American Politics

shionoro

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Highly doubt it, it'd probably be a close race between the three. Or at least, between him and Trump.
I highly disagree with that. Obama is a lot more likeable than clinton, and even clinton polls far ahead of trump.
He had no email scandal, he had respectable two terms, he effortlessly got into his second term and there would be no bernie bro controversy because there would not be any primary.
Obama vs trump would not even be a race, it'd be a safe bet.
 

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The onus is on the individual to be well-informed. The media can't be held accountable for people being ignorant or even in some cases mislead. That's all I really have left to say about this issue.


I mean, okay? That's just pure conjecture....lol
The media can be held accountable for not reporting unbiased facts or being too sensational or whatnot.

Shockingly, yes it is.

Probably spokespeople or those who identify as being a part of the movement. I mean, who wouldn't disavow it? That wasn't really my point. The fact is, no one on twitter can control shit like who uses hashtags or what is done in the name of a cause.

The incident in New York occurred before BLM became as popular as it is now IIRC. Actions and rhetoric aren't the same thing, but you still see some people online making excuses for heinous and hypocritical rhetoric, simply because "black people are dead" or what have you. That said, I don't believe they're a hate group and most protests occur without incident. There's definitely a reason and justification for BLM existing, but labeling any kind of criticism or questioning of their message as "racist" is also inexcusable IMO. It feels like there is way too much hostility when it comes to topics like this or topics like religion. It seems like we live in a day and age where people are actively seeking to be offended and "victimized" only by encountering someone who disagrees with them, but I digress.
The killers themselves said they weren't part of the BLM movement, though the NYC cops killer said he was doing it for his black brothers. I think one of the cop killers had PTSD? I forgot the details.

Yeah, and I'm disgusted with those people who endorse violence against police or white people. They can interrupt rallies for all I care or even stop traffic, but to harm a group of people whose job is to protect citizens? GOING TOO FAR. Though, given your explanation, it's not hard to see why Trump caught on and became popular.

Don't forget the irony when these black people crying racism make racist jokes or call white people racist names.
I highly disagree with that. Obama is a lot more likeable than clinton, and even clinton polls far ahead of trump.
He had no email scandal, he had respectable two terms, he effortlessly got into his second term and there would be no bernie bro controversy because there would not be any primary.
Obama vs trump would not even be a race, it'd be a safe bet.
Obama is not likable to majority of Americans who have had him for 8 years. Obama is pretty unpopular among the republicans, and I doubt most would even consider siding with him over Trump regardless of shit that Trump says. I think many undecided voters would also be against Obama because of BLM and out of support of cops, as I see many of my FB friends cry about how Obama has never given a speech about fallen cops like he does with fallen black people.

If I recall, it wasn't effortless, but I don't know why Romney lost. Maybe because we all know Obama and know what to expect from him as opposed to Romney?
 

xi0

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The media can be held accountable for not reporting unbiased facts or being too sensational or whatnot
By whom? Other media outlets....? You see where I'm going with this, right?

Yeah, and I'm disgusted with those people who endorse violence against police or white people. They can interrupt rallies for all I care or even stop traffic, but to harm a group of people whose job is to protect citizens? GOING TOO FAR. Though, given your explanation, it's not hard to see why Trump caught on and became popular.
That's rather debatable. Sanders handled that whole ordeal over a year ago with grace, because he knew what the situation was. But people flooding onto interstates and stopping traffic is ridiculous IMO. Not only is it dangerous for everyone involved, it also creates resentment. But hey, I'm not organizing their marches, so whatever.
 

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What surprises me quite a bit is how many people think the rest of the world does not respect obama. You see that quite a bit in the comments and in many other places. I get the impression they think respect is the same thing as fear....

I am not sure the obama situation is comparable to the reagan situation as far as popularity goes. Reagan was more popular within the US than outside at least. I don't have a source right now but from what I understand reagan was not popular in europe for the most part. Need to work on that source though.
Assuming the sources are correct, I've never noticed that Reagan was not popular in Europe. I mean, I'd get it if it were in Germany (since he did made some comments about the country's division when he's at the Berlin Wall), but if it's all of Europe, then I'd be surprised.

Middle East sees Obama as a violent war criminal responsible for the death of many of their people, especially by supporting Israel. they are not happy with him. Assuming my sources are true.

Why are you surprised? People don't give a shit about the Middle East other than oil and dislike of Muslims.
Which is sort-off understandable, especially the 2 bombings at a Wedding and a Hospital triggered an outrage. Not sure about the reasoning that he supports Israel causes them to dislike him, but that's nothing new, really.
 

shionoro

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But Obama is not even a real Defender of Israel. Obama is the most Israel critical president since a Long time.
And let's dont Forget that the Islam league wanted Obama to go into lybia and to go intro syria (which he did not do).
And that Pakistan and yemen both supported (at least initially) the dronewar taking place.

I don't think Obama is seen negative in the middle east. the US is. And that is rather independend from what it does , really.

Obama was a fine president. In Germany in 2014, about 60% had a positive opinion about him, which is hell of a lot more than most german politicians have and is a drop from even better values before. And this was in a tim after the lybia Intervention and before his reelection, i would assume that his value is even a tad better now.
What i can definitely say is that the Image of the US arround europe got significantly better since Obama.
 

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But Obama is not even a real Defender of Israel. Obama is the most Israel critical president since a Long time.
But isn't Netanyahu being in power also a factor there? The leadership of Israel seems to have inched further and further right ever since the Likud-Yisrael merger. It really isn't simply a matter of Obama deciding to support Israel less just because. There are ideological differences there. At least, that's the perception I have. And then you have the whole circus with the GOP leadership inviting him to speak in front of congress and then blaming Obama for not doing it himself or some nonsense. It felt like Netanyahu had no issue inserting himself and Israel into American politics as a political football...which seemed sort of distasteful to me, idk.
 

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By whom? Other media outlets....? You see where I'm going with this, right?


That's rather debatable. Sanders handled that whole ordeal over a year ago with grace, because he knew what the situation was. But people flooding onto interstates and stopping traffic is ridiculous IMO. Not only is it dangerous for everyone involved, it also creates resentment. But hey, I'm not organizing their marches, so whatever.
By other people. I mean, I'd rather read an honest report than report that's geared towards me or a right wing or a liberal or a Christian.

That's how you protest something. I don't like the fact that they're jeopardizing people's jobs (also causing resentment too), but it's how you get attention to the movement. What else are they supposed to do? There are pictures of white people being raucous and abusive towards black people who sat in diners to order food and went to all-whites-only schools, and they did nothing wrong. based on that, I wouldn't be surprised if BLM decided to be loud and attention whorey.

If it's dangerous, it's dangerous. It's the BLM protester's own fault for what happens.

Assuming the sources are correct, I've never noticed that Reagan was not popular in Europe. I mean, I'd get it if it were in Germany (since he did made some comments about the country's division when he's at the Berlin Wall), but if it's all of Europe, then I'd be surprised.



Which is sort-off understandable, especially the 2 bombings at a Wedding and a Hospital triggered an outrage. Not sure about the reasoning that he supports Israel causes them to dislike him, but that's nothing new, really.
I actually forgot, but I remember someone like @Drmke talking about Obama/US still supplying weapons to Israel. Palestinians/Muslims would not be happy if this is true.

wonder which side Hillary and Trump are on. Personally, I'm on the Palestine side, just because the land was theirs before it was the Jewish's... if my sources are true.

And speaking of Trump, anyone hear about the imam and another Muslim being killed in NYC? I haven't been updated yet so I don't know who did it, but people are blaming Trump for this. My first thought: pfft, how? Second thought: maybe possible. Still though, I don't think it's fair to blame Trump, at least not yet.
 

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wonder which side Hillary and Trump are on. Personally, I'm on the Palestine side, just because the land was theirs before it was the Jewish's... if my sources are true.
It is very very unwise in General to take sides in complex conflicts like that. Exspecially when the sidetaking is built on blood and ground thoughts.
 
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xi0

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What else are they supposed to do? There are pictures of white people being raucous and abusive towards black people who sat in diners to order food and went to all-whites-only schools, and they did nothing wrong. based on that, I wouldn't be surprised if BLM decided to be loud and attention whorey.
I mean, I get that this has a lot of the same support that the civil rights movement had back then, but is that really an honest and fair analogy?

Personally, I'm on the Palestine side, just because the land was theirs before it was the Jewish's... if my sources are true.
I don't think either side has ground to stand on as far as a superior claim and that isn't going to change with each generation. The reality is, the west established Israel and it isn't going anywhere anytime soon.

I see a point in criticizing the policy and rhetoric used by both sides at any given time, but don't see a point in taking a side. I will say that claims based on religious evidence should hold no weight, but obviously that doesn't seem to be in Israel's best interest to operate with this in mind, given their tendency towards deliberate occupation of places outside of their supposed borders.

And speaking of Trump, anyone hear about the imam and another Muslim being killed in NYC? I haven't been updated yet so I don't know who did it, but people are blaming Trump for this. My first thought: pfft, how? Second thought: maybe possible. Still though, I don't think it's fair to blame Trump, at least not yet.
Unless Trump has been calling for people to kill Muslims, I don't know how he could be held accountable for it... Are you actually being serious here?
 

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I actually forgot, but I remember someone like @Drmke talking about Obama/US still supplying weapons to Israel. Palestinians/Muslims would not be happy if this is true.

wonder which side Hillary and Trump are on. Personally, I'm on the Palestine side, just because the land was theirs before it was the Jewish's... if my sources are true.

And speaking of Trump, anyone hear about the imam and another Muslim being killed in NYC? I haven't been updated yet so I don't know who did it, but people are blaming Trump for this. My first thought: pfft, how? Second thought: maybe possible. Still though, I don't think it's fair to blame Trump, at least not yet.
The US supplying Israel has been happening for a long time ago, and it's something not even President Obama has control over (unless there's more to fiscal policy than I know of).

Unsure about Hillary, but I *think* he's on the Israeli's side.
I used to be on the Palestinian side, but I moved to "Neutral" since the conflict is very complicated after taking a specific course (it's more of a nationality issue that is then mixed with religious clauses). This is coming from a Muslim who does believe Israel has the complete right to exist (but so does the Palestinians), and I hope that the conflict would someday be put in a closure, because it's been happening for a long time.

I've heard about that terrible incident, but blaming it on Trump is silly. I'd get it if it was something like Trump supporters using violence against anyone that doesn't support Trump, because at least there's solid evidence that Trump promotes such behavior.
Putting that aside, I hope the shooter gets what he deserve by the judge.
 

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The US supplying Israel has been happening for a long time ago, and it's something not even President Obama has control over (unless there's more to fiscal policy than I know of).
The president could potentially have a say as far as federal aid goes, but from my recollection, Israel receives at least half as much more in private funding as it does from the US government. It's also the only country that has such an arrangement, where US citizens can make tax-deductible donations to that directly fund the government. Congress has also forgiven many of the loans we've given to them on top of that.

In total, we've sent some absurd figure, like $125 billion dollars in financial aid to Israel...and what exactly do we have to show for it? I mean, with a figure like that, one does sort of contemplate what's been gained there. The only country that we send more Economic and Military aid to is Afghanistan, which at least makes sense given population and our involvement there....
 

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The president could potentially have a say as far as federal aid goes, but from my recollection, Israel receives at least half as much more in private funding as it does from the US government. It's also the only country that has such an arrangement, where US citizens can make tax-deductible donations to that directly fund the government. Congress has also forgiven many of the loans we've given to them on top of that.
Which is outrageous if you ask me. I've even read that PM Netanyahu wants the US to increase the budget.
I'd get it if we were to support Israel for the purpose of assisting them from attacks, but this is also hurting the US civilians.
 

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I don't know the whole thing is a mess. The existence of Israel was borne from good intentions, but we've been dealing with the results of it for decades now and I don't think our foreign policy has been as fair as it should be (not that foreign aid hasn't been appropriated to the West Bank/Gaza as well).
 

Philia

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I don't know the whole thing is a mess. The existence of Israel was borne from good intentions, but we've been dealing with the results of it for decades now and I don't think our foreign policy has been as fair as it should be (not that foreign aid hasn't been appropriated to the West Bank/Gaza as well).
Israel is a developed country. Why they'd need aid?
 

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I mean, I get that this has a lot of the same support that the civil rights movement had back then, but is that really an honest and fair analogy?


I don't think either side has ground to stand on as far as a superior claim and that isn't going to change with each generation. The reality is, the west established Israel and it isn't going anywhere anytime soon.

I see a point in criticizing the policy and rhetoric used by both sides at any given time, but don't see a point in taking a side. I will say that claims based on religious evidence should hold no weight, but obviously that doesn't seem to be in Israel's best interest to operate with this in mind, given their tendency towards deliberate occupation of places outside of their supposed borders.


Unless Trump has been calling for people to kill Muslims, I don't know how he could be held accountable for it... Are you actually being serious here?
In a way, yes. Though, the Civil Rights movement had a clear leader in MLK Jr, who advocated for nonviolence. I think they were organized and had structure, whereas BLM has no clear leader or structure. I think one of the reasons why BLM is seen negatively is because few people claim to be part of Black Lives Matter movement, but they act violently or inappropriately, like disrupting students at a library or whatnot. I'm not denying there are differences between the two, and the one thing in common they have is making sure blacks get fair and equal treatment, though BLM apparently does believe in All Lives Matter. However, I base this on shared FB pictures on FB, which either is untrue or does not paint complete picture (as I myself realized).

Honestly, I'd rather Israel and Palestine get along and share the same land, but I do think it's unfair the Jewish people invaded Palestine and pushed the Palestinians out. Again though, I admit my ignorance, and that it may not be as simple as this... for all I know, the Jewish people wanted that, but the Palestinians responded violently.

I make my claim based on reading that Muslims used to reside on the land until they got pushed out. If this is false or not the complete truth. Religious reasons have no merit for me, and I find the whole Promised Land thing a bunch of malarkey, as well as how Muslims are responding to the Jewish. Both sides are violent, and neither are justified, IMO, whether it's more persona like Israeli soldiers executing Palestinian boys or Palestinian terrorist groups attacking Israeli citizens. Personally, I'd end all and any aid and urge both sides to work together.

Yes I am. And according to a source or two, it seems anyone who blamed Trump was wrong. I forgot the source, but it said that the executions came from a dispute between Muslims and Mexicans of that area. In any case, it makes no sense to blame Trump regardless because I don't think anyone would kill even in his name, even if it's a Muslim. I'd love to say it hasn't happened so far yet, but I don't know if the media would cover that. I don't know if they covered [this, actually.

But while I'd blame Trump for violence, it's weird to blame him for murder. I'm not sure if he'd be against it though, honestly. All Trump has done is give more people balls to be loud, otherwise anti-Islam views have existed for at least a decade and half. I'm not sure if it existed for longer, as I read about a group of Muslims bombing the World Trade Center before in retaliation... the 9/11 attacks were the second or third time WTC was targeted. But then again, the same history textbook said Reagan was under fire for backdoor dealing that got us back our hostages from Iran, but Google says it was planning and execution by Carter, and Reagan just happened to be a president when the dealing succeeded or something. OR I'm getting it mixed up with another event.

In shorter words, I may not know what's true and what's not due to various sources, from textbooks in schools to various news sources to Google! <_>

The US supplying Israel has been happening for a long time ago, and it's something not even President Obama has control over (unless there's more to fiscal policy than I know of).

Unsure about Hillary, but I *think* he's on the Israeli's side.
I used to be on the Palestinian side, but I moved to "Neutral" since the conflict is very complicated after taking a specific course (it's more of a nationality issue that is then mixed with religious clauses). This is coming from a Muslim who does believe Israel has the complete right to exist (but so does the Palestinians), and I hope that the conflict would someday be put in a closure, because it's been happening for a long time.

I've heard about that terrible incident, but blaming it on Trump is silly. I'd get it if it was something like Trump supporters using violence against anyone that doesn't support Trump, because at least there's solid evidence that Trump promotes such behavior.
Putting that aside, I hope the shooter gets what he deserve by the judge.
I don't know, I feel he can do something about it. But then again, it seems an overwhelming majority support Israel. I remember reading an article on Bardem and Cruz being criticized by Rivers and majority of the citizens for taking Palestine's side, and being forced to issue an apology letter. Here's a source I got from Googling "Javier Bardem Penelope Cruz Israel."

Speaking of that, Joan Rivers is a horrible person, and I have no idea why people felt bad or honored her. But that's for a different topic.

Would be nice if Israelis and Palestinians can live side by side, actually.
 

xi0

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Israel is a developed country. Why they'd need aid?
They are one of the West's closest allies in the region. Some would argue that they'd probably would have fallen and been invaded a long time ago if it wasn't for the military support put behind the notion that it should exist. They have had an incredible amount of support from the west as a result.

But even then, there are a ton of religious, historical, and socioeconomic reasons why this conflict is still ongoing and will likely never truly end....
 

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They are one of the West's closest allies in the region. Some would argue that they'd probably would have fallen and been invaded a long time ago if it wasn't for the military support put behind the notion that it should exist. They have had an incredible amount of support from the west as a result.
It makes sense. But why still continue the aid ?
Israel for quite some time have been the strongest nation in ME.
 

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It makes sense. But why still continue the aid ?
Israel for quite some time have been the strongest nation in ME.
They're the strongest nation in ME due to support from the West. As well as pretty consistent immigration/networking as well as a decent tourist industry for obvious reasons.

It's not aid in that people need food. It's military aid as well. And it's done because of oil being in the region and them being ally in a strategically beneficial location as well.

There's also some stigma to this day concerning criticisms of rather hardline zionist policies automatically making you an antisemite in some circles... But meh.
 

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It's military aid as well.
Israel has one of the best military in the world. Why they would need aid?
and them being ally in a strategically beneficial location as well.
Would they no longer be an ally, if the aid is stopped?
 

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Israel has one of the best military in the world. Why they would need aid?

Would they no longer be an ally, if the aid is topped?
... Don't you understand the reason why it is that they have such a military? The region has been in perpetual conflict for like 60 years and it's military is powerful bevause it has the muscle of the West behind it.


If aide was ever to be stopped or have more stipulations on it, I'm not sure. But policy would most likely have to change... But that happening seems rather unlikely.
 
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