Discussion The Goddess Clan Thread

[Son Detective Asurei]

Six Black knights. (Also Chandler and Cuasack are likely members.)

Oops, my bad. Six Black Knights. I don't think they are because otherwise Chandler, Cusack, and Gowther would've stated it.

 

[Gut's is the man]

Oops, my bad. Six Black Knights. I don't think they are because otherwise Chandler, Cusack, and Gowther would've stated it.

fair point. But Nakaba hinted that Baruja was a knight.

 

[kkck]

fair point. But Nakaba hinted that Baruja was a knight.

Isn't that galan's friend that turned into an indura? when was he hinted to have been a black knight?

 

[Gut's is the man]

Isn't that galan's friend that turned into an indura? when was he hinted to have been a black knight?

yep and more just a feeling considering that he was one of three other revealed indura and during Meliodas defection the Demon realm was torn asunder,

 

[Arjuna]

yep and more just a feeling considering that he was one of three other revealed indura and during Meliodas defection the Demon realm was torn asunder,

How can he be a Black knight when his power level was 50k + which even Galan doesn't have?He should have been a Commandment if he was at all a part of any group.

 

[Gut's is the man]

How can he be a Black knight when his power level was 50k + which even Galan doesn't have?He should have been a Commandment if he was at all a part of any group.

Why aren't Cusack and Chandler commandments then under the logic that the Knights are weaker.

 

[Arjuna]

Why aren't Cusack and Chandler commandments then under the logic that the Knights are weaker.

Cusack and Chandlers are masters.From the start it was stated Commandments are stronger than Black Knights.

 

[Gut's is the man]

Cusack and Chandlers are masters.From the start it was stated Commandments are stronger than Black Knights.

It was never stated that the Commandment are explicitly stronger then the Six Knights of Black. (infact their first mention actually has the Knights being used as a benchmark for the commandments power implying the knights are viewed as superior.)

 

[Arjuna]

It was never stated that the Commandment are explicitly stronger then the Six Knights of Black. (infact their first mention actually has the Knights being used as a benchmark for the commandments power implying the knights are viewed as superior.)

@FKS what was the correct translation about Fairy Clan members saying about who being superior, Commandments or Black knights

It is slightly connected with our current discussion about Goddess Clan having similar members.

 

[FKS]

@FKS what was the correct translation about Fairy Clan members saying about who being superior, Commandments or Black knights

The Stigma allied forces could put up a fight against the Six Black Knights but got wiped out by the Ten Commandments. Thats basically what the Giant and the Fairy said.

 

[Arjuna]

It was never stated that the Commandment are explicitly stronger then the Six Knights of Black. (infact their first mention actually has the Knights being used as a benchmark for the commandments power implying the knights are viewed as superior.)

So you see Commandments are superior to Black Knights.

Ultimately if the Goddesses have something in similar it will be the masters.

And Baruja should be from some unit or a lone wolf.

 

[Aldan]

In regards to the ongoing Elizabeth power debate, Ive had a few thoughts. Although I don't think the matter of power is as straightforward as Elizabeth > 4AA, she definitely possesses power beyond Sariel and tarmiel, given they weren't surprised she could hold off enemies they admitted to being "completely overwhelmed by" while Ludoshel himself respected her power by asking her to help him in the fight above the other two AA. What's also interesting to note is that when Elizabeth initially releases her magic power, despite many people's claims that it was simply "purification magic" Ludoshel flies off to avoid being hit by it, while the force of her magic caused both Indura, Glox and Dolor to struggle in not being pushed back at a considerable distance. That in itself is a VERY clear indicator of the sheer amount of magic she possesses, blowing back kings of two clans and the elite goddesses without even utilising an attack.

Furthermore, while many are disparaging her physical abilities since she was knocked out by Derrière, it's important to consider she was caught off guard after Ludoshel murdered the demon civilians. She was distraught by the bloodshed, evidenced by her immediate tears when awakening, and when Derrierie attacked, she was in mid explanation so it's illogical to conclude that she couldn't be engaged in battle because one surprise blow got through. Another case has been made against Elizabeth's lack of involvement in the Chandler fight, with little consideration to the fact that she was actively focussed on preventing Meliodas from regressing any further into darkness. She assisted only when it was absolutely necessary and was quite obviously preoccupies with protecting Mel's body from harm. In addition, it's clear from her own statements that her power "as it is now" is limited by her human form as she noted she could no longer save Meliodas from his power, but merely halt his regression. Her not fighting against Chandler is therefore a combination of multiple factors and should not be taken at face value as a sign of her weakness, especially when she inevitably receives her full powers in future.

The fact that even in this weakened state, she possesses enough power to visibly stun AM Meliodas, is again a significant feat as although she certainly did not injure him, she did cause him to reel back which was beyond many of Escanor's day forms. Discounting this move on grounds of Meliodas "not wanting to hurt her" or comic relief would ignore every fact of the plot as we've seen so far. Elizabeth's Ark was ENORMOUS, and although not an omega ark, was enough to shock Meliodas with its force long enough for Elizabeth to escape him. Of course she wouldn't have been able to accomplish this without him holding back, but working solely from a power viewpoint, a human Elizabeth was capable of knocking down an AM Meliodas, rendering him incapable of following her for however long it took her to run out of the tower. She is certainly not weak, and claiming that she is or that she doesn't possess the capability to fight merely because of her disposition or status is basically ignoring what Nakaba has put on the page. She is a fighter, if not a killer, and certainly has the capability to hold her own against the high tier Archangels and commandments.

 

[OtakuFreak]

Then, could you, please, point out which meaning of the term "balance" makes sense within the context of open violent conflict? If it doesn't imply by itself it's about power, in general, whatever the make up for it? As well within the context of a tirade about Meliodas's immense power keeping the the balance? Maybe I am indeed imagining metaphorical constructions where there aren't, as well as with the part of the same tirade about Meliodas physically wrecking the Demon World, or is it indeed as @sobreno keeps saying, about Meliodas's "hometown"?

It still doesn't matter what sort of ability/skill she used, at the end of the day it neutralised the fighting opponents(or at least did the most part, where actual fighting soldiers, nay, generals, didn't) , just like a poison gas that puts people to sleep a ninja can use,or whatever other subtle method you can think of. It still counts as conflict and the result is still a defeat. And the title of the chapter says it clearly: "Elizabeth VS Indura"(so, as far as the author's take goes, it's a fight).
I once made a scalpel's use analogy, some people still don't get it that regardless of its chosen main use for medicine, it's still a sharp item that can kill, thus, essentially, a weapon. Every blade is essentially a weapon and every type of Light essentially fights off Darkness(when employed), the PoD they were using was their weapon, she took it away, granted, she needed a bit of help since they were still powering up and it was at the beginning a 1(her) vs 2(Indura), and earlier attempts from the AAs to 1vs 1 them failed, in fact, Monspeet caught Sariel and Tarmiel by surprise and burned them, Derrieri was 1 vs 1 Ludoshel in that state.
The main point of the whole Indura debacle is that above everything, the author handed that conflict to her, he used it to highlight goddess Elizabeth and hype her, not the AAs, they had their hype during the regular fights with the TC, but the Indura situation was centered on Elizabeth VS them, we don't know how much the 2 AAs did help in the end, though we know that when we're talking by a lot of power manifested, even by the goddesses, it would be visually represented to match the effects. Which implies the AAs didn't have to compensate with much to the power she was manifesting through Hikari Are.
The Indura were barely starting to budge her(in a joined effort and during upgrade), while individually they were smacking the AAs around before upgrade. Having a superior ability is also a part of someone's power, so no, nay-sayers don't get the excuse of "hax", that's heredity for her and she's not any weaker for having inherited power, nor lamer, especially when trying to downplay her in comparison to her counterparts in the Demon Clan. One doesn't need to be a career fighter to be able to fight or use whatever skills and power they have to combat someone, but the fact remains that beyond her ability being OP, she also must've had enough MP to input into it to even threaten the enemies into over-exerting themselves, and that throughout their forbidden move.


See my explanation above, it remains a fight, however unconventional that is. It is a battle skill if the user intends to kill, the ability itself debuffs/disarms demons(TCs using even a forbidden move), then a simple ark can be used on the torsos hiding the remaining hearts. Sure, Elizabeth couldn't handle the self-upgrading 2, I repeat, 2, TCs pulling that forbidden move, by herself to the end, nor did she intend to kill them, but if it was 1 on 1, the probability of individual defeat over and unconsciousness on the part of the enemy increases(may not be guaranteed, but it definitely increases, just as people are claiming about the AAs "getting serious"), before the Indura gets to upgrade. And leaving the enemy on the floor unable to fight back and without killing them is still a defeat. Please, don't twist terminology around, it's as much of a fight as any others..

EDIT: I forgot to mention, why do some people still rely that much on what Estarossa said, considering that the latest chapters imply his memory has been messed with?! Why do they ignore so strongly other characters' words or other telling events in comparison to what he says?! Is he by any chance Nakaba's confirmed self-insert?

Completely agree.

I just said that she is no fighter. There are many strong caracters who aren't fighters. Gowther is not a real fighter, neither Merlin. Same for Graylord and Melascula.

Sure; after all she is a pacifist type of character who prefers peace over confrontation. Other characters have personalities more suited for battle but all those characters in your answer + Elizabeth still have the ability to fight; that's all I'm saying.

Huh, no? Elizabeth's feats don't put her at a level comparable or above to the Archangels at all. No one is treating her as a dangerous fighter, she is considered more of a threat for her influence on Meliodas rather than her power. A spell used for purification can't be compared to one used for attack. And in the end she succeeded because the others helped her. The two Demons used Indura because of Ludociel, I don't think it would have been necessary for them to go to such lengths if they had Elizabeth as opponent.Even in this chapter, Ludociel's Ark on the last page looks much bigger. The only thing she has going for her is that she is the daughter of the SG, but it's meaningless without feats. In terms of power I think she is comparable to the current Elaine and excels at healing/purification, we still don't know her Magic. But so far, I don't see how she can be considered comparable to the AAs.

--- Double Post Merged, Jan 21, 2018, Original Post Date: Jan 21, 2018 ---

All the Sins are fighters, it's the same for the TCs. One of the reasons they have been chosen is because of their strength. They are simply not the physical type.

You're argument is taking a narrative that ignores manga events. Goddess Elizabeth's feats surpass anything that the archangels possess; and that is the Indura fight. You're ignoring the fact that the archangels couldn't do anything against the Indura; yet Goddess Elizabeth individually was able to stand her ground and push them to a state of desperation before she started to struggle. Yes; she needed help towards the end of the fight to fully purify them as they powered up against her attack; but from an individual stand point her magic had considerably higher levels of effectiveness in comparison to Ludoshel; the strongest archangel.

She outperformed the archangels; Nakaba clearly gave her the spotlight and demonstrated the difference of power between the archangels and Goddess Elizabeth.

Elizabeth isn't a dangerous fighter because her personality doesn't meet the criteria. She has a huge preference for peace rather than confrontation and is more likely to take a defensive stance rather than a offensive one; but regardless there are instances which have shown that she is not a push-over and will fight if necessary as a last resort.

You're also forgetting that context that current Elizabeth finds herself in; the ''perpetual reincarnation'' curse conditions her to be reborn as a human; not a Goddess. That's the difference; she is quite limited in the power she has a human in comparison to that of her Goddess form. To illustrate this difference of power between both forms; the ''Let There Be Light'' form illuminated the battlefield around her; magically depicted the triskele and a total of 8 magical wings whilst the beams of light were much larger and powerful; in comparison to Human Elizabeth's who didn't have ant of these properties besides the beam of light which was significantly weaker.

If Ludoshel was able to easily make Derriere & Monspiet resort to the Indura power; then why couldn't Goddess Elizabeth do that? She clearly depicted that her magical ability is much stronger than Ludoshel's; in fact she even threatened Derriere; saying that she would take her on if she wanted to harm Meliodas - this confidence in her power is proven when she fights Indura.

Her being able to perform much better against the Indura's is the only feat I require to easily establish that Goddess Elizabeth is above the archangels. And that's not addressing other areas of her character that clearly establish her as being powerful.

--- Double Post Merged, Jan 21, 2018 ---

[Mod=Gallon]I know the topic's quite tempting, but the same arguments keep being reiterated over and over again. Regarding more generalized topics:

• If you want to discuss about the goddesses' rankings and where Ellie stands with respect to the Archangels, please do so in the Goddess Clan thread.
• If you wish to continue the infamous "balance" argument, then please refer to the Holy War thread.

Of course, in both cases, please mark spoiler content with a spoiler tag if the chapter has yet to be released so other members do not get accidentally spoiled.

I apologize for not being around much recently, but I can't help it. It would be much appreciated if you guys would refrain from further discussions and take them to their relevant threads once they assume a relatively big off-topic course, though!
[/MOD]

With this; I'm tempted to make a threat dedicated just to Goddess Elizabeth as there has been lots of arguments depicted around her.

Here's a thread about Elizabeth.
- Gallon

 

[sobreno]

As far as I know; possessing a commandment doesn't increase your PL. It just gives you another powerful ability to use (well it's always active)

Then again if all 10 will give Meliodas the power of the Demon King; then it must right?



Except Sariel & Tarmiel were able to hold themselves against Derriere/Monspiet and another low-tier commandment behind them. If they're equal to D/M then how would they be able to do that? They have to be stronger than them; albeit not much.

It doesn't matter if it's purification or offensive ability; if the magic doesn't have the fundamental raw power behind it then it will fail. Why do you think Hendrickson with his ''purge'' is unable to affect any demon beyond fodder-level? Because his power is around fodder-level demons; it's really that simple. Elizabeth had that raw power; Ludoshel didn't - shows she has superior magical power.

I don't deny Ludoshel probably has superior physical ability; he is after all a soldier of his clan and apart of the strongest military force of the Goddess Clan. Then again; Elizabeth doesn't lack physical ability - she just has less of it. She's demonstrated durability several times in the manga; but less of speed.
Goddess Elizabeth's wings are larger/longer than Ludoshel's. Take a look:

http://ww1.read7deadlysins.com/chapter/nanatsu-no-taizai-chapter-207/ Both sets of wings are the same size of Ludoshel's but much longer. (Bottom two panels are easiest to see)

We don't need a statement to understand that she is above the Archangels; she outperformed them against the Indura. With that logic; I need a statement to truly know that ''the one'' is stronger than Assault Meliodas - I mean; it goes both ways right? But wait it doesn't for you; because you don't like the idea of Elizabeth being powerful and will throw any excuse to deny her strength.

Let's compare Ludoshel to Goddess Elizabeth:

He's the strongest Archangel vs She's the daughter of a God (which would you rather be?)
He was helpless against a single Indura vs She held her own against 2 and enabled the Archangels to defeat them. Without her; they would've lost.
Her wings are longer than his.
Ludoshel has superior physical ability but that doesn't make up for Elizabeth for having considerably higher magical power.

Goddess Elizabeth has better feats than Ludoshel and is only weaker to him in physical ability; which isn't significant enough since she has shown strong levels of durability (not sure about speed etc yet).

The Demons gained strength (E.g Gloxinia + Dolor joining them) while the Goddesses/Stigma lost strength (e.g gloxinia + Dolor leaving; betrayal of the humans; celestial realm gone which cuts their reinfrocements from the heavens; Goddess Elizabeth and Meliodas being cursed and killed). There is no denying that the Demons regained strength while the Goddesses lost strength. The whole idea of the demons just being op is what made them stalemate the war is ridiculous. Actually look at the events.

I'm not even addressing that Chandler scenario since it reeks of bias. Half of it has no relevance anyway.

Nope, they are eventually in the same league of power, they didn't hold back, what are talking about? This is a war.

Yes, it matter since purification is a hax that is perfect for that exact scenario, Elizabeth also failed to purify them alone, she needed help, the thing that you always forget. he didn't show that she has a superior magic, on the contrary.

I took a look, their wings are the same, it is you who are fanboying over Elizabeth yet again, her durability suck, she passes out from a single punch whereas Ludo remains concious even when he was blitzed by a Indura ( which was a surprise attack too ).

Yeah, let's compare them.
He is a solder, she is a princess, being her doing means shit if she didn't know how to fight.
She was helpless too, and Ludoshel wasn't serious as he was going to show something before getting interrupted by her.
Both of their wings are in the same length and same numbers
Ludoshel has both superior physical strength and magic as he know versatile techniques others than purification techniques which are useless in a battle scenario against himself.

It is still no relevant gain compared to the lost of Meliodas. The Chandler part reek of Bias? More like it is a fact that you can't counter with that uselesss princess that lack feat against him and his versatility lol.

--- Double Post Merged, Jan 21, 2018, Original Post Date: Jan 21, 2018 ---

[Mod=Gallon]I know the topic's quite tempting, but the same arguments keep being reiterated over and over again. Regarding more generalized topics:

• If you want to discuss about the goddesses' rankings and where Ellie stands with respect to the Archangels, please do so in the Goddess Clan thread.
• If you wish to continue the infamous "balance" argument, then please refer to the Holy War thread.

Of course, in both cases, please mark spoiler content with a spoiler tag if the chapter has yet to be released so other members do not get accidentally spoiled.

I apologize for not being around much recently, but I can't help it. It would be much appreciated if you guys would refrain from further discussions and take them to their relevant threads once they assume a relatively big off-topic course, though!
[/MOD]

Oops, Okay.

 

[Demonspeed]

Nope, they are eventually in the same league of power, they didn't hold back, what are talking about? This is a war.

Yes, it matter since purification is a hax that is perfect for that exact scenario, Elizabeth also failed to purify them alone, she needed help, the thing that you always forget. he didn't show that she has a superior magic, on the contrary.

I took a look, their wings are the same, it is you who are fanboying over Elizabeth yet again, her durability suck, she passes out from a single punch whereas Ludo remains concious even when he was blitzed by a Indura ( which was a surprise attack too ).

Yeah, let's compare them.
He is a solder, she is a princess, being her doing means shit if she didn't know how to fight.
She was helpless too, and Ludoshel wasn't serious as he was going to show something before getting interrupted by her.
Both of their wings are in the same length and same numbers
Ludoshel has both superior physical strength and magic as he know versatile techniques others than purification techniques which are useless in a battle scenario against himself.

It is still no relevant gain compared to the lost of Meliodas. The Chandler part reek of Bias? More like it is a fact that you can't counter with that uselesss princess that lack feat against him and his versatility lol.

--- Double Post Merged, Jan 21, 2018, Original Post Date: Jan 21, 2018 ---

Oops, Okay.

She outperformed them? Yes. At what? Purification. Something the Archangels never tried to do.Purge is a spell which worked on Fraudrin but does is mean that Hendrickson and Zarataras have more Magic power than him? No. Her technique was just the same, it had no offensive property. Right now Elizabeth isn't a Human, she is a Goddess.Nowhere has it been said that she got her strength sealed or anything. She is awakened. Tarmiel even pointed out that Elizabeth failing was natural since they were being pressured by them.

Spoiler

Let There Be Light is a spell which works under specific conditions. Until she shows something of note in a fight I won't consider her as someone at their level because she doesn't have the feats nor the reputation. In no way has she been portrayed as superior to Ludociel. She threatened Derrierie? But in the end she did nothing. Threats are not feats. In the previous chapter Zeldris tanked an Ark from Ludociel and retaliated, Ludociel stopped it and managed to protect the others, those are clear feats demonstrating their strengths. Elizabeth hasn't shown anything putting her at that level of power.

 

[sobreno]

She outperformed them? Yes. At what? Purification. Something the Archangels never tried to do.Purge is a spell which worked on Fraudrin but does is mean that Hendrickson and Zarataras have more Magic power than him? No. Her technique was just the same, it had no offensive property. Right now Elizabeth isn't a Human, she is a Goddess.Nowhere has it been said that she got her strength sealed or anything. She is awakened. Tarmiel even pointed out that Elizabeth failing was natural since they were being pressured by them.

Spoiler

Let There Be Light is a spell which works under specific conditions. Until she shows something of note in a fight I won't consider her as someone at their level because she doesn't have the feats nor the reputation. In no way has she been portrayed as superior to Ludociel. She threatened Derrierie? But in the end she did nothing. Threats are not feats. In the previous chapter Zeldris tanked an Ark from Ludociel and retaliated, Ludociel stopped it and managed to protect the others, those are clear feats demonstrating their strengths. Elizabeth hasn't shown anything putting her at that level of power.

Because purification is her strong point, literally, it is her specialty, Elizabeth is oriented to " purification " and " healing " spell or magic techniques.
That is due to her personality, which is what orient your magic power in the first place.

She isn't a fighter and doesn't wish to learn how to fight herself, therefore comparing her inexistent battle prowess to the Archangels is useless and foolish in the first place.

 

[Demonspeed]

Because purification is her strong point, literally, it is her specialty, Elizabeth is oriented to " purification " and " healing " spell or magic techniques.
That is due to her personality, which is what orient your magic power in the first place.

She isn't a fighter and doesn't wish to learn how to fight herself, therefore comparing her inexistent battle prowess to the Archangels is useless and foolish in the first place.

I am giving her the benefit of the doubt because of her lineage. I am willing to believe that she is very powerful but as I said, she doesn't have the feats nor the reputation. I can't imagine Chandler sending a Familiar to kill Ludociel, Sariel or Tarmiel. Theoretically, if her Magic Power is very high, she should be able to use it offensively too since Ark can be used like that. When she will get a real fight we'll see the extent of her power. I don't think personality is an issue at all, she lived during the Holy War. Either she is strong like the AAs or she is not.

 

[sobreno]

I am giving her the benefit of the doubt because of her lineage. I am willing to believe that she is very powerful but as I said, she doesn't have the feats nor the reputation. I can't imagine Chandler sending a Familiar to kill Ludociel, Sariel or Tarmiel. Theoretically, if her Magic Power is very high, she should be able to use it offensively too since Ark can be used like that. When she will get a real fight we'll see the extent of her power. I don't think personality is an issue at all, she lived during the Holy War. Either she is strong like the AAs or she is not.

Which will never happen and you know it. Always someone to protect her in the end. Like a " true " princess which she is.
Don't get your hope up, it is already 250 + chapters and there is no sign of her trying some kind of battle prowess, speed, and offensive magic.

 

[PeanutButterJelly]

Elizabeth is a strong individual (where she stands compared to AA is debetable). Let's honest her personality is pacifisting,but thinking she won't fight if needed is inaccurate.

She was highly efficient against Melascula,as she countered her poisonous mist, neutralized the miasma on Ban (who's regenerational properties couldn't keep up) and even made her the size of a little rat.
She's isn't likely to be a full-blown out fighters like most of the characters,but thinking she can't use offensive spells is just dumb.While she is support oriented,depending how the author decides,she could very well have a few offensive spells that are efficient against demons. She already broke Derieri's hand and even managed send Mel flying,tho with nearly no harm.
Before you go on me,for even comparing those two.I'm not stating that she anywhere nearly powerful to high tier characters,but she could be for all know.
Overall,she is a highly viable asset to the Sins,just like the rest of them.Who wouldn't want to have a Goddess as friend/ally?

 

[OtakuFreak]

She outperformed them? Yes. At what? Purification. Something the Archangels never tried to do.Purge is a spell which worked on Fraudrin but does is mean that Hendrickson and Zarataras have more Magic power than him? No. Her technique was just the same, it had no offensive property. Right now Elizabeth isn't a Human, she is a Goddess.Nowhere has it been said that she got her strength sealed or anything. She is awakened. Tarmiel even pointed out that Elizabeth failing was natural since they were being pressured by them.

Spoiler

Let There Be Light is a spell which works under specific conditions. Until she shows something of note in a fight I won't consider her as someone at their level because she doesn't have the feats nor the reputation. In no way has she been portrayed as superior to Ludociel. She threatened Derrierie? But in the end she did nothing. Threats are not feats. In the previous chapter Zeldris tanked an Ark from Ludociel and retaliated, Ludociel stopped it and managed to protect the others, those are clear feats demonstrating their strengths. Elizabeth hasn't shown anything putting her at that level of power.

She outperformed the archangels because her magical power affected the Indura's whilst Ludoshel's power didn't; it's not because it's merely purification. If you don't have the fundamental power behind an ability against an opponnent than it will surely fail. Actually no; Elizabeth is not a Goddess at the current moment in the manga; chapter 224 clearly depicts that while she is cursed by her mother; the Supreme Deity; she will be reincarnated in a constant cycle over time as a human. Sure; she has her memories but that doesn't mean she's retrieved all of her power. The ''Let There Be Light'' example I used in her Goddess vs Human form illustrates this idea. It's natural that a human will not have the same equivalent power as a Goddess; even if she's fundamentally a Goddess in her original incarnation.

That statement by Tarmiel only defines that Elizabeth is struggling because Indura effortlessly took out the archangels; a powerful fighting force. In no way it is saying she's weaker than the archangels.

Also; Ludoshel clearly respects her power and position in the clan. When he was individually fighting against Indura; he was freaking out and screaming for assistance by the other archangels but the moment Elizabeth appears he's suddenly calm and wants her assistance instead. If she didn't have any notable power then he would've told her to get out of the way.

I am giving her the benefit of the doubt because of her lineage. I am willing to believe that she is very powerful but as I said, she doesn't have the feats nor the reputation. I can't imagine Chandler sending a Familiar to kill Ludociel, Sariel or Tarmiel. Theoretically, if her Magic Power is very high, she should be able to use it offensively too since Ark can be used like that. When she will get a real fight we'll see the extent of her power. I don't think personality is an issue at all, she lived during the Holy War. Either she is strong like the AAs or she is not.

Problem with Goddess Elizabeth's character is due to how Nakaba has revealed barely any information regarding her title; power; or reputation. During the flashback arc; any information given about Elizabeth was extremely vague. For example; Ludoshel commented on her ''status'' but never directly mentioned what that specifically mean't (her being SD daughter); then you take into account Monspiet recognised her identify but didn't specifically mention who she was.

Overall; Nakaba has been very vague about any information regarding the Goddess Clan and Goddess Elizabeth is no exception. But with the reemergence of the Goddesses in the latest chapters; then we will hopefully get more information regarding Elizabeth's true position/power.

I'd put this down to agree-disagree (btw)