing at that. Since his faction of fug was essentially played for a fool at the workshop and then bad luck karaka was unfortunate enough to run into freaking urek mazino. And if that wasn't enough they then ran into gustang and the souls white absorbed were cursed. Meanwhile the faction supporting bam- which presumably includes luslec, jinsung, yuhansun and so on- continues to simply look from the shadows and completely ignore karaka's shenanigans. I wouldn't be surprised if they intentionally let karaka run wild with the hope that it will strengthen bam.

That said, I probably don't have as much a poor view of karaka or even white as you do because in context what we have seen so far makes sense. He has made, IMO, a respectable villain and even if he has had terrible luck so far there are times where he has pulled through through brains and badassery alone. Sure, his strongest attacks could not so much as scratch yuri but even then he managed to basically corner her along with the kids when they were getting back on the hell train. Earlier I called him bad luck karaka but the context there is that the stuff that has gone wrong with his plans is not stuff he could have foreseen. As in, he couldn't have foreseen that the thorn was already going into bam regardless of his actions, he couldn't have foreseen urek mazino randomly appearing, he couldn't have foreseen gustang cursing the souls to not be able to leave the FOD...

In any case, to me it seems like the current context is that the bulk of things we have seen from fug is basically the shenanigans of an angsty teenager (karaka) who might lose his position to bam at some point in the future (because siu said karaka's job is to kill zahard, go figure) while the bulk of the organization remains in the shadows just watching the shenanigans ensue on a weekly basis.

 

[Ripcord]

I would argue the bigger issue here is that so far we have seen basically karaka shenanigans when it comes to FUG. The workshop events were orchestrated by him alone. The hell train fug related events were also motivated by him alone in regards to white. In essence, we have only seen one faction of fug at work rather than the whole thing. And karaka is not even a high ranker unlike other non slayers like yu han sung or jinsung. Fug has essentially had a mini civil war through bam. One that, through bam, karaka keeps loosing at that. Since his faction of fug was essentially played for a fool at the workshop and then bad luck karaka was unfortunate enough to run into freaking urek mazino. And if that wasn't enough they then ran into gustang and the souls white absorbed were cursed. Meanwhile the faction supporting bam- which presumably includes luslec, jinsung, yuhansun and so on- continues to simply look from the shadows and completely ignore karaka's shenanigans. I wouldn't be surprised if they intentionally let karaka run wild with the hope that it will strengthen bam.

That said, I probably don't have as much a poor view of karaka or even white as you do because in context what we have seen so far makes sense. He has made, IMO, a respectable villain and even if he has had terrible luck so far there are times where he has pulled through through brains and badassery alone. Sure, his strongest attacks could not so much as scratch yuri but even then he managed to basically corner her along with the kids when they were getting back on the hell train. Earlier I called him bad luck karaka but the context there is that the stuff that has gone wrong with his plans is not stuff he could have foreseen. As in, he couldn't have foreseen that the thorn was already going into bam regardless of his actions, he couldn't have foreseen urek mazino randomly appearing, he couldn't have foreseen gustang cursing the souls to not be able to leave the FOD...

In any case, to me it seems like the current context is that the bulk of things we have seen from fug is basically the shenanigans of an angsty teenager (karaka) who might lose his position to bam at some point in the future (because siu said karaka's job is to kill zahard, go figure) while the bulk of the organization remains in the shadows just watching the shenanigans ensue on a weekly basis.

I would bet that FUG wouldn't just demote Karaka, nor would Karaka accept that. Since Baam is being groomed for Karaka's position this conflict is inevitable. In fact, the main faction of FUG probably expects it and is trying to use it to their advantage as you suggest.

 

[kkck]

I would bet that FUG wouldn't just demote Karaka, nor would Karaka accept that. Since Baam is being groomed for Karaka's position this conflict is inevitable. In fact, the main faction of FUG probably expects it and is trying to use it to their advantage as you suggest.

Agreed, odds are that karaka can't just be demoted. Slayers are effectively gods and they have way too many followers. They wouldn't just accept it either. Heck, bam is merely a slayer candidate and he already has jinsung and a couple others at his feet. Slayers likely only lose their position via death.

 

[AugustineGrace]

Gotta bump this up, especially after White's encounter with Gustang.

What do you guys really think about FUG? Before I move on with my opinion, I want to clarify that I'm well aware that we barely have any in-depth knowledge about them and that we miss the introduction of other key members (e.g. Lusclec, the Elders, Yama, Imort). But after +300 chapters, I think we can sum up our thoughts.

So far, FUG doesn't work for me. I don't like them and I'm disappointed by them. To be frank, I think SIU didn't handle them well (yet).

First of all, this group was introduced as the most dangerous and criminal organization within the Tower. FUG is not just one of many organizations, it's THE organization which opposes the Zahard Empire. For such an organization, I expected them to display a far better performance in terms of combat. And I expected them to leave a threatening impression on me, which they failed miserably. Yes, there is this whole invincibility thing in regards to Zahard and the 10 Great Warriors, but let's face it, SIU didn't create FUG just for the lolz. I don't want to turn this into a powerlevel discussion - though we can't avoid it to some degree - I just want to know what's your impression about them and if it's only me who thinks that way.

If an author creates such an organization in a battle orientated series, I personally expect them to impress the reader. Do I expect them to kill their opponents left and right? No. Do I expect them to stomp or defeat their opponents without even trying? No. What I want to see is that such an organization shows the potential that they are capable of doing the things they are said to aim for. We had no full-fledged fight of FUG, but considering what they showed so far, they are underwhelming in my opinion. Karaka may have some nasty abilities, but what good are those abilities if you don't have the firepower to harm your opponent (e.g. Yuri). What's the point of being immortal, if you turn out to be the punching bag of your enemy? Look at how easy it was for Gustang to take back the souls from White. It makes stealing the lolipop from a baby look more difficult.

Now, please don't start typing the things we all already know. Yes, Karaka still has a lot of potential and SIU hyped him a lot. White was nowhere close to his perfect form, as SIU stated. And Gustang is literally a god among gods. Again, the point of my post is not to ignite a powerlevel debate. It's more about the question: is this the right way how you treat an organization described as such? Even if I were to multiply the powerlevel of Karaka and White by any number, I fail to see how they could pose the slightest threat to the 10 Great Warriors. It feels like there is a gap of millions of years. And millions of years is a lot, even by TOG standards, literally unreachable.

As for why I don't like them. Well, SIU gave White and Karaka the most screentime, yet they seem to be just powerhungry, butthurt kids. It's hard to look forward to such characters, especially if they don't have any charisma. Jinsung for example has at least some kind of background which makes you relate to him to some degree. And Yu Hansung has charisma. These characters feel more mature and level-headed, as if they are aiming for the bigger picture. Unfortunately, Yu Hansung is left dead on the second floor and Jinsung hardly interferes in the plot and only makes cameo appearances.

All things considered, I think SIU has failed to provide an organization which is described such as the FUG and I hope this will change in the future with either some in-depth information regarding FUG or the appearance of other Slayers or Elders.

I'm very disappointed with FUG so far. But in regards to that being said we haven't really seen much from them. Ha jinsung is in the top 100 and said to have killed an entire ha family branch but we haven't really seen anything near his true power. Then we have karaka if I am not mistaken who is said to be a fairly new slayer(hasn't had the title for long)and is also said to have great potential meaning he hasn't reached his peak yet if anything very far from his real potential power.(not at full potential yet and still gives a Zahard princess trouble.) then we have white who was reguarded and said to be a powerful high ranker and slayer but now no where near his prime.(outdated and overrated slayer, used as a plot device for bamm to train on and help develop bamms power and morals.) we haven't seen any other slayers or any of the elders but based on the capabilities and not raw power of jinsung ha compared to the slayers we have seen something tells me that other slayers and elders could be way stronger then what we have been presented with so far from fug. With that being said we are still early in the story and still only a 3rd of the way up the tower. I could see the slayers forming a possible team later in the story, maybe a little more than half way up the tower(floor 66-70) if Leslec steps in and directly orders(maybe even threaten) both karaka and white to join bamms team or maybe follow/assist/help/train bamms team mates. It's a bit out there but with the real introduction of the fug leader it could be possible?

--- Double Post Merged, Aug 16, 2017, Original Post Date: Aug 16, 2017 ---

I would bet that FUG wouldn't just demote Karaka, nor would Karaka accept that. Since Baam is being groomed for Karaka's position this conflict is inevitable. In fact, the main faction of FUG probably expects it and is trying to use it to their advantage as you suggest.

I'm a bit confused about this. Has it been stated that bamm is being groomed to take karakas position? Or is it just that he's being groomed to take away karakas mission/goal(then again isn't the main goal of basically all of fug, slayers included the death of Zahard.) from my point of view karaka is acting out and being childish rather then looking at bamm as a strong and potential ally that could help him/help each other take down the king and achive fugs ultimate goal?