Character Soo-Won Discussion

[Brandish μ]

This thread is for all topics centered around Soo-Won's character.

Possible talking points:

• How should he deal with Yona and Hak - is he too passive or playing it right?
• Assessing his decisions and results as a ruler
• Will he take a queen in the manga, and should he?
• Your view on his character arc and future development

 

[Trjpyo]

There really isnt much to discuss about his character coz his development is pretty slow- understandable since hes only a minor character.

I just hope that this current arc(yona going to kuuto) will shed some light on him, his past, etc. if he’s not going to the fire tribe(highly unlikely), I hope lili sticks to him while at hiryuu castle and get him to share his thoughts. Spill those secrets you’ve been hiding already!!!

I just want new info on him to chew on. He’s been an enigma for as long as i can remember! Pls. no more of that!

 

[@Aylinn]

Su-won is an interesting character, since he doesn’t turn out to be a typical villain that many would expect. He does cold-blooded things, but behind them seems to be genuine care for the country that would have been destroyed otherwise. We know that he was not living in the castle before the coup, so there is a good chance that he knows no less about common people’s struggles than Yona and decided to study and fix problems on the administrative level, which is a logical step.

I think that the fact he makes such a good job proves enough that revenge was not the only reason why he killed Il. He could just kill Il and become the King. He didn't have to study or make a good job as the King by making the kingdom more prosperous if revenge were all there was to it.

I agree, however, that he needs more development. What I would like to see is:
- more of how his relationship with Il looked like
- his thoughts on Yu-hon and how their father-son relationship looked like
- his thoughts on the country and its state under Il
- his thoughts on Yona, Hak and their friendship

 

[Trjpyo]

I think that the fact he makes such a good job proves enough that revenge was not the only reason why he killed Il. He could just kill Il and become the King. He didn't have to study or make a good job as the King by making the kingdom more prosperous if revenge were all there was to it.

What soowon said to yona that night of the murder was interesting... “i have avenged my father, and as the one who inherited my fathers dying wish...”
And there was also that time when kija and soowon had a face off and he told kija in his face that he didnt want the throne.

I could only assume that what propelled him to kill king il and take the throne even if he didnt want it was to fulfill his fathers dying wish.

 

[@Aylinn]

What soowon said to yona that night of the murder was interesting... “i have avenged my father, and as the one who inherited my fathers dying wish...”
And there was also that time when kija and soowon had a face off and he told kija in his face that he didnt want the throne.

I could only assume that what propelled him to kill king il and take the throne even if he didnt want it was to fulfill his fathers dying wish.

Yes, his father's murder and dying wish has probably something/a lot do with it his decision as well. I have never denied it.

 

[lindananahayashida]

What soowon said to yona that night of the murder was interesting... “i have avenged my father, and as the one who inherited my fathers dying wish...”
And there was also that time when kija and soowon had a face off and he told kija in his face that he didnt want the throne.

I could only assume that what propelled him to kill king il and take the throne even if he didnt want it was to fulfill his fathers dying wish.

lol the first one is true.. yet twisted..

but the second one.. you completely took part of a sentence to twist the meaning lol..

he said that.. but also said that.. the only reason he became the king is that.. its only a mean for him to save the country n bring it to its original state..

also.. the guy that supports him also said.. the only reason he choose soo won over their king is because what he promised to them.. he also said he doesnt care if soo won dies once he completed what he said he would do..

unless you are a hater.. n fail ti get his character.. ts pretty safe to say that he wasnt lying n he is indeed saving the country n is making it strong..

 

[Trjpyo]

lol the first one is true.. yet twisted..

but the second one.. you completely took part of a sentence to twist the meaning lol..

he said that.. but also said that.. the only reason he became the king is that.. its only a mean for him to save the country n bring it to its original state..

also.. the guy that supports him also said.. the only reason he choose soo won over their king is because what he promised to them.. he also said he doesnt care if soo won dies once he completed what he said he would do..

unless you are a hater.. n fail ti get his character.. ts pretty safe to say that he wasnt lying n he is indeed saving the country n is making it strong..

Dont get me wrong, i have nothing against his chara. All stories need their antagonist, hes a pretty interesting one. Altho im kinda disappointed how hes portrayed in the recent chap, but we'll see how it plays out.
... Its just a difference in perspective, its not hate.

Its as you said, soowon said various things to different people. And im inclined to believe the speech he said to yona on the night he killed king il bec it felt the most raw and true.

We are made to believe that he did it for the country per yonas rationalization, per what he said to judoh, his coronation speech but then i was stopped by his declaration to kija that he didnt want the throne. I was like??? Then what the hell was it all for? The throne is a symbol of power. If u want to change something, in this case koukas present state, u must want the throne because it offers the means to achieve it. So if he didnt want to be king then why go all through this trouble? If it wasnt his desire then whos was it? Most likely his father... his last wish.
Then it occured to me that he prolly said it to.judo to bait him and join his coup. I dont think judo wouldve joined his cause if otherwise. The coronation speech is akin to pep rally, of course hes not gonna declare the revenge part bec that will incriminate him.
The other thing that didnt convince me about soowons 'for the country' motive was his lack of involvement in koukas politics or military prior to the coup. How am i to side with someone who spent 10 yrs nursing his anger and didnt even do anything constructive up until the coup?

 

[@Aylinn]

We are made to believe that he did it for the country per yonas rationalization, per what he said to judoh, his coronation speech but then i was stopped by his declaration to kija that he didnt want the throne. I was like??? Then what the hell was it all for? The throne is a symbol of power.

I think what Su-won said back then was pretty clear. He is not interested in the glamour of power that the throne gives. He needed the throne to make Kouka stronger. The throne was just a mean to this end. Nothing more. In other words, the throne was just a tool to achieve his goal.

The other thing that didnt convince me about soowons 'for the country' motive was his lack of involvement in koukas politics or military prior to the coup. How am i to side with someone who spent 10 yrs nursing his anger and didnt even do anything constructive up until the coup?

Well, about this. First of all, we don’t know if his lack of involvement was a voluntary decision.
Secondly, Su-won didn’t live in the castle, so he could not be an important political figure and we don’t know why he didn’t live in the castle.
Thirdly, there is no telling if Il would let him be politically involved and the question is if Il would let Su-won be involved in military matters?

Besides, even if it turned out that Su-won didn’t help his uncle, because he hated him so much that the whole idea just seemed disgusting to him, then so what? However, if you like characters only when they are likeable and always do the right and the most noble thing, then ok. Your right.

 

[Trjpyo]

Well, about this. First of all, we don’t know if his lack of involvement was a voluntary decision.
Secondly, Su-won didn’t live in the castle, so he could not be an important political figure and we don’t know why he didn’t live in the castle.
Thirdly, there is no telling if Il would let him be politically involved and the question is if Il would let Su-won be involved in military matters?

Besides, even if it turned out that Su-won didn’t help his uncle, because he hated him so much that the whole idea just seemed disgusting to him, then so what? However, if you like characters only when they are likeable and always do the right and the most noble thing, then ok. Your right.

im always on the look out for when people contradict themselves bec one of the statements is bound to reveal a covert motive . I remember that chap piqued my interest and considered the possibility that the first statement was true. I personally dont think u can compqrtmentalize the glamour/power/purpose of the throne bec its a package deal.

Its not about the likeability, i just like picking at peoples motives. I pick at soowons, i also pick at yonas rationalizations.

soowons an antagonist. Im already resigned to the idea that he wouldnt do the most likeable and noble thing, thats already a given. Even as the antagonist i want him to step up his game and not be too lenient this time around bec hes starting to sound like a fool whos in denial and that is so unlike his character.

 

[lindananahayashida]

Dont get me wrong, i have nothing against his chara. All stories need their antagonist, hes a pretty interesting one. Altho im kinda disappointed how hes portrayed in the recent chap, but we'll see how it plays out.
... Its just a difference in perspective, its not hate.

Its as you said, soowon said various things to different people. And im inclined to believe the speech he said to yona on the night he killed king il bec it felt the most raw and true.

We are made to believe that he did it for the country per yonas rationalization, per what he said to judoh, his coronation speech but then i was stopped by his declaration to kija that he didnt want the throne. I was like??? Then what the hell was it all for? The throne is a symbol of power. If u want to change something, in this case koukas present state, u must want the throne because it offers the means to achieve it. So if he didnt want to be king then why go all through this trouble? If it wasnt his desire then whos was it? Most likely his father... his last wish.
Then it occured to me that he prolly said it to.judo to bait him and join his coup. I dont think judo wouldve joined his cause if otherwise. The coronation speech is akin to pep rally, of course hes not gonna declare the revenge part bec that will incriminate him.
The other thing that didnt convince me about soowons 'for the country' motive was his lack of involvement in koukas politics or military prior to the coup. How am i to side with someone who spent 10 yrs nursing his anger and didnt even do anything constructive up until the coup?

first.. i really think you dont want soo won to be a good guy.. n want him to be a typical villain who is indeed bad.. but i guess it cant be helped..

1.soo won acted like he wanted to kill yona.. but then he didn't send any soldiers to persue hak n yona.. n also saved yona once.. so its obvious that if anything.. he was lying that night.. because he was surrounded by people whom he promised to do anything needed to save the country.. remember how he didnt save yona in front of others.. but in secret? yeah.. even a king cant do whatever he wants..

2.you are completely missing the point.. lol! he wanted to protect his country.. he even said that as a kid.. he didnt want the throne.. he only saw the throne as a mean that would help him accomplish his dream.. if it was not a throne.. but a chair that wouldve helped him save his country.. he would take over the chair.. not the throne.. i say it again the THRONE is only the MEANS he needed to save his country.. as everyone else was doing their job.. its the king that wasnt.. his generals wanted to go on war to protect the country.. but he denied.. so if it was someone else.. he wouldve killed that guy too..

3.he never wanted kija or any of thw dragons.. idk wjy you have such a selective memory.. he made it clear when he met with kouren.. he even made fun od that priest.. n also.. he made himself clear in front of zeno as well when he asked soo if he wanted the dragons.. n he clearly denied.. n zeno also didnt make any expression that madeit seem like soo was lying.. in fact he smiled.. also.. i think someone who lived for so long would misjudge in such a crucial matter.. but you are free to belive otherwise.. even tho the writer made it so obvious.. thwre was also a chapter where lili said that their king was too pure.. sigh..

4.idk what you mean not like him.. when you clearly dont understand his character.. not to ofdend you.. but you dont.. sorry.. in fact the only thing as of now that seems not like him is he is keeping lili close in every mater.. but we dont k ow why he is doing it.. if it is cause of some romantic feelings.. that would be really unlike him..

4.its not that soo didnt help king II.. idk why you hace selectiveemory again.. king II never even lets yona go near soo without trying to stop her.. whay makes you think that he would let soo get any higher position in the military?! also.. its more like king II was afraid that if soo had more power.. once he finds out he killed soo's father.. soo might kill him.. he was most likely feeling guilty n didnt want soo to learn much about politics.. like seriously.. you said you like t see other aspects as well.. but all you see is what sort of bad intentions soo might have? its also clear that even hak.. who never even went outside the castle much.. had more authority than soo.. hak was one of the general.. yet he didnt even live where he was suppose to.. n king II was grooming him to be his daughters husband.. n soo won was never in the same position as hak even tho soo had way more contacts.. king II also most likely didnt want soo x yona cause.. he was probably afraid that once soo finds out about his father.. he might torture yona.. typical for someone who doesnt like violence who violently killed his own brother.. aslo.. he scolded soo as a kid to not enter the room.. even tho soo was a kid who was very rational n wouldve understood even if king II said it politely.. i mwan its obvious that king II was afraid of soo won knowing too much.. he wanted soo to just live a life like one of the minor soldiers.. n never get any high authority..

i seriously dont know why you find king II so helpless n nice.. soo was a kid.. if a king needed a kids help to save his kingdom.. hes better off dead.. even his own workers n su subjects didnt like him.. n he also killed his brother n hid the Truth.. no matter what the reason was.. he was no saint.. also.. if you think king II did the right thing by killing his brother cause he was violent.. then you should have no problems with soo won killing king II cause he was someone who was relaxing with his family in his castle.. when his subjects were dying for various reason on the borders..

also.. soo let the blondie go who helped hak n yona escape from the castle.. cauee his mother was a loyal worker.. soo was never ungreatful.. even tho he knew that blondie helped them.. he let him live.. unlike king II who killed his own brother n was very ungreatful to his father.. i doubt his father wouldve wanted to kill his own son.. n if his father with kings power could control his brother.. i see no reaso why king II couldnt just control his brother? he couldve wasily framed him with something illegal n captured him.. or couldve taken his authorities away.. it wouldve still been better than getting killed.. sigh..

oh n got get me started about yona.. her reaching on every event faster than soo.. then soo arriving is getting old and boring.. besides.. she probably has the power to take over rhan throne anytime she wants with all the dragons.. she never had to struggle like soo.. after losing his father.. besides.. he even spared yona when she disclosed the truth while trying to save kourens kingdom.. n also spared lili.. none of the dragon or even hak was there.. if he really wanted to kill her like he said at the day he killed her father.. shouldnt he have killed her thus time? since he said he was going to kill her too?

 

[Aniela]

If Su-won wanted to only kill Il out of revenge, he would've then walked away and left Yona and Hak to handle the state's affairs (not that they would manage the way they were back then). And he can have more than one reason to do things. It's quite possible that he could've taken power without killing Il (imprison him and claim he's dead, for instance, though it would be more risky), but decided for the bloody way because he wanted to revenge his father. It doesn't mean he didn't care for Kouka and its state regardless of his anger towards Il or his father's dying wish.

And with him not wanting the throne, it's just like @@Aylinn said, there's no contradiction here. He said that he doesn't want to sit on the throne, and honestly we've seen him sit on it maybe twice :P Instead he was out into the country, helping it. So yeah, to Su-won throne/power is a way to his goal, not a goal unto itself. If Kouka had a system where the king was a figurehead and instead his adviser held the power, Su-won would've become the adviser, but since in Kouka the king clearly is in charge, he became king.

 

[Trjpyo]

first.. i really think you dont want soo won to be a good guy.. n want him to be a typical villain who is indeed bad.. but i guess it cant be helped..

He’s an antagonist, somewhat grey chara. Hes never going to be ‘purely’ good or ‘purely’ bad. I KNOW THAT. Even his methods of making kouka strong as seen in the xing arc(before yona intervened) is pretty ‘wrong’ by my standards BUT when proposed to peace talks by yona he said yes. A ‘bad’ villain will not yield but goes through with the plan.

3.he never wanted kija or any of thw dragons.. idk wjy you have such a selective memory.. he made it clear when he met with kouren.. he even made fun od that priest.. n also.. he made himself clear in front of zeno as well when he asked soo if he wanted the dragons.. n he clearly denied.. n zeno also didnt make any expression that madeit seem like soo was lying.. in fact he smiled.. also.. i think someone who lived for so long would misjudge in such a crucial matter.. but you are free to belive otherwise.. even tho the writer made it so obvious.. thwre was also a chapter where lili said that their king was too pure.. sigh...

I never said anything about soowon wanting dragons. Youre putting words in my mouth. Im not arguing about him being ‘good’ or ‘evil’ but just about the part that when he contradicted himsel.

1.soo won acted like he wanted to kill yona.. but then he didn't send any soldiers to persue hak n yona.. n also saved yona once.. so its obvious that if anything.. he was lying that night.. because he was surrounded by people whom he promised to do anything needed to save the country.. remember how he didnt save yona in front of others.. but in secret? yeah.. even a king cant do whatever he wants.
4.idk what you mean not like him.. when you clearly dont understand his character.. not to ofdend you.. but you dont.. sorry.. in fact the only thing as of now that seems not like him is he is keeping lili close in every mater.. but we dont k ow why he is doing it.. if it is cause of some romantic feelings.. that would be really unlike him...

Sorry to burst your bubble but.... i already knew hes a grey character. I wrote antagonist but i also know not all antagonists are villains.
I have no complaints about soowon not killing yona/hak all those instances before the big announcement of her identity in the xing arc bec it was well within his character. But now that circumstances have changed(the big reveal that ils daughter is alive, she was actually that red haired girl who was responsible for the nadai resolution and the clear hiryuu fascination thats still rampant in kouka) and keishuk putting the big picture out there for him but still refusing to act upon it is making him stupid and a fool whos in denial. Because per what i know of his character hes not stupid and he can clearly see the big picture and he can clearly break bonds if the circumstances call him to.

4.its not that soo didnt help king II.. idk why you hace selectiveemory again.. king II never even lets yona go near soo without trying to stop her.. whay makes you think that he would let soo get any higher position in the military?! also.. its more like king II was afraid that if soo had more power.. once he finds out he killed soo's father.. soo might kill him.. he was most likely feeling guilty n didnt want soo to learn much about politics.. like seriously.. you said you like t see other aspects as well.. but all you see is what sort of bad intentions soo might have?.

That is your interpretation of why soowon didnt serve his country, its not definitive yet. Youre making it sound like soowon is stupid and he wasnt prepared to take on the role of king once he took over the throne by saying that he didnt know any politics or that king il exiled him and made him helpless and ignorant... which is not the case.

Seeing soowons means of making kouka strong is a clear example of ‘not all that glitters is gold’. Aftre the xing arc and seeing what ‘making kouka stronger’ means, i dont know if kiling one person for revenge (king il) is bad or the warmongering is worse.

oh n got get me started about yona.. her reaching on every event faster than soo.. then soo arriving is getting old and boring.. besides.. she probably has the power to take over rhan throne anytime she wants with all the dragons.. she never had to struggle like soo.. after losing his father..

Yona also lost her father to soowon too. I dont see why thats not a struggle

--- Double Post Merged, May 16, 2018, Original Post Date: May 16, 2018 ---

If Su-won wanted to only kill Il out of revenge, he would've then walked away and left Yona and Hak to handle the state's affairs (not that they would manage the way they were back then). And he can have more than one reason to do things.

If his fathers last wish wasnt about taking the throne as something that was rigtfully his, i think he wouldve done so.

And with him not wanting the throne, it's just like @@Aylinn said, there's no contradiction here. He said that he doesn't want to sit on the throne, and honestly we've seen him sit on it maybe twice :P
Instead he was out into the country, helping it. So yeah, to Su-won throne/power is a way to his goal, not a goal unto itself. If Kouka had a system where the kings was a figurehead and instead his adviser held the power, Su-won would've become the adviser, but since in Kouka the king clearly is in charge, he became king.

I dont think he was comically literal that time tho. I couldve just let it go if he said ‘i wanted the throne for the purpose of making it stronger’ but he said a contradiction. And contradictions are interesting.

 

[lindananahayashida]

lol you are hopeless.. sigh.. its not even possible to have an argument with you.. xD makes me wonder why i even bothered.. but whatever.. believe what you want lol xD

 

[Aniela]

If his fathers last wish wasnt about taking the throne as something that was rigtfully his, i think he wouldve done so.

And there's nothing to support your claim.

I dont think he was comically literal that time tho. I couldve just let it go if he said ‘i wanted the throne for the purpose of making it stronger’ but he said a contradiction. And contradictions are interesting.

Me and @@Aylinn both explained that there's no contradiction there. I honestly don't know where you see one.

 

[SamuelDean]

Considering the fact that King Il hindered Soo Won in joining such such a simple occasion as the tournament and his strong wish that Soo Won doesn t inherit the throne of Kouka could imply that King Il prevented Soo Won s influence in politics.

I don t think that it is merely a one way agression and King Il loved his nephew dearly...I think he might have not hated him, but I doubt that he loved this child. We do not know why exactly King Il denied Soo Won the possibility of the throne. Was it merely the fact that he was his father s son? Did King Il fear for his country?
Or was there a completely different reason?

 

[Mini_kinkin]

My perception of Soo-Won changed overtime.

At first his stoic and all mighty, all knowing nature SERIOUSLY irritated me a lot. Soo-Won is a "genius" who never goes wrong, had several years to prepare for taking over the country to avenge his dad and obviously knew more than Yona, who was forced out of her house because of him and had to learn how to live a new life...and they were supposed to be best friends! I used to really dislike him for all this and his betrayel.

But as the story progressed, we could see that he actually still cares for Hak and Yona, letting them go all the time, and then he even said he doesn't plan to die happily or something. I always thought he was a good king, it was his personality that irritated me before, but after we saw some panels of his human side I started understanding his character more. Although betraying your friends is something I still can't fully forget about his character, we also know there are several complex reasons behind it. I can see more development, especially during his convos with Lili where we can understand him better. Though letting Hak and Yona go continuously now might be his undoing...so we will have to see how this plays out.

Actually, it's because Lili understands him best out of all the characters, she is able to get the reader to understand Soo-Won more too. That's why Lili is so important in the series, she is drawing out parts of Soo-Won that were always a mystery (like Hiryu's mausoleum for example). So because of Lili also I started liking him more.

He still isn't one of my fave characters or anything, but I don't dislike him anymore. I want him to get a happy ending.

 

[Trjpyo]

he even said he doesn't plan to die happily or something.
I want him to get a happy ending.

Chap 138 ryt? I couldnt forget... the first time i read the english scans on that, i got a foreboding feeling. ‘Is soowon gonna take a hit for yona/hak in atonement for his sins?’ was the thought that popped in my head. Although honestly, i’ve always found it corny the possible ending wherein soowon dies protecting hak/yona and personally dont like the message it sends.
But considering that severing bonds with your closest friends in pursuit of something is a tragedy. Add to that, a mindset of ‘i dont deserve happiness’ is sad and depressing. Im expecting a tragic ending if things dont improve for him. I hope the author doesnt use his character to evoke that particular feeling of melancholia by the end of the story.

But this is a shoujo right? Are tragic endings possible in this genre?

 

[SamuelDean]

Chap 138 ryt? I couldnt forget... the first time i read the english scans on that, i got a foreboding feeling. ‘Is soowon gonna take a hit for yona/hak in atonement for his sins?’ was the thought that popped in my head. Although honestly, i’ve always found it corny the possible ending wherein soowon dies protecting hak/yona and personally dont like the message it sends.
But considering that severing bonds with your closest friends in pursuit of something is a tragedy. Add to that, a mindset of ‘i dont deserve happiness’ is sad and depressing. Im expecting a tragic ending if things dont improve for him. I hope the author doesnt use his character to evoke that particular feeling of melancholia by the end of the story.

But this is a shoujo right? Are tragic endings possible in this genre?

Why do you think that "Soo Won earns it? ("sins")" Because he killed somebody? Then nearly everybody in this series ( even the main character Yona) would deserve to die.

Or is it a cruel deed based on the fact that it is Yona s father? ( Though it seems he is also the person that killed Soo Won s own father, his own brother).

 

[@Aylinn]

Yeah, the whole killing incident in Awa arc makes it possible to use the arguments that people have against Su-won to use against Yona.

After all, Kum-Ji might have had a family. He might have had a daughter whom he loved and spoiled with clothes and jewellery. Maybe he was not a good governor, but was a decent father?

Not to mention that Yona might have at least tried to reason with him to be a good governor.

 

[Mini_kinkin]

I think by "sins" @Trjpyo means betraying Yona and Hak...not killing people - but I could be wrong.

Anyway, that trope is very cliche, if he dies at the end to "atone" it would be wayyyy to cliche and would just be a way to appease people who hate him and somehow redeem his character in their eyes. To make Soo-Won "good" and "sacrificial" and kill him off just to make him likeable for his antis would be lazy writing in my eyes.

I hope the author doesnt use his character to evoke that particular feeling of melancholia by the end of the story.

Yes basically, to use him to evoke feelings of pity or sadness would be stupid.