American Politics

[hokageji]

"Bernie Bros" aren't a thing though. That was my point in putting it in quotes. It's derisive slang weaponized against people who refused to support someone like Hillary Clinton and were labeled as being no different from the alt-right as a result.

Calling those supporters as alt-right is just ludicrous....

Most Sanders Supporters are going to vote for Biden, that's just how the two party system works. Hillary Clinton didn't lose to Trump because Bernie voters refused to vote for her, she lost because she was a subpar candidate who couldn't contend with Trump's unconventional style. I think Biden would fare better under normal circumstances, but some days he even struggles to complete a sentence. The average voter isn't going to care about actual substance, they're going to see a frail, older man who is losing his marbles. The fact that the DNC are okay with that is akin to them festooning their own coffin, so being hostile towards those who know it's wrong and aren't afraid to say it is pretty hilarious.

Lets see... I wasn't born in the US, so honestly, i havent seen enough elections to be judging so you are probably right... If Sanders supporters do vote for Biden, thats a good thing. It did affect Hillary's campaign though.

Reform has started? It's not going to get stronger if policy is consistently blocked. Progressives have no backing within the existing power structure. They're expected to acquiesce to these skeletons who do nothing but mortgage the future of the younger generations just so they can keep getting elected. They'd be better off appealing to the actual left instead of moderates who consistently vote against their best interests all for the sake of "getting things done". And even Democrats with the best intentions are pushovers. There are certain things no American should have to ever compromise on, and they've been doing it for decades.

Thats where Biden has a chance. He has a better track record of bipartisanship. I think progressive movement is gaining, but its at a much slower pace that ideal. Things that cannot be compromised i can list of are mostly social though. Healthcare will be a very hard push because of lobbying.. I also dont see universities getting free. International students already pay 2x the fees, and complete free education would mean increasing the quota for international students much higher.

Heck, anyone against Trump is better than Trump. I think Americans are starting to spit out the orange kool-aid. I don’t know why Americans thought Hilary was “subpar”. She had the most political experience and her policies weren’t radical making her a stable choice. From my understanding, they didn’t want another politician who was corrupt but Trump has proven to be the same. . I wonder how she would have handled the virus.

That surprises me as well. Hillary has had excellent approval ratings in any job she's done, but not the same before she applies for it. While she contested in 2008, they said she didn't cater to the woman enough or didnt play the woman card.. and for the 2016 elections, she was accused of playing it too much.....

On a lighter and a non-serious note here's an observation a lot of people outside the US have about Americans, they love personalities, and hating those who are boring.
case in point:
Bush , Clinton - Clinton, way more interesting
Bush, Al Gore - Bush slightly less boring...
Bush, Kerry - Bush, Kerry was super boring, but also harder to beat an incumbent president
Obama, McCain - Obama
Obama, Romney - Clearly Obama again
Trump, Hillary - Trump clearly less boring..

I know this probably holds no base, and looked at from totally a different angle on how the world sees american's choices. lets see how entertaining Biden is..

 

[kkck]

Heck, anyone against Trump is better than Trump. I think Americans are starting to spit out the orange kool-aid. I don’t know why Americans thought Hilary was “subpar”. She had the most political experience and her policies weren’t radical making her a stable choice. From my understanding, they didn’t want another politician who was corrupt but Trump has proven to be the same. . I wonder how she would have handled the virus.

Because hillary IS comically corrupt and a corporate hack. Of course, next to trump she is a saint but by any sane metric hillary should be unelectable. And not for made up nonsense like bhengazi or other conspiracy theory. The mere existence of her foundation, which works on donations from wherever, should make her unelectable even under the assumption that it is working flawlessly and with no corruption whatsoever. The email thing should have made her unelectable twice over (even if what she did wasn't a crime) but she was up against trump... And a republican party which has no scruples whatsoever. Unfortunately when it comes to US politics the bar was shamefully low since a few decades back... and then came trump and threw it off a cliff.

 

[xi0]

Lets see... I wasn't born in the US, so honestly, i havent seen enough elections to be judging so you are probably right... If Sanders supporters do vote for Biden, thats a good thing. It did affect Hillary's campaign though.

No one is entitled to votes, they have to earn them. This is the precise problem with partisanship in general. Hillary did nothing to appeal to Bernie voters, in fact she insulted them. Just because republican voters fall in line like lemmings doesn't mean that's how the political system should work.

Thats where Biden has a chance. He has a better track record of bipartisanship. I think progressive movement is gaining, but its at a much slower pace that ideal. Things that cannot be compromised i can list of are mostly social though. Healthcare will be a very hard push because of lobbying.. I also dont see universities getting free. International students already pay 2x the fees, and complete free education would mean increasing the quota for international students much higher.

Sadly, it's hard for me to see simple bipartisanship as the prescription this country needs to actually improve the lives of the average person. You're never going to convince Mitch McConnell that he has a moral obligation to make healthcare free for all citizens. The status quo is shit, and the majority of elected officials don't give a shit.

 

[M3J]

Heck, anyone against Trump is better than Trump. I think Americans are starting to spit out the orange kool-aid. I don’t know why Americans thought Hilary was “subpar”. She had the most political experience and her policies weren’t radical making her a stable choice. From my understanding, they didn’t want another politician who was corrupt but Trump has proven to be the same. . I wonder how she would have handled the virus.

Hillary is a great politician no doubt, but most Americans see her as a white feminist/not really a feminist and a corrupt politician who'd uphold the status quo. She did not campaign well and still acts entitled to the presidency, so the youth weren't really motivated to vote at all. It says just how bad Hillary is if she lost to TRUMP, even though she won the popular vote.

Trump by majority of his supporters is still isn't seen as a corrupt person. He and Hillary are in the same boat, but I think Hillary isn't corrupt enough to hurt people. She'd definitely have handled a lot of things better, but I guess we'll never know.

But given how she's been attacking Bernie for a while, and how she and her supporters refuse to put any accountability of her loss on HER, she can go fuck herself.

 

[xi0]

I mean, Hillary isn't even running and never even publicly endorsed anyone, said she wouldn't be doing it and encouraged people to vote for the best candidate.... except she STILL went out of her way to talk shit about Sanders all of these years later during the primaries in order to undermine his campaign when he was at the height of his momentum.

 

[Ramen]

What can we agree on? That the US is screwed either way. Both Biden and Trump are idiots and it's a lose-lose situation.

 

[M3J]

You lose less with Biden as compared to Trump, though.

Also, Hillary proved she really is trash. I'd have definitely voted against her had her opposition not been a hateful, lying bigot.

 

[kkck]

Bipartisanship is broken in the US. As far as I remember, but I might be missing something, the only things both parties agree on are raising military budgets and spying on citizens. And democrats NEVER get anything out of making concessions with republicans. At least not in the past.... 15 years or so?

 

[hokageji]

Biden has a better record on that, but of course, he's also compromising a lot more....

 

[M3J]

Has bipartisanship ever existed?

 

[Crescent Jinx]

Bush , Clinton - Clinton, way more interesting
Bush, Al Gore - Bush slightly less boring...
Bush, Kerry - Bush, Kerry was super boring, but also harder to beat an incumbent president
Obama, McCain - Obama
Obama, Romney - Clearly Obama again
Trump, Hillary - Trump clearly less boring..

Ronald Reagan was a movie star.

 

[M3J]

is it me or does it look like republican presidents who haven't been politicians do horrible jobs? But then again, I'm going by Reagan, Trump, and possibly Ulysses Grant, as he used to be an army person.

 

[hokageji]

Ronald Reagan was a movie star.

Yes, i am aware, and amongst the best personalities to be a president.. and if you are a conservative, best amongst policies as well... Again, he won both elections convincingly.. so adds to my point.

--- Double Post Merged, Apr 13, 2020, Original Post Date: Apr 13, 2020 ---

is it me or does it look like republican presidents who haven't been politicians do horrible jobs? But then again, I'm going by Reagan, Trump, and possibly Ulysses Grant, as he used to be an army person.

From a liberal's perspective, Reagan was terrible... from a conservative's perspective, he was a god.....
But i agree with you, specially on international policies and decisions made.

 

[M3J]

Conservatives often are bigots who don't know how to think individually, so of course he was a god to them. Dude was an arch conservative in an industry that had many conservatives.

 

[Ramen]

Conservatives think all Con presidents are gods.

Lmao they think Nixon is Jesus lol.

 

[Reebi]

She'd definitely have handled a lot of things better, but I guess we'll never know.

I read an interesting article stating a correlation between women leaders with less Covid-19 cases. (https://www.forbes.com/sites/avivah...avirus-reponses-have-in-common-women-leaders/). Here in Canada, while our Prime Minister is male, our Minister of Health, Lead Doctor and Deputy Prime Minister are women and we see more of them talking to us about the situation (Toronto's lead doctor, another woman, was on almost everyday and is a mini celebrity). While I don't think having a uterus means better preparation for the virus, it proves there is no need for sexism in politics and making decisions based on facts can help solve any situation.

 

[Ramen]

proves there is no need for sexism in politics

The-alt right would disagree.

 

[M3J]

I read an interesting article stating a correlation between women leaders with less Covid-19 cases. (https://www.forbes.com/sites/avivah...avirus-reponses-have-in-common-women-leaders/). Here in Canada, while our Prime Minister is male, our Minister of Health, Lead Doctor and Deputy Prime Minister are women and we see more of them talking to us about the situation (Toronto's lead doctor, another woman, was on almost everyday and is a mini celebrity). While I don't think having a uterus means better preparation for the virus, it proves there is no need for sexism in politics and making decisions based on facts can help solve any situation.

Figured that was kinda obvious if you weren't a sexist, that women are better at leading and solving issues. I'm not saying uterus is why, but women are often more levelheaded and empathetic, no? Men often say otherwise because they either hate women or have no respect whatsoever.

Further confirms that Hillary definitely is a better choice over Trump, even if she's almost as bad.

 

[Reebi]

The-alt right would disagree.

Well, they think this virus is fake news and the number of cases in the USA is the highest. There are many proverbs around the world to describe fools and they can pick one.

Figured that was kinda obvious if you weren't a sexist, that women are better at leading and solving issues. I'm not saying uterus is why, but women are often more levelheaded and empathetic, no? Men often say otherwise because they either hate women or have no respect whatsoever.

Further confirms that Hillary definitely is a better choice over Trump, even if she's almost as bad.

My theory is because these politicians were voted based on their ability to handle situations and not because they are women. When it comes to politics, women represent a small fraction so when one gets elected as leader, she must have done something right.

 

[M3J]

In USA though, that's the opposite, it seems. Hillary was clearly better than Trump, but she still ultimately lost. Warren was better than Biden and most other Democratic candidates but she still lost.

But I think our theories align? These women were voted in because they're good at their jobs.