American Politics

[kannazuki]

Nobody is "allowing" ISIS to do anything. Literally every single government in the Middle East is opposed to them and many (if not all) are fighting ISIS in some way, regardless of whether they are allies of the US or not. You might be surprised to know Hamas and Hezbollah have sent troops in on the ground who are losing their lives to fight ISIS. Largely Shia Iran has sent troops to liberate Iraqi Sunnis, among others. Meanwhile Israel apparently along with the US is funding and providing logistics support to Al Qaeda members in Syria to fight ISIS (no seriously, I am not joking or making that up, I wish I was). If nations in other parts of the world got directly involved, this could pretty much qualify as WWIII imo.

ISIS is not simply a terrorist group. They're a combination cult and organized crime racket. People who haven't looked into this too deeply think it's just oil that funds them but actually they get massive amounts of money from extortion/illegal "taxes" and outright theft (including hijacking wages meant for Iraqis officials, and the raiding of priceless cultural and historical artifacts that they sell "licenses" for thieves to go loot and sell to crooked or clueless art dealers in the West). The quickest and most effective ways to block their proliferation is to (1) dry up their revenues, and (2) commit cash to anti-radicalization measures (instead of letting their propaganda essentially go unchallenged), which have already been shown to be an effective preventative tool in Europe. It's not like the people they recruit are joining because they think "Yeah, I want to be part of an evil crime syndicate and religious cult!" They're getting sold a bill of goods about becoming a "hero" and "helping" people.

 

[M3J]

I personally would rather funding for space stuff go to private companies until we have a budget surplus. I was just bringing that up earlier as Obama's administration is inhibiting US from being at the forefront of the Space Race of the modern times. I dont understand how a manned mission to other places can happen in the timeframe he desires with the funding situation at hand (especially with money flowing out to support healthcare that people dont want or care about).

So you prefer the government spends money on wars and space over healthcare for people?

Bush didnt do any damage, he had my ideal for what the government and military ought to be. No one can predict how long a war can be and no one can predict how long it can be to try to build a country from the brink of destruction and change its entire government and train people. Enduring freedom while crushing evil terrorists is the best sstrategy for protecting american interests away and abroad. Look at how many new people come from overseas and back here to do terrorist attacks here and the news of ones that are barely stopped or halted due to perfect mistakes happening.

He did plenty of damage, actually. Got us in a war against a country where apparently there was no proof of weapon of mass destruction. Economy started tanking during his run as well. Best way to protect American interests is to not interfere in other countries' matter. We have been doing that for decades, and the results have been bad. If we didn't butt in, I doubt we'd be targeted. At least, not to this degree. Nor would our terrorist enemies be trained or have the equipment that they do, from us anyway.

no thanks, I'd rather not fund the military and send them to their deaths or give enemies better weapons to steal from us.


Interestingly, I've seen Bush be criticized far more by people not in America, while Obama has been defended or praised. Americans criticized him during his run too, but for some odd reason Republicans are saying his run wasn't bad, or he didn't do that much damage while attacking Obama. Hmm.

You win the internet. You won't believe how many people still to this DAY in the south hate obama for making gay marriage a thing. When it was a supreme court Decision. I know Obama openly endorsed it, but there are so many angry conservative families against it. I visited my Grandmother who is old fashion, and went to church with her. The amount of hate they had for Obama 'single handedly' changing the definition of marriage is terrifying.

And if you try to explain to them that the country is almost 50/50 on the issue and it was a supreme court thing, then you're just being a know it all.

Well, there are reasons why I don't like the South or have any respect for it. This is one of them. And having debated with few conservatives and Republicans on FB, I have no respect for them at all either. Funny thing is, those conservatives made me go from neutral/don't care to "fuck the conservatives, go liberals!" although I'm not a liberal.

Trump has no game plan at all. Common people love him because he is a common person. One with money, and a below average intelligence who says offensive things about US allies in passing. If he becomes our president I'm nearly 90% sure that foreign policy would belly up because in the paraphrased words of our best cannidate 2015:

Best way to deal with Mexican immigrants is to build a great wall at the border... *sigh*

-Attack on Titan music plays-

People love Trump more because he says things without caring about political correctness. People hate the idea of being politically correct, so they appreciate a candidate who's not afraid to offend people. If not for sayin "EFF YOU!" to political correctness, I doubt Trump would be this popular.

Just because people have weapons doesnt mean they can be successful. Countries and leaders are allowing ISIS and other terrorist groups to have safe haven in their countries, while those countries, due to Obama's over reliance of drones and lack of having soldiers on foot in those places and necessary support installations, dont allow much US forces into their countries to eliminate terrorists.

Why would you let another countries sovereignty continue to exist when it threatens your own citizens safety? That seems like bad leadership.

I highly doubt the countries and leaders are allowing ISIS and other terrorist groups to have a safe haven, or that most of them even consider ISIS Muslims. Pretty hard to fight terrorists though, when they're all too happy to sacrifice themselves to take out tons of people, or even as little as one person. I also don't blame Obama for using drones given the danger that soldiers face.

 

[Machi-tan]

Honestly American politics is so charged that there is no way to win. Obama over all has been a productive president, but in the eyes of an average joe 'he sucks' because he never did x, y, and z. Then you try to explain to them, well X he needed support from people who weren't members of his party in Congress... and they didn't give it to him so they are just as much at fault?

'Nope, he sucks'

Okay... well Y, he couldn't get done because X was a subsection of Y and if X didn't go through Y wouldn't be a stable acting bill, so it goes back to X not being approved because of Congress.

'Nope, he should've gotten around it'

... I see.

'Plus he's infridging on my rights as a Christian American'

Really? How so? I think i missed that.

'By forcing my religious term of marriage to apply to those i don't condon'

*Rubs temples*

Having a political conversation with a Conservative Christian in the south is like rock climbing with no gear. It seems like it'd be intense... but doable. And when looking up you think you have a path to lead you to victory. Then once you get half way and look back, you realize how far this actually was, and since you have no gear... you're stuck either hammering it all the way up while you're losing strength, or resign yourself to falling to your [metaphorical] death.

 

[SharkBait]

So you prefer the government spends money on wars and space over healthcare for people?


I highly doubt the countries and leaders are allowing ISIS and other terrorist groups to have a safe haven, or that most of them even consider ISIS Muslims. Pretty hard to fight terrorists though, when they're all too happy to sacrifice themselves to take out tons of people, or even as little as one person. I also don't blame Obama for using drones given the danger that soldiers face.

I dont understand what was wrong with the health system as it was before. People are free agents that deserve to make decisions of their own volition. Being punished and penalized via paying a tax for not opting to have healthcare is terrible, as is forcing people to enroll in a state sponsored plan. The biggest crime was that I have to pay more for healthcare, that was unfair.

Drones are expensive.

 

[kkck]

What are the actual numbers on obamacare? Most of what I find online seems to suggest obamacare has not actually made health care more expensive, at least for the vast majority of the population, however I am not entirely sure of what a reliable source would be in this case.

 

[Drmke]

Obamacare is a bad plan because Republicans got the public option removed. Without that as an alternative, people are now simply forced to pay for insurance they already couldn't afford.

On the ridiculous assertion that there are "terrorist countries" or that the United States and the West had any right moral or otherwise to completely destroy and destabilize most of the Middle East and North Africa while stoking ethnic and religious tensions that had been fairly tame for decades is laughable at best and horrible at worst. 30 years (a very conservative estimate mind you) of direct intervention has obliterated any semblance of civil society and driven people insane. It was done for profit; imperial warfare against those we knew could never properly fight back.

Contrary to popular belief, they didn't do it to themselves (unless you count resisting US economic demands as their fault). You can't blame Islam or dictators on this. Though funny side note, we propped up every dictator (Saddam, Kadahffi, Mubarak, etc.) And helped Sadia Arabia forcefully spread (FDR in 40s) their brand of Islam (Wahabism I believe?) that can be directly traced to modern Islamist ideology. Of course you can also consider how Europe destroyed the Ottoman Empire then carved the region up to fit their needs as well.

 

[M3J]

I dont understand what was wrong with the health system as it was before. People are free agents that deserve to make decisions of their own volition. Being punished and penalized via paying a tax for not opting to have healthcare is terrible, as is forcing people to enroll in a state sponsored plan. The biggest crime was that I have to pay more for healthcare, that was unfair.

Drones are expensive.

I am not a fan of being forced to pay for insurance either, but the idea behind Affordable Health Care was to make sure everyone had insurance in case of emergency. It'd be cheaper to pay set amount per month for insurance rather than a high bill for ER. I'm pretty sure the Republicans fucked things up and made the plan worse just because it's Obama, otherwise I'm sure if it was a white person or even a Republican who did the same thing OBama did, we'd see a better healthcare system and everything else.

Obamacare is a bad plan because Republicans got the public option removed. Without that as an alternative, people are now simply forced to pay for insurance they already couldn't afford.

As much as I would like to blame Republicans, Democrats also had a hand in making the country worse and impeding a lot of Obama's plans. Too bad they didn't succeed with illegal immigrants. I think Obama is a humane president, but I can't get behind the thought of legalizing people that were in the country illegally.

Contrary to popular belief, they didn't do it to themselves (unless you count resisting US economic demands as their fault). You can't blame Islam or dictators in this. Though funny side note, we propped every dictator (Saddam, Kadahffi, Mubarak, etc.) And helped Sadia Arabia forcefully spread (FDR in 40s) their brand of Islam (Wahabism I believe?) that can be directly traced to modern Islamist ideology. If course can also consider how Europe destroyed the Ottoman Empire then carved the region up to fit their needs as well.

But don't you wanna fund the military and allow us to train more potential enemies and put deadlier weapons in their hands?! Screw whatever problems we have in our own country, we must Manifest Destiny the world, if not Middle East!


I'm voting for Bernie regardless, and I think people should as well. I mean, Trump is a dumbass, Cruz was AGAINST net neutrality and for some dumbass reason called it the Obamacare of internet, and the Bushes suck as presidents. I also don't trust Clinton, given few things. Bernie actually gave attention to BLM and hired one representative to help him whereas Trump threatened BLM who would have protested.

 

[SharkBait]

I'm voting for Bernie regardless, and I think people should as well. I mean, Trump is a dumbass, Cruz was AGAINST net neutrality and for some dumbass reason called it the Obamacare of internet, and the Bushes suck as presidents. I also don't trust Clinton, given few things. Bernie actually gave attention to BLM and hired one representative to help him whereas Trump threatened BLM who would have protested.

Yes thankfully my Rubio evaded your anger ^_^.

 

[Drmke]

Rubio is as much as a corporate stooge as one can get. He can't even get his own backstory straight (lied about his family fleeing Cuba as the revolution happened just to seem more capitalist or something) and he literally sticks to talking points exclusively during debates, interviews, and speeches. Anyone remember when he drank that glass of water in the middle of the Republican State of the Union response? Funny stuff. VP material unfortunately because he is such a blank canvas (also Hispanic in a super anti-immigrant party) but he will not get the nomination.

 

[SharkBait]

See another example of wasteful Obama Administration spending and departments that need slashed budgets.

 

[xi0]

What does that have to do with the election? Obama isn't running.

And please, don't act like wastefulness is unique to the current administration.

 

[SharkBait]

What does that have to do with the election? Obama isn't running.

And please, don't act like wastefulness is unique to the current administration.

With two Obama administration members running (Mr. Biden) and Ms Clinton, candidates are likely to emnbrace Obama Administration money wasting tactics.

 

[xi0]

With two Obama administration members running (Mr. Biden) and Ms Clinton, candidates are likely to emnbrace Obama Administration money wasting tactics.

How is money-wasting a tactic? A tactic for what?

Obama hasn't had much success reducing the deficit, but Bush was the one that created it in the first place. Clinton left office with a surplus.

 

[M3J]

See another example of wasteful Obama Administration spending and departments that need slashed budgets.

Still not as bad as getting us in a war and spending tons of money on military crap and defense and making the deficit even bigger.

and lolFoxNews

How is money-wasting a tactic? A tactic for what?

Obama hasn't had much success reducing the deficit, but Bush was the one that created it in the first place. Clinton left office with a surplus.

Bush continued the deficit that started decades ago. I can't entirely blame Obama when he's filled with republicans and democrats that go against anything he says, no matter how beneficial it is to the country or people. Bush fucks up the economy, and Obama gets blamed for it, although he didn't help much either.

 

[xi0]

Bush continued the deficit that started decades ago. I can't entirely blame Obama when he's filled with republicans and democrats that go against anything he says, no matter how beneficial it is to the country or people. Bush fucks up the economy, and Obama gets blamed for it, although he didn't help much either.

What? No. During his terms in office, Clinton reversed the deficit that had existed since 1990, but the first budget George W. Bush ever signed resulted in the surplus being completely erased, mostly due to his tax cuts, and it has only increased since then.

 

[M3J]

Wasn't the deficit at its highest during World War II? http://www.usgovernmentspending.com/debt_deficit_history

I'm just saying that Bush made the deficit worse when Clinton actually reduced it.

 

[Drmke]

Let's be honest though, the Clinton surplus was mostly an economic bubble that popped hard in 2008 and will probably pop again in the near future. The budget deficit is basically irrelevant to the average life of most Americans. The trend of stagnating wages continued unaltered through Nixon, Ford, Carter, Reagan, Bush, Clinton, Bush, and now Obama. Neither party even comes close to seriously addressing any solution to our severe economic problems.

Obviously however, Bush Jr. exacerbated the inevitable economic crisis and deserves a shit ton of blame.

 

[kannazuki]

I'll be looking forward to the details on that wasteful EPA spending. In the meantime...

The Long, Expensive History of Defense Rip-Offs
A timeline of more than 230 years of military waste, from gouging George Washington to ditching $7 billion worth of stuff Afghanistan.
—By Eric Wuestewald
| Wed Dec. 18, 2013 7:00 AM EST

It didn't start with the F-35 or even the $640 toilet seat. Military overruns and rip-offs have a long (and expensive) history, starting in the earliest days of the republic:

http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2013/12/defense-military-waste-cost-timeline

 

[SharkBait]

Do democrat candidates have a solution for mass shootings in America?

 

[xi0]

Do democrat candidates have a solution for mass shootings in America?

Plenty of Democrats are for stricter gun control. I think the better question is if Republicans have a solution...I mean, aside from praying for the families whenever one happens.