American Politics

[kkck]

So apparently trump's cabinet picks are completely generic establishment figures. So much for being against them, that did not even last a few days after elected.

 

[GrySun]

It is a fact that after the brexit, violent crime against immigrants rose.
Why would it not happen in the US after such an election?

You don't have a good track record with your predictions, so I say it won't happen because you expect it.
I even remember you talking how the us election can't be compared to brexit and how different they are..

 

[Onyx Darkmatter]

So apparently trump's cabinet picks are completely generic establishment figures. So much for being against them, that did not even last a few days after elected.

It's quite ironic how Trump says he'll protect the LGBT community when he's basically bringing in Anti-LGBT folks into power (not to mention Pence).

 

[kkck]

It's quite ironic how Trump says he'll protect the LGBT community when he's basically bringing in Anti-LGBT folks into power (not to mention Pence).

Well, my post was more about his supporters who were after someone who was not bought and paid by politicians. Of course, we all knew trump is a conman and it was a matter of time until something like this happened but it is still quite something to see how he completely changed course merely days after being elected.

As for the LGBT thing, pretty sure pence is not even the one there that is even remotely the biggest issue. Trump brought breibart and their alt right into the mainstream... I was hoping trump would be enough of a sellout to leave the breitbart guys behind in favor of the establishment but IIRC he needs them for the whole trump TV thing. So those guys (who are basically a collection of all the -ists you can find and then have the nerve to call a bigot anyone who calls them out on their bigotry) are here to stay, at least for a while (probably all of the while). Of course, that applies to every minority at the US.

 

[Aonori]

You don't have a good track record with your predictions, so I say it won't happen because you expect it.
I even remember you talking how the us election can't be compared to brexit and how different they are..

And now Calibrexit is actually trying to become a thing!

--- Double Post Merged, Nov 11, 2016, Original Post Date: Nov 11, 2016 ---

It is a fact that after the brexit, violent crime against immigrants rose.
Why would it not happen in the US after such an election?

If the dems keep rioting there will be violence from the pro trump supporters, America will be divided into two and there will be violence to the immigrants and all other supporters, involved in all of this thats a given also this whole riots are gonna trigger Trump´s endorsements first to be violent at some point if they keep this up, just saying, those are some serious pro-trump guys, they wont respect most of the stuff said by the dems against Trump.

Also one thing, I´m finding alarming here, is how communists are getting inside of these protests, which makes most of them highly susceptible to be turned violent, thank god America isnt a communist country!

 

[Onyx Darkmatter]

Well, my post was more about his supporters who were after someone who was not bought and paid by politicians. Of course, we all knew trump is a conman and it was a matter of time until something like this happened but it is still quite something to see how he completely changed course merely days after being elected.

As for the LGBT thing, pretty sure pence is not even the one there that is even remotely the biggest issue. Trump brought breibart and their alt right into the mainstream... I was hoping trump would be enough of a sellout to leave the breitbart guys behind in favor of the establishment but IIRC he needs them for the whole trump TV thing. So those guys (who are basically a collection of all the -ists you can find and then have the nerve to call a bigot anyone who calls them out on their bigotry) are here to stay, at least for a while (probably all of the while). Of course, that applies to every minority at the US.

Which is what's scary about him. If he doesn't keep his mindset on one thing, then who knows what he's really going to do.

I guess that's what's really going to piss me off about Trump for the next 4 years. This whole "Trump TV" show is only humiliating to the people, which would make me feel ashamed as an American. What a Commander-in-Chief!

 

[Zehahaha]

Lmao about the Obamacare, Trump just said he may not repeal it
A true chameleon indeed, I don't think anyone can tell what this guy's beliefs and thoughts except the closest people to him

 

[kkck]

Lmao about the Obamacare, Trump just said he may not repeal it
A true chameleon indeed, I don't think anyone can tell what this guy's beliefs and thoughts except the closest people to him

http://www.vox.com/2016/7/7/12116706/what-you-learn-from-reading-12-of-donald-trumps-books

I found this article to be useful. Of course, there are many others that do similar analysis and come to relatively similar conclusions. From what I can tell the issue here is not necessarily consistency in his beliefs but rather a lack of specific policy ideas regarding what he believes. So there are a number of issues on which he says a lot but in reality does not have an iota of a clue of what he is talking about and in turn if he actually listens to someone who knows even a little bit he could easily flop. Of course, if he listens to someone who knows as much as he does then he would sign on to it regardless of how asinine it is.... He will likely be anti free trade in general (which is a bit different from a lot of people who are anti tpp because of how pro corporation it is and against consensus from economists on the issue which is overall bad). He will definitely try to do the stuff he has suggested on immigration. As for obamacare, it's a wildcard. He could do anything between discarding obamacare completely, leaving it as is or start a single payer system. Of course, a single payer system is the absolute least likely scenario. Considering the people he is surrounded with the most likely scenario, IMO, is that he will basically systematically cripple obamacare in favor of insurance companies though. And of course, he will absolutely dismantle everything the US has done regarding climate change over the past decade. This is perhaps the thing he will do that will have the greatest long term impact over all of us.... With any luck whatever influence democrats still have will be used to at least halt trump's environmental plans.

 

[Zehahaha]

http://www.vox.com/2016/7/7/12116706/what-you-learn-from-reading-12-of-donald-trumps-books

I found this article to be useful. Of course, there are many others that do similar analysis and come to relatively similar conclusions. From what I can tell the issue here is not necessarily consistency in his beliefs but rather a lack of specific policy ideas regarding what he believes. So there are a number of issues on which he says a lot but in reality does not have an iota of a clue of what he is talking about and in turn if he actually listens to someone who knows even a little bit he could easily flop. Of course, if he listens to someone who knows as much as he does then he would sign on to it regardless of how asinine it is.... He will likely be anti free trade in general (which is a bit different from a lot of people who are anti tpp because of how pro corporation it is and against consensus from economists on the issue which is overall bad). He will definitely try to do the stuff he has suggested on immigration. As for obamacare, it's a wildcard. He could do anything between discarding obamacare completely, leaving it as is or start a single payer system. Of course, a single payer system is the absolute least likely scenario. Considering the people he is surrounded with the most likely scenario, IMO, is that he will basically systematically cripple obamacare in favor of insurance companies though.

I don't think someone who became president, and a successful businessman is that clueless although there's definitely some truth in what you said (will read the article soon)

For the Obamacare, it is possible that he was convinced by Obama on how useful it is, although pretty sure he may amend it just to stop Republicans from nagging him and somehow show his electorate that " he did it "

A lot of the stuff he said won't happen, I doubt Muslims/LGBTQ and minorities in general will suffer, sure some of the Trump electorate may feel powered up and do some acts against minorities, but it should be treated with caution from the media (I've read some case about a muslim girl lying about an attack and what not, this simply makes it harder for those who suffer real discrimination to be believed) especially from SJW outlets

Oh well, truly the era of extremism from both sides really

 

[kkck]

I don't think someone who became president, and a successful businessman is that clueless although there's definitely some truth in what you said (will read the article soon)

For the Obamacare, it is possible that he was convinced by Obama on how useful it is, although pretty sure he may amend it just to stop Republicans from nagging him and somehow show his electorate that " he did it "

A lot of the stuff he said won't happen, I doubt Muslims/LGBTQ and minorities in general will suffer, sure some of the Trump electorate may feel powered up and do some acts against minorities, but it should be treated with caution from the media (I've read some case about a muslim girl lying about an attack and what not, this simply makes it harder for those who suffer real discrimination to be believed) especially from SJW outlets

Oh well, truly the era of extremism from both sides really

"successful businessman" is a bit of a stretch IMO. He has never actually given any facts regarding how much money he has. His tax returns would have proven whether he actually was a billionaire. Frankly, a man as obsessed with himself not showing off his tax returns and proving to the world that he is at least as reach as he claims to be is damning IMO. He has never even beaten an index either (as in, he performs below the market average consistently). And we have every reason to believe he could have avoided taxes for 20 years (because he is so smrt). Most of the fortune or forb assesments of his wealth give him some serious benefit of doubt (in spite of him being a proven liar and phony). According to Deutshe bank he is worth no more than 788 million at the most. Now, he is without a doubt insanely rich. But going from the 200 mil he inherited from his dad to 780 mil in 30-40 years is by no means even remotely close to a successful businessman (again, never beat an index). In that regard he is just better than a rich kid who snorted his trust fund, he has stayed where his dad left him. The sad part here is that even this would perhaps be commendable in some circumstances. But he is trying to sell himself as if he was as good or better than warren buffet or bill gates and that is simply a lie.

Well, there are quite a few republicans that want it gone altogether. He is gonna get a lot of pressure from them at least.

The whole thing with muslims are one I think could absolutely happen. Even if it doesn't, can you imagine the effect of having the US president wanting to register muslims? Even trying and failing that would fuel bigotry in the country.

 

[xi0]

Um, they did accept the results even though Hillary won the popular vote. They're protesting and rioting because they don't want a hate monger in office and are fearful that Trump supporters will attack minorities, LGBTQ, immigrants, and women. there are some incidents out there where that has actually happened.

Yeah, there's some reported incidents and some hearsay (like we've talked about previously) and then there's stuff like this -


I have no problem with people exercising their right to assembly, but I also sort of wonder how many of them actually voted themselves at the same time. You have people on the left saying that the result of this election is "literal fascism", which is just...wow.

 

[kkck]

So.... russia is saying they had ties to trump's campaign? And hinted they had something to do with the wikileaks apparently.... Isn't that grotesquely illegal for trump? So in a day trump turned back on his voters to whom he promised he would clean house with corrupt bought politicians, he backed down from taking down obamacare (though I do think he will systematically cripple) and now dabbles in treason (being so pro russia of course). His presidency has not even started, is there a depth to which he won't sink?

 

[xi0]

So.... russia is saying they had ties to trump's campaign? And hinted they had something to do with the wikileaks apparently.... Isn't that grotesquely illegal for trump? So in a day trump turned back on his voters to whom he promised he would clean house with corrupt bought politicians, he backed down from taking down obamacare (though I do think he will systematically cripple) and now dabbles in treason (being so pro russia of course). His presidency has not even started, is there a depth to which he won't sink?

What's the source there? I mean, this was implied from really early on during the campaign. Wikileaks being backed by Russian interests isn't surprising either, but I'm uncertain of the legality on Trump's part there.

 

[Tournesol]

It is a sorry state of affairs that the only time people really have an interest in the running of their country is directly around election times...
Following that, people happily go back to their lives and forget about it all, until the next time that there is an election/war

I think that's because people don't actually have a way to do anything about politics between elections. They can choose someone who makes decisions on their behalf... the problem is that these people often end up making decisions that the voters did not want.
Tbh I'm quite pissed off at how things are going here in Germany and in democracies in general. Is what we have really "democracy"? It feels more as if we can choose a king, but not reign ourselves as we are supposed to by the name of the government form... I think that a true democracy should involve asking the people directly about major decisions, like they did with the brexit.
Too often do I see the politicians working against most people's interests and more towards corporate interests. Even if people are protesting against something, they ignore it or say in an interview that they "are sorry they couldn't make us realize that it's good for us" as if we're just too dumb to understand.
Bad politics like these can really make you not want to vote anymore, because no matter what you do nothing is gonna change. Oh, I got sidetracked from the subject...
I think most people are too busy with their own lives to spend time protesting, especially if they're just gonna be ignored anyway.

Which is what's scary about him. If he doesn't keep his mindset on one thing, then who knows what he's really going to do.

Here in Europe people seem mostly to be worried about Trump not wanting to participate in international affairs and military operations. While it is good if the US does not start any wars, their forces would be missed if they just withdrew from everywhere. Then again, what do they wanna do hanging out in the US? There's nobody to fight over there. And when it comes to islamists, a big army will not protect you. Intelligence agencies that share information about islamists with each other are more effective. We've managed to prevent some islamists from killing people here in Germany because "international intel" told the police who to look out for.
While I personally think that the EU is strong enough to handle many things by themselves, working together brings better results.

 

[Onyx Darkmatter]

Here in Europe people seem mostly to be worried about Trump not wanting to participate in international affairs and military operations. While it is good if the US does not start any wars, their forces would be missed if they just withdrew from everywhere. Then again, what do they wanna do hanging out in the US? There's nobody to fight over there. And when it comes to islamists, a big army will not protect you. Intelligence agencies that share information about islamists with each other are more effective. We've managed to prevent some islamists from killing people here in Germany because "international intel" told the police who to look out for.
While I personally think that the EU is strong enough to handle many things by themselves, working together brings better results.

History tends to repeat itself it seems.

 

[M3J]

Well, it kinda does - seeing as they believe that trump (the candidate they didn't desire) is likely to 'lie' and 'spread hate'.

Unfortunately, I doubt that many of the people protesting now would have also been out in force had Hillary won - there would be protests, sure, but they would be a different set of people.

Also, I am not sure if you thought I was against the protests... I am not.
If anything, I think people should protest more - not only directly after an election/decision.

It is a sorry state of affairs that the only time people really have an interest in the running of their country is directly around election times...
Following that, people happily go back to their lives and forget about it all, until the next time that there is an election/war

People that are rioting (protests would be peaceful, this is not) are doing so out of fear. They think Trump or his rhetoric will inspire attacks and even bigger bigotry. while it kinda has to do with Trump, it has more to do with what he's said throughout his campaign. I was thinking about Trump denouncing his supporters who commit hate crimes and saying they should all get along, but I don't think the rioters will bother to listen, sadly.

Trump supporters made it clear they'd riot and be violent if Hillary won. Whether that's true or not, though, who knows, but I'm willing to believe it is.

Don't get me wrong, I'm against the riots when there's nothing that'll change. It's just hurting more people.

untrue, based on my FB and all. The amount of conservatives that complained, about Obama and "libtards." <_<

I don't really understand. They fear Trump supporters who won? I mean if Trump lost I'm sure there'd be some ugly sights from Trump supporters, but now?
What do some incidents prove exactly? There are some incidents of unhappy democrats harassing and attacking Trump voters too you know. And I've seen plenty of fake "incidents" of Trump supporter violence.

No, they fear the violence from Trump supporters who would be fueled by the hateful rhetoric he spread during his campaign, from calling illegal immigrants rapists and criminals to banning Muslims and encouraging sexual assault. And I'm pretty sure there'd be just as much riots, if not worse, if Hillary won, if we go by the Trump supporters' threats.

Yes there are, and they're horrible for doing that. No justification at all. Sad! Same with anti-Trumpers lying about attacks, which delegitimizes the actual attacks.

And now Calibrexit is actually trying to become a thing!

--- Double Post Merged, Nov 11, 2016, Original Post Date: Nov 11, 2016 ---

Calexit*

Brexit = British/Britain exit. <_<

Yeah, there's some reported incidents and some hearsay (like we've talked about previously) and then there's stuff like this -


I have no problem with people exercising their right to assembly, but I also sort of wonder how many of them actually voted themselves at the same time. You have people on the left saying that the result of this election is "literal fascism", which is just...wow.

I'm sure a lot of them didn't. I heard Kaepernick didn't which basically invalidates his kneeling and protests.

What's fascism about the result, did they say? All I know is that while Hillary won the popular vote, Trump won the electoral. It was fair and square, or apparently rigged towards Hillary.

 

[xi0]

I'm sure a lot of them didn't. I heard Kaepernick didn't which basically invalidates his kneeling and protests.

Well he has a good point. What's the point of voting when literally everything is racist? ...oh, wait. Fuck. What happens if that's just reductionist rhetoric and doesn't actually mean anything? oops

What's fascism about the result, did they say? All I know is that while Hillary won the popular vote, Trump won the electoral. It was fair and square, or apparently rigged towards Hillary.

The irony in calling someone winning fair and square and calling it "fascism" is just too comical.

 

[M3J]

Hmm, maybe he thinks the democrats are just pandering and don't care about the blacks while Trump is openly "against" the blacks. I'd still prefer the pandering though.

What? Just saying, since I've heard that multiple poll locations somehow didn't let people select Trump. Though, he won because of electoral, not because of popular.

 

[kkck]

What's the source there? I mean, this was implied from really early on during the campaign. Wikileaks being backed by Russian interests isn't surprising either, but I'm uncertain of the legality on Trump's part there.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/11/world/europe/trump-campaign-russia.html?_r=0
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...ection-president-vladimir-putin-a7408866.html
https://www.washingtonpost.com/worl...fb82fa-a73d-11e6-9bd6-184ab22d218e_story.html
http://www.vox.com/world/2016/11/1/13487322/donald-trump-russia-agent-hack

 

[GrySun]

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/11/world/europe/trump-campaign-russia.html?_r=0
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...ection-president-vladimir-putin-a7408866.html
https://www.washingtonpost.com/worl...fb82fa-a73d-11e6-9bd6-184ab22d218e_story.html
http://www.vox.com/world/2016/11/1/13487322/donald-trump-russia-agent-hack

That actually...says nothing at all. How do you conclude anything you said in your previous post?