I think the "correct solution" is obvious, the problem is what is correct and what is feasible might as well be in different universes. What I saw in those videos is about the latter, which makes sense, sure. But when there's disagreements on even the basics of the situation it's difficult for me to care how they feel about feasible solutions. It's just too detached from the humanity of it.
I don't like it either, but it's important to hear I think. If you take into consideration someone like me who isn't as educated on the history as a lot of the people posting here is, it's easy for someone like me to just slip into moralizing; ignoring facts and practicality for what my humanist inclinations would choose.
From more of an outsider's perspective it just felt like it was yet another issue Destiny decided to go against the grain on because he hates Hasan and people like him. He didn't really demonstrate much of an understanding of ethnic conflicts at all in the first place.
As someone with an insider's perspective, I don't think he's faking his position at all. The hatred of Hasan and enjoyment of pointing out crazy lefties defending Hamas isn't done in a disingenuous manner. He doesn't seem to be dismissing facts, only what he views as propaganda. He expects this stuff to come up when he debates Ben Shapiro at the end of the month about Biden's track record and the like.
I think Hasan is reticent to engage with some of these people because of Destiny. Whether that's justified or immature, idk. Still don't have the full picture there. But given how much of twitchpol is molded by the influence of Destiny, it's easy to see why he'd avoid people in his orbit.
I agree, and I'd think it was justified if it was simply because of how much of an asshole Destiny is. I'm confident that's not the case though. I'm positive, without a shadow of a doubt, it's because of his inability to debate him without looking bad. Which is fine because winning a debate doesn't mean you're right... but not everyone sees it that way. When public opinion of you is what keeps you in mansions and luxury cars, you have to avoid anything that could interfere with that. So he can't preach the utopian socialist dream and then fail miserably to defend it against a liberal. He needs these kids to keep believing.
I think it's worth examining why some Democrat voters are saying they would be willing to do something like that to prove a point to the DNC apparatus. Idk, maybe they'd learn something.
I know why they wanna try. They want to force Democrat politicians to fight for the policies we really want. They want to scare them into doing what we want for fear of losing our vote. And they're willing to risk the reproductive rights of women, the protection of LGBTQ people and other minorities, and greater voter suppression, to get it done.
And the most infuriating thing about it is that if they try it and fail, they'll indignantly claim that "Well, we're worse off than we were, but at least we fought for what we believe in." What the fuck kind of reassurance is that for the victims of such a dumb strategy?
This is almost some "Goku giving Cell a Senzu bean" type shit lol. Make sure your enemy can win, and then when they DO win, try to convince the friends you just got killed that it was worth the gamble because now you get to die knowing it was a fair fight. Call me a coward if you want. I'm just careful. And skeptical.
Hamas propaganda, huh.
Certainly, chasing people from their homes, forcifully occupying them, making them live like animals under constant threats/oppression and inforcing a hellish life on them on a daily basis for 75+ years, all while making it seems as if they've the right to defend themselves despite being a murderous colonizer is nothing but the truth.
Not to mention the grouping of islam alongside nazism, antisemittism, etc, which already proves how knowlegeable you are as well as your biasness.
Crazy right, somehow according to that guy it's not a genocide when Palestinians are treated as animals, have no say in this so called "democracy", have to be identified with collared like ID tags, have their one strip of land of theirs carpet bombed and flattened, their food and water supplies not in their own control, the electricity and internet cut off from them which is exactly what happened to Jews during the holocaust and man say I'm not knowledgeable on the topic when you have children from the holocaust survivors coming out saying what is happening to Palestinians are what their parents went through and see Israelis as the modern day Nazis, crazy how Orthodox Jews and even the more liberal Jews have all marched in solidarity for Palestinians and understand their plight and can see Isrealis as Nazis, crazy right like I bet you this guy won't even ask Jewish people near him cuz he'll be proven wrong af
Based on the vocabulary used here I just have to guess you lack profound education on the topic, for which I cannot blame you, since you are not a German and not forced to occupy yourself with it.
There is a clear distinction between murdering your neighbors in a fit of rage from an overescalated hate spiral swelling from a hundred years old conflict with them, and constructing an industry, with bureaucracy to calculate everything to maximum effiency, gathering halls in each city, railroads for fastest deportation, labor camps for temporary storage, gas chambers for annihilating millions at maximum economic effiency, and crematories to get rid of the bodies as if nothing happened.
Mincing words do indeed play a role here and nothing is in defense of the stupid Israeli Government. The words used are a door opener for the very same conspiracy theories that the Nazis coined and used to justify their horrible acts, and endanger the safety of Jews around the world.
I don't know if you know, but it is incredibly uncommon for a Jewish person in Germany to identify as such, synagogues and Jewish schools are under constant police surveillance that otherwise only politicians get due to security threats from antisemites, neonazis, islamists, and even agents of the Iranian Revolutionary Guards. If you identify with jewish symbols on the streets in certain areas, you greatly increase your chance of being physically assaulted. That is the reality.
Antisemitism is a global threat that needs to be fought and not fueled by repeating Hamas propaganda.
Based on vocabulary? What does that even mean? You have no idea what my education on the topic is or even what my background is. You being German has no bearing on any of this, shouldn't be an excuse for being condescending as you are, and it doesn't make you inherently more versed in bigotry either.
Personally, I think your description of what has gone on in Israel is about as reductive as Holocaust comparisons are.
We're talking past each other. Again, my point was that analogies are not the real issue here and they do not exist to minimize the Holocaust or revise history. I do not believe that a comparison between historical events that involved genocide and ethnic-cleansing are "Hamas propaganda".
Crazy right, somehow according to that guy it's not a genocide when Palestinians are treated as animals, have no say in this so called "democracy", have to be identified with collared like ID tags, have their one strip of land of theirs carpet bombed and flattened, their food and water supplies not in their own control, the electricity and internet cut off from them which is exactly what happened to Jews during the holocaust and man say I'm not knowledgeable on the topic when you have children from the holocaust survivors coming out saying what is happening to Palestinians are what their parents went through and see Israelis as the modern day Nazis, crazy how Orthodox Jews and even the more liberal Jews have all marched in solidarity for Palestinians and understand their plight and can see Isrealis as Nazis, crazy right like I bet you this guy won't even ask Jewish people near him cuz he'll be proven wrong af
You're not reading what's been written, man. I don't agree with all of his points but he did not say anything about not calling it a genocide. If he feels that way he hasn't said it. Same with ninjabot. You're working yourself into a tizzy and repeating the same things over and over.
As someone with an insider's perspective, I don't think he's faking his position at all. The hatred of Hasan and enjoyment of pointing out crazy lefties defending Hamas isn't done in a disingenuous manner. He doesn't seem to be dismissing facts, only what he views as propaganda. He expects this stuff to come up when he debates Ben Shapiro at the end of the month about Biden's track record and the like.
I'm not saying it's a fake position. But he's demonstrated it's a position based on a lack of knowledge and he was willing to take it because of his obsession with dunking on leftists. It's his entire brand now that he can't get away with being an edgelord outside of his circle.
I agree, and I'd think it was justified if it was simply because of how much of an asshole Destiny is. I'm confident that's not the case though. I'm positive, without a shadow of a doubt, it's because of his inability to debate him without looking bad. Which is fine because winning a debate doesn't mean you're right... but not everyone sees it that way. When public opinion of you is what keeps you in mansions and luxury cars, you have to avoid anything that could interfere with that. So he can't preach the utopian socialist dream and then fail miserably to defend it against a liberal. He needs these kids to keep believing.
My question is why does the relationship between them come down to who would win a debate? I'm not saying Hasan isn't an idiot and I don't recall seeing him as someone who's positioning himself as a great thinker and debate champion. What would Destiny think he's doing by outmaneuvering him in a debate?
I know you bring up public opinion so it might not be how you feel, but I think the whole thing with his house and car is pretty disingenuous and I've always found it weird to harp on if you're not an idiotic red-pilled type or something. Him spending money on nice things doesn't really run contra to his ideals IMO. It's not like he makes money via exploitation of the working class or something idk.
I know why they wanna try. They want to force Democrat politicians to fight for the policies we really want. They want to scare them into doing what we want for fear of losing our vote. And they're willing to risk the reproductive rights of women, the protection of LGBTQ people and other minorities, and greater voter suppression, to get it done.
And the most infuriating thing about it is that if they try it and fail, they'll indignantly claim that "Well, we're worse off than we were, but at least we fought for what we believe in." What the fuck kind of reassurance is that for the victims of such a dumb strategy?
This is almost some "Goku giving Cell a Senzu bean" type shit lol. Make sure your enemy can win, and then when they DO win, try to convince the friends you just got killed that it was worth the gamble because now you get to die knowing it was a fair fight. Call me a coward if you want. I'm just careful. And skeptical.
Well, it remains to be seen how many would follow through with it, but I think leveraging your vote, the only thing you have, to stop death and destruction is a gamble most would make. What other action do people have other than being a nuisance by protesting or jamming phones lines?
I don't disagree with your point but I guess I can understand why people are doing it. I feel like I said that before but I think it's perfectly reasonable to detest the people you find yourself being forced to vote for and when you're confronted with the ramifications of supporting them on a practically hourly basis it feels justifiable to throw incrementalism out of the window.
What a letter from Biden’s field staff and organizers says about how Democrats see the Israel-Hamas war.
www.vox.com
It’s worth keeping in mind that a Trump presidency would also enable Israel, but there are indications that the situation would likely be worse. As ever, his comments with respect to this war are all over the place. He promised Hamas’s October 7 victims would be avenged “even beyond what you’re thinking about,” criticized Israel’s Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu on seemingly false grounds, and said he would have helped Israel make peace with Iran had he been reelected in 2020. Most alarmingly, he said he would restore and expand his Muslim migration ban to restrict Palestinian refugees from Gaza from entering the US.
I would implore you to ask yourself one last time whether keeping Biden in office is better for Palestinians than potentially Trump making it into office.
As for him doing more, what do you think he can do that doesn't have drastic political repercussions that will last generations? Do you want him to strongarm Israel into a ceasefire? The only way I see of fixing this, with my little bit of understanding of the situation, the ONLY THING, is a 2 state solution where neither Israel or Palestine are in control, and Hamas ceases to exist. Who should be in control? I dunno who has the authority to, but it has to be someone without skin in the game.
Indications, but no proof it'd be worse and not the same as it is now. Trump would probably try to help Palestinians a bit more than Biden has just for popularity's sake or to look good, if anything. But while he'd likely have tried to do all of that, we don't know what would have happened. Would Dems fight hard and make sure he failed? Or would they let him succeed in some things? I may be against Trump presidency, but given Biden's broken promises and enabling of genocide, I'm still not sure if Biden that much better.
I mean, Palestinians took in Jews and Zionists, but they got kicked out and their homes taken over, like Mohamed Hadid. I don't think the West will ever strongarm Israel into anything as they are Israel's lapdogs. Israel could commit the most horrible genocide of so many different countries in the Middle East, and as long as the targets are Muslims, the leaders will not do anything because Israel serves in the interest of the West. Biden himself has said this, that if Israel did not exist then USA would have had to invent one to protect her interests in the Middle East.
There's a reason why the West is censoring anything anti-Israel, while letting Islamophobic or racist things slide by.
2 state solution plus dead Hamas. That's the answer.
No matter how murderous the actions of the Israeli government and army are, I would kindly ask the moderators to condemn such statements.
They are just factually plain wrong. The reason why the Holocaust is condemned as a historically unique crime against humanity lies in the construction of an annihilation industry. The Nazis slaughtered humans like cattle in a slaughterhouse.
There is no such thing in the state of Israel, and what the Israeli government is doing, dropping bombs on people unable to escape, dropping bombs on hospitals, etc, those are war crimes and not industrial annihilation.
Any ideas trying to draw parralels between the Nazis and the state of Israel only supports right-wing politicians in Israel, whom you basically give a freepass for any of their actions - they will just say "look the Antisemites are everywhere and we continue to do as we please". And considering how bogus the Holocaust comparisons are, and what danger such accusations spell for Jews outside of Israel, here in Germany for example, they sort of have point here.
The open air prison in Gaza is a concentration camp, where Israel is murdering Gazans by carpet bombing them and using white phosphorus to cause most amount of pain and damage. Israel is basically acting like the Nazis were, to the point that Jews who support Palestine are beaten up and arrested. Israel is literally slaughtering Palestinians and aren't hiding that anymore or lying about it like they were few weeks ago.
Asking moderators to condemn statements is silly and stupid. If you don't agree with what someone is saying, then use the report button. Otherwise why would mods condemn anything here?
Holocaust comparisons are mostly accurate for those who aren't looking at this with bias.
I am not reducing anything and am not a supporter of the actions of the Israeli Government.
These analogies are exactly the problem as they open doors for violence against Jews around the world, and in any case are a total misattribution.
The way the some people respond here is pretty much the original tone of Hamas propaganda, an organization that of course does propaganda for their cause that typically does not involve a two state solution but a continuation of this madness.
What I actually hope is that the recent ressurgance of Israel criticism in the US actually leads to the US Governemnt getting their asses up fearing for voters in the next election and finding a political solution that can lead to an independent state of Palestine in the long run. Netanyahu is a goner, he won't stay that's impossible to think of now.
No, lol wtf dude. You want a link with tickets to visit a concentration camp? Maybe I will find an german NGO..or GO to pay for you. You don't know what you are talking about lol.
What censoring? The German ÖR (tax payed) media are pretty onesided but even here I can inform myself about anything when going through the digital print media, that is not even counting in the international internet.
Dunno why you keep bringing up Germany, learn what the meaning of concentration camp is. Japanese and Japanese Americans were thrown in concentration camps in USA, just as Gazans are thrown in concentration camps where even if Israel says it's okay for them to evacuate, they still get bombed.
People who speak up for Palestine lose their jobs, their scholarships, get shadow banned on social media, and etc. There's intense amount of censoring going on to the point that US politicians even passed an anti-BDS legislation. If you aren't aware of the govt censoring things that are critical of Israel, then you have no right to criticize others for "lacking profound education" or whatever you said to xi0.
Nazis are bigoted murderers, just as Zionists are.
Dunno why you keep bringing up Germany, learn what the meaning of concentration camp is. Japanese and Japanese Americans were thrown in concentration camps in USA, just as Gazans are thrown in concentration camps where even if Israel says it's okay for them to evacuate, they still get bombed.
No. Those were internenment camps. Concentration camps is a term specific to the annihilatory camps of the NS regime. If you have been using it universally, you have been using it wrong.
I bring up Germany, because this is my history and historic responsibility, state reason even, and not yours. For the same reason that you don't want your racist slaver terms used out of the context defined by your history, you should refrain from using Nazi terms outside the context defined by mine.
Okay, I don't care about what you think it's specific to, you're not the authority. Palestinians are stuck in a concentration camp, where Israel is trying to execute them. That's a fact.
I will not refrain just because I'm not a German. Stop trying to police and gatekeep terms, it's annoying and unnecessary.
Okay, I don't care about what you think it's specific to, you're not the authority. Palestinians are stuck in a concentration camp, where Israel is trying to execute them. That's a fact.
I will not refrain just because I'm not a German. Stop trying to police and gatekeep terms, it's annoying and unnecessary.
So you can just say a certain word since etymologically it just means black?
This is some primary example of the dickishness that Americans are so often accused of, that you just cannot accept others people's history and claim sovereignity on interpretation for everything.
What you are doing here is so insensitive, you have to stop!
Okay, I don't care about what you think it's specific to, you're not the authority. Palestinians are stuck in a concentration camp, where Israel is trying to execute them. That's a fact.
I will not refrain just because I'm not a German. Stop trying to police and gatekeep terms, it's annoying and unnecessary.
Same, very odd that people who studied the holocaust such as many Jewish Scholars are able to tell its a concentration camp, and numerous historians both who studied the Palestinian History also call it a concentration camp along with many humanitarian works call this a concentration camp and point to the Geneva Convention when people want to say its not.
https://normanfinkelstein.substack.com/p/video-recording-and-transcript-special?r=27wbno > Behold Norman Finkelstein born from parents who were survivors from the holocaust lived at Warsaw and Auschwitz who went on to become a historian that studied the history, his parents went through and effectively calls what Palestinians in Gaza go through, a concentration camp with many historians who studied the events of the holocaust backing his claim
> Here, Norman again exposing lies from a Zionist that went onto the Joe Rogan show and just like any Zionist are and act refusing to even consider Palestinians humans and only see them as animals, just as the Nazis did with Jews.
So you can just say a certain word since etymologically it just means black?
This is some primary example of the dickishness that Americans are so often accused of, that you just cannot accept others people's history and claim sovereignity on interpretation for everything.
What you are doing here is so insensitive, you have to stop!
You make absolutely no sense whatsoever. You're also the first German I've heard of whining about "concentration camp" being used to describe an actual concentration camp. No one has a right or exclusivity to that word, and if they do, show me where. I want proof that only Germans can use the phrase given they weren't the only one who set up concentration camps.
lol no it's not. You have little to no knowledge on history yourself, you shouldn't be attacking someone else's knowledge. Did you know Russia had concentration camps too? Or are you going to deny what people with actual knowledge are saying just so you can keep "concentration camp" exclusive for Germans? Nothing you say makes sense, especially when it comes to Palestine's genocide at Israel's hands.
For example, bringing up LGBT+ rights amongst Palestine, as if the West isn't homophobic either.
You make absolutely no sense whatsoever. You're also the first German I've heard of whining about "concentration camp" being used to describe an actual concentration camp. No one has a right or exclusivity to that word, and if they do, show me where. I want proof that only Germans can use the phrase given they weren't the only one who set up concentration camps.
Then that speaks miles for what people you've been occupying yourself with. What you are saying is criminal in Germany.
And any idea that the Gaza strip is a "concentration camp" is completely bananas.
lol no it's not. You have little to no knowledge on history yourself, you shouldn't be attacking someone else's knowledge. Did you know Russia had concentration camps too? Or are you going to deny what people with actual knowledge are saying just so you can keep "concentration camp" exclusive for Germans?
There is a reason why certain terms are used in the way they are, that I already thoroughly explained. The way you argue and answer is 100% in line with common tactics and rhetorics used by Neonazis.
The concentration camp label is due to Palestinians not being able to leave and return. But it's use in this case is probably a conflation of it and internment camps.
The concentration camp label is due to Palestinians not being able to leave and return. But it's use in this case is probably a conflation of it and internment camps.
+ oppressive mentoring + planned silenced mass genocides every now and then + limited access to water, food and daily needs +......
It's a fully fledged concentration camp, not just a prison. Their life is hell, hence's why they have nothing to lose.
+ oppressive mentoring + planned silenced mass genocides every now and then + limited access to water, food and daily needs +......
It's a fully fledged concentration camp, not just a prison. Their life is hell, hence's why they have nothing to lose.
Yep, its not even a democracy cuz Jewish, Muslim, Christian, even Atheist Palestinians are even allowed to partake in "this so called" democracy. Like it's so amazing people are so ready to defend a ethnic cleansing colonizer state, it's a very simple black and white picture but no one wants to admit that Israel is the problem here.
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---
> Not for the weak mind but rmb when Israel said that Hamas beheaded 40 babies then posted a picture which was later confirmed to be an AI generated image, guess what this is what Isreal is doing, so don't fucking say Hamas is the bad guys in this situation when Israel is commiting acts of genofuckingcide. Don't label Palestinians who ARE forced to fight back against 75+ on going years of a colonizer barbarian animals, the problem, fuck anyone who even remotely defends Israel now. And it aint even Hamas pushing the antisemitism agenda, that's the bloody fucking Israel, US, Canada, UK, Germany and many other countries pushing the agenda.
Indications, but no proof it'd be worse and not the same as it is now. Trump would probably try to help Palestinians a bit more than Biden has just for popularity's sake or to look good, if anything. But while he'd likely have tried to do all of that, we don't know what would have happened. Would Dems fight hard and make sure he failed? Or would they let him succeed in some things? I may be against Trump presidency, but given Biden's broken promises and enabling of genocide, I'm still not sure if Biden that much better.
These motherfuckers killed Roe v. Wade without even having the presidency and that's not indication that things would be worse if they had the white house?
Also, broken promises aren't necessarily broken if you have a cadre of people trying their best to make you fail at keeping your promises. Intent matters.
I mean, Palestinians took in Jews and Zionists, but they got kicked out and their homes taken over, like Mohamed Hadid. I don't think the West will ever strongarm Israel into anything as they are Israel's lapdogs. Israel could commit the most horrible genocide of so many different countries in the Middle East, and as long as the targets are Muslims, the leaders will not do anything because Israel serves in the interest of the West. Biden himself has said this, that if Israel did not exist then USA would have had to invent one to protect her interests in the Middle East.
That's why the only possible answer is a 2 state solution where neither Israel nor Palestine are the determining authority there, along with the purging of Hamas from the planet. You can't trust either side to not pursue the most heinous acts of violence against each other, and Hamas are terrorists. Yes the IDF has done fucked up shit, but they're not Hamas, and have the benefit of social and optics protections Hamas will never, ever have thanks to not being Muslim. It's not a fair fight. It's super not. And it won't be. America isn't gonna have a crisis of faith and "switch sides" all of a sudden either.
There's a reason why the West is censoring anything anti-Israel, while letting Islamophobic or racist things slide by.
Then what is? And what does Israel lying have to do with it? I have said multiple times they can't be trusted. The UN can stop wars and pursue diplomacy, and as far as I know it isn't limited to nations that are apart of the UN. Why can't the UN step in and break things up? Why shouldn't they?
They're using Hamas as scapegoat to justify genocide.
These motherfuckers killed Roe v. Wade without even having the presidency and that's not indication that things would be worse if they had the white house?
Also, broken promises aren't necessarily broken if you have a cadre of people trying their best to make you fail at keeping your promises. Intent matters.
That's why the only possible answer is a 2 state solution where neither Israel nor Palestine are the determining authority there, along with the purging of Hamas from the planet. You can't trust either side to not pursue the most heinous acts of violence against each other, and Hamas are terrorists. Yes the IDF has done fucked up shit, but they're not Hamas, and have the benefit of social and optics protections Hamas will never, ever have thanks to not being Muslim. It's not a fair fight. It's super not. And it won't be. America isn't gonna have a crisis of faith and "switch sides" all of a sudden either.
Sure. It sucks. But I'm more concerned with what's best in the long run rather than what's fair or not right now.
Then what is? And what does Israel lying have to do with it? I have said multiple times they can't be trusted. The UN can stop wars and pursue diplomacy, and as far as I know it isn't limited to nations that are apart of the UN. Why can't the UN step in and break things up? Why shouldn't they?
So remove the scapegoat. They're not protecting anyone anyway, and they won't need civilian human shields if they're all dead.
Here we go again once more with the ridiculous mind boggling crazy, just admit it you do not give a shit about Jewish, Muslim, Christians, Atheist Palestinians cuz here you are acting as if Hamas is the vile creature here and ignoring that Hamas is a creation of the ON GOING ACTIONS OF A FUCKING ZIONIST REGIME APARTHEID STATE WHERE IN ZIONISM, THEY DO NOT ACCEPT THE TWO STATE SOLUTION, go fucking read the founding fathers of Zionism's ideals, like holy fuck, I am actually done here with you, you are a Zionist supporter and nothing you say will change that otherwise, you legit want an entire race eradicted, displaced, removed from history just like Israel wants, just like this disgusting Zionist IDF goons.
For which Egypt has a hand in as well.
And in any case it is not what defines a concentration camp.
It is a completely uneducated take that inherently delegitimates any opinion and immediately brandmarks it as closed off Nazi propaganda. That's how it appears to people taught to identify such in schools and public media.
If you Americans haven't learned about the sensitivity of the topic, you have to NOW.
I find it more than scary what people reveal here about themselves.
Dunno if everyone has seen this episode or not but here you go. Oliver is getting shit from the left for calling it an Israel vs Hamas war but other than that it seems super reasonable.
