Conditional Ajeel vs Natsu

[Brandish μ]

Ajeel vs Natsu - the battle that was possibly foreshadowed but never happened...

Location: Alakatasia (Ajeel v Team Natsu). They are on the ground.
Time: Alvarez arc, specifically ch446 (where they first met)

Restrictions:
- Ajeel being cocky
- Dragon Force or BDKM (Natsu can use all FDK spells he's shown before he took the bandages off)
- END curse power or use of anti-demon magic.

A win is deemed when the opponent cannot continue, for whatever reason. Both wizards are blood-lusted from the get-go.

 

[Arjuna]

Natsu even without his DF he will be able to defeat Ajeel in mid difficulty.If DF was included He Would have OneShotted Ajeel.

--- Double Post Merged, Jan 15, 2016, Original Post Date: Jan 15, 2016 ---

Ajeel vs Natsu - the battle that was possibly foreshadowed but never happened...

Location: Alakatasia (Ajeel v Team Natsu). They are on the ground.
Time: Alvarez arc, specifically ch446 (where they first met)

Restrictions:
- Ajeel being cocky
- Dragon Force or BDKM (Natsu can use all FDK spells he's shown before he took the bandages off)
- END curse power or use of anti-demon magic.

A win is deemed when the opponent cannot continue, for whatever reason. Both wizards are blood-lusted from the get-go.

I doubt this will not happen.Ajeel is still alive and can come back.

 

[BluePegasus]

Ajeel takes this with high diff.

 

[Ice devil slayer]

Natsu wins mid diff

 

[Arjuna]

Ajeel takes this with high diff.

Why do you think Ajeel will win.What Little Battle We saw in Alvarez Kingdom Natsu was definetly the Superior.

 

[BluePegasus]

Why do you think Ajeel will win.What Little Battle We saw in Alvarez Kingdom Natsu was definetly the Superior.

Well, the main reason is because Ajeel is a Spriggan. His power is way stronger than any mage from Ishgar. What happened in Alvarez wasn't really a fight. The only thing they did was escape. Once Ajeel caught them with his sand grave, they're all close to be defeated. It's true that Natsu escaped it and knocked him down, but he sure didn't defeat him.

 

[Arjuna]

Well, the main reason is because Ajeel is a Spriggan. His power is way stronger than any mage from Ishgar. What happened in Alvarez wasn't really a fight. The only thing they did was escape. Once Ajeel caught them with his sand grave, they're all close to be defeated. It's true that Natsu escaped it and knocked him down, but he sure didn't defeat him.

That's because of Makarov.

 

[Brandish μ]

It's pretty close I think. Natsu, unlike Erza, matches up better against Ajeel. Sure Erza had a water sword and Nakagami... but these things only allowed her to make a hit. She was pretty much handicapped for her other weapons.

Natsu can..
- use his DS senses in Sands world to find Ajeel or sense he is coming
- evaporate sand
- has the damage capacity and AoE to warrant serious concern for Ajeel level opponents; particularly with FDK spells

Ajeel can..
- summon enough sand to equal out Natsu's fire. Even if the fire evaporates the sand it's better than actually taking the damage to the body.
- using Sandworld or by merging with the sand Ajeel can basically teleport
- drain a lot of power if he gets a hold of Natsu

In terms of magic power I think it's safe to assume Ajeel has more. When Natsu grabbed his arm against Brandish/Ajeel it kinda tipped me off that their MP is above his. So this gives Ajeel an advantage. I think Natsu's magic is more combat effective, which helps him bridge the gap in power (this is probably a small gap).

I'm gonna say Ajeel wins. Or whoever wins does so with a high difficulty match.

--- Double Post Merged, Jan 15, 2016, Original Post Date: Jan 15, 2016 ---

I doubt this will not happen.Ajeel is still alive and can come back.

True. It's more that I expected Natsu to face Ajeel first up. And I didn't expect Erza to get the job, particularly with Di Maria and Brandish as strong female opponents (and Ajeel had advantages over Erza).

 

[Arjuna]

It's pretty close I think. Natsu, unlike Erza, matches up better against Ajeel. Sure Erza had a water sword and Nakagami... but these things only allowed her to make a hit. She was pretty much handicapped for her other weapons.

Natsu can..
- use his DS senses in Sands world to find Ajeel or sense he is coming
- evaporate sand
- has the damage capacity and AoE to warrant serious concern for Ajeel level opponents; particularly with FDK spells

Ajeel can..
- summon enough sand to equal out Natsu's fire. Even if the fire evaporates the sand it's better than actually taking the damage to the body.
- using Sandworld or by merging with the sand Ajeel can basically teleport
- drain a lot of power if he gets a hold of Natsu

In terms of magic power I think it's safe to assume Ajeel has more. When Natsu grabbed his arm against Brandish/Ajeel it kinda tipped me off that their MP is above his. So this gives Ajeel an advantage. I think Natsu's magic is more combat effective, which helps him bridge the gap in power (this is probably a small gap).

I'm gonna say Ajeel wins. Or whoever wins does so with a high difficulty match.

--- Double Post Merged, Jan 15, 2016, Original Post Date: Jan 15, 2016 ---

True. It's more that I expected Natsu to face Ajeel first up. And I didn't expect Erza to get the job, particularly with Di Maria and Brandish as strong female opponents (and Ajeel had advantages over Erza).

He burnt his Ant pit So There is no reason why can't burn his Sand World.Moreover He Was holding back his power against Ajeel as he later told Gajeel that He is Holding back his Power.

 

[kkck]

If it's natsu's base form I would think that ajir wins this without much difficulty. We saw how erza fared against ajir. Even when she got her magic back she was mostly helpless against him. It took a decent bit of help for her to get the winning blow on him. And as strong as natsu is, I doubt his base form is that much stronger or even stronger at all than erza.

As for FDK spells, I think it depends on what exactly they are to begin with. In principle they are powerful spells, we saw how his normal attack did nothing against the god and his FDK attack actually ended him. In that regard it just might be enough to actually do the same to a springan. However I do think it is important to consider what FDK spells are.Considering the naming natsu has used it is very well possible that natsu can't use it anymore because he does not have any of igneel's power anymore and it is entirely possible he was using small fragments of that power. If FDK is a flame he can use on his own then it comes down to what exactly does it take for natsu to use it. In any case if the flame is not related to igneel's power then using it is probably taxing and not in itself capable of taking down a springan.

If dragon force is a thing then natsu should be able to fight at least on par with ajir (which is still impressive considering even erza never came close to such a thing). And of course, FDK mode would probably allow natsu to beat ajir instantly and without resistance. The thing allowed natsu the power to fight on par with zeref and had the sheer raw power to set the ground ablaze, it is probably the most power we have seen from a human in the manga so far.

--- Double Post Merged, Jan 15, 2016, Original Post Date: Jan 15, 2016 ---

He burnt his Ant pit So There is no reason why can't burn his Sand World.Moreover He Was holding back his power against Ajeel as he later told Gajeel that He is Holding back his Power.

True, he burned the sand pit... However ajir was taking it incredibly easy on them. Sand world is ajir using his actual full power which should be incomparably more than what he did when he first met the gang. Just look at the extent to which ajir overpowered erza with it. Erza even after dealing damage was nothing to ajir and erza won exclusively because of all the help she got. Erza even had weapons which specifically countered sand and even then she did not manage to hold her ground against sand world.

 

[Brandish μ]

He burnt his Ant pit So There is no reason why can't burn his Sand World.Moreover He Was holding back his power against Ajeel as he later told Gajeel that He is Holding back his Power.

Yea I do agree Natsu can burn Ajeel's sand, but the amount of sand is on different scales. Even Sands of Death is much bigger than Ant Lion Pit. Sandsworld is bigger than Magnolia in size.

As for the holding back of power this was only in the fight in Magnolia, not the one in Alvarez. Against Ajeel Natsu didn't really get a chance to fight. In Magnolia Natsu held back so he could manage his MP in a war situation.

--- Double Post Merged, Jan 15, 2016, Original Post Date: Jan 15, 2016 ---

If it's natsu's base form I would think that ajir wins this without much difficulty. We saw how erza fared against ajir. Even when she got her magic back she was mostly helpless against him. It took a decent bit of help for her to get the winning blow on him. And as strong as natsu is, I doubt his base form is that much stronger or even stronger at all than erza.

Erza matches up poorly to Ajeel. She basically only has 3 options: Wind sword to blow away sand, Nepute so she can hit his sand body, and Nakagami. They're powerful but she couldn't use Benisakura for example, which is either her best or close to it for offense.

Natsu has the AoE moves which hold up much better against sand.

As for FDK spells, I think it depends on what exactly they are to begin with. In principle they are powerful spells, we saw how his normal attack did nothing against the god and his FDK attack actually ended him. In that regard it just might be enough to actually do the same to a springan. However I do think it is important to consider what FDK spells are.Considering the naming natsu has used it is very well possible that natsu can't use it anymore because he does not have any of igneel's power anymore and it is entirely possible he was using small fragments of that power. If FDK is a flame he can use on his own then it comes down to what exactly does it take for natsu to use it. In any case if the flame is not related to igneel's power then using it is probably taxing and not in itself capable of taking down a springan.

@bold: FDK is definitely stronger. But this comparison illustrate it. You'd got Natsu's fist against the war god, and then you have this. Basically it's just a difference in effort. The same spell was used on Ajeel. There's certainly a difference in capability between FDK and FD spells, but the war god comparison is not a fair indication imo. Do I think FD iron fist would have beaten the God? No, I give Natsu the benefit of the doubt to know what would work.

 

[Arjuna]

Yea I do agree Natsu can burn Ajeel's sand, but the amount of sand is on different scales. Even Sands of Death is much bigger than Ant Lion Pit. Sandsworld is bigger than Magnolia in size.

As for the holding back of power this was only in the fight in Magnolia, not the one in Alvarez. Against Ajeel Natsu didn't really get a chance to fight. In Magnolia Natsu held back so he could manage his MP in a war situation.

--- Double Post Merged, Jan 15, 2016, Original Post Date: Jan 15, 2016 ---

Erza matches up poorly to Ajeel. She basically only has 3 options: Wind sword to blow away sand, Nepute so she can hit his sand body, and Nakagami. They're powerful but she couldn't use Benisakura for example, which is either her best or close to it for offense.

Natsu has the AoE moves which hold up much better against sand.



@bold: FDK is definitely stronger. But this comparison illustrate it. You'd got Natsu's fist against the war god, and then you have this. Basically it's just a difference in effort. The same spell was used on Ajeel. There's certainly a difference in capability between FDK and FD spells, but the war god comparison is not a fair indication imo. Do I think FD iron fist would have beaten the God? No, I give Natsu the benefit of the doubt to know what would work.

It is not right to compare Natsu and erza after the timeskip.Natsu has surpassed erza after the timeskip by comportable margins even in his base form.He burnt the Ant Pit without any effort.So it will not be surprising if he doesn't use too much power to burn Sand World.

 

[Ice devil slayer]

Wait we are talking about bdkm natsu or base natsu ? Bdkm natsu wins mid diff possibly low but in base he lose high/extrême diff

 

[kkck]

Erza matches up poorly to Ajeel. She basically only has 3 options: Wind sword to blow away sand, Nepute so she can hit his sand body, and Nakagami. They're powerful but she couldn't use Benisakura for example, which is either her best or close to it for offense.

Natsu has the AoE moves which hold up much better against sand.

@bold: FDK is definitely stronger. But this comparison illustrate it. You'd got Natsu's fist against the war god, and then you have this. Basically it's just a difference in effort. The same spell was used on Ajeel. There's certainly a difference in capability between FDK and FD spells, but the war god comparison is not a fair indication imo. Do I think FD iron fist would have beaten the God? No, I give Natsu the benefit of the doubt to know what would work.

Erza in no form or context fares poorly against ajir. At least not in a context relevant to her being a poor matchup. Her magic is the single most versatile magic in the series so far, she has armors and magics for everything. Only lucy has a chance at comparing to erza in terms of sheer versatility. At least the wind and water sword specifically and literally counter sand and ajir was still mostly unfazed by that. Erza's only real weakness is the guy that was with brandish and could negate space time magic. Other than that erza not only is not at a disadvantage against ajir but she has the ideal magic to counter sand. The issue was that even with the perfect counters she had she was still not strong enough.

Natsu does seem to have more AOF however I am not sure of how that would be much better.

I am not sure if there was that much of a difference in effort in those links. The head of the war god was still pretty big and even then we saw a pretty big explosion. I think there is a very real chance the amount of power there was comparable and then natsu used FDK attacks to end him.

 

[Arjuna]

Team Natsu was fleeing in Alvarez Empire so Natsu couldn't use all against Ajeel so He should be above Ajeel in that Fight.Moreover I don't see any difference between Alvarez Empire Natsu and Natsu fighting in Magnolia.Both places I feel MP wise Same.

 

[kkck]

Team Natsu was fleeing in Alvarez Empire so Natsu couldn't use all against Ajeel so He should be above Ajeel in that Fight.Moreover I don't see any difference between Alvarez Empire Natsu and Natsu fighting in Magnolia.Both places I feel MP wise Same.

I am not saying there is a power difference between natsu at those stages. If anything that would be more or less my point. I don't see why he should be above ajir though. In context almost everyone did something to hold ajir back. Grey froze the giant golem, lucy and grey dealt with some missiles, natsu dealt with the sand pit... Erza didn't do much back then but she was the one driving and the one that ultimately defeated ajir with some help.

 

[BluePegasus]

I can't see a way that Natsu could defeat Ajeel. I'm not saying that Natsu is weak, but how could a mage who isn't even S-Class defeat a Spriggan with easy diff? Natsu could keep up with Ajeel for a while just because his magic may be in an advantage against Ajeel. But Natsu can't win against him on his own. Effecting his spells is differect than effecting him.

As for Erza, she did not really defeat Ajeel. Without Jupiter, Erza would've been defeated.

 

[Arjuna]

Erza in no form or context fares poorly against ajir. At least not in a context relevant to her being a poor matchup. Her magic is the single most versatile magic in the series so far, she has armors and magics for everything. Only lucy has a chance at comparing to erza in terms of sheer versatility. At least the wind and water sword specifically and literally counter sand and ajir was still mostly unfazed by that. Erza's only real weakness is the guy that was with brandish and could negate space time magic. Other than that erza not only is not at a disadvantage against ajir but she has the ideal magic to counter sand. The issue was that even with the perfect counters she had she was still not strong enough.

Natsu does seem to have more AOF however I am not sure of how that would be much better.

I am not sure if there was that much of a difference in effort in those links. The head of the war god was still pretty big and even then we saw a pretty big explosion. I think there is a very real chance the amount of power there was comparable and then natsu used FDK attacks to end him.

erza was being clearly dominated by Ajeel.Ajeel was distracted because of Natsu's punching of bakyll and erza gave a slash which would have killed normal human mages.Even after that He proceeded to kill erza but was blown away by Jupiter.

--- Double Post Merged, Jan 15, 2016, Original Post Date: Jan 15, 2016 ---

I can't see a way that Natsu could defeat Ajeel. I'm not saying that Natsu is weak, but how could a mage who isn't even S-Class defeat a Spriggan with easy diff? Natsu could keep up with Ajeel for a while just because his magic may be in an advantage against Ajeel. But Natsu can't win against him on his own. Effecting his spells is differect than effecting him.

As for Erza, she did not really defeat Ajeel. Without Jupiter, Erza would've been defeated.

Then Natsu shouldn't have defeated Bluenote who is a Wizard Saint Opponent.S Class Exams didn't happen.If It had happened Then Natsu would have been S Class Wizard.

--- Double Post Merged, Jan 15, 2016 ---

I am not saying there is a power difference between natsu at those stages. If anything that would be more or less my point. I don't see why he should be above ajir though. In context almost everyone did something to hold ajir back. Grey froze the giant golem, lucy and grey dealt with some missiles, natsu dealt with the sand pit... Erza didn't do much back then but she was the one driving and the one that ultimately defeated ajir with some help.

erza's performance was worst against Ajeel in Alvarez Empire.She hurled Two or Three Swords at Ajeel which were all turned to sand by Ajeel.She didn't do anything else.gray's attacks had no effect on Ajeel's sand while Natsu casually burnt Ant Pit.If He uses bit more energy then he can easily destroy Sand World.Moreover in 2-3 Fightings Natsu was clearly above Ajeel.If you say Ajeel was not serious then Natsu was also not going all out as they were escaping.

 

[Brandish μ]

Erza in no form or context fares poorly against ajir. At least not in a context relevant to her being a poor matchup. Her magic is the single most versatile magic in the series so far, she has armors and magics for everything. Only lucy has a chance at comparing to erza in terms of sheer versatility. At least the wind and water sword specifically and literally counter sand and ajir was still mostly unfazed by that. Erza's only real weakness is the guy that was with brandish and could negate space time magic. Other than that erza not only is not at a disadvantage against ajir but she has the ideal magic to counter sand. The issue was that even with the perfect counters she had she was still not strong enough.

Edit: When I say poorly, I mean this in the sense that she doesn't stack up equally like others do; a water/wind wizard might stack up favourably. Basically in FT match-ups and strategy is not as important as MP and abilities. So the match-up issue is not as big as I am probably writing it down as. But I do believe it puts Erza a little behind the 8-ball compared to other wizards.

She has a plethora of armours and weapons, yet only 3 work. Ajeel said himself that a sword couldn't hurt him, implying that someone like Erza would have a tough time.

Her versatility allowed her to actually stand a chance. If she was a one trick pony she would have lost. Neptune allowed her to slash Ajeel as if he didn't have sand body is what I am saying (maybe it did more damage coz it's water??).

Compared to a wizard like Natsu, Laxus, Gray, Jellal... Erza suffers more disadvantages purely because of what Ajeel's magic can do. Below is also a reason why Erza matches up poorly.

Natsu does seem to have more AOF however I am not sure of how that would be much better.

Erza's wind slashes cleared a fair bit of sand, she even managed this in sandworld. But there is a clear difference between that AoE and something like what Natsu, or even Gray can do. This is not a blight on Erza, it's just that her attacks are concentrated. How much of a difference would this make? It depends. Against a small amount of sand I think AoE would have no real impact. Against something like Sands of Death it's pretty hard to stop that without something big.

I am not sure if there was that much of a difference in effort in those links. The head of the war god was still pretty big and even then we saw a pretty big explosion. I think there is a very real chance the amount of power there was comparable and then natsu used FDK attacks to end him.

When Natsu was standing on the forehead it looked say 15m wide, which I think looks less than the other FD fist. Effort, or at least MP used is different. This matters because as seen with FDK demolition fist he put a lot into it.

--- Double Post Merged, Jan 15, 2016, Original Post Date: Jan 15, 2016 ---

He burnt the Ant Pit without any effort.So it will not be surprising if he doesn't use too much power to burn Sand World.

To cover the whole of Sandworld is an extraordinary roar. It would be a lot bigger than anything he has done.

 

[kkck]

I can't see a way that Natsu could defeat Ajeel. I'm not saying that Natsu is weak, but how could a mage who isn't even S-Class defeat a Spriggan with easy diff? Natsu could keep up with Ajeel for a while just because his magic may be in an advantage against Ajeel. But Natsu can't win against him on his own. Effecting his spells is differect than effecting him.

As for Erza, she did not really defeat Ajeel. Without Jupiter, Erza would've been defeated.

Well, the S class label at this stage is more or less irrelevant. Natsu has already shown power at least greater than what we have seen from gildarts so far and grey is able to keep up with that. And if we consider how lucy performed against multiple demons whereas mira was beaten by one we also have a case for lucy being easily well over the S class as it was initially introduced in the manga. Heck, even wendy did better than mira against demons once dragon force was a thing.