Voting Round 2 Alucard vs. Satoru Gojo

[Demonspeed]

Battle Phase

• You are allowed to vote for one champion.
• After 3 days, the champion with the most votes will proceed into the next round.
• In case of a tie, a staff pick will break it.
• There will be no additional restrictions. A character will have access to all of his/her abilities according to the lore.

 

[z.5]

I don't know Gojo that well - but going by what I read in the other battle thread, I'm not sure that there's anything he can do against Alucard

added to this it looks like Alucard's Schrödinger power is perfectly suited to negate many of Gojo's abilities (one potentially troublesome one [for others, not for Alucard] in particular being 'The Infinity') - it doesn't matter how much space Gojo tries to make between him and Alucard, as Alucard is quite literally everywhere (at the far end of the infinite distance, right next to Gojo, and everywhere else in between)

So long as Alucard has the ability to hurt Gojo, I reckon he should take the win here

For convenience, here is the Alucard battle thread also - convenience for me, mainly, as it isn't my nomination and I'll be damned before I post any/all of Alucard's abilities in this thread also

 

[Arjuna]

Alucard wins this.

He is incorporeal so there is no way Gojo can defeat him.

 

[Demonspeed]

I don't remember much about Hellsing but I don't see how Alucard could win here. Sure, he has that Schrodinger thing but it's a defensive ability. I don't see what he has which could put Gojou down.

I don't see what he could do against things like Gojou's Domain Expansion either.

 

[z.5]

A quick look at the wiki and I'm not convinced it'd work all that well on Alucard

Firstly, I can't see how he'd be able to trap Alucard in any separate 'space' - being everywhere is a super broken ability

Secondly, I can't see how anything Gojo does in that dimension could permanently take Alucard out - even if he could [somehow] trap Alucard (which I doubt), 'guaranteed hits' mean next to nothing if Alucard can shrug them all off

Thirdly, it sounds like it takes an awful lot out of Gojo to use this ability. Once cast and avoided/negated/outlasted by Alucard, Gojo sounds like he will be in an even more precarious position than he was at the start of the fight

As to what Alucard can do - I dunno how tough Gojo is. Alucard is extremely strong (being able to punch through people with ease), he has some pretty impressive weaponry, magic - and, if he can bite Gojo, it's over

 

[Riku]

Schrödinger is not just a defensive thing. Since Alucard can exist on different realities or planes at once, like in Gojous mind, he can get past Infinity and just rip him to pieces in his shadow beast form.

Not sure Gojou can hit him with anything.

 

[cracker]

Alucard is also immortal and Gojo is mortal not to mention Alucard has mind control, mind control strong enough to make someone completely abandon their self-preservation instincts.

--- Double Post Merged, Apr 5, 2021, Original Post Date: Apr 5, 2021 ---

A quick look at the wiki and I'm not convinced it'd work all that well on Alucard

Firstly, I can't see how he'd be able to trap Alucard in any separate 'space' - being everywhere is a super broken ability

Secondly, I can't see how anything Gojo does in that dimension could permanently take Alucard out - even if he could [somehow] trap Alucard (which I doubt), 'guaranteed hits' mean next to nothing if Alucard can shrug them all off

Thirdly, it sounds like it takes an awful lot out of Gojo to use this ability. Once cast and avoided/negated/outlasted by Alucard, Gojo sounds like he will be in an even more precarious position than he was at the start of the fight

As to what Alucard can do - I dunno how tough Gojo is. Alucard is extremely strong (being able to punch through people with ease), he has some pretty impressive weaponry, magic - and, if he can bite Gojo, it's over

Gojo can spam domain but he gets mind controlled and told to drop infinity and gets filled to brim with gunshots.

 

[Lambu]

I really dont see how Schrodinger Alucard is that op.

He's technically inmortal, cause as long as he doesnt lose awareness of himself he will exist and not exist at the same time, he's an anomaly tied to his mental state.
As long as he's observed he cannot vanish and appear somewhere else too. Those two weak points are exploitable by a skilled fighter like Gojo.

Also I dont know if its different in Hellsing Ultimate but the concept of Schrodinger's duality implies the "cat" can be in a place where it can exist and can possibly reach. It doesnt exist everywhere and anywhere. For example the cat cannot exist in space or in the moon because its not part of its relative plain of existence.

I dont know if this is not the same for the series but I would be surprised if it was like that. The villain would be able to exist inside his opponent and explode them from inside? Ugh...

Leaning towards Gojo for now.

 

[cracker]

I really dont see how Schrodinger Alucard is that op.

He's technically inmortal, cause as long as he doesnt lose awareness of himself he will exist and not exist at the same time, he's an anomaly tied to his mental state.
As long as he's observed he cannot vanish and appear somewhere else too. Those two weak points are exploitable by a skilled fighter like Gojo.

Also I dont know if its different in Hellsing Ultimate but the concept of Schrodinger's duality implies the "cat" can be in a place where it can exist and can possibly reach. It doesnt exist everywhere and anywhere. For example the cat cannot exist in space or in the moon because its not part of its relative plain of existence.

I dont know if this is not the same for the series but I would be surprised if it was like that. The villain would be able to exist inside his opponent and explode them from inside? Ugh...

Leaning towards Gojo for now.

The cat is just a loose interpretation of the real paradox and isn't quite the same thing, at least it would appear to be the case. Schrodinger was shown to enter into someone's mind, quite literally, and walks around but we haven't seen him appear in someone and cause them to explode although it would very well be possible based on the mind feat.

 

[Lambu]

The cat is just a loose interpretation of the real paradox and isn't quite the same thing, at least it would appear to be the case. Schrodinger was shown to enter into someone's mind, quite literally, and walks around but we haven't seen him appear in someone and cause them to explode although it would very well be possible based on the mind feat.

Yeah I know the experiment was based on whether the cat was alive or not. One couldnt know until it was observed, so until that indeterminacy was solved then its status would be "alive" and "dead" at the same time.

Another approach to it tho was that when faced with the unknown status of the cat, there could also be the possibility of it not being inside the box, therefore it could be anywhere (possible ofc, relative infinity is not actual infinity in space-time)

This paradox obviously depends on the cat not being observed tho. The moment you can determine its status/situation then the paradox is no more.

Hellsing could be just not following this principle but I would be surprised if it wasn't. If so the Schrodinger guy that Alucard absorbed wouldnt be just a "spy" imo.
It sounds like an extremely powerful defensive hax, but it has ways to be countered, specially if the opponent is skilled and faster than the user.

Maybe he can get inside people's minds as a product of complementing that power with another skill he has? I dont know much about the series just theorizing.

 

[cracker]

Yeah I know the experiment was based on whether the cat was alive or not. One couldnt know until it was observed, so until that indeterminacy was solved then its status would be "alive" and "dead" at the same time.

Another approach to it tho was that when faced with the unknown status of the cat, there could also be the possibility of it not being inside the box, therefore it could be anywhere (possible ofc, relative infinity is not actual infinity in space-time)

This paradox obviously depends on the cat not being observed tho. The moment you can determine its status/situation then the paradox is no more.

Hellsing could be just not following this principle but I would be surprised if it wasn't. If so the Schrodinger guy that Alucard absorbed wouldnt be just a "spy" imo.
It sounds like an extremely powerful defensive hax, but it has ways to be countered, specially if the opponent is skilled and faster than the user.

Maybe he can get inside people's minds as a product of complementing that power with another skill he has? I dont know much about the series just theorizing.

He hasn't demonstrated another other ability, he was created with the sole purpose of effectively removing Alucard from existence. However in the end fail to do so on a permanent basis. He definitely appeared in the mind of the person.

 

[Demonspeed]

I'd say the thing with Alucard is that his Schrodinger's ability makes him hard to kill. He was OP even without it in his verse but against characters with greater powers it's just hard to put him down permanently.

 

[Riku]

it has ways to be countered, specially if the opponent is skilled and faster than the user.

Speed doesn't help though, since it isn't something that is activated or done as action. That's simply how Alucard is. Everywhere and nowhere.

 

[Nii]

I mean the question is if Gojo can trap Alucard with Domain Expansion, at which point he can basically put him to sleep and can hit him with a 100% chance no matter what.Meaning Alucard wouldn't even realize he's attacked. It should also technically qualify as "everywhere" (the Domain), so if that happened I feel there's a good chance Gojo could beat Alucard.

And Gojo's perfectly deadly, if anyone's wondering. Dude can literally just shoot massive laserbeams like it's nothing.



A bit torn on this battle, but I don't think this is such an easy win for Alucard as some people make it sound.

 

[Lambu]

He hasn't demonstrated another other ability, he was created with the sole purpose of effectively removing Alucard from existence. However in the end fail to do so on a permanent basis. He definitely appeared in the mind of the person.

So in Hellsing the golden rule is ignored depending on the situation... thats a bummer :/

Speed doesn't help though, since it isn't something that is activated or done as action. That's simply how Alucard is. Everywhere and nowhere.

I meant speed as in being able to keep up with Alucard and never taking its attention off him, so he cannot "relativize himself". This is if Alucard's Schrodinger power worked with the rules which hold its name and isnt just "haha Im omnipresent".

For example a DBZ character would technically be hell for Alucard if he worked with the principle, cause as long as the fighter can sense Alucard's energy they would have him observed, rendering his skill almost useless.

But if Hellsing makes this skill work under impossibilities even in relative terms then I dont know anymore.

 

[Riku]

Didn't we see already "mind encounters" happen with domains though? I mean, didn't Itadori have an encounter with Sukuna while within a domain. This would mean, that while in a domain, Alucard can still exist in Gojous mind, and destroy him from the inside.

--- Double Post Merged, Apr 6, 2021, Original Post Date: Apr 6, 2021 ---

"relativize himself"

But that's the thing, he doesn't relativize himself actively, he is relative all the time.

--- Double Post Merged, Apr 6, 2021 ---

Also, even if Schrödinger is somehow made useless, Alucard is still a void-like shadow beast thing that seems to take almost no damage from anything, expect maybe Andersons holy weaponry.

In that scenario I don't know though if Alucard could get past the Infinity. Can Gojou make a 360 sphere of infinity around him? Because what I remember from Alucard, his shadowform could cover a whole room from all sides (or a domain I guess). This obviously only if Schrödinger somehow doesn't work.

 

[Nii]

Didn't we see already "mind encounters" happen with domains though? I mean, didn't Itadori have an encounter with Sukuna while within a domain. This would mean, that while in a domain, Alucard can still exist in Gojous mind, and destroy him from the inside.

I mean that's a special case bc they're fused to some extent, but Gojo's Domain works different in any case. Each and every person's mind gets flooded with infinite information basically, so you stop thinking while you slowly die.

This is only stated in the manga later on, but basically a normal person can hardly withstand 0.2 seconds within that domain. Even Alucard would probably die after some time, without being able to do a single thing about it.

 

[z.5]

And Gojo's perfectly deadly, if anyone's wondering. Dude can literally just shoot massive laserbeams like it's nothing

It isn't about being 'deadly' it's about dealing permanent damage to Alucard - he regenerated from everything before he got Schrödinger's powers - and Schrödinger's powers just mean that he reappears somewhere else having never suffered the attack in the first place

So, sure, blow him to bits, reduce him to his constitute parts - it still won't get you all that far

He's technically inmortal, cause as long as he doesnt lose awareness of himself he will exist and not exist at the same time, he's an anomaly tied to his mental state.

As long as he's observed he cannot vanish and appear somewhere else too. Those two weak points are exploitable by a skilled fighter like Gojo.

But if Hellsing makes this skill work under impossibilities even in relative terms then I dont know anymore.

But here is where Schrödinger in Hellsing differs from the thought experiment proposed by the physicist with the same name - it isn't about some external observer 'detecting' Alucard/Schrödinger, it's all about Alucard/Schrödinger observing himself

Not once was it stated that he couldn't teleport if someone observed him - in fact, if we use the dream sequence as an example, he can still disappear/appear somewhere else even when constantly being observed by an external entity (Zorin)

So, yes, it really does appear that he can vanish and appear elsewhere when observed

Also I don't know if its different in Hellsing Ultimate but the concept of Schrodinger's duality implies the "cat" can be in a place where it can exist and can possibly reach

This is never stated - so I don't know why you feel the need to introduce arbitrary limits to the range of his ability

The most direct reading of what Alucard and Schrödinger said ('everywhere and nowhere') certainly reads like the big 'everywhere' and not the small 'physical world, no further than ground level'

Now, sure, it would've been nice to have a nice panel of Alucard/Schrödinger on the moon - but what would be the narrative point of wasting the ink on that?

In fact, we have evidence of him being places outside of this small sphere - you can argue that the mind visit could be appearing as changes in electrical signal within Zorin's brain (though how that's a place anywhere 'can exist' I'm not sure), but following Alucard gaining Schrödinger's powers and 'losing himself in a sea of souls' (becoming unable to observe himself and thus ceasing to be) he still was able to act/do stuff. This was after all traces of him had gone from the Earth

I'm not sure where he was/how he could still do stuff but he was somewhere and he was still able to do stuff

I dont know if this is not the same for the series but I would be surprised if it was like that. The villain would be able to exist inside his opponent and explode them from inside? Ugh...

Yeah, I'm not gonna argue that - it was never shown and, frankly, I don't think Alucard needs to be able to do this to win

Even if we make Schrödinger's ability purely defensive (whatever that means - considering it can be used similar to a Shunpo [from Bleach] to move somewhere unexpected to attack from) it's still more 'defence' than Gojo has [currently] shown to be able to deal with

 

[Lambu]

It isn't about being 'deadly' it's about dealing permanent damage to Alucard - he regenerated from everything before he got Schrödinger's powers - and Schrödinger's powers just mean that he reappears somewhere else having never suffered the attack in the first place

So, sure, blow him to bits, reduce him to his constitute parts - it still won't get you all that far



But here is where Schrödinger in Hellsing differs from the tought experiment proposed by the physicist with the same name - it isn't about some external observer 'detecting' Alucard/Schrödinger, it's all about Alucard/Schrödinger observing himself

Not once was it stated that he couldn't teleport if someone observed him - in fact, if we use the dream sequence as an example, he can still disappear/appear somewhere else even when constantly being observed by an external entity (Zorin)

So, yes, it really does appear that he can vanish and appear elsewhere when observed


This is never stated - so I don't know why you feel the need to introduce arbitrary limits to the range of his ability

The most direct reading of what Alucard and Schrödinger said ('everywhere and nowhere') certainly reads like the big 'everywhere' and not the small 'physical world, no further than ground level'

Now, sure, it would've been nice to have a nice panel of Alucard/Schrödinger on the moon - but what would be the narrative point of wasting the ink on that?

In fact, we have evidence of him being places outside of this small sphere - you can argue that the mind visit could be appearing as changes in electrical signal within Zorin's brain (though how that's a place anywhere 'can exist' I'm not sure), but following Alucard gaining Schrödinger's powers and 'losing himself in a sea of souls' (becoming unable to observe himself and thus ceasing to be) he still was able to act/do stuff. This was after all traces of him had gone from the Earth

I'm not sure where he was/how he could still do stuff but he was somewhere and he was still able to do stuff


Yeah, I'm not gonna argue that - it was never shown and, frankly, I don't think Alucard needs to be able to do this to win

Even if we make Schrödinger's ability purely defensive (whatever that means - considering it can be used similar to a Shunpo [from Bleach] to move somewhere unexpected to attack from) it's still more 'defence' than Gojo has [currently] shown to be able to deal with

I know I know, Im just going over how the concept of his ability should work. If Alucard is the only one that needs to observe himself to exist in any place thats bs as big as a house, but this is anime I guess

 

[z.5]

I know I know, Im just going over how the concept of his ability should work. If Alucard is the only one that needs to observe himself to exist in any place thats bs as big as a house, but this is anime I guess

Yeah, this tournament is reminding me of just how ludicrous manga/anime characters are - it's frankly beyond belief how some of these characters ever have any difficulty [at all] in their respective stories