American Politics

Onyx Darkmatter

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I don't know, there has been historical moments where a bad president won't get reelected because of how their administrations affected people (people like Hoover had a single term because of how badly they performed in office).
But, considering how we have people who voted for a dead gorilla and a name of alcohol, I wouldn't be surprised if we do get a disastrous 8 year of Trump Administration.
 

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I disagree there. It does not take a majority to get you unthroned.
There were revolutions started by as few as 15% of the population.
Thing is: Putin rides that thing for years already. Russians are very patient, sure, but the problems get worse.
For now, they get poorer, alright. But we will see what happens when their actual standard of living is diminished by a big margin.
That will take some time, but i see big problems for putin on the horizon. He plays the 'west is guilty' card as everybody else, but how will he play it if he succeeds in russiafriendly western governments? Russians are not stupid. At some point he will have to explain them why the youth cannot find jobs inside russia and why old people cannot afford to live.
Lots of the effects are mitigated for now, but he cannot do it forever.

I dont see the left having that stance in liberal media tho. And it should not be, i agree on that.
He wasted any goodwill he might have had from me by giving the breitbart guy a job.
And how many of those revolutions had even a pretense of democracy? I am only going by the dictators I have seen in my time here, maybe I missed a few. Go to central america and you have authoritarian regimes that have lasted decades through worst crisis than russia is going through now. Look at venezuela. Chaves carried the country through god knows what solely through popular support in spite of everything he did being idiotic. The current guy does not even have popular support and they still can't get rid of him yet. And I am pretty sure castro's morning routine specifically includes bitch slapping death and having it say thank you.

If he gets the russia friendly western governments then that is a best case scenario for him. Sanctions get lifted, he gets to do as he pleases in the region... Sure, he won't get the "it's the west's fault card". But he will have the "we made the west our bitch card". And getting the russia friendly governments would specifically imply a great deal of political stability in the west which makes russia comparatively stronger and thus it's influence increases.

Putin won't be brought down by poor economic performance and such things. He will be brought down when his polls go down and there actually is an alternative from the opposition and even then he won't go down without a fight to the death (perhaps literally).
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---
I don't know, there has been historical moments where a bad president won't get reelected because of how their administrations affected people (people like Hoover had a single term because of how badly they performed in office).
But, considering how we have people who voted for a dead gorilla and a name of alcohol, I wouldn't be surprised if we do get a disastrous 8 year of Trump Administration.
Exactly... It's not like 4 years from now republicans are going to bail on trump and present another candidate against him. For the next 4 years republicans are simply going to go along with whatever trump does. I can't even imagine what trump would have to do to get his party to stop working with him. Trump could actually nuke something and I am willing to bet a buck most republicans in congress would simply spread their legs for lord president trump and say "we had no choice. We simply had no choice". So 4 years from now the election will be between trump and someone from the democrat party whom people actually like that gathers everyone in the left and makes them show up to vote en mass against this insanity. The democrat party seems to be resisting the necessary changes for such a thing to happen (specifically bernie and warren) though.
--- Double Post Merged, ---
And now trump, the guy who never settles and always gets a good deal settled his fake university case for 25 million dollars. I guess you could argue settling for that is a good deal compared to what he would have paid if he went to trial....
 

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I can see Trump being reelected, many of his policies are ones that Americans care about. If he generates results, why wouldnt he be reelected?

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I dont understand why people become so enraged over this. Undocumented illegals are stealing opportunities for many of us natural born Americans, and worst yet, our taxes are being used to support them in ways that are harming us. We mustn forget that they are also security liabilities since they are undocumented and entered our country illegally. I hope he does secure our borders and actually does generate a registry of people from countries that harbor radical islamic terrorists.
 

xi0

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The left should have started working towards impeding everything trump promised from the second it seemed like hillary might not win the presidency).
And when was that exactly? No one predicted that he would win.
 

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So apparently, the people that Trump are appointing are all white supremacists who in one way or another would set us back socially and create a country full of bigotry. One allegedly is waging a war against Islam and calling it political ideal (completely untrue), one is dealing with DoJ and would probably prevent them from sharing bad reports about police like Baltimore and Ferguson police departments targeting black people, and the other is a former editor or something of Breitbart.

US is seriously fucked if the republicans get power without anyone contesting anything they do. Ugh, at this point extreme liberals sound better than extreme conservatives.
 

kkck

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And when was that exactly? No one predicted that he would win.
What does that matter? It's not even the point of my post (which is that right now is the moment to prepare to start opposing his campaign promises). It's foolish and asinine to think he can't get those things or that he won't at least try.
 

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What does that matter? It's not even the point of my post (which is that right now is the moment to prepare to start opposing his campaign promises). It's foolish and asinine to think he can't get those things or that he won't at least try.
Well, my point is I don't think Dems were prepared to lose in all aspects, much less Clinton lose to Trump.

I'm just not sure what you mean about preparing to oppose his campaign promises. They're already doing that. But I'm not sure how effectively they're going to oppose what he wants to do when congress is controlled by the GOP as well. You sort of have to hope and pray that being "obstructionist" will work for them and not against them in the midterm elections.
 

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What makes dems losing even worse is that they're blaming everyone but themselves. Chose a shitty candidate and tried everything to make sure she won, didn't try to appeal to wide demographics, and didn't do much to fight Hillary's negative rep other than "better than Trump!"
 

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What makes dems losing even worse is that they're blaming everyone but themselves. Chose a shitty candidate and tried everything to make sure she won, didn't try to appeal to wide demographics, and didn't do much to fight Hillary's negative rep other than "better than Trump!"
Clinton was not a shitty candidate in any shape or form. She got character assassinated into one.
That is something that should not be forgotten.
 

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Clinton was not a shitty candidate in any shape or form. She got character assassinated into one.
That is something that should not be forgotten.
Honestly, I agree with the notion that she got character assassinated. But the main result from that was distracting from her actual flaws as a candidate. Sure, some of those were brought up but what ultimately destroyed her was a bunch of either fake or vastly exaggerated scandals. I mean, people still blame her for bhengazzi and by now I have ran out of ways to point out how astoundingly stupid that is. The emails was a done deal. Even after comey reopened the investigation it seemed extremely unlikely that he would find the extraordinary evidence required for there to be a reasonable chance of prosecution. And yet that hurt her more than, say, her connections to big donors or her lack of an interest to fight to get money out of politics. And of course, none of those are issues where trump had a moral edge over her. Trump claimed his campaign was self funded which was a lie and begged for donations at every turn. When denied he acted like a baby and basically said he didn't want the money anyways. And then republicans more or less aligned with trump and trump got donation money anyways. And not a few days passed and trump after he won and he was already joining with his donors. Hillary, for all her flaws, would have done a better job than trump. Heck, she might have even done a good job as a whole (and the US wouldn't be in the midst of reopening muslim registrations because "they have no choice"). But the reality remains that even without the smear and conspiracy theories against her, she is a very flawed candidate. If anything, the fact that she is so viscerally hated, even if for all the wrong reasons. In the end she simply failed to make the point that trump quite literally one upped her on every one of her flaws (and then some).

And of course, using the allmighty power of hindsight... It's quite clear the biggest issue here was that hillary's campaign was complacent. She had a number of states she never campaigned on. She was so sure she would win that her campaign shifted to trying to help her gain ground on congress. She completely stopped trying to appeal to bernie supporters and instead tried to present herself as a reasonable center alternative. FOR REPUBLICANS. Sure, a number of republicans who have worked with her have at times complemented at how competent she is. And I even made the point that republicans feared her presidency because of how terrifyingly competent she is. But republicans voters hate her. And I don't mean hate in the way garfield hates raisins. I mean hatred in the way jews hate hitler. Or perhaps more appropriately they hate her the way Hitler hated jews. Hatred that a disturbing number of them would gladly use their second amendment rights to unceremoniously execute her and leave her corpse to be pissed on for the rest of eternity and skullfucked on the bullethole. I mean, her own would be voters didn't like her and he expected her opponents voters to rally to her because trump was bad? She said it herself, half of trump's voters are deplorable and the other half is disillusioned with the establishment. Of course she is not gonna get them, she is the establishment embodied (not to mention that is the one thing she said that EVER caught on and people repeated and instead of owning it she backtracked and apologized). And while she campaigned to get votes from those people, she completely ignored people whom she could have conscionably had a chance to win over which is bernie supporters. For one thing, she went with a democrat as generic as herself for a running mate. Not that there was anything wrong with the guy as a whole but I followed the election almost excruciatingly and I already forgot his name. All she had to do to win bernie supporters over was pick warren or bernie as running mates. But of course she wouldn't do that, with them being there there would have actually been a way for progressive to demand from her the concessions the democrat platform made and either of them would have fought her center policies rather than support them. And you'd think that'd be all but you'd be wrong. The media assured us trump had no chance. Democrats assured everyone that trump had no chance. Which is bafflingly and astoundingly stupid. That's not what you say when you want people to show up to vote for you. Democrats should have been screaming at every innocent bystander they ran into that trump had an actual possibility of winning. That a 10% chance of him winning way 10% too much. Hell, they should have been god dammed terrified that trump had a 0.00000001% chance of winning. This election was hillary's to lose, not for trump to win. And more than fake news and conspiracy theories, she lost it because of democrat hubris,specially her own.
 
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xi0

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Clinton was not a shitty candidate in any shape or form. She got character assassinated into one.
That is something that should not be forgotten.
I don't see how you can blame this on character assassination. Good candidates can withstand such things. At the end of the day, Trump did not gain new voters (he got less votes than Romney did), and Clinton lost them. If that doesn't make you a poor candidate, then what definition can be used?
 

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I don't see how you can blame this on character assassination. Good candidates can withstand such things. At the end of the day, Trump did not gain new voters (he got less votes than Romney did), and Clinton lost them. If that doesn't make you a poor candidate, then what definition can be used?
I don't see how that is a point 0.o
Clinton lost these votes due to character assassination. Because lots of people actually thought she is corrupt and whatever.
There were plenty of other nominees who had ties to banks and whatnot, but those never got called out for it, and if they did, never to this degree.
Can you present me any other candidate in american history who got accused of complete fabrications like these except for obama?

And yes, Obama was young and fresh and could withstand those (and even then it was less shit flinged at him than onto clinton).
But with that, you basically say that every establishment candidate is a bad choice.
Which would make almost every candidate ever a bad choice.
 

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I don't see how that is a point 0.o
Clinton lost these votes due to character assassination. Because lots of people actually thought she is corrupt and whatever.
There were plenty of other nominees who had ties to banks and whatnot, but those never got called out for it, and if they did, never to this degree.
Can you present me any other candidate in american history who got accused of complete fabrications like these except for obama?

And yes, Obama was young and fresh and could withstand those (and even then it was less shit flinged at him than onto clinton).
But with that, you basically say that every establishment candidate is a bad choice.
Which would make almost every candidate ever a bad choice.
Well, but she is corrupt. Perhaps not more than others (though the leaked emails are crippling). The only point that can be made in this regard is that people completely overlooked trump's blatant corruption which even easily outclasses hillary's while in turn hillary got shreded for real and fake things. It's almost laughable that the stuff she took the most damage from were straight up fake or vastly exagerated. The emails went into detail regarding how the foundation was tied to their paid speeches and whatnot but people focused on bhegazzi (anyone who still thinks this is a thing is in no uncertain terms a moron) and the damn emails (which was bad but lets be honest, this was never that big a deal).
 

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Well, but she is corrupt. Perhaps not more than others (though the leaked emails are crippling). The only point that can be made in this regard is that people completely overlooked trump's blatant corruption which even easily outclasses hillary's while in turn hillary got shreded for real and fake things. It's almost laughable that the stuff she took the most damage from were straight up fake or vastly exagerated. The emails went into detail regarding how the foundation was tied to their paid speeches and whatnot but people focused on bhegazzi (anyone who still thinks this is a thing is in no uncertain terms a moron) and the damn emails (which was bad but lets be honest, this was never that big a deal).
I disagree on her being corrupt in a sense that she would have to pay any obligations to rich people.
What she said in the speeches she gave was actually valuable intelligence for a lot of different interest groups.
There is no single group she 'owes' to.
And yes, most people do not actually know what stood in the emails and want to talk about 'pizza with cheese'.

Simply: You cannot tell me you are anti establishment, anti rich people and anti corruption and vote for trump, who is all three of these things.
 

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Russia is only scary when you are afraid.
I don't agree with you on much, but this I agree on.

It's ridiculous and pathetic that politicians everywhere seem to piss their pants at the thought of Putin moving his little finger.
Like, that war in Syria? It should have been ended right when it began. Somebody should have sent an army to take down the government and stop them from killing their own people.
But oh no! They were friends with Russia! Big brother Putin could get angry and wage war on whoever dared interfere. So nobody did anything.
The result: It's years later and people are still dying over there. Islamists are rejoicing in the lawlessness and violence over there. Great job, world!

You know, if only for my own sake, I want to give our European politicians the benefit of the doubt that they would at least fight back if their own country was attacked. But the way they have been acting up until now, somehow my imagination sees them throwing themselves on the ground with their hands on their heads shouting: "OH NOOO! DON'T SHOOT AT US! AAAAAAAAHHHHHHH!!!!"
XD

(Edit: reformatting :x)
 
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kkck

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I disagree on her being corrupt in a sense that she would have to pay any obligations to rich people.
What she said in the speeches she gave was actually valuable intelligence for a lot of different interest groups.
There is no single group she 'owes' to.
And yes, most people do not actually know what stood in the emails and want to talk about 'pizza with cheese'.

Simply: You cannot tell me you are anti establishment, anti rich people and anti corruption and vote for trump, who is all three of these things.
Well, but she has taken money from god knows how many groups. Can you honestly tell me you would expect hillary to take action against wall street and their corruption when she has taken literally tens of millions of dollars from them in the form of fees from her speeches and on top of that gave millions of dollars to her campaign?
http://apps.washingtonpost.com/g/do...ngs-raised-money-for-clintons-interests/2203/

That is the email I am talking about... That shows perfectly well how the foundation was connected to the clintons for profit activities. This is blatant corruption. Of course, this would also be pretty strong evidence that the clintons did not use foundation money for their own lifestyle but the whole thing is pretty disturbing. This should be more than enough to completely destroy any candidate's hopes for a presidency. Or any elected position... But we live in a world were people are actual morons, scream benghazi and ignore the proof of blatant corruption that they otherwise only find in their wet dreams.

Now, this is not to say trump was a better alternative. Trump is a corrupt and more easily bought politician whose incompetence is so astounding and obvious he shouldn't be trusted with sharp objects. He conned a country just as he conned his casino investors and his fake university students. It took him a day to start meeting with the donors who bought him and get a cabinet made either of overt bigots and insane establishment figures.
 

xi0

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And yes, Obama was young and fresh and could withstand those (and even then it was less shit flinged at him than onto clinton).
Mmm, I don't see how there was less shit flung at Obama honestly. The guy gave a lengthy speech about the whole Rev. Wright nonsense. People denied his citizenship despite enough proof to the contrary for years. The list goes on and on.

But at no point were concerns about his viability ever created in effect, by his own campaign or party. Wikileaks seemed to have destroyed whatever chance she had, and she wasn't universally well-liked before that either. So much so that a pathological liar reality tv star with no experience or semblance of a clue was elected over her. Her support from the electorate at large was tepid at best. So I don't know how her campaign can be referred to as anything other than poor.
 

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This would be funnier if it wasn't exactly what we were all thinking anyways:
 

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Republican president already causes things to improve from Obama. This is going to be a great four years.
 

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Republican president already causes things to improve from Obama. This is going to be a great four years.
this is just the beginning, cant wait to see what Trump will be doing as president.
 
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