American Politics

[Onyx Darkmatter]

I don't think I have ever been this pissed off over a candidate before. I already knew he was an extremely dangerous candidate, but this crosses the line about his duties: Donald Trump wants to make Pence run the country instead of himself. So what's the fucking point in running a Presidential Campaign if you're not even going to bother doing your fucking job?
I'll hate to admit it myself, and I don't even want to do this, but I'm definitely going to give Hillary a vote to win the election. I don't care if people are telling me that I'm contributing to the problem, Donald Trump will only make contribute to more problems with his void policies, chaotic Ego with Attitude, and his childish act. I can't pick Gary Johnson because I don't see him as a qualified presidential candidate (even if he is, there's literally no chance in hell that he would win, not a chance), and I sure as shit won't pick Jill Stein because she's a moron who thinks Nuclear weapons comes from Nuclear Power Plants.

Minor rant aside, I couldn't bear to watch the VP debate. Nothing useful for me (unless something unexpected happens).

 

[shionoro]

I don't think I have ever been this pissed off over a candidate before. I already knew he was an extremely dangerous candidate, but this crosses the line about his duties: Donald Trump wants to make Pence run the country instead of himself. So what's the fucking point in running a Presidential Campaign if you're not even going to bother doing your fucking job?
I'll hate to admit it myself, and I don't even want to do this, but I'm definitely going to give Hillary a vote to win the election. I don't care if people are telling me that I'm contributing to the problem, Donald Trump will only make contribute to more problems with his void policies, chaotic Ego with Attitude, and his childish act. I can't pick Gary Johnson because I don't see him as a qualified presidential candidate (even if he is, there's literally no chance in hell that he would win, not a chance), and I sure as shit won't pick Jill Stein because she's a moron who thinks Nuclear weapons comes from Nuclear Power Plants.

Minor rant aside, I couldn't bear to watch the VP debate. Nothing useful for me (unless something unexpected happens).

i will say this: Pence would have a good shot at beating clinton in a debate. He is really good at what he does. And i think you are right: it would actually be him reigning if trump wins.
Honestly? The reps shoulda let this guy run for office. He is better at debating and building trust than any of th guys in the primary. Even if i think he is a terrible human.

 

[xi0]

I'll hate to admit it myself, and I don't even want to do this, but I'm definitely going to give Hillary a vote to win the election.

So then I guess you have the dilemma of living in a battleground state?

Thankfully the electoral college will allow me the privilege of being clear of conscious

--- Double Post Merged, Oct 5, 2016, Original Post Date: Oct 5, 2016 ---

Honestly? The reps shoulda let this guy run for office. He is better at debating and building trust than any of th guys in the primary. Even if i think he is a terrible human.

He had no name recognition I guess.

But even then, I'm not sure what you mean about him being better at building up trust despite being a terrible human? So he's better because he's better at being deceptive?

 

[shionoro]

So then I guess you have the dilemma of living in a battleground state?

Thankfully the electoral college will allow me the privilege of being clear of conscious

I always keep asking myself how nonswingstates maintain their voter turnout.
In theory, i'D assume that after a time so few people care to vote that a third party comes arround. But it does not happen.
Must be like with sport fans who will show up anyway even if their team already won or lost.

--- Double Post Merged, Oct 5, 2016, Original Post Date: Oct 5, 2016 ---

He had no name recognition I guess.

But even then, I'm not sure what you mean about him being better at building up trust despite being a terrible human? So he's better because he's better at being deceptive?

Well if i try to judge someone's appearance in a debate, i try to imagine what i would think if i had no beforehand knowledge or bias.

And then i see pence speaking calmly, letting caine speak out uninterrupted usually and only then making damnit remarks about what caine has said in a very convincing way. If I would not know pence didnt govern his state well and if i would not know that the things he and trump stand for are not good for the counttry, i'd be inclined to believe him rather than caine who always freaks out when pence says something mean about clinton.

He is the absolute opposite of trump as a debater and that is a good thing.
The only thing that might hurt him is that he is a little bit too smug, but that is a far shot from being bad.
He always manages to make caine upset so that the moderator has to admonish him.

 

[Onyx Darkmatter]

So then I guess you have the dilemma of living in a battleground state?

Thankfully the electoral college will allow me the privilege of being clear of conscious

Not like it would have made a difference with Trump going to war against Mexico over a fucking wall.

 

[xi0]

I always keep asking myself how nonswingstates maintain their voter turnout.
In theory, i'D assume that after a time so few people care to vote that a third party comes arround. But it does not happen.
Must be like with sport fans who will show up anyway even if their team already won or lost.

Well, the ballot isn't only about the Presidential election. If the person going to the ballot has any sort of sense, they know much more will be on the ballot - a senate election, congressional elections, state and municipal elections, sheriff/judicial races, local ballot initiatives. It varies from state to state, but there's much more on there than just the presidential contest.

He is the absolute opposite of trump as a debater and that is a good thing.
The only thing that might hurt him is that he is a little bit too smug, but that is a far shot from being bad.
He always manages to make caine upset so that the moderator has to admonish him.

I thought Caine came off a bit like clown in some interviews and the DNC Convention. He was picked because he had a good reputation among his peers.

Well, I guess Pence is a pro. That's why he can maintain an office despite being paid to be a Big Tobacco shill. I mean even during his acceptance speech to be Trumps running mate he joked about being wanted because he brought "balance". And I think that's balance as far as personality goes, not views...because the guy might even be further right than Trump really is.

 

[shionoro]

Well, the ballot isn't only about the Presidential election. If the person going to the ballot has any sort of sense, they know much more will be on the ballot - a senate election, congressional elections, state and municipal elections, sheriff/judicial races, local ballot initiatives. It varies from state to state, but there's much more on there than just the presidential contest.

Ah, alright, that makes sense now.

I thought Caine came off a bit like clown in some interviews and the DNC Convention. He was picked because he had a good reputation among his peers.

Well, I guess Pence is a pro. That's why he can maintain an office despite being paid to be a Big Tobacco shill. I mean even during his acceptance speech to be Trumps running mate he joked about being wanted because he brought "balance". And I think that's balance as far as personality goes, not views...because the guy might even be further right than Trump really is.

He does come off very confused at times. I do think he is a good govenor and a nice person as far as i can judge it, but to someone without any bias he must come off like a rambling old man.
To me he definitely lost that debate hard, and i wanted him to win it a lot. He didnt tank as hard as trump, but still lost decisively.

I think he is. Exspecially when it comes to abortion he is as rightwing as one can be. Trump is generally more of a anythinggoes-winger. Trump might take a topic and blow it up to get sympathies, but pence has a real agenda behind the things he does.
A president pence would actually be a scarier thought for me than a president trump. Trump is not a mad man who blows out nukes, no matter his temper and antics. He abuses the public and does it for personal benefit, but that is evil at worst, not crazy.
But pence with legislative power in a possibly republican congress? That seems very threatening to the social and economic future of the country.

 

[M3J]

I always keep asking myself how nonswingstates maintain their voter turnout.
In theory, i'D assume that after a time so few people care to vote that a third party comes arround. But it does not happen.
Must be like with sport fans who will show up anyway even if their team already won or lost.

--- Double Post Merged, Oct 5, 2016, Original Post Date: Oct 5, 2016 ---

Well if i try to judge someone's appearance in a debate, i try to imagine what i would think if i had no beforehand knowledge or bias.

And then i see pence speaking calmly, letting caine speak out uninterrupted usually and only then making damnit remarks about what caine has said in a very convincing way. If I would not know pence didnt govern his state well and if i would not know that the things he and trump stand for are not good for the counttry, i'd be inclined to believe him rather than caine who always freaks out when pence says something mean about clinton.

He is the absolute opposite of trump as a debater and that is a good thing.
The only thing that might hurt him is that he is a little bit too smug, but that is a far shot from being bad.
He always manages to make caine upset so that the moderator has to admonish him.

Wouldn't be shocked if they learned from the presidential debate and trusted Pence to keep calm. DUnno if they knew or anticipated Kaine reacting the way he allegedly did (didn't watch the debate), but if they did, then kudos. But there's a decent chance Kaine did quite a bit of damage to Hillary's campaign, esecially if he kept defending Hillary at any criticism.

 

[xi0]

I think it's tough to gauge how relevant the Vice Presidential debates are. Sure, there have been memorable quotes and snippets here from past ones, but how much they effect polls? Who knows.

Anyone expecting Pence to not be calm and measured wouldn't know anything about him. He's the politician, his running-mate is a reality tv star.

 

[M3J]

I think it'd be relevant enough because it shows how competent a vice president can be if the president is unable to do his duties. Isn't that one factor why McCain lost, because people were too scared of President Palin? Though, I have no idea if she ever had a debate with Biden.

 

[GrySun]

Pence did really amazing in the VP debate, impressive.

 

[shionoro]

I think it's tough to gauge how relevant the Vice Presidential debates are. Sure, there have been memorable quotes and snippets here from past ones, but how much they effect polls? Who knows.

Anyone expecting Pence to not be calm and measured wouldn't know anything about him. He's the politician, his running-mate is a reality tv star.

I found this:
https://psmag.com/do-vice-presidential-debates-matter-6af4d010d43a#.vebnzmttj
"A 2010 study published in Presidential Study Quarterly confirms this trend. Using National Election Survey data between 1968 and 2008, researchers at the University of California–Irvine concluded that a VP candidate has a less than 1 percent net impact on a voter’s decision to cross party lines. Even the much-hyped debate between Joe Biden and Sarah Palin in 2008 was “slightly” lower than the historical average, registering around one-half of a percentage point. “Only in 1972 was more than 1% of the final vote affected by conflicted vice presidential and presidential preferences,” the authors wrote."

It could be somewhat different in this election because people there might be many people who do not like clinton but are afraid of trump.
Pence might have lulled them into false security....but trump could destroy that picture easily in the next debate.
Trusting Trump on that one

But ya, i do not think the vice presidential debate will destroy trump's downward trend (and i dont think the made up scandal about of the clinton foundation will, either).
It will just remind us that we are lucky no actually competent right wing politician won the nomination.

 

[Philia]

If she gets Florida, then she has a good opportunity at winning the race (if Trump wins it, then she's going to need at least a couple Mid-West states to make up for that loss).
I guess the debates have also had an effect on that (and Trump's further fuck-ups).

Fivethirtyeight now predicts possibility of Clinton winning is 75%. In their last update flipped Nevada from likely Republican to likely Democrats. And showing Clinton has 50.5% chances of taking Ohio. 63% chances of taking Florida. If she gets Florida she becomes the president.

Its a delight to read analysis of Nate Silver, from a statistical point of view.

 

[kkck]

I don't think I have ever been this pissed off over a candidate before. I already knew he was an extremely dangerous candidate, but this crosses the line about his duties: Donald Trump wants to make Pence run the country instead of himself. So what's the fucking point in running a Presidential Campaign if you're not even going to bother doing your fucking job?
I'll hate to admit it myself, and I don't even want to do this, but I'm definitely going to give Hillary a vote to win the election. I don't care if people are telling me that I'm contributing to the problem, Donald Trump will only make contribute to more problems with his void policies, chaotic Ego with Attitude, and his childish act. I can't pick Gary Johnson because I don't see him as a qualified presidential candidate (even if he is, there's literally no chance in hell that he would win, not a chance), and I sure as shit won't pick Jill Stein because she's a moron who thinks Nuclear weapons comes from Nuclear Power Plants.

Minor rant aside, I couldn't bear to watch the VP debate. Nothing useful for me (unless something unexpected happens).

Well, we sort of already knew trump didn't want to put a speck of work into his presidency. He just wants to sit on the big chair at the oval office and say yes or no to things without involving too much. Back when trump was looking for a VP one of his first choices appeared to be John Kasich. Kasich asked trump what his duties would be. And the response he got was that he was going to handle domestic and foreign policy. Which is quite literally all of the job. Perhaps in this regard the VP debate was more important than it was given credit for because if trump wins it could be pense running the show. Of course, pence running the country is far and wide a vastly superior alternative to trump running it.

 

[SharkBait]

Granted, there are some stances he has that I can definitely agree with, like cutting the Military Spending and legalizing Marijuana as a whole. While I may support non-interventionism

Why would one want to cut military spending when we live in an age in which non christian heretics are launching assaults on our homeland? Are you a terrorist apologist?

Aaaaand they've done it. Congress overturned the vetoed 9/11 Bill that allows Families to sue Saudi Arabia.

That was baffling why Mr Obama didnt agree to this, Saudia Arabia bears blame for allowing the growth of terrorists in the middle east. Money and responsibility is due to our country for their part in this heinous and despicable act of tyranny and infamy.

 

[shionoro]

Why would one want to cut military spending when we live in an age in which non christian heretics are launching assaults on our homeland? Are you a terrorist apologist?

Because terrorists don't lead wars but terror strikes, and your military, which is already the strongest in the world, does not help you against those.

That was baffling why Mr Obama didnt agree to this, Saudia Arabia bears blame for allowing the growth of terrorists in the middle east. Money and responsibility is due to our country for their part in this heinous and despicable act of tyranny and infamy.

Okay, but the problem is that by this logic, the US bears part of the blame for destabilizing iraq.....soo....you probably would not like if US citizens were sued for that.

 

[kkck]

Because terrorists don't lead wars but terror strikes, and your military, which is already the strongest in the world, does not help you against those.



Okay, but the problem is that by this logic, the US bears part of the blame for destabilizing iraq.....soo....you probably would not like if US citizens were sued for that.

More than that, I would say that no amount of military strength can defend the US from the sort of attacks they have had recently. I mean, it's normally US citizens who go under the radar. If they get caught or stopped it won't be by the military but by the police or maybe US intelligence.... The US military could have a budget 100 times bigger and be 1000 times stronger and it wouldn't make shred of a difference.

That is an issue that has me confused... Obama makes the point that the US could also be sued which of course if true would be a huge problem for them. But then again not even his own allies in congress support him. So... who has the accurate assessment of the situation here?

--- Double Post Merged, Oct 5, 2016, Original Post Date: Oct 5, 2016 ---

I am sort of confused about the VP debate. Based on what I have read it kinda seems like Pence walked out of it stronger than Kaine but in turn Pence lied about absolutely everything..... As in, he straight up lies about stuff trump says. How does he walk out stronger when so blatantly lying?

 

[shionoro]

That is an issue that has me confused... Obama makes the point that the US could also be sued which of course if true would be a huge problem for them. But then again not even his own allies in congress support him. So... who has the accurate assessment of the situation here?

The problem is: They do. they know obama is right, for the most part.
They still voted against the veto because in election time, they don't wanna be the ones who are against this populist bill. Because the bill is popular and thus they voted against their knowledge and partially even admitted it (i think i can dig out the clip of the daily show which showed it).

I am sort of confused about the VP debate. Based on what I have read it kinda seems like Pence walked out of it stronger than Kaine but in turn Pence lied about absolutely everything..... As in, he straight up lies about stuff trump says. How does he walk out stronger when so blatantly lying?

This election is long beyond the point where lying would be a big problem. He might get it back in the fact checks, we will see in like 3 days, but for people who just watched the debate and then didnt really watch political coverage, he was th competent one in the room.

--- Double Post Merged, Oct 5, 2016, Original Post Date: Oct 5, 2016 ---

It is this one:

 

[kkck]

This election is long beyond the point where lying would be a big problem. He might get it back in the fact checks, we will see in like 3 days, but for people who just watched the debate and then didnt really watch political coverage, he was th competent one in the room.

Fair enough..... Reading a bit more into the debate the whole thing came down to Pence trolling at a pro level. Everything came down to him mocking whatever Kaine said... As if Pence has mastered the "u mad bro". Which is a kinda stupid way to "win" a debate. It does seem like Kaine was incompetent at times and just let Pence get away with it.

 

[shionoro]

If Hillary's streak goes on, she might gain Iowa next.
If she does that, it really seems over for trump.

At least if clinton does not screw up hard in an upcoming debate.
But being the perfectionist she is, i doubt that.
She didnt even lose hard in the debates against obama back then. She lost, because he is a very strong debater, but she was able to hold her own and only lose by a very thin margin against him as far as primaries go.
Her doing as fatal mistakes as trump did seems unprobable.