American Politics

z.5

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Not gonna lie, I'd definitely be against them kneeling if they didn't have a good reason along with annoyed with the people whining about it, but their reason is good.
Why?!?
What does it matter what their reasons are?

They're sportsmen, what does it matter if they 'love their country' (or whatever BS them not saluting a symbol, like the good little patriots they are supposed to be) or not?
All that should matter is how good their game is.

Priorities man, priorities.
 
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xi0

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Not gonna lie, I'd definitely be against them kneeling if they didn't have a good reason along with annoyed with the people whining about it, but their reason is good. Racial equality and stopping police brutality. What's pretty annoying and fucked up is how people keep saying they should focus on black-on-black violence first, as if they've not been doing that for decades.
I think you're missing the point really, as far as my attitude goes. Why they do what they do doesn't mean shit to me, and it really shouldn't to anyone else either. Regardless of what you think about their position, kneeling during a song means next to nothing to me, tbh.
 

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Ah, I have been wondering why kneeling specifically means anything. How does kneeling mean you are protesting police brutality? it had to come from somewhere.... Otherwise kneeling during the US national anthem would mean... more loyalty to it?
 

xi0

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Ah, I have been wondering why kneeling specifically means anything. How does kneeling mean you are protesting police brutality? it had to come from somewhere.... Otherwise kneeling during the US national anthem would mean... more loyalty to it?
It became kneeling later. The initial controversy came when Kaepernick sat on the bench during the anthem instead of standing. I guess he either offered the motivation after the game or was asked why he did it since there is footage of him doing it. It became kneeling due to the reaction to it IMO. I guess kneeling isn't seen as "disrespectful" compared to ignoring the anthem entirely, but doing something other than standing and removing your hat still signifies protest.
 

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Why?!?
What does it matter what their reasons are?

They're sportsmen, what does it matter if they 'love their country' (or whatever BS them not saluting a symbol, like a good little patriots they are supposed to be) or not?
All that should matter is how good their game is.

Priorities man, priorities.
Nationalism and patriotism.

And because kneeling is distracting and shit, as proven. Otherwise as long as they don't insult or attack USA, I don't care.

It apparently doesn't matter as Kaepernick plays better than some quarterbacks but still can't get hired.
I think you're missing the point really, as far as my attitude goes. Why they do what they do doesn't mean shit to me, and it really shouldn't to anyone else either. Regardless of what you think about their position, kneeling during a song means next to nothing to me, tbh.
How am I missing the point, then?
Ah, I have been wondering why kneeling specifically means anything. How does kneeling mean you are protesting police brutality? it had to come from somewhere.... Otherwise kneeling during the US national anthem would mean... more loyalty to it?
It doesn't mean you're protesting police brutality, it depends on why you're kneeling. In this case, Kaepernick and other players have said they kneel/knelt for black lives and for equality.

No as people stand during the anthem, unless they're in their homes. Then they'll likely sit and hopefully not annoy others.
 

xi0

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How am I missing the point, then?
Because you're still making it about why he's doing it. My point is that his reasons for doing it are irrelevant, and he shouldn't even have the opportunity to do so because the National Anthem being played before domestic sporting events serves no real purpose. I mean, this is even more evident in the MLB, when something like half the players aren't even from the USA. I'd much rather have home teams play their state anthem or team song or something.

In this case, Kaepernick and other players have said they kneel/knelt for black lives and for equality.
No, the actual act of kneeling only began after he got attention/scrutiny for sitting on the bench.
 

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Because you're still making it about why he's doing it. My point is that his reasons for doing it are irrelevant, and he shouldn't even have the opportunity to do so because the National Anthem being played before domestic sporting events serves no real purpose. I mean, this is even more evident in the MLB, when something like half the players aren't even from the USA. I'd much rather have home teams play their state anthem or team song or something.


No, the actual act of kneeling only began after he got attention/scrutiny for sitting on the bench.
And my point is that his reasons for doing it is relevant in terms of people's reactions. They keep somehow thinking it's an attack on the armed forces and the flag when it's not.

Or no anthem at all, not on TV anyway. Straight to the game. Most people don't really care for their country anyway, from what I've noticed.

Sitting, kneeling, whatever.
 

xi0

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And my point is that his reasons for doing it is relevant in terms of people's reactions. They keep somehow thinking it's an attack on the armed forces and the flag when it's not.

Or no anthem at all, not on TV anyway. Straight to the game. Most people don't really care for their country anyway, from what I've noticed.

Sitting, kneeling, whatever.
Isn't that just confirmation bias? I don't think everyone who has a negative reaction to him sees what he does as an "attack" on the armed forces or the flag. The fact that he kneels now is evidence that that isn't his point. However, that doesn't mean he's on the "right" side of the argument either (if there even is one, but what use is nuance in a debate in this political environment?
).

Most of the time it isn't even fully aired.
 

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Majority do, then. I've yet to see the other side NOT bring up armed forces or flag when criticizing him. Also, I just saw a picture that suggests fans should boycott NFL on Vets' Day.

Like, instead of using that energy to actually help the vets, they use it to boycott games. Jeezus fuck, no wonder why USA is so slow to progress.
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---
Shooting in Vegas. :( Two dead, and twenty-four injured.
 

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50 dead and 400+ injured. Shooter carried a machine gun in a hotel suite. Not even in Afghanistan they can do this. Well blame it on Mexicans and Muslims. They commit all the crimes.
 

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And ISIS is already taking credit for the attack by saying he was radicalized several months prior. Unsurprising, really.

At this point, I think we should just conclude that ISIS will take credit for basically any large scale violent event no matter where it was, who was involved etc. They are feeling irrelevant every day that passes and feeding them attention by showcasing their pride of the attack and acceptance of it when we have no evidence to conclude it was connected is not good for anyone.

As for the nutbag that did this, this is what I've seen reported as of now:



His name is Stephen Paddock and he was a white male, 63, with no criminal history beyond a citation or any (so far) derogatory information associated to his name/character. He was a trained pilot and hunter, but his brother said he had no marksman or military training. The female person of interest, Marilou Danley (woman in the photo, room mate, currently in the Philippines), is no longer being sought after due to the belief she was not involved. It is being reported the man used her identification to rent the rooms.

The police believe he committed suicide prior to the SWAT team breaching his room with charges.
I have to ask...someone walks into a hotel and no one thought it was suspicious he was carrying large cases capable of holding multiple rifles? I mean, what does security exist for if it doesn't search or look out for such things? :confused:

50 dead and 400+ injured. Shooter carried a machine gun in a hotel suite. Not even in Afghanistan they can do this. Well blame it on Mexicans and Muslims. They commit all the crimes.
May I ask where you got the info that he had a machine gun from? According to police reports, he had hand guns and about seven rifles and despite common belief, they are not one and the same thing. Assault rifles are semi and fully automatic weaponry, one or the other or both, with smaller magazine capabilities (20-50 rounds). Machine guns are guns holding large box magazines (50+ rounds) or firing belt ammunition or other mechanisms that allows numerous rounds to be fired without reloading, aka, they are guns that are always fully automatic.

And no one blames things on "Mexicans and Muslims" unless there is plausible cause pointing to Islamic terrorism (say an ISIS flag or a FB post talking about it) or the violence was committed by an illegal immigrant with a long criminal history that has crossed over our border more than five times. No one did it [assume] here. Most people, the intelligent ones, waited for information instead of jumping to conclusions (thankfully we didn't have some ignorant Republican on the news pointing to a Muslim though).

Also, what do you mean this kind of thing doesn't happen in Afghanistan? It happens a lot, just with different weapons. Why, just today people were killed in the Helmand province due to erroneous air raids while they were trying to push back against the Taliban in their territory. Violence is so common in Afghanistan that they have to tighten security regularly in cities like Kabul ahead of holy holidays (like the tenth day of Muharram) because of radical Jihadists don't like that some Muslims believe in different versions of their religion peacefully. On August 2nd, nearly thirty people were killed at Jawadya Mosque (located in western Herat) by not only a suicide bomber, but a gunman as well. They wounded nearly seventy people.

Senseless, horrific violence is a common occurrence in Afghanistan and I find it strange that you would even make this claim, but perhaps I am misunderstanding your meaning here...?
 

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And ISIS is already taking credit for the attack by saying he was radicalized several months prior. Unsurprising, really.

At this point, I think we should just conclude that ISIS will take credit for basically any large scale violent event no matter where it was, who was involved etc. They are feeling irrelevant every day that passes and feeding them attention by showcasing their pride of the attack and acceptance of it when we have no evidence to conclude it was connected is not good for anyone.

As for the nutbag that did this, this is what I've seen reported as of now:

I have to ask...someone walks into a hotel and no one thought it was suspicious he was carrying large cases capable of holding multiple rifles? I mean, what does security exist for if it doesn't search or look out for such things? :confused:

May I ask where you got the info that he had a machine gun from? According to police reports, he had hand guns and about seven rifles and despite common belief, they are not one and the same thing. Assault rifles are semi and fully automatic weaponry, one or the other or both, with smaller magazine capabilities (20-50 rounds). Machine guns are guns holding large box magazines (50+ rounds) or firing belt ammunition or other mechanisms that allows numerous rounds to be fired without reloading, aka, they are guns that are always fully automatic.

And no one blames things on "Mexicans and Muslims" unless there is plausible cause pointing to Islamic terrorism (say an ISIS flag or a FB post talking about it) or the violence was committed by an illegal immigrant with a long criminal history that has crossed over our border more than five times. No one did it [assume] here. Most people, the intelligent ones, waited for information instead of jumping to conclusions (thankfully we didn't have some ignorant Republican on the news pointing to a Muslim though).

Also, what do you mean this kind of thing doesn't happen in Afghanistan? It happens a lot, just with different weapons. Why, just today people were killed in the Helmand province due to erroneous air raids while they were trying to push back against the Taliban in their territory. Violence is so common in Afghanistan that they have to tighten security regularly in cities like Kabul ahead of holy holidays (like the tenth day of Muharram) because of radical Jihadists don't like that some Muslims believe in different versions of their religion peacefully. On August 2nd, nearly thirty people were killed at Jawadya Mosque (located in western Herat) by not only a suicide bomber, but a gunman as well. They wounded nearly seventy people.

Senseless, horrific violence is a common occurrence in Afghanistan and I find it strange that you would even make this claim, but perhaps I am misunderstanding your meaning here...?
ISIS is claiming? First I heard of that. As far as I have read there are no reports as to his motives quite yet.

I assumed he just walked in to the hotel with large luggage which had his weapons and shouldn't reasonably raise any suspicion. I doubt he had weapon shaped luggage which would have made anyone suspicious, at least such a thing did not occur to me.
 

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ISIS is claiming? First I heard of that. As far as I have read there are no reports as to his motives quite yet.

I assumed he just walked in to the hotel with large luggage which had his weapons and shouldn't reasonably raise any suspicion. I doubt he had weapon shaped luggage which would have made anyone suspicious, at least such a thing did not occur to me.
They announced it on their propaganda outlet, Amaq. They do this all the time though, so I really doubt there was any connection. And you are right, the police, FBI etc have no motives for this. It is just ISIS trying to get out there because they're being stomped to death by Syria, Philippines etc efforts.

It isn't that I was thinking of gun shaped luggage per say, just strange luggage. I mean I'd be really suspicious of anyone walking in multiple cases/luggage long enough or wide enough to carry weaponry, but I guess that's just me.
 

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And once again, all Trump does is offer his condolences as the shooter was white. If it was a Muslim, immigrant, or anyone else he'd be going on a tirade trying to justify his Muslim ban/wall. Republicans are such cancer that they don't even care for US's safety.
 

kkck

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They announced it on their propaganda outlet, Amaq. They do this all the time though, so I really doubt there was any connection. And you are right, the police, FBI etc have no motives for this. It is just ISIS trying to get out there because they're being stomped to death by Syria, Philippines etc efforts.

It isn't that I was thinking of gun shaped luggage per say, just strange luggage. I mean I'd be really suspicious of anyone walking in multiple cases/luggage long enough or wide enough to carry weaponry, but I guess that's just me.
At worst the guy was sort of indoctrinated, same as any other guy that has carried out terrorist attacks in ISIS' name without ever actually being in touch with them.

The luggage you describe is... basically any luggage bigger than carry-on. It's vegas, a popular vacation spot. By any logic there should be more luggage than tourists. How many pieces of luggage would you even need for all those riffles? 2 very large ones? 3 or 4 maybe?
 

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I never thought I'd see the day where a man is condemned for offering his condolences and condemnation for violence, but Trump did it so I should have know some people would do just that for conceived politically or racially motives. It hasn't been more than a few hours and yet it is rampant across social media. Some people. :noworry

At worst the guy was sort of indoctrinated, same as any other guy that has carried out terrorist attacks in ISIS' name without ever actually being in touch with them.

The luggage you describe is... basically any luggage bigger than carry-on. It's vegas, a popular vacation spot. By any logic there should be more luggage than tourists. How many pieces of luggage would you even need for all those riffles? 2 very large ones? 3 or 4 maybe?
If he was indoctrinated, I'd be curious to know if he flew to the Philippines. I've heard it is prime recruitment ground there for ISIS right now, due to Marawi etc.

That's true, that kind of luggage is common in Vegas, but if the guy brought up multiple bags to his room that were large enough to house suspicious items, I'd be worried. Especially with all the horrific shootings, terrorist attacks etc going on. Still, I always thought large hotels had security scan luggage for weapons. I guess I was wrong.

And if he was using something like the AR-18 or some other common assault rifle, he could fit a few of them into one luggage case rather easily, though it would be pretty heavy and awkward looking if he isn't using a hard shell luggage case.

EDIT

Update, slight. It is being reported by investigators that the weapons found were altered to function as fully automatic weapons (with .223 caliber and .308 caliber). Some of the weapons were supposedly purchased in California.

EDIT 2

Reporters are saying that Stephen Paddock's neighbors reported he was gone for "nearly six months" prior to September, when he rented the hotel room.

EDIT 3

People who got onto the man's FB before it was removed are reporting that it was "chalk full" of anti-Trump messages and a message stating he was part of the "anti-Trump army". There is also supposedly a video that was on his FB of an anti-Trump rally where you can see him wearing a pink "p****" hat and a NASA t-shirt, alongside the woman seen in the photo released above.

I will post as soon as more details come out, but right now, take those as you would any rumor please!

EDIT 4

Supposed image of the man at one of the rallies that is being reported as the gunman:



This is the woman to his right, the woman in the photo I posted earlier:

http://archive.is/PJdYG

I'm searching for the video that supposedly has the man in it and a woman walks up to him and says his name. I'll post it as soon as I find it.

EDIT 5

Haven't found the video yet, but ISIS released the "Muslim" name of the man, doubling down that this was because of them. His Islamic name was released as "Abu Abdul Barr al-Amriki".

Also, the gunman's father was on the FBI's most wanted list in 1968 and was diagnosed as a psychopath.

EDIT 6

Found the video, without commentary over it, uploaded via Twitter on a "anti-Trump" account:


I'm trying to locate sources that aren't from biased people, like obviously stupid troll Trumpers etc, hang with me.

EDIT 7

He also worked for a defense contractor in the '80s.

https://www.foxnews.com/us/2017/10/...unman-stashed-weapons-in-room-police-say.html
 
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kkck

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If he was indoctrinated, I'd be curious to know if he flew to the Philippines. I've heard it is prime recruitment ground there for ISIS right now, due to Marawi etc.

That's true, that kind of luggage is common in Vegas, but if the guy brought up multiple bags to his room that were large enough to house suspicious items, I'd be worried. Especially with all the horrific shootings, terrorist attacks etc going on. Still, I always thought large hotels had security scan luggage for weapons. I guess I was wrong.

And if he was using something like the AR-18 or some other common assault rifle, he could fit a few of them into one luggage case rather easily, though it would be pretty heavy and awkward looking if he isn't using a hard shell luggage case.
That could easily be half the tourists in vegas... He was literally a tourists in a hotel. It's not reasonable to be suspicious of something as common as luggage there. What you are suggesting is the equivalent to being worried that your cards when playing blackjack are coated with anthrax.

Honestly, I have never seen or heard of a hotel where they do that. Those things barely work on freaking airports anyways. Having hotels even try this would be astonishingly stupid and useless.
 

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Getting a weapon modified to a fully automatic firearm would be the more difficult task here. Sneaking into the hotel with a stash of weapons shouldn't have been that big of a problem for this guy.

Assault rifles and other similar guns can be easily disassembled and then reassembled once inside a hotel room. And if the guy packaged the broken-down weapon parts right (i.e. in a small rectangular case), the shape of the luggage wouldn't have been noticeable enough for somebody to detect something suspicious. Especially since a lot of people carry odd shaped items in Vegas.

The amount of weapons he had also doesn't surprise me. The guy checked into the hotel on September 28th. So there was plenty of time for him to sneak the weapons in. As long as he didn't carry all of them in a single trip (in which case, I would agree that it would have been unquestionably suspicious), then I think the guy had a pretty good chance going unnoticed.



I have been to Mandalay Bay Casino and Resort in Las Vegas several times before (the place where he stayed at) and I never saw any type of high security scans, screenings, or metal detectors.

They do have a few security guards walking around the lobby area, but it would be unrealistic to expect them to pick out small details in every luggage. Especially during peak hours when the check-in area is overcrowded.

Although, there are plenty of surveillance systems in place around the Las Vegas Strip area...

Law-enforcement and security officials are constantly monitoring the area secretly through hidden cameras and digital screens, but I heard that their precautionary measures are mostly focused on countering "terrorist attacks".

Still, those can only go so far and won't be able to prevent everything.



That said, I saw nothing wrong with Trump giving his condolences. Any President would do that publicly.

And personally, I couldn't care less if he was a foreign or home-grown terrorist. Just like gang members, criminals like that have no place in the US.
 

Styx

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I found a NASA document mentioning him:

https://www.jsc.nasa.gov/history/roundups/issues/80-06-27.pdf

Also, here's the FBI's Most Wanted mugshot of the guy's father:


Oh, and one of the countries the woman and Steven supposedly visited was Dubai. And here's an unblurred image of the two:

https://www.ecestaticos.com/imagest...7541bb/imagen-sin-titulo.jpg?mtime=1506955758

EDIT

Reports are that ISIS literature was found in the hotel room. I'll post evidence if it actually shows up.

That could easily be half the tourists in vegas... He was literally a tourists in a hotel. It's not reasonable to be suspicious of something as common as luggage there. What you are suggesting is the equivalent to being worried that your cards when playing blackjack are coated with anthrax.

Honestly, I have never seen or heard of a hotel where they do that. Those things barely work on freaking airports anyways. Having hotels even try this would be astonishingly stupid and useless.
I wouldn't go that far with that comparison. I wouldn't say it isn't unreasonable, in this day and age, to be suspicious of large luggage after so many shootings or bombings. Might be I'm just naturally suspicious due to where I live though..

I've never been in a hotel like that before, so I just assumed that with its status/wuality and its location, it would have stricter security measures.
 
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kkck

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I wouldn't go that far with that comparison. I wouldn't say it isn't unreasonable, in this day and age, to be suspicious of large luggage after so many shootings or bombings. Might be I'm just naturally suspicious due to where I live though..

I've never been in a hotel like that before, so I just assumed that with its status/wuality and its location, it would have stricter security measures.
The unreasonable part would be that security measures in question simply don't work. Just look at airports... They have expensive scanners and security measures and yet they somehow remain laughably ineffective at it. Expecting hotels to have anything like this and be anywhere within the realm of effective at it is nothing short of insane. Of course, part of the issue here is how useless the TSA is however that still wouldn't justify hotels doing this. It would be more of the same idiotic illusion of security without there being any actual increase in security.
 
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