American Politics

[kkck]

And so, here we are. The end of the road. The new president is the guy who called most mexicans rapists and criminals. The guy who said.... every single deplorable thing a candidate could say basically. I guess there isn't much to say about this. Trump is the most powerful man in the world with a senate and house majority. For at least 2 years he will be able to do as he pleases with virtually no holds. All we can hope for is that the people he appoints to different positions have a shred of integrity and actually do their job.

One thing that must be said is that this is entirely the democrats fault. It's all because of their hubris and complacency. Hindsight is 20/20 yada yada yada but that is exactly why we can see the signs were clearly there. Every single person who thought a trump presidency was impossible needs to take a good long look in the mirror and tell themselves "I am an idiot". Of course trump had a chance, he was in the race. I said it a few times, the only plausible reaction to trump even being in the race should be absolute and utter panic. Instead we had complacent democrat voters who thought this was in the bag. Members of the democrat party who told people they had this in the bag. Which is a stupid thing because they should have been telling people to panic and show up to vote because every single thing obama did can be undone in a day now. I would bet a buck that but a few days from now we will see that black people didn't show up to vote as much as expected, that millenials will not show up to vote as much as expected and so on. Voting for the lesser evil is absolutely necessary, it's basic survival instinct. Quite literally considering the all the people who will be left without obamacare some time from now. Hopefully the republicans will have the sense to at least replace obamacare with something rather than just repealing it and calling it a day.

Overall, it wasn't just hillary that got beaten. It was anyone with a progressive mindset at the US. A republican house, senate and presidency will be able to counter everything progresives have done over the past few years and are still trying to accomplish. What will follow is tax cuts, deregulation and god knows what in regards to foreign policy. I just hope to god trump doesn't fire a nuke or spreads his legs open for putin.

Of course, trump does get two years of unchecked power of which you should be terrified because the damage that can be done in that time is huge. Specifically, I would say people at the US should be terrified of what he has said about the press. What trump has said is completely identical to what two bit dictators say about the press in south america (and perhaps other countries as well). If you think trump can't out on this then you are a fool. He will absolutely try to do absolutely everything he has said in that regard and if people don't fight to the very end. But hey, at least you got your second amendment rights, right?

And then, the upside. I can't fathom the democrat party not doing some serious soul searching after this and just cleaning house. They need to reach out to the people they alienated with their hubris and backdoor deals and secrecy. They need to really reach out to bernie and warren supporters and actually be progressive and at least give a semblance of honesty. If they do that there is no reason for them to not retake the house and senate 2 years from now considering the republican's demographic issues are not going to improve.

Oh, and another thing: It seems like hillary actually won the popular vote. Hopefully democrats will have the sense to actually abolish this electoral college nightmare.

 

[Styx]

When did he say all Mexicans are rapists and criminals?

 

[kkck]

And this is entirely too true. We know it. I hope it gets added to history books:

 

[Evil3ye]

Well, as far as the polls go, they did not outright deny this possibility, at least as far as fivethirtyeight goes. One of the final points they made about their projection was that the margin of error of polls was actually enough to turn the election around and there was a huge amount of uncertainty. Whoever won would have won with a paper thin margin and that seems to be what happened. If the polling was bad it was probably in a couple key states rather than a generalized thing.

Well, shouldn't they be monitoring those key swing state the closest, repeating the surveys after each new fart? It doesn't make much sense to me, other than perhaps a channel agenda pro Clinton, trying to demotivate republican voters to even go vote, making it appear hopeless anyways. At least should be raising some creditability questions.

Honestly, that should have been your first warning sign, especially after the email leaks and leaks that revealed media bias.

I sort of just thought it's all a scheme to get clicks and views and shares and money. It certainly raised public interst towards the election, geez even mine. For the first time I was following them closely, although I obviously have no interest in your domestic politics. But man, that form of debate, media coverage, attacks, reveals, what a dirt show.

I'm a little bit afraid that this is going to be a new trend for the future, and especially in Europe, since we here are the keenest on adopting American culture.

 

[Styx]

I sort of just thought it's all a scheme to get clicks and views and shares and money. It certainly raised public interst towards the election, geez even mine. For the first time I was following them closely, although I obviously have no interest in your domestic politics. But man, that form of debate, media coverage, attacks, reveals, what a dirt show.

I'm a little bit afraid that this is going to be a new trend for the future, and especially in Europe, since we here are the keenest on adopting American culture.

I understand that. Three of my neighbors hadn't voted since George Bush (Senior) and the whole media mess is what finally made them vote after decades of feeling unrepresented/uncaring. They started watching news when they haven't gone beyond local in decades because of the signs, the media coverage, attacks etc.

 

[shionoro]

Well guys, you brought that upon yourself

 

[Philia]

Well guys, you brought that upon yourself

People voted for Trump like they voted Brexit. When people are fed up they will go for change even if the change is for worse

 

[Styx]

Wow, Malik Obama is a Trump supporter? I'm shocked!

 

[Onyx Darkmatter]

Wow, Malik Obama is a Trump supporter? I'm shocked!

He did endorsed him a few months ago.


Yeah, I figured Trump would win. The moment he won Florida, Ohio, North Carolina, and even 2 important states for Hillary (Michigan and Wisconsin), was the moment that I figured she would lose the race. Not surprised by the results to be honest, because the moment the DNC leaks hit the surface was the moment Hillary lost.
On top of that, everybody underestimated Trump. Republicans underestimated him during the primaries, and the result: winning the nominee, AND the take-over of the party.
Now, Democrats underestimated him, and now the result: winning the election, and taking over Washington DC with Republicans winning both the House and the Senate. This is a fucking blow-out against Democrats.
Yet, I can't help myself but to say the Democrats are at fault, not the third-parties (we know they're always the losers) or the voters. But if they learn their lesson to never fuck with the people, then maybe they'll do good next time.

Also, I'd like to have a word about this:
http://dailysnark.com/harambe-dead-gorilla-got-11000-votes-president-unites-states/

IT'S NO WONDER WHY WE HAVE SHITTY CANDIDATES.

 

[Styx]

He did endorsed him a few months ago.


Yeah, I figured Trump would win. The moment he won Florida, Ohio, North Carolina, and even 2 important states for Hillary (Michigan and Wisconsin), was the moment that I figured she would lose the race. Not surprised by the results to be honest, because the moment the DNC leaks hit the surface was the moment Hillary lost.
On top of that, everybody underestimated Trump. Republicans underestimated him during the primaries, and the result: winning the nominee, AND the take-over of the party.
Now, Democrats underestimated him, and now the result: winning the election, and taking over Washington DC with Republicans winning both the House and the Senate. This is a fucking blow-out against Democrats.
Yet, I can't help myself but to say the Democrats are at fault, not the third-parties (we know they're always the losers) or the voters. But if they learn their lesson to never fuck with the people, then maybe they'll do good next time.

Wow about the endorsement! I had forgotten Obama had a half brother. You think we would have heard more and seen more of him. It's even stranger that he supports Trump.

I'm pretty shocked that the emails had such a huge impact. I hope that they would because they are pretty friggin' important, but wow. I think they learned their lesson for sure, and their words, actions and support will be carefully selected next time. I hope that Bernie is able to run next election. The Democrats and Republicans and third party voters deserve good options all around so that we don't fee like we're picking evils.

 

[Philia]

Killary leading in terms of popular vote. 2000 all over again. Well we can only hope that his foreign policies will differs from Bush's

 

[Styx]

Killary leading in terms of popular vote. 2000 all over again. Well we can only hope that his foreign policies will differs from Bush's

She's leading by 200,000. Not that big of a lead and not all of the states have finished bringing in their votes. Also, at the time of winning he had the popular vote by a considerable amount.

 

[kkck]

Well, shouldn't they be monitoring those key swing state the closest, repeating the surveys after each new fart? It doesn't make much sense to me, other than perhaps a channel agenda pro Clinton, trying to demotivate republican voters to even go vote, making it appear hopeless anyways. At least should be raising some creditability questions.

Well, poll are happening basically every day from a variety of sources. That is why forecasting models can be updated daily. I am not so sure if that would really work as a pro clinton agenda though. Sure, they can make it seem like its pointless to vote for trump but it can easily backfire as making their own supporters think they have this in the bag and voting is not necessarily urgent. The media did favor clinton but that is not because of some grand corporate agenda but rather because the people involved with the media as a whole usually lean liberal. I think the coverage has been fair though, the media ripped hillary apart for her emails (as far as I can tell) and most of what they said about trump is about things that literally came out of trumps mouth.

--- Double Post Merged, Nov 9, 2016, Original Post Date: Nov 9, 2016 ---

When did he say all Mexicans are rapists and criminals?

Is this directed to me? I guess probably at the same time I said he said that....

 

[Zehahaha]

This is hardly a surprise I guess, I totally understand the Trump voters as much as I understand the Brexit voters, and I think we can expect a similar result in France as well (Marine Le Pen winning or making it to second round)

Politicians/Journalists/Academics have been disconnected from the population, this is a fact. There are multiple reasons for that, but I think mostly is that the current political paradigm is reaching its limit, Brexit/Trump vote represents an anti-establishment vote and this should be a wake up call for politicians to change their way (less focus on their political career and more focus on people's issues). I believe Sanders would've performed better against Trump at this stage than Hillary, both Sanders/Trump represents the anti-establishment and their fight would've been more fierce

 

[Aonori]

Hillary was the wrong candidate from the beginning. With all the scandals already on her name. And before any primaries she had like 500 delegates on her name. Never giving anyone else a chance to get the democratic nomination. GOP played it fair. They could've stopped Trump from getting nominated same way. But chose not to.

True, a criminal like Hillary was a bad candidate, a terrible one, and she getting to be a candidate triggered certain people to vote for Trump that wouldnt have done so otherwise.

 

[kkck]

True, a criminal like Hillary was a bad candidate, a terrible one, and she getting to be a candidate triggered certain people to vote for Trump that wouldnt have done so otherwise.

This is one of the things that irk me: trump as anti establishment. Trump as an anti establishment candidate is a lie. We know for a fact that trump begged the establishment for support. And yet they didn't give it to him. Not in the form of mainstream republicans, not in the form of corporate money.... He just ran with the whole anti establishment thing (if he even did that) because after begging for support he was turned down. Like a petulant child who asks his parents for something and when denied says he didn't want it anyways....

 

[Onyx Darkmatter]

Wow about the endorsement! I had forgotten Obama had a half brother. You think we would have heard more and seen more of him. It's even stranger that he supports Trump.

I'm pretty shocked that the emails had such a huge impact. I hope that they would because they are pretty friggin' important, but wow. I think they learned their lesson for sure, and their words, actions and support will be carefully selected next time. I hope that Bernie is able to run next election. The Democrats and Republicans and third party voters deserve good options all around so that we don't fee like we're picking evils.

True, but I suppose they're a bit different when it comes to politics (or, I think).

I think the DNC had more impact than her scandals, because it just shows how corrupted the DNC is (which, ironically, Debbie won the Representative of District 23 in Florida). People wanted Sanders, but they refused to listen.
Serves them right.

 

[Styx]

Votes still coming in. Trump closing in on lead Hillary has for Popular vote.

Hillary: 59,293,087 | Trump: 59,131,346

True, but I suppose they're a bit different when it comes to politics (or, I think).

I think the DNC had more impact than her scandals, because it just shows how corrupted the DNC is (which, ironically, Debbie won the Representative of District 23 in Florida). People wanted Sanders, but they refused to listen.
Serves them right.

You may be right about the DNC. It is hard to imagine which would have pushed the loose votes and whatnot towards Trump when in my opinion they're both worth abandoning the Democratic nominee for.

They should have listened. They should have listened.

 

[Zehahaha]

This is one of the things that irk me: trump as anti establishment. Trump as an anti establishment candidate is a lie. We know for a fact that trump begged the establishment for support. And yet they didn't give it to him. Not in the form of mainstream republicans, not in the form of corporate money.... He just ran with the whole anti establishment thing (if he even did that) because after begging for support he was turned down. Like a petulant child who asks his parents for something and when denied says he didn't want it anyways....

I don't think it is a lie, he's an anti-establishment in the eyes of the population because first of all his speech is raw, second of all never had a political career before and does not come from a family well known for that for example (Bush, Kennedy etc)

Heck, I'd say it just shows how the Republican party handled this better, Trump is not liked and many republicans spoke against him (especially those who represent the establishment), yet they let him run as candidate at the end because for a simple reason: he won. I have the feeling that in the Democratic party, they really did everything to screw Sanders and push for Clinton, really everything

From a normal point of view, he's anti-establishment, while his true nature is that he's not really that... In the end, what matters is how people perceive him, and majority of them do perceive him that way. The question that should be asked instead of bashing the Trump voters is: Why did they identify themselves with him ? Why vote for him ? What is the message behind this vote ?

I truly disliked how media in Britain for example bashed Brexit voters, how some people called pensioners are being idiots and useless, but you gotta ask yourself: Why did they listen to people like Boris and Farage for example ?

This is not just a trend in the US/Europe, it's happening everywhere and the roots of the problems is economical to begin with, the majority does not really care if a dictator is ruling or not as long as there's stability and economical prosperity, for decades now the economical prosperity is not happening anymore, GDP continues to grow but the population does not reap the benefits of that, heck inequality is rising and politicians are thinking more about their careers rather than tackling these issues. A growing disdain for a large portion of the population (mostly working class, example in UK where I was a bit shocked calling average people as chavs, white trash, nearly turning them into subhumans. I thought such things can only happen in Morocco and the likes lmao) from the elite (involving media as well)

I feel we're reaching the limits of the system, and soon it will have to change

 

[kkck]

I don't think it is a lie, he's an anti-establishment in the eyes of the population because first of all his speech is raw, second of all never had a political career before and does not come from a family well known for that for example (Bush, Kennedy etc)

Heck, I'd say it just shows how the Republican party handled this better, Trump is not liked and many republicans spoke against him (especially those who represent the establishment), yet they let him run as candidate at the end because for a simple reason: he won. I have the feeling that in the Democratic party, they really did everything to screw Sanders and push for Clinton, really everything

From a normal point of view, he's anti-establishment, while his true nature is that he's not really that... In the end, what matters is how people perceive him, and majority of them do perceive him that way. The question that should be asked instead of bashing the Trump voters is: Why did they identify themselves with him ? Why vote for him ? What is the message behind this vote ?

I truly disliked how media in Britain for example bashed Brexit voters, how some people called pensioners are being idiots and useless, but you gotta ask yourself: Why did they listen to people like Boris and Farage for example ?

This is not just a trend in the US/Europe, it's happening everywhere and the roots of the problems is economical to begin with, the majority does not really care if a dictator is ruling or not as long as there's stability and economical prosperity, for decades now the economical prosperity is not happening anymore, GDP continues to grow but the population does not reap the benefits of that, heck inequality is rising and politicians are thinking more about their careers rather than tackling these issues. A growing disdain for a large portion of the population (mostly working class, example in UK where I was a bit shocked calling average people as chavs, white trash, nearly turning them into subhumans. I thought such things can only happen in Morocco and the likes lmao) from the elite (involving media as well)

I feel we're reaching the limits of the system, and soon it will have to change

Perhaps lie is not the best word to describe trump in that regard. He technically is being honest about it. But there is an element of dishonesty here since trump did in fact try to get establishment support and was shunned.

I get what you mean about people who supported brexit or trump. In the end the reality here is very complex. I think the bigger issue is that the world simply continues to change and the number of people who got left behind is larger than people realized. But that becomes murky when you see the sort of people they are. I don't believe the media was inaccurate when it portrayed trump supporters or brexit supporters as ignorant and xenophobic white trash. It's hard to look at how the brexit and trump campaigns develop and not see that they were fueled by xenophobia. But what was missed was what fueled that xenophobia. Which in this case would appear to be declining quality of life in general, which is what you allude to. At the US you have had companies making historically high amounts of money for years and working class people from red states do not enjoy the benefits of that. Jobs left to china and even if they are returning(read the whole thing to see what I mean) they won't return in the same amount nor and considering the amount of automation they won't be accessible to an uneducated middle aged man. In the end the issue here is that legitimate frustration has been channeled to actual xenophobia.