American Politics

M3J

MH Senpai
神のごとし / Kami no Gotoshi / Godlike
Joined
Mar 2, 2009
Messages
48,828
Reaction score
17,292
Gender
Male
Country
Akatsuki
No, it wasn't a ban. It was a resolution condemning antisemitism... which has no actual legal consequences.

"They don't support Omar much, if at all" - yet Pelosi herself has condemned what Trump tweeted and Capitol Police have ratcheted up security for her and her family as a result. Congressman Nadler from NY has also come out in support of her. I think you're probably mixing this latest thing up with her comments about AIPAC and Israel, which a lot of Democrats didn't support her on.

Personally, I think claims of antisemitism are used far too readily in response to criticism of Israel. It's a touchy subject for a lot of people, so the response isn't surprising.
it does if someone criticizes Israel (which is why they came up with that), as people think anti-Zionism is anti-Semitism.

I could be.

I do wonder though. Is it because of them being pro-Jewish, because Israel pays them off well, or because they're fighting Muslims?
 

xi0

あの術
最終形態 / Saishuu Keitai / Final Form
Administrator
Joined
Feb 3, 2006
Messages
65,177
Reaction score
30,213
Gender
Male
Country
Pyke
it does if someone criticizes Israel (which is why they came up with that), as people think anti-Zionism is anti-Semitism.

I could be.

I do wonder though. Is it because of them being pro-Jewish, because Israel pays them off well, or because they're fighting Muslims?
What does? It's not a ban.

Pays who off well? Plenty of people support Israel without needing to be paid off for it. I support Israel's right to exist, but that doesn't mean I support everything they do, especially when it comes to enforcing said right.
 

M3J

MH Senpai
神のごとし / Kami no Gotoshi / Godlike
Joined
Mar 2, 2009
Messages
48,828
Reaction score
17,292
Gender
Male
Country
Akatsuki
It's still an unnecessary resolution to pass. Where's the same energy when it comes to other races?

Politicians. Didn't Omar call AIPAC out on it?
 

xi0

あの術
最終形態 / Saishuu Keitai / Final Form
Administrator
Joined
Feb 3, 2006
Messages
65,177
Reaction score
30,213
Gender
Male
Country
Pyke
It's still an unnecessary resolution to pass. Where's the same energy when it comes to other races?

Politicians. Didn't Omar call AIPAC out on it?
HR 183 was literally titled "Condemning anti-Semitism as hateful expressions of intolerance that are contradictory to the values and aspirations that define the people of the United States and condemning anti-Muslim discrimination and bigotry against minorities as hateful expressions of intolerance that are contrary to the values and aspirations of the United States. "

Like many lobbies, maybe. But I would expect most of them to agree with what they're being paid for anyway.
 

SharkBait

MH Senpai
伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member
Joined
Aug 23, 2013
Messages
14,069
Reaction score
6,930
Gender
Male
Country
United States

He was exonerated and vindicated, why so much press around keeping the muller report in the public eye. Democrats should focus on other things, like asking why gov't money is being sent to Notre Dame instead of the national crisis on obesity.
 

Newkerzy

Registered User
MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted
Joined
Nov 22, 2008
Messages
7,548
Reaction score
5,406
Age
35
Gender
Male
Country
Indonesia

C'mon Bob...... You could've gone just a liiiiiiiitle bit up further, and you backed out? What are you, a virgin?

(Yes, terrible joke, I know. If anyone would be willing to come up with something better, please, by all means.)
 

xi0

あの術
最終形態 / Saishuu Keitai / Final Form
Administrator
Joined
Feb 3, 2006
Messages
65,177
Reaction score
30,213
Gender
Male
Country
Pyke

He was exonerated and vindicated, why so much press around keeping the muller report in the public eye. Democrats should focus on other things, like asking why gov't money is being sent to Notre Dame instead of the national crisis on obesity.
“The evidence we obtained about the President’s actions and intent presents difficult issues that prevent us from conclusively determining that no criminal conduct occurred”

“Accordingly, while this report does not conclude that the President committed a crime, it also does not exonerate him.”


He was neither exonerated or vindicated. Or do you think he was just because he said so and posted some shitty meme? Volume II of the Mueller Report practically builds the case against him for Felony Obstruction of Justice but doesn't make a prosecutorial judgment in part due to The Office of Legal Counsel holding the position that a President can't be indicted while in office. That means it would be up to Congress to do their job and invoke the articles of impeachment.

Trump and his own son demonstrated a willingness to look for help from Russia in the election, Trump lied about having a business ties to Russia. He lied about anyone in his campaign having contact with Russian agents.... lie after lie after lie. There may be no way to prove criminality there, but it's clear and obvious that this administration was morally and ethically bankrupt from the very start, and can't be trusted with putting US interests first. Why most Republicans sweep this under the rug is a clear demonstration that they have no backbone.
 

SharkBait

MH Senpai
伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member
Joined
Aug 23, 2013
Messages
14,069
Reaction score
6,930
Gender
Male
Country
United States
Trump and his own son demonstrated a willingness to look for help from Russia in the election, Trump lied about having a business ties to Russia. He lied about anyone in his campaign having contact with Russian agents.... lie after lie after lie. There may be no way to prove criminality there, but it's clear and obvious that this administration was morally and ethically bankrupt from the very start, and can't be trusted with putting US interests first. Why most Republicans sweep this under the rug is a clear demonstration that they have no backbone.
Why impeach him or do anything of the like? Nothing about it throws into question if he has or does not have the capability to continue to admirably run or country. Again all of those was about election stuff in the past that ought not hold any weight or bearing on his current state in office.
 

xi0

あの術
最終形態 / Saishuu Keitai / Final Form
Administrator
Joined
Feb 3, 2006
Messages
65,177
Reaction score
30,213
Gender
Male
Country
Pyke
Why impeach him or do anything of the like? Nothing about it throws into question if he has or does not have the capability to continue to admirably run or country. Again all of those was about election stuff in the past that ought not hold any weight or bearing on his current state in office.
Because if a case could be made against a President for committing a felony, maybe even multiple times over, then why should that person hold office?

A very fair argument could be made that Russian attempts at election interference did have a factor in him winning due to their activities on Facebook alone, and due to how close the race was.
 

SharkBait

MH Senpai
伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member
Joined
Aug 23, 2013
Messages
14,069
Reaction score
6,930
Gender
Male
Country
United States
A very fair argument could be made that Russian attempts at election interference did have a factor in him winning due to their activities on Facebook alone, and due to how close the race was.
But how would you prove that Trump told them to do that?
 

xi0

あの術
最終形態 / Saishuu Keitai / Final Form
Administrator
Joined
Feb 3, 2006
Messages
65,177
Reaction score
30,213
Gender
Male
Country
Pyke
But how would you prove that Trump told them to do that?
That wasn't my point? Whether he or his campaign willingly collaborated with them or not, they still benefited from it. He publicly asked Russia to try to get Clinton's emails as well. Maybe I'm nuts, but that should be enough for any American to distance themselves from a candidate or administration regardless of policy.
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---

It was highly unlikely that Mueller investigation was going to result in direct charges for Trump, as we knew the DOJ's position on this far ahead of time, and unlike Kenneth Starr, Mueller worked for the DOJ. It was always going to be up to Congress IMO.
 

kkck

Waifu Slayer
神のごとし / Kami no Gotoshi / Godlike
Joined
Sep 3, 2007
Messages
46,251
Reaction score
24,902
Gender
Hidden
Country
Fire Nation
It was highly unlikely that Mueller investigation was going to result in direct charges for Trump, as we knew the DOJ's position on this far ahead of time, and unlike Kenneth Starr, Mueller worked for the DOJ. It was always going to be up to Congress IMO.
Isn't the issue here that there are two distinct legal processes at work? One would be an indictment over obstruction and the other would be the impeachment procedures. The indictment is a legal procedure over specific crimes, impeachment is an inherently political process. The way I see it congress already has a path to impeachment though it is not necessarily a likely one. And one way or the other once trump is out of office it would be perfectly reasonable for him to be prosecuted for obstruction. And that does not even consider the 12-14 other investigations muller outsourced...
 

xi0

あの術
最終形態 / Saishuu Keitai / Final Form
Administrator
Joined
Feb 3, 2006
Messages
65,177
Reaction score
30,213
Gender
Male
Country
Pyke
Isn't the issue here that there are two distinct legal processes at work? One would be an indictment over obstruction and the other would be the impeachment procedures. The indictment is a legal procedure over specific crimes, impeachment is an inherently political process. The way I see it congress already has a path to impeachment though it is not necessarily a likely one. And one way or the other once trump is out of office it would be perfectly reasonable for him to be prosecuted for obstruction. And that does not even consider the 12-14 other investigations muller outsourced...
Well yeah, but while Impeachment is more of a political process, it's still almost always going to be invoked due to alleged specific criminality of some sort. The difference being the penalty is removal of office, not a prison sentence. I believe there are something like a dozen different instances of obstruction mentioned in the report.

I'm not necessarily saying impeachment is likely either, but that doesn't mean there's no grounds to proceed with it. It could most likely result the same way the Clinton impeachment did, with the Senate acquitting Trump due to numbers. Unless there's some sort of egregious smoking gun and like I said, Republicans actually become the "moral party" for once. The next general election is more likely to happen before anything comes of it, and who knows what the landscape would be then.
 

kkck

Waifu Slayer
神のごとし / Kami no Gotoshi / Godlike
Joined
Sep 3, 2007
Messages
46,251
Reaction score
24,902
Gender
Hidden
Country
Fire Nation
Well yeah, but while Impeachment is more of a political process, it's still almost always going to be invoked due to alleged specific criminality of some sort. The difference being the penalty is removal of office, not a prison sentence. I believe there are something like a dozen different instances of obstruction mentioned in the report.

I'm not necessarily saying impeachment is likely either, but that doesn't mean there's no grounds to proceed with it. It could most likely result the same way the Clinton impeachment did, with the Senate acquitting Trump due to numbers. Unless there's some sort of egregious smoking gun and like I said, Republicans actually become the "moral party" for once. The next general election is more likely to happen before anything comes of it, and who knows what the landscape would be then.
I kinda have to wonder how you impeach based on criminality when you can't indict a president. Imagine the scenario of trump getting impeached over obstruction, THEN he gets indicted but when he goes to trial they determine trump didn't obstruct justice. That, to put it mildly, is an awkward scenario they should avoid. Since impeachment is a political process it would make sense to me if they frame this around fitness for office. While the muller does not prove criminality, it does prove without a shadow of a doubt that the trump administration is morally and ethically bankrupt and they actually at a minimum had willingness too coordinate with russia and also has at a minimum a compelling case for obstruction. Along with so many other lies and just generally gross things.
 

xi0

あの術
最終形態 / Saishuu Keitai / Final Form
Administrator
Joined
Feb 3, 2006
Messages
65,177
Reaction score
30,213
Gender
Male
Country
Pyke
I kinda have to wonder how you impeach based on criminality when you can't indict a president. Imagine the scenario of trump getting impeached over obstruction, THEN he gets indicted but when he goes to trial they determine trump didn't obstruct justice. That, to put it mildly, is an awkward scenario they should avoid. Since impeachment is a political process it would make sense to me if they frame this around fitness for office. While the muller does not prove criminality, it does prove without a shadow of a doubt that the trump administration is morally and ethically bankrupt and they actually at a minimum had willingness too coordinate with russia and also has at a minimum a compelling case for obstruction. Along with so many other lies and just generally gross things.
To the best of my recollection, the impeachment process serves as a trial of sorts, that's why with Clinton he was impeached in the House but "acquitted" in the Senate. Criminality is almost always going to be to be the basis for which impeachment is invoked, of course no judgment made during it is going to result in jail-time, fitness for office is why it's done. Fitness for office due to a President appearing to commit a crime of sorts.
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---

When you bring up the scenario you did, this is usually why charges aren't brought against a president when they leave office. With Nixon, I guess Ford felt it was good enough that he left office in disgrace, which is why he pardoned him. I'm not actually sure if Nixon had been formally charged with a crime, but the action was good enough for courts to drop it, I suppose.
 

kkck

Waifu Slayer
神のごとし / Kami no Gotoshi / Godlike
Joined
Sep 3, 2007
Messages
46,251
Reaction score
24,902
Gender
Hidden
Country
Fire Nation
To the best of my recollection, the impeachment process serves as a trial of sorts, that's why with Clinton he was impeached in the House but "acquitted" in the Senate. Criminality is almost always going to be to be the basis for which impeachment is invoked, of course no judgment made during it is going to result in jail-time, fitness for office is why it's done. Fitness for office due to a President appearing to commit a crime of sorts.
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---

When you bring up the scenario you did, this is usually why charges aren't brought against a president when they leave office. With Nixon, I guess Ford felt it was good enough that he left office in disgrace, which is why he pardoned him. I'm not actually sure if Nixon had been formally charged with a crime, but the action was good enough for courts to drop it, I suppose.
If criminality is indispensable to the process then what I said definitely does not apply at least. I tried reading a bit more on this but as far as I can tell the law is less than clear on what exactly is or not impeachable. Nothing I have read so far suggests criminality is indispensable to the process but it might be the case that that is how lawmakers handle the issue since, well, they have freedom to choose how they handle it.

I read a bit on nixon but I am also not too clear yet on what happened. He was never formally charged. He was then pardoned after resigning. But he could have been tried for some crimes which weren't covered by the pardon in columbia or something. And he wasn't because... luck? I also found something about pardons by their nature imply guilt on the receivers end.
 

xi0

あの術
最終形態 / Saishuu Keitai / Final Form
Administrator
Joined
Feb 3, 2006
Messages
65,177
Reaction score
30,213
Gender
Male
Country
Pyke
If criminality is indispensable to the process then what I said definitely does not apply at least. I tried reading a bit more on this but as far as I can tell the law is less than clear on what exactly is or not impeachable. Nothing I have read so far suggests criminality is indispensable to the process but it might be the case that that is how lawmakers handle the issue since, well, they have freedom to choose how they handle it.

I read a bit on nixon but I am also not too clear yet on what happened. He was never formally charged. He was then pardoned after resigning. But he could have been tried for some crimes which weren't covered by the pardon in columbia or something. And he wasn't because... luck? I also found something about pardons by their nature imply guilt on the receivers end.
Hmm, the impeachment process doesn't follow normal legal procedure. Congress does it's own investigation if needed and votes on different articles of impeachment. In Clinton's case, 4 were brought against him, but 2 of them of them failed to pass the vote. Then it goes to the Senate where the Chief Justice presides over a "trial" with different Senators acting as prosecutors. Of course there are reasons other than criminality to impeach a president, but thus far that hasn't been relevant in history. Plus, the President's own cabinet can replace a sitting president in those cases if need be.

Ford pardoned Nixon out of mercy. It still pissed people off due to him being able to skirt the law, but many people were also sick of the years of Watergate. The guy left office in disgrace, and while the pardon only covered any Federal crimes, the crimes in question happened in DC, which isn't a state. If Nixon had committed a crime anywhere else in the country he could have very easily done jail time.
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---

Barr shows he's truly a stooge... imagine my shock. Well, tomorrow should be interesting.
 

SharkBait

MH Senpai
伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member
Joined
Aug 23, 2013
Messages
14,069
Reaction score
6,930
Gender
Male
Country
United States
Thankfully the hearing finally got back to the real questions. Hilary needs to address those emails.
 

xi0

あの術
最終形態 / Saishuu Keitai / Final Form
Administrator
Joined
Feb 3, 2006
Messages
65,177
Reaction score
30,213
Gender
Male
Country
Pyke
Ah, yes. That really needs to be addressed at a hearing intended to provide insight on Barr's treatment of the Mueller Report. Totally. How many more years will it take Republicans to stop going all "BUTTERY MALES" at any mention of the investigation of Trump?

Lindsey Graham is a hypocritical stooge. Just pull up any clip of him during the Clinton years and you'll see it. He has no backbone, cuddling up to Trump and his stooges as soon as his "friend" John McCain passed away. And not a peep from him regarding the insults thrown his way.


@SharkBait you know you supported Hillary right?
 

SharkBait

MH Senpai
伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member
Joined
Aug 23, 2013
Messages
14,069
Reaction score
6,930
Gender
Male
Country
United States
@SharkBait you know you supported Hillary right?
I voted only cause she was best of the choices and I had reservations about her in regards to Benghazi and these emails.
 
Top