American Politics

[Aonori]

Trump even frigging made the statement that he wants zones in which 'syrian civillians cannot be attacked by air attacks'.....so....no fly zones.
But ya, if clinton woulda opted for it, it woulda been WW3.

He put Rich bankers into important positions (including a guy from goldman sachs) but clinton is evil because she held speeches for that bank some years ago.
He also shut down all regulations Obama imposed on Banks.
But ya, drain the swamp. And his stupid supporters still believe it.

Honestly, can we at least now all agree that a pathetic orange clown was elected into office that was the objectively worse choice?

I can only hope that judges will show him some limits before he actually pulls through with his, and i will call it like that because i legitimately think it is, fascist remodeling of the state?

It is no joke if the president of an important country like that declares war on the press and even judges and justifies it by having 'the people' behind him (while running a hostile rhetoric against the part of the people who is against him).


Trump is an idiot, but the fact that he is ridicoulus should not camouflage the fact that he is factually dangerous, whether due to his own agenda or those that stand behind him in the shadows.

--- Double Post Merged, Feb 5, 2017, Original Post Date: Feb 5, 2017 ---

okay, so it looks like the Muslim ban will get in fron of surpreme court where currently 4 democrat and 4 republican judges reside.

I am not sure whether trump can get his scotus in before this decision will happen, but if he cannot,, th emuslim ban might be off the table.

--- Double Post Merged, Feb 5, 2017 ---

What you are basically saying here is 'stop protesting if your rights get taken away and someone attacks judges and the free press, or you get shot and you are responsible for being shot'.

Are you not aware that if people would stop protesting, fascists get free reign over that country?
How can you blame the people who are legitimately afraid of their country being taken over by nazis?

Thats rich, what nazis are you speaking of? At best, Trump is going for regular proteccionism, the cops arent even responding violently to any of these protests whatsoever (some just leave the protesters alone for the most part) if Trump was actually a nazi he would reinforce the military and the cops authority and have them go ham on these protests such thing isnt happening though and LMAO are muslims the new jews now? Trump isnt giving anywhere near of a treatment to muslims as what hitler did to the jews and hitler wanted the jews money to begin with, what does trump win for persecuting muslims? (Which he isnt doing to begin with) the travel ban is meant to last until trump and his guys can pick whats going on with the muslims that are entering the country and it's meant to be lift at some point however I already see people trying to halt trump's national security measures, ok, it's in their rights but that doesnt excuse the fact the travel ban is necessary for better assessments of the situation.

 

[GrySun]

It's so hilarious when people call it a "muslim ban" as if you can't enter the US if you're muslim As well as all the fear mongering doomsayers.
This will be very enjoyable and entertaining 8 years to spectate.

 

[xi0]

It wasn't a "Muslim ban" -


It's definitely a shining example of his administration's incompetence and at best, it's pure political posturing. But to attack it from the basis of discrimination isn't even necessary IMO. It makes no sense and would probably accomplish next to nothing from a practical standpoint, but nothing sells newspapers more than the type of headlines that have appeared in the wake of it.

 

[shionoro]

Thats rich, what nazis are you speaking of? At best, Trump is going for regular proteccionism, the cops arent even responding violently to any of these protests whatsoever (some just leave the protesters alone for the most part) if Trump was actually a nazi he would reinforce the military and the cops authority and have them go ham on these protests such thing isnt happening though and LMAO are muslims the new jews now? Trump isnt giving anywhere near of a treatment to muslims as what hitler did to the jews and hitler wanted the jews money to begin with, what does trump win for persecuting muslims? (Which he isnt doing to begin with) the travel ban is meant to last until trump and his guys can pick whats going on with the muslims that are entering the country and it's meant to be lift at some point however I already see people trying to halt trump's national security measures, ok, it's in their rights but that doesnt excuse the fact the travel ban is necessary for better assessments of the situation.

Nazis like Bannon, Nazis like Yiannopoulos.

Regular protectionism? Trump is rallying people against his own courts.
Against Judges.
That is what he does. He appoints people who provably said the want to destroy the state.

That is what he does, that is what the people he appointed do.
And you are clapping.

He installs an unconstitutional muslim ban, then court rules that is is unconstitutional, then trump says judges are REPONSIBLE for the next terror strike that might happen.
Even tho judges do not even decide, they just interpret the law.
But Trump even questioned the legitimacy of the judge (and anyone opposing him).
That is bona fide fascism, he tries to instill fear into the judges and other parts of the state that oppose him.
.
And you see the problem in the people protesting against that.

And no, a travel ban is not necessary.
It is total bullshit. The US had vetting systems exactly for that, the toughest in the world.
And people who were vetted in that STILL cannot access the country now, after they went through a SEVERAL YEAR vetting process.
How can you even rationalize that?

THe country is slowly slipping into a fasicist or at least autocrat reality and you still are worried about imaginary terrorists from countries from which no single terrorist ever came to the US.

--- Double Post Merged, Feb 6, 2017, Original Post Date: Feb 6, 2017 ---

It's so hilarious when people call it a "muslim ban" as if you can't enter the US if you're muslim As well as all the fear mongering doomsayers.
This will be very enjoyable and entertaining 8 years to spectate.

How is that hilarious if people who vent through a yearlong vetting process and who helped US soldiers or even have a greencard cannot access the country because some countries got banned due to those being predominantly muslim?
How is that not a muslim ban?

YOu find people who die due to a measure like that entertaining? Really?

--- Double Post Merged, Feb 6, 2017 ---

You can hardly complain about a thing being called a 'muslim ban' if the people who installed it called it a muslim ban and only used terrirories instead of religion (and provably said so) because that is harder to be overturned.

 

[GrySun]

Nazis like Bannon, Nazis like Yiannopoulos.

Regular protectionism? Trump is rallying people against his own courts.
Against Judges.
That is what he does. He appoints people who provably said the want to destroy the state.

That is what he does, that is what the people he appointed do.
And you are clapping.

He installs an unconstitutional muslim ban, then court rules that is is unconstitutional, then trump says judges are REPONSIBLE for the next terror strike that might happen.
Even tho judges do not even decide, they just interpret the law.
But Trump even questioned the legitimacy of the judge (and anyone opposing him).
That is bona fide fascism, he tries to instill fear into the judges and other parts of the state that oppose him.
.
And you see the problem in the people protesting against that.

And no, a travel ban is not necessary.
It is total bullshit. The US had vetting systems exactly for that, the toughest in the world.
And people who were vetted in that STILL cannot access the country now, after they went through a SEVERAL YEAR vetting process.
How can you even rationalize that?

THe country is slowly slipping into a fasicist or at least autocrat reality and you still are worried about imaginary terrorists from countries from which no single terrorist ever came to the US.

--- Double Post Merged, Feb 6, 2017, Original Post Date: Feb 6, 2017 ---

How is that hilarious if people who vent through a yearlong vetting process and who helped US soldiers or even have a greencard cannot access the country because some countries got banned due to those being predominantly muslim?
How is that not a muslim ban?

YOu find people who die due to a measure like that entertaining? Really?

--- Double Post Merged, Feb 6, 2017 ---

You can hardly complain about a thing being called a 'muslim ban' if the people who installed it called it a muslim ban and only used terrirories instead of religion (and provably said so) because that is harder to be overturned.

I'll be honest with you, it's quite hard taking you seriously with all the nazi-calling and overdramatizing about dictatorship and fascism and many other things that aren't there.

What do the other affected people have to do with what I said? I'm calling hilarious and laughing about people like you who call it a muslim ban, which is only possible to say if you're deceived by title-reading all your information or by pure ignorance. The ban was obviously rushed since it bans people from those countries regardless of their work and life situation, for which some cases should get exemptions.

Which people die because of this ban? Please enlighten me, hopefully it's not more fake stories as I've heard from you many times before. I recall a story about an Iraq mother who died in transit, which was revealed to be fake. And I don't see why people from those banned countries would absolutely need to go to the US. Some work related cases do exist, but that's nitpicking a handful of people and not a major concern affecting more than the vacation/tourist plans of their population.

 

[Aonori]

I'll be honest with you, it's quite hard taking you seriously with all the nazi-calling and overdramatizing about dictatorship and fascism and many other things that aren't there.

What do the other affected people have to do with what I said? I'm calling hilarious and laughing about people like you who call it a muslim ban, which is only possible to say if you're deceived by title-reading all your information or by pure ignorance. The ban was obviously rushed since it bans people from those countries regardless of their work and life situation, for which some cases should get exemptions.

Which people die because of this ban? Please enlighten me, hopefully it's not more fake stories as I've heard from you many times before. I recall a story about an Iraq mother who died in transit, which was revealed to be fake. And I don't see why people from those banned countries would absolutely need to go to the US. Some work related cases do exist, but that's nitpicking a handful of people and not a major concern affecting more than the vacation/tourist plans of their population.

Yeah I agree with you on the ban, people are overhyping the crap out of it, also I dont get how can trump be a nazi and not have the muslims trying to escape from the US, but instead they want to go to the US, thats the strangest type of nazism if I ever seen one like this before and definitely not just proteccionism whatsoever!

 

[A.ulq]

The outrage caused by Trump's recent ban is understandable given the humanitarian implications.However, one has to ask where was the outrage when the refugee crisis was being created, where was the righteous indignation when Obama was demolishing those countries.

 

[shionoro]

I'll be honest with you, it's quite hard taking you seriously with all the nazi-calling and overdramatizing about dictatorship and fascism and many other things that aren't there.

But it is there.
Flat and simple. You can easily watch the initial stages of fascism in germany and see the similarities.
The democracy in the US is stronger, but the steps that trump is trying to take here are similar.

And then i will be honest with you too: It is hard to take someone seriously who sees no problem in a president who doubts the legitimacy of his judges and rallies his supperts against them.

What do the other affected people have to do with what I said? I'm calling hilarious and laughing about people like you who call it a muslim ban, which is only possible to say if you're deceived by title-reading all your information or by pure ignorance. The ban was obviously rushed since it bans people from those countries regardless of their work and life situation, for which some cases should get exemptions.

Oh, so Trump didnt call it a muslim ban? Please enlighten me about how he called it initially then, and how he reasoned why he is using terrirotires now instead religion.
Then tell me how it makes sense, if it is not a muslim ban, that suddenly there was talk about still taking christians from the corresponding countries.

It is only possible by pure ignorance to call it anything BUT a muslim ban, because the intention behind the ban is and was always to keep muslims out.
Except rich muslims from countries trump does business with, sure, but the whole ban was at any point reasoned by trump about muslims coming in.
He HIMSELF said he only did the hassle with the territories because that is harder to overturn.

The whole ban is a farce because it begins and ends with unconstitutional populism.

Which people die because of this ban? Please enlighten me, hopefully it's not more fake stories as I've heard from you many times before. I recall a story about an Iraq mother who died in transit, which was revealed to be fake. And I don't see why people from those banned countries would absolutely need to go to the US. Some work related cases do exist, but that's nitpicking a handful of people and not a major concern affecting more than the vacation/tourist plans of their population.

For starters: People who helped US troops in iraq and afghanistan who then had to flee the coutnry once the US was out due to hostilities.
I do not utter any fake stories here, or which were it?

So tell me then: Do you really doubt that people form iraq or afghanistan who helped US troops back then are not in danger ina country in which the taliban are getting more power by day?

BUt hey, that is nitpicking. Or the people who went through a year of vetting and took every beaurocratic turn to get into the US, some of them being in danger in their homecountry. They are nitpicking too, those fuckers can go to hell, right?

--- Double Post Merged, Feb 6, 2017, Original Post Date: Feb 6, 2017 ---

The outrage caused by Trump's recent ban is understandable given the humanitarian implications.However, one has to ask where was the outrage when the refugee crisis was being created, where was the righteous indignation when Obama was demolishing those countries.

Obama didnt.
That is why it was not there.

--- Double Post Merged, Feb 6, 2017 ---

Yeah I agree with you on the ban, people are overhyping the crap out of it, also I dont get how can trump be a nazi and not have the muslims trying to escape from the US, but instead they want to go to the US, thats the strangest type of nazism if I ever seen one like this before and definitely not just proteccionism whatsoever!

People ar eoverhyping the fact that a president issues an unconstitutional ban which is created to ponder to racist fears of muslims (which the president supports) and then attacks the judge who overturns that shit?

So you do not see a problem in the president starting to accuse judges of being responsible for terror attacks because they dont back down when he shits on the constitution?
Really?

And guess why they want to come to the US. Little hint: Because lots of them are in danger. Of dying.
And some of the are greencard holders and LIVE THERE.
Is that enough of a reason?

 

[kkck]

It wasn't a "Muslim ban" -


It's definitely a shining example of his administration's incompetence and at best, it's pure political posturing. But to attack it from the basis of discrimination isn't even necessary IMO. It makes no sense and would probably accomplish next to nothing from a practical standpoint, but nothing sells newspapers more than the type of headlines that have appeared in the wake of it.

I am not so sure that it is incorrect to refer to this as a muslim ban even in light of what the video points out. For one thing, this whole muslim ban thing started due to trump himself. He was the one who started with this whole muslim travel shutdown to begin with. He was the one whom made this about islam and refugees potentially being terrorist. Even his supporters view this as trump fulfilling his campaign promise. Rather than incompetence, this feels like outright trolling. And I wouldn't put it past the administration to set up this kind of trolling to begin with, good old steve bannon is there after all. Basically they set up the media with what looks like the fulfillment of trump's muslim ban promise and then point out its not actually that. With that in light, there are several things to consider:

1.- Lets say the video is correct. Doesn't that mean that trump's muslim ban is still coming?
2.- If we assume this is the muslim ban, does that mean trump lied about the muslim ban to begin with?

Either way, this is all very disturbing.

 

[A.ulq]

--- Double Post Merged, Feb 6, 2017, Original Post Date: Feb 6, 2017 ---

Obama didnt.
That is why it was not there.

--- Double Post Merged, Feb 6, 2017 ---

In 2011 he sent the CIA to backup the rebel groups in Libya which ended up having links with Al-Qaeda and then used air strikes to finish the job. Also, in 2012 he began to provide weapons, money and training to rebel groups in Syria in an attempt to overthrow Assad. And then there is Yemen which he quietly supported Saudi's bombing campaign over a year before finally getting his hands dirty and launching direct air strikes last year. So I think it's safe to say that Obama is responsible for this mess.

 

[Knight of Stalwart Heart]

The outrage caused by Trump's recent ban is understandable given the humanitarian implications.However, one has to ask where was the outrage when the refugee crisis was being created, where was the righteous indignation when Obama was demolishing those countries.

Trump isn't all that better than Obama when it comes to this.So...Trump raids Yemen and imposes a refugee ban? Who's worse here really?

 

[kkck]

The outrage caused by Trump's recent ban is understandable given the humanitarian implications.However, one has to ask where was the outrage when the refugee crisis was being created, where was the righteous indignation when Obama was demolishing those countries.

The issue there though, is that the countries in question were not peaceful before the US got involved. He got into siria after the civil war started. The way I see it, there would be syrian refugees either way, though it would depend on how brutal the conflict got. The only scenario in which there wouldn't be refugees if the US didn't get involved in that country is if assad would have defeated opposition much sooner and thus retained power.

 

[shionoro]

In 2011 he sent the CIA to backup the rebel groups in Libya which ended up having links with Al-Qaeda and then used air strikes to finish the job. Also, in 2012 he began to provide weapons, money and training to rebel groups in Syria in an attempt to overthrow Assad. And then there is Yemen which he quietly supported Saudi's bombing campaign over a year before finally getting his hands dirty and launching direct air strikes last year. So I think it's safe to say that Obama is responsible for this mess.

THe US did support rebel groups in syria.
Some of these rebel groups had links to islamic terrorism, that is correct, but this did not kick off the syria crisis.
If anything, it could have made it end faster (because the majority of the rebel groups were not islamic terrorists).
For the better or worse: It had no fruition, so how was obama responsible for the refugees?

Acting like the syria crisis Obama's doing is not true in any shape or form.

America SHOULD support the groups it wants to see in power in chaotic sitations.
They knew a civil war will break out. Having contact to parties which might emerge as winner is important, and you will not get to have that contact without giving them something in return.
The conflict itself is independend from the US.

If anything, the US were the ones with the kurdish actually fighting ISIS and thus bringing at least some stability back.

Yemen war is inexscusable and is only done to keep saudi arabia as an ally, you will not hear anything else from me about the yemen war.
But it is not like the yemeni refugees are coming to either the west or the US.

--- Double Post Merged, Feb 6, 2017, Original Post Date: Feb 6, 2017 ---

The issue there though, is that the countries in question were not peaceful before the US got involved. He got into siria after the civil war started. The way I see it, there would be syrian refugees either way, though it would depend on how brutal the conflict got. The only scenario in which there wouldn't be refugees if the US didn't get involved in that country is if assad would have defeated opposition much sooner and thus retained power.

Even then, you would have lots of people fleeing because it is clear that assad is going to take revenge at some groups.
Also, ISIS is not a rebel group.
ISIS and the rebels are different groups with different goals.
Assad fought the rebels, not isis, you would still have isis in iraq and the syrian rural areas, enough to kick off at least some of the refugees.

 

[kkck]

Even then, you would have lots of people fleeing because it is clear that assad is going to take revenge at some groups.
Also, ISIS is not a rebel group.
ISIS and the rebels are different groups with different goals.
Assad fought the rebels, not isis, you would still have isis in iraq and the syrian rural areas, enough to kick off at least some of the refugees.

Well, yeah, dictators like assad are not the type to let bygones be bygones. I do doubt that in that scenario there would have been as many refugees though. And yeah, I am aware that ISIS is not related to the rebels and all that stuff. However it is worth noting that Assad is indeed anti-ISIS at least. The issue here in the end would be whether syria would have been better off had the US not supported the rebels to begin with and assad had simply regained control through a brutal regime supported by russia. I would question that being a good scenario. Foreign policy wise at least it would have been a defeat for the US agenda at least.

 

[Aonori]

@shionoro, the fact judges are undermining trump here, still remains, they are clearly pushing forward with obama's rushed refugee programs which trump doesnt agree with, they are just sabotaging trump's campaign promises whom the majority of the american people voted him for getting done, this is undermining american democracy at it's finest.

Muslims are in danger of dying? Yes some are, but many arent in the middle east anymore many are moving through intermediary countries to go into the US and whats rich here is that Obama forced through legislation nearing the end of his term to have 2k refugees to the US via Australia knowing full well such refugees would emigrate into the US during trump's presidency, and the dumbasses of the Australian government didnt even had the common sense to stop such nonsense, now they have 2k refugees in there and you know what? Have them keep them, these fucking refugee intermediaries need to learn when to stop and when to accept.

If the so called "muslim ban" is banned that is a complete undermining of president trump's campaign promises and allows Obama rushed in refugees to go into the US with poor background check and sabotage trump's policies, the judge deserves to suffer the consequences from this if it results in Isis terror attacks and trump seriously needs to keep on suing the MSM bigots who spread fake news and the supporters of riots on the US, or else he will be treated as a weak president just like Obama was on his G20 meeting and deliver 0% of what he promised on his campaign not because he went back on his word but because of a bunch of radical globalists, like to undermine the rights of the american people.

 

[shionoro]

@shionoro, the fact judges are undermining trump here, still remains, they are clearly pushing forward with obama's rushed refugee programs which trump doesnt agree with, they are just sabotaging trump's campaign promises whom the majority of the american people voted him for getting done, this is undermining american democracy at it's finest.

Muslims are in danger of dying? Yes some are, but many arent in the middle east anymore many are moving through intermediary countries to go into the US and whats rich here is that Obama forced through legislation nearing the end of his term to have 2k refugees to the US via Australia knowing full well such refugees would emigrate into the US during trump's presidency, and the dumbasses of the Australian government didnt even had the common sense to stop such nonsense, now they have 2k refugees in there and you know what? Have them keep them, these fucking refugee intermediaries need to learn when to stop and when to accept.

If the so called "muslim ban" is banned that is a complete undermining of president trump's campaign promises and allows Obama rushed in refugees to go into the US with poor background check and sabotage trump's policies, the judge deserves to suffer the consequences from this if it results in Isis terror attacks and trump seriously needs to keep on suing the MSM bigots who spread fake news and the supporters of riots on the US, or else he will be treated as a weak president just like Obama was on his G20 meeting and deliver 0% of what he promised on his campaign not because he went back on his word but because of a bunch of radical globalists, like to undermine the rights of the american people.

What?
Judges undermine trump by ruling due to the current law?
Do you even know how obama was always blocked without crying about it?

HOw can you say such a thing? What does that REPUBLICAN judge even have to do with Obama?
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...e-who-halted-trumps-immigration-ban/97491632/

This is the judge in question who was appointed in time of Bush.

ANd when did Obama rush in refugees? The US didnt even take signifcant aboumts of it.
And they had the toughest vetting system of the entire world?
How can you say these complete untruths with a straight face?

--- Double Post Merged, Feb 6, 2017, Original Post Date: Feb 6, 2017 ---

Well, yeah, dictators like assad are not the type to let bygones be bygones. I do doubt that in that scenario there would have been as many refugees though. And yeah, I am aware that ISIS is not related to the rebels and all that stuff. However it is worth noting that Assad is indeed anti-ISIS at least. The issue here in the end would be whether syria would have been better off had the US not supported the rebels to begin with and assad had simply regained control through a brutal regime supported by russia. I would question that being a good scenario. Foreign policy wise at least it would have been a defeat for the US agenda at least.

I agree, the number would probably be smaller.
The thing is: I dont think the US supporting some rebel groups initially did one little thing. It amounted to nothing at all.
They wanted to get control and intel by doing that, but the didnt. The rebel movement was too chaotic and fell apart, and the didnt get a lot from the US.

The best thing the US coulda done (but it has to be said that Maliki through them out first) would have been going into iraq again as quickly as they could to defeat ISIS there.
But there was no political ground to do that, the US was tired of having troops there and Maliki didnt want them , too.

 

[Philia]

How can you say these complete untruths with a straight face?.

These are alternate facts

 

[SharkBait]

In what world would his actions lead to impeachment, he's done nothing wrong and its not like no other president has their orders face judicial review.

Worst, yet another democrat unable to name a key city for terrorism, clearly she does not have the safety of Americans at the front of her mind.

 

[Onyx Darkmatter]

https://www.congress.gov/bill/115th-congress/house-bill/861

I'm not surprised a moron from the FYP party decides to introduce this.
U.S. going to turn into another China while China rises in power for the next couple decades.

 

[SharkBait]

https://www.congress.gov/bill/115th-congress/house-bill/861

I'm not surprised a moron from the FYP party decides to introduce this.
U.S. going to turn into another China while China rises in power for the next couple decades.

What role does the EPA have? Do you really think its necessary and not other government entity can accomplish what it does?