American Politics

kkck

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Would you say she's less untrustworthy than the Donald?
Of course not. Donald stick to his lies even on things he has been proven beyond doubt to be lying about. He has virtually no positions of his own... hillary has several things worth questioning but in the end nothing nearly as bad as trump.
 

M3J

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Yeah I did, I definitely acknowledge that. My point in bringing this example up is that it does exist in the way that political correctness as a term was originally intended to mean, that's all. Has nothing to do with Trump or the Right or however they choose to bastardize the concept.


Yeah but it'd have to be rooted in some reality to be a valid comparison IMO. For us, there's nothing controversial about Canadians or Italians as a group. There's nothing that people feel needs to be addressed/discussed. Not that I'm aware of in present times anyways.


Go further in what way? So then you're okay with the President pandering if it's something you agree with or don't mind. Fair enough.


What does any sort of brotherhood have to do with anything? I don't know, just seems like the type of people that don't understand the nuance of the issue at all, and that him speaking on the police going too far in many cases is admonishing the police in general. I never took that from anything he's said though IIRC.
I'm not a fan of political correctness myself, to be honest. I don't see the ruckus over saying Merry Christmas and hate the fact that Happy Holidays is used instead.

Apparently many Americans think Canadians are pussies for being so friendly and not getting into the World Wars to help us out. *shrugs* But yeah, I guess not a good comparison.

Not really. I support the president not saying anything offensive or trying to keep peace without taking sides.

Firefighters probably defend the police and look past a lot of them abusing powers and killing people because of brotherhood, which also plays a part in them not understanding the issue/s. Hmm, I bet Trump or Cruz would just praise the police and make the victims look like bad people, while Hillary wouldn't even care.
 

xi0

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I'm not a fan of political correctness myself, to be honest. I don't see the ruckus over saying Merry Christmas and hate the fact that Happy Holidays is used instead.
That's not really what political correctness is intended for. Conservatives just like to bring it up to further their narrative about Christianity being under attack or whatever keeps old grannies awake at night. But yeah, telling someone Merry Christmas isn't offending or disadvantaging anyone really.

Not really. I support the president not saying anything offensive or trying to keep peace without taking sides.
Pandering isn't offensive? Avoiding stating something that's really rings false is somehow taking a side? I understand your concern, but I hope you notice the failures in logic here?

I guess emotions aren't very logical, especially when it comes to people and their faith. I guess it's inconvenient...but I mean, I'd rather deal with reality than something invented in order to prevent people from taking offense.
 

GrySun

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Interesting that people are talking about political correctness and nobody brought up the neighbors of the San Bernardino shooters? That's a very great example of the issue actually.

I guess we're supposed to ignore him being the most famous face of the Obama birther movement as well?
...so what exactly does that have to do with trust or his stances? Weren't there all sorts of conspiracy theories about Obama years before Trump voiced himself on that? And that's certainly not the first or only conspiracy theory he involved himself with. And didn't that conspiracy theory end quite good? Obama giving proof, which is enough to please most of the people who doubted him. Only interesting is why it took him some years to do much about it but oh well.

Of course not.
Judging from the rest of your response, your actual answer isn't "of course not" as that would be saying she is less untrustworthy than Trump, but instead "yes", although admittedly my question was confusingly put.

Donald stick to his lies even on things he has been proven beyond doubt to be lying about. He has virtually no positions of his own...
Examples please? And you can literally say the very same thing for Hillary.

hillary has several things worth questioning but in the end nothing nearly as bad as trump.
Really? What did he do that's so much worse than what she did? Remember we're talking about trustworthiness. Personally I find it a lot more alerting that someone like Hillary who was involved in politics most of her life is so unstable as she is. She's a different person depending on the number of the year.
 

kkck

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Examples please? And you can literally say the very same thing for Hillary.

Really? What did he do that's so much worse than what she did? Remember we're talking about trustworthiness. Personally I find it a lot more alerting that someone like Hillary who was involved in politics most of her life is so unstable as she is. She's a different person depending on the number of the year.
Well, here is an example. With humor!

And he does this with exactly everything... I am pretty sure that hillary does not lie like this lol. Even if she does lie like this, clearly she does not lie as sloppily... Trump lies like a child. He lies about stuff which is easily verifiable... Heck, he still defends trump university even though the whole thing has already been proven beyond any doubt to have been a scam. In one of the debates he even said it had an A rating (or something of the sort) only to immediately be corrected. And still stand by his lie.
 
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xi0

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...so what exactly does that have to do with trust or his stances? Weren't there all sorts of conspiracy theories about Obama years before Trump voiced himself on that? And that's certainly not the first or only conspiracy theory he involved himself with. And didn't that conspiracy theory end quite good? Obama giving proof, which is enough to please most of the people who doubted him. Only interesting is why it took him some years to do much about it but oh well.
Wait, so you'd be fine with an attention-whoring public figure pushing some crackpot conspiracy theory only for him to be utterly wrong? Your opinion of him wouldn't change at all? He wouldn't be discredited in any way? The "good" ending for him and birthers is if they were right, not them being proven wrong. I think it's rather obvious why the movement had as much steam as it did, and it had very little to do with him living in Indonesia as a kid. Trump might not have started it, but he was the loudest and most public voice regarding it for some time.

So I guess you think people who support 9/11 conspiracies or are holocaust deniers shouldn't have those things reflect on anything else they say? I hope you see my point.
 

kkck

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The worst part about the birther conspiracy theory is that even today donald trump stands by it. He has been categorically and objectively proven wrong and ridiculed to a ridiculous extent and stands by this. He avoids the issue but is incapable of saying that obama simply was born at the US....
 

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The worst part about the birther conspiracy theory is that even today donald trump stands by it. He has been categorically and objectively proven wrong and ridiculed to a ridiculous extent and stands by this. He avoids the issue but is incapable of saying that obama simply was born at the US....
As much as I dislike Clinton, she was right when she said Trump traffics in prejudice and paranoia. His involvement in the Birther movement is the only proof you need to see that.
 

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That's not really what political correctness is intended for. Conservatives just like to bring it up to further their narrative about Christianity being under attack or whatever keeps old grannies awake at night. But yeah, telling someone Merry Christmas isn't offending or disadvantaging anyone really.


Pandering isn't offensive? Avoiding stating something that's really rings false is somehow taking a side? I understand your concern, but I hope you notice the failures in logic here?

I guess emotions aren't very logical, especially when it comes to people and their faith. I guess it's inconvenient...but I mean, I'd rather deal with reality than something invented in order to prevent people from taking offense.
Then what is it intended for?

Depends. I wouldn't have an issue with him saying "God is a good person who wants peace, Christianity is a friendly religion!" but if he said "Islam is better than Christianity" or whatever, then I'd go "hell naw, that's taking sides."

I would too, although I question if the lady really didn't call San Bernardino police because of political correctness or if she did even notice anything at all. I mean, I don't even deny that we'd have seen more terrorism from Islamists if it weren't for our good security, like NYPD and etc.

As much as I dislike Clinton, she was right when she said Trump traffics in prejudice and paranoia. His involvement in the Birther movement is the only proof you need to see that.
Only if you're not a Trump supporter, otherwise I think the only way Trump could lose support is if he says Muslims shouldn't be banned at all or says walls are unnecessary.


Also, can anyone offer me proof that refugee children are security liabilities, at least more than babies who aren't wanted?
 

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I am pretty sure that hillary does not lie like this lol. Even if she does lie like this, clearly she does not lie as sloppily...
So what you're saying is: "She is better at deceiving me, hence she's more trustworthy!"? Sound logic m8.
And do you get most of your info from comedy youtube videos? Just curious.

I hope you see my point.
No, I really fail to see your point. At best you seem like a big fan of Obama which is why this conspiracy theory of 3 years ago is "making all your points" as you say.

Wait, so you'd be fine with an attention-whoring public figure pushing some crackpot conspiracy theory only for him to be utterly wrong? Your opinion of him wouldn't change at all? He wouldn't be discredited in any way? The "good" ending for him and birthers is if they were right, not them being proven wrong. I think it's rather obvious why the movement had as much steam as it did, and it had very little to do with him living in Indonesia as a kid. Trump might not have started it, but he was the loudest and most public voice regarding it for some time.

So I guess you think people who support 9/11 conspiracies or are holocaust deniers shouldn't have those things reflect on anything else they say?
I'm not "fine" with it, I just fail to see why it's so heavily relevant and why you make such a huge deal out of it. Please elaborate. Oh wait, I think I understood from your other post. You see it as him corrupting people and making more people believe in that theory? Fair enough, but that's just you assuming he did it for that. Imo he seemed like he really thought something was wrong with Obama's birth certificate, maybe a detail told by some of his sources or something, and then he was proven false.

Wouldn't it be much worse if his crackpot theory was correct? If not for Trump making so much steam as he did, many people would believe that theory even today as Obama never cared too much to prove these people wrong.

Actually my opinion would change. How brave must a man be to try making something out of nothing? :kappa

Discredited? That was reckless from him and heavy grasping at straws, but how does that discredit the other things he says? He tried to push something quite silly, and he failed at it. And he can just as easily be proven false whenever he tries pushing something equally silly. But that's that.

And you completely lost me at the end. You compare questioning Obama's origins to holocaust denying? What the hell? I can understand that you hate people who follow some really vague conspiracy theories, but you're drawing some really ridiculous parallels here.
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---
I would too, although I question if the lady really didn't call San Bernardino police because of political correctness or if she did even notice anything at all. I mean, I don't even deny that we'd have seen more terrorism from Islamists if it weren't for our good security, like NYPD and etc.
So you're saying it's more likely the neighbors were lying? Why?
--- Double Post Merged, ---
Only if you're not a Trump supporter, otherwise I think the only way Trump could lose support is if he says Muslims shouldn't be banned at all or says walls are unnecessary.
Actually, I'd go so far as to assume that most of his supporters would still stay with him after that, since he'd find something else to keep the people entertained, and he's still the "anti-government guy" and all.
I wouldn't care much about him going back on several things, but if he actually backtracks on the wall I'd never forgive him.
 

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I never said it was more likely that the neighbors could be lying.
 

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I never said it was more likely that the neighbors could be lying.
Ah. Still, is there a particular reason you're questioning the validity of what they said or are you being sceptic?
 

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I'm being skeptical, especially when I don't see how PC would stop people from reporting anyway.
 

xi0

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Depends. I wouldn't have an issue with him saying "God is a good person who wants peace, Christianity is a friendly religion!" but if he said "Islam is better than Christianity" or whatever, then I'd go "hell naw, that's taking sides."
Well, he'd never say that either. Something like that is too controversial, and subjective anyway. He's a Christian, after all.

No, I really fail to see your point. At best you seem like a big fan of Obama which is why this conspiracy theory of 3 years ago is "making all your points" as you say.
Stating facts about someone means you're a big fan of them? I'm not a big fan of Obama, nor any politician, but that has nothing to do with the topic either way. Trump still hasn't gone back on it either when asked about it, so it being from 3 years ago is kinda irrelevant.

I'm not "fine" with it, I just fail to see why it's so heavily relevant and why you make such a huge deal out of it. Please elaborate. Oh wait, I think I understood from your other post. You see it as him corrupting people and making more people believe in that theory? Fair enough, but that's just you assuming he did it for that. Imo he seemed like he really thought something was wrong with Obama's birth certificate, maybe a detail told by some of his sources or something, and then he was proven false.
You don't see how much of an attention-seeker this guy is? Were you even aware of him before he ran for president? The guy is media-savvy, even if it's something he thought was true, what's the point of continually speaking on it if he had no intention of influencing the public over it? Why give so much credence to the movement without hard evidence?

Wouldn't it be much worse if his crackpot theory was correct? If not for Trump making so much steam as he did, many people would believe that theory even today as Obama never cared too much to prove these people wrong.
I don't see why you would want to give him credit for perpetuating it in order to prove himself wrong. That makes no sense. That's obviously not what Birthers were trying to do either. A good result for a Birther is his election being rendered illegal and him being kicked out of office. Also, define "never cared"? He denied it whenever he was asked as far as I can recall. His campaign produced a short version of his certificated and later on when he was in office he asked Hawaii to wave their policy on not producing long-form printed versions of it and released that as well.

And you completely lost me at the end. You compare questioning Obama's origins to holocaust denying? What the hell? I can understand that you hate people who follow some really vague conspiracy theories, but you're drawing some really ridiculous parallels here.
I brought up other conspiracy theories as an example, not making any sort of value or moral judgment on believing them or not. Just merely saying that buying into these theories have an effect on the perception of a person's judgment in a general sense. I would think that much is pretty obvious. :oh

I wouldn't care much about him going back on several things, but if he actually backtracks on the wall I'd never forgive him.
Why would you "never forgive him"? How does the wall being built or not have any effect on your life? That's an aspect of the US's domestic policy that has nothing to do with Europe really. Why exactly is that your breaking point?
 

kkck

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So what you're saying is: "She is better at deceiving me, hence she's more trustworthy!"? Sound logic m8.
And do you get most of your info from comedy youtube videos? Just curious.
I did say "even if she does" which merely implies there is the possibility of her lying and giving her the benefit of doubt. Trump is a proven pathological liar who sticks to tales which are easily falsified... It's ridiculous.

I'd say about 30-40%, I'd say most of the satirical news shows are at least more reliable than fox news or cnn (though fox news does not even qualify as news). . The rest is from newspaper articles online or looking stuff up myself. In this case this specific video more than makes my point regardless of it being comedic... The alternative was megan kelly putting trump in his place regarding trump university being a shameless scam but that is somehow less fun.
 

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Just to add to the wall topic, even if Trump is elected, I wouldn't count on it being built. Funding will need Congress' approval, already existing border fence goes through privately owned property. There are numerous examples of that in Texas alone along the Rio Grande. There will be people who challenge any eminent domain claims in court, costing the taxpayers even more...and to top it all off, Mexico isn't paying for shit. It's all a mirage of bullshit, just like his campaign. :lmao
 

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Well, he'd never say that either. Something like that is too controversial, and subjective anyway. He's a Christian, after all.
It's an example! I don't care if he says a religion is a religion of peace, as long as he doesn't demonize anyone or anything that doesn't deserve it or takes side. A president shouldn't take sides, like the candidates and etc are with Israel vs. Palestine. All someone like Trump and Cruz is doing is creating hatred and scapegoat, whether they blame Muslims and suggest blocking them or monitoring them or when they say white shooters are people with mental issues.

Why would you "never forgive him"? How does the wall being built or not have any effect on your life? That's an aspect of the US's domestic policy that has nothing to do with Europe really. Why exactly is that your breaking point?
I think he was joking. but then again, it's not like Trump supporters have a brain anyway.
 

xi0

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It's an example! I don't care if he says a religion is a religion of peace, as long as he doesn't demonize anyone or anything that doesn't deserve it or takes side. A president shouldn't take sides, like the candidates and etc are with Israel vs. Palestine. All someone like Trump and Cruz is doing is creating hatred and scapegoat, whether they blame Muslims and suggest blocking them or monitoring them or when they say white shooters are people with mental issues.
We're going around in circles. I think I made my point regarding political correctness enough times already.

White shooters don't have mental issues? What are you talking about?
 

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Not a lot of them do, and it's ridiculous to blame shooting on mental issues. That's all politicians do, blame it on mental issues instead of guns and talk about tackling mental health, but forgetting about it after the whole thing seems to blow over.
 

xi0

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Not a lot of them do, and it's ridiculous to blame shooting on mental issues. That's all politicians do, blame it on mental issues instead of guns and talk about tackling mental health, but forgetting about it after the whole thing seems to blow over.
Well, why wouldn't it be blamed on mental issues? Not that it can't be a gun control issue as well. The problem is it's too inconvenient to actually do anything about it from a politician's POV.
 
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